Eberron "backstory" versus "continuity" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron "backstory" versus "continuity" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Radazim
01-25-05, 03:48 PM One thing that annoys me, and I admit it's a personal shortcoming, is when "official" information about a setting is released that conflicts with my campaigns.

The Eberron campaign begins officially in 998 YK. If I had my way, all Eberron supplements would flesh out the setting as of 998 YK, but leave anything post-998 to the DM.

Races of Eberron, Five Nations, and Explorer's Handbook are all due out in 2005. Those titles seem more likely to fill in the backstory, so I'm not particularly worried about them - in fact I look forward to them.

However, the Eberron adventure trilogy develops certain plots - although they're admittedly not exactly world-shaking. I feel compelled to either incorporate them or at least ensure that my campaign doesn't conflict with them. Not a big deal, but is it a slippery slope?

There are four Eberron novels coming out in 2005. I think my biggest concern is that the books will make "big" changes to the game world. What if I create an elaborate plot about Merrix d'Cannith, but he is killed off in one of the books? I realize that it's my campaign and I can do what I want with it, but there's something "wrong" to me about blatant continuity problems.

(Contrast this with the older Conan books where the stories were mostly standalone and didn't make big changes to the game world. Sort of like my old high school D&D campaigns - no real game world, just ... "You're traveling across the countryside when you come across an overgrown cemetery and a large, crumbling tower. A thin tendril of smoke streams up from the roof, and a soft glow emanates from a window in the top floor....")

Another example is D&D Online, which is being developed by Turbine but with input from WotC. It takes place in Xen'drik. Will the Xen'drik map that comes out of D&DO become "canon" for Eberron? Will Turbine and WotC work together to maintain D&DO and Eberron continuity? Will this hose my campaign?

To end this rambling with some questions: How much will upcoming novels, adventures, accessories, and D&DO define post-998 Eberron continuity? Will world-changing events, for example the re-emergence of the Mark of Death, take place in the novels?

Or, will the novels be more about dire plans thwarted and which leave the balance of power unperturbed and the population blissfully unaware of the doom that was narrowly averted?
Streamweaver
01-25-05, 03:55 PM One thing that annoys me, and I admit it's a personal shortcoming, is when "official" information about a setting is released that conflicts with my campaigns.

This is definitly something that is difficult to deal with as a DM. I don't really understand the mentality of waiting for every dragonshard and expansion to further define the world for people. All those ongoing updates are great but you can't build your game around them or you would be in constant hiatus waiting for the next update.

Anything that comes out in the future is nice as a consideration but I can't escape the fact that I've got a game to run every week and I just move foward hoping I've either understood the material enough to expand on it correctly or am creative enough to fill the gaps myself. It's worked pretty well for me for the last two decades of gaming anyway. :)
Radazim
01-25-05, 05:42 PM I don't really understand the mentality of waiting for every dragonshard and expansion to further define the world for people. All those ongoing updates are great but you can't build your game around them or you would be in constant hiatus waiting for the next update.

Heh. I don't really understand it either, even though I suffer from it. :)

I understand the practical limitations that Keith, the other Eberron authors, and WotC face in writing, editing, and publishing (online or print) everything they want about the Eberron setting. It can't all be done instantaneously, and it can't all be released simultaneously. So, we wait.

I guess I'd like to have realistic expectations about the extent to which new Eberron material will be pre-998 "backstory" or post-998 "continuity."
DJDave
01-26-05, 03:28 AM Well I'm wary of DDO so I am not planning on doing much in Xendrik until I have "been" there myself later in the year as I am sure that a lot will be covered. Instead I'm planning on visiting Sarlona as the second major continent of exploration once I fancy a break from Khorvaire.
Shas'O
01-26-05, 12:05 PM I think I saw in the ask baker thread about how the novels would change eberron. I think they are taken as 'what if' stories, not changing the 'metastory'.
motorfirebox
01-26-05, 12:13 PM er, wait. wouldn't 'filling in the backstory' cause even more problems for DMs? i mean, doing that is basically retconning--every time you put out a new book, there are new details revealed that could have deeply-seated conflicts with a given DM's campaign. and not just the part of the campaign that the DM is currently running, but events in his campaign that have already happened. you'd potentially have to rework your entire campaign, past events especially, every time a new sourcebook came out.
Naudachu
01-26-05, 01:14 PM We're witnessing the birth of a new world, much like it must have been in the beginning of D&D. Its exciting and frustrating. I suffer from the same problem of gathering enough of the feel of the world to be comfortable enough to make it my own.

I think the foundation is being laid with Sharn and the first run of adventures. Anything new will be colored by this beginning and eventually settle into a groove, the "feel" of Eberron.

Usually I shy away from the big players in a world, carving out an area I can freely muck with. But with Eberron the major NPCs are thrust to center stage. And its a more tight-knit modern society where there are far reaching effects and you hear about it on page one of the paper. Its different from the medieval world where communication is still slow and events in another country could run their course without ever affecting you.

Basically, I'm waiting for the dust to settle and muddling through until then. I've already stuck myself with the problem of getting my PCs from Karrnath to Sharn, because the sourcebook came out and I can't resist.
Golbez57
01-26-05, 01:25 PM Yes, I'm sure "big" events will take place in the Eberron books. They wouldn't be stories worth telling if they were only about a pack of soon-to-be-forgotten adventurers in the areas of Eberron that are of so little importance that nothing has been written about them already, right?

But as you said, it's personal preference as to whether or not those events take place in your Eberron campaign world and, if so, what effects they have on your world.

The characters in our campaign occupy a recently-rebuilt keep in the small section of mountains south of Vathirond. If a daelkyr is freed from its bonds emerges from them in the course of one of the books and is defeated by a force of soldiers from Thrane and some of their once-hated adversaries from Vathirond, it doesn't at all mean that our campaign is hosed. I can choose to dramatically introduce this scenario into our game world, or ignore it--whatever suits the needs of our campaign.

The heroes have also traveled to the Frostfell. If the Explorer's Handbook states that only one expedition has ever gone there and returned, or that the only humanoids native to the area are dwarves, that doesn't necessarily mean that *poof* the neanderthal tribe the players already encountered there were some sophisticated illusion.

Now, if Breland is described as mounting an offensive against Darguun in YK 999 in The Five Nations, and the characters have already undergone a lengthy adventure to ensure peacable relations between those two countries, I'd have some things to sort out. Or, if one of them was the son of Haruuk, and Haruuk is assasinated by goblinoid usurpers in one of the books, I'd also likely have to address that somehow.

In the end, though, the ECS is meant as a sourcebook, and all Eberron materials are referred to as supplements. They are not campaign bibles or serialized segments to be included in each and every Eberron campaign. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to invite these things into your sandbox, based on whether or not they'll help you continue the story you've already started with your players.

Good gaming to you!
Korhal_IV
01-26-05, 01:50 PM Keith Baker (IIRC) is trying very hard to avoid conflicting with campaigns - hence, a whole lot of stuff is left vague, DMs are given more power, etc.

I don't think you need to worry about the novels - if they keep with the "low-level" stuff, (and they will!) you can choose to just entirely ignore the novel. I don't have any inside info on City of Towers, but I think it's a fair bet that whatever happens in it, it won't be big enough to disrupt my PCs' war against Daask - such-and-such a councilor might be busy, or such-and-such a tower might crumble, but life goes on. It won't be like FR where authors launch epic wars and things like the Time of Troubles - that's cool if you feel like going with the flow, but Eberron, being the alternative, probably isn't going to go for that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Radazim 01-25-05, 03:48 PM	One thing that annoys me, and I admit it's a personal shortcoming, is when "official" information about a setting is released that conflicts with my campaigns. The Eberron campaign begins officially in 998 YK. If I had my way, all Eberron supplements would flesh out the setting as of 998 YK, but leave anything post-998 to the DM. Races of Eberron, Five Nations, and Explorer's Handbook are all due out in 2005. Those titles seem more likely to fill in the backstory, so I'm not particularly worried about them - in fact I look forward to them. However, the Eberron adventure trilogy develops certain plots - although they're admittedly not exactly world-shaking. I feel compelled to either incorporate them or at least ensure that my campaign doesn't conflict with them. Not a big deal, but is it a slippery slope? There are four Eberron novels coming out in 2005. I think my biggest concern is that the books will make "big" changes to the game world. What if I create an elaborate plot about Merrix d'Cannith, but he is killed off in one of the books? I realize that it's my campaign and I can do what I want with it, but there's something "wrong" to me about blatant continuity problems. (Contrast this with the older Conan books where the stories were mostly standalone and didn't make big changes to the game world. Sort of like my old high school D&D campaigns - no real game world, just ... "You're traveling across the countryside when you come across an overgrown cemetery and a large, crumbling tower. A thin tendril of smoke streams up from the roof, and a soft glow emanates from a window in the top floor....") Another example is D&D Online, which is being developed by Turbine but with input from WotC. It takes place in Xen'drik. Will the Xen'drik map that comes out of D&DO become "canon" for Eberron? Will Turbine and WotC work together to maintain D&DO and Eberron continuity? Will this hose my campaign? To end this rambling with some questions: How much will upcoming novels, adventures, accessories, and D&DO define post-998 Eberron continuity? Will world-changing events, for example the re-emergence of the Mark of Death, take place in the novels? Or, will the novels be more about dire plans thwarted and which leave the balance of power unperturbed and the population blissfully unaware of the doom that was narrowly averted?
Streamweaver 01-25-05, 03:55 PM	One thing that annoys me, and I admit it's a personal shortcoming, is when "official" information about a setting is released that conflicts with my campaigns. This is definitly something that is difficult to deal with as a DM. I don't really understand the mentality of waiting for every dragonshard and expansion to further define the world for people. All those ongoing updates are great but you can't build your game around them or you would be in constant hiatus waiting for the next update. Anything that comes out in the future is nice as a consideration but I can't escape the fact that I've got a game to run every week and I just move foward hoping I've either understood the material enough to expand on it correctly or am creative enough to fill the gaps myself. It's worked pretty well for me for the last two decades of gaming anyway. :)
Radazim 01-25-05, 05:42 PM	I don't really understand the mentality of waiting for every dragonshard and expansion to further define the world for people. All those ongoing updates are great but you can't build your game around them or you would be in constant hiatus waiting for the next update. Heh. I don't really understand it either, even though I suffer from it. :) I understand the practical limitations that Keith, the other Eberron authors, and WotC face in writing, editing, and publishing (online or print) everything they want about the Eberron setting. It can't all be done instantaneously, and it can't all be released simultaneously. So, we wait. I guess I'd like to have realistic expectations about the extent to which new Eberron material will be pre-998 "backstory" or post-998 "continuity."
DJDave 01-26-05, 03:28 AM	Well I'm wary of DDO so I am not planning on doing much in Xendrik until I have "been" there myself later in the year as I am sure that a lot will be covered. Instead I'm planning on visiting Sarlona as the second major continent of exploration once I fancy a break from Khorvaire.
Shas'O 01-26-05, 12:05 PM	I think I saw in the ask baker thread about how the novels would change eberron. I think they are taken as 'what if' stories, not changing the 'metastory'.
motorfirebox 01-26-05, 12:13 PM	er, wait. wouldn't 'filling in the backstory' cause even more problems for DMs? i mean, doing that is basically retconning--every time you put out a new book, there are new details revealed that could have deeply-seated conflicts with a given DM's campaign. and not just the part of the campaign that the DM is currently running, but events in his campaign that have already happened. you'd potentially have to rework your entire campaign, past events especially, every time a new sourcebook came out.
Naudachu 01-26-05, 01:14 PM	We're witnessing the birth of a new world, much like it must have been in the beginning of D&D. Its exciting and frustrating. I suffer from the same problem of gathering enough of the feel of the world to be comfortable enough to make it my own. I think the foundation is being laid with Sharn and the first run of adventures. Anything new will be colored by this beginning and eventually settle into a groove, the "feel" of Eberron. Usually I shy away from the big players in a world, carving out an area I can freely muck with. But with Eberron the major NPCs are thrust to center stage. And its a more tight-knit modern society where there are far reaching effects and you hear about it on page one of the paper. Its different from the medieval world where communication is still slow and events in another country could run their course without ever affecting you. Basically, I'm waiting for the dust to settle and muddling through until then. I've already stuck myself with the problem of getting my PCs from Karrnath to Sharn, because the sourcebook came out and I can't resist.
Golbez57 01-26-05, 01:25 PM	Yes, I'm sure "big" events will take place in the Eberron books. They wouldn't be stories worth telling if they were only about a pack of soon-to-be-forgotten adventurers in the areas of Eberron that are of so little importance that nothing has been written about them already, right? But as you said, it's personal preference as to whether or not those events take place in your Eberron campaign world and, if so, what effects they have on your world. The characters in our campaign occupy a recently-rebuilt keep in the small section of mountains south of Vathirond. If a daelkyr is freed from its bonds emerges from them in the course of one of the books and is defeated by a force of soldiers from Thrane and some of their once-hated adversaries from Vathirond, it doesn't at all mean that our campaign is hosed. I can choose to dramatically introduce this scenario into our game world, or ignore it--whatever suits the needs of our campaign. The heroes have also traveled to the Frostfell. If the Explorer's Handbook states that only one expedition has ever gone there and returned, or that the only humanoids native to the area are dwarves, that doesn't necessarily mean that poof the neanderthal tribe the players already encountered there were some sophisticated illusion. Now, if Breland is described as mounting an offensive against Darguun in YK 999 in The Five Nations, and the characters have already undergone a lengthy adventure to ensure peacable relations between those two countries, I'd have some things to sort out. Or, if one of them was the son of Haruuk, and Haruuk is assasinated by goblinoid usurpers in one of the books, I'd also likely have to address that somehow. In the end, though, the ECS is meant as a sourcebook, and all Eberron materials are referred to as supplements. They are not campaign bibles or serialized segments to be included in each and every Eberron campaign. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to invite these things into your sandbox, based on whether or not they'll help you continue the story you've already started with your players. Good gaming to you!
Korhal_IV 01-26-05, 01:50 PM	Keith Baker (IIRC) is trying very hard to avoid conflicting with campaigns - hence, a whole lot of stuff is left vague, DMs are given more power, etc. I don't think you need to worry about the novels - if they keep with the "low-level" stuff, (and they will!) you can choose to just entirely ignore the novel. I don't have any inside info on City of Towers, but I think it's a fair bet that whatever happens in it, it won't be big enough to disrupt my PCs' war against Daask - such-and-such a councilor might be busy, or such-and-such a tower might crumble, but life goes on. It won't be like FR where authors launch epic wars and things like the Time of Troubles - that's cool if you feel like going with the flow, but Eberron, being the alternative, probably isn't going to go for that.