Eberron elements in Greyhawk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron elements in Greyhawk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Amaril
09-15-04, 09:34 PM I was reading the Eberron vs. FR (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=301814) thread and noticed that the conversation went straight from a discussion of WotC's future support for the FRCS to a discussion of which one is preferred by the players. I noticed that there were a few shunning opinions of Greyhawk. What is so unlikeable about Greyhawk?

Additionally, I have a hard time understanding why there is so much emphasis of film noir, swashbuckling, and other elements of various film genres in Eberron (see the Uncon thread "Eberron at the Movies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299282)") when these same elements and atmospheres can be placed in Greyhawk just as easily. Greyhawk has just recently come out of its own world war and has dozens of ancient ruins and treacherous regions that can be explored. I would like to know if other players have been already placing these film elements into their non-Eberron campaigns and adventures.

I once made a sort of anti-hero who, during difficult times, might slip into self doubt or find himself internally conflicted between self-preservation and committment to the quest at hand. His personal past experiences would surface in his mind and interfere with decisions about party relationships, values, beliefs, etc that would normally have been black and white.

I guess what I am really asking is what characterstics does Eberron have that allow for these film elements to be emphasized as such that they are unique to the ECS?

Note: please do not make this a Eberron vs. Greyhawk war. I am genuinely seeking well expressed and thought out responses.

Edit: I changed the subject as some forum members in the Gryhawk forums felt that this thread is a trolling attempt. I had based the subject on the Eberron vs. FR thread, and had posted a thread in the Greyhawk forums inviting Greyhawk players to participate in this thread. I don't want this thread to become a flame war of any kind, but some of the Greyhawk members felt that's all it was asking to be. Apparently asking for constructive opinions means trolling to some. Anyway, enough ranting. I look forward to more positive ideas from other members. So far the responses in this thread have been very civil and very insightful. Thank you all!
Hellcow
09-15-04, 10:07 PM I guess what I am really asking is what characterstics does Eberron have that allow for these film elements to be emphasized as such that they are unique to the ECS?
To me, it all comes down to another movie, Spinal Tap: "This one goes to eleven."

In Spinal Tap, Nigel has his special amp that can be turned up to eleven when he needs that extra push. When the interviewer asks if "11" is really any louder than "10" on an amp that is only rated from 1-10, Nigel doesn't have a good answer, other than "...this one goes to eleven."

Back in the hype phase, many people were saying that Eberron was D&D "dialed to 11". In that, they meant that it was somehow louder, or more energetic. To me the point is that 11 isn't actually louder than 10; it's simply a matter of perspective.

Do pulp or noir plotlines have a place in Greyhawk? Absolutely. Are these ideas somehow unique to Eberron? Certainly not. These storylines have been a part of fantasy all the way back to Conan and beyond. The point is that Eberron calls attention to these themes immediately and points them out to the DM, says "in case you weren't thinking about it, there's an extra number on the dial." It's not trying to change D&D; the whole goal is for it to feel like D&D, and not a bizarre and inaccessible world. So it's quite possible that any idea you might have for an Eberron adventure might work just as well in Greyhawk, or that you personally may already have been running a Greyhawk campaign with the same flavor. Eberron is just trying to make that style of play a key element of the world from the begining.

On a purely mechanical level, you have things like action points, which are specifically designed to let PCs push the limits of the world. And there are a few other things; the relative scarcity of high-level NPC allies makes the PCs a central part of the action, and in my opinions the lack of incarnate gods has a similar effect. And there are all sorts of aspects of the world that tie into giving it a noir feel -- but that's neither here nor there. Can these themes be used in Greyhawk or other settings? I think so. The issue is whether they are encouraged as a focus of the world, or just something that's there when you turn the dial as far as it will go.
Amaril
09-15-04, 10:13 PM Keith, thanks for the genuine response. I'm impressed to have a recieved such an honest response 'straight from the horses mouth.' Thanks for taking the time. :)

PS - The Spinal Tap analogy is perfect!
Amaril
09-15-04, 10:26 PM Additionally, I'm glad to hear that you and I share similar perspectives of Eberron's reference to film elements. I didn't know if I was going crazy in that Eberron only brings those elements to the DM's attention more than other campaign settings even though other campaign settings might have already allow for those elements.

I'll be honest in admitting that I have yet to pick up the Eberron CS only because I don't really have the time to learn the finer details of an entirely new world when I'm still grasping the details of another. One reason for having interest in Eberron is that it's a fresh clean slate without much 'gaming' history. This reason was actually overshadowed by the idea of having those exciting film elements. I decided to hold off on delving into the campaign and instead realized that I could have those same exciting elements in Greyhawk (especially that post-world war 'mood').

I still plan on eventually getting the Eberron CS, and I'm always digging into the Dragonshard articles on the Eberron Web site.

Thanks again, Keith.
Rajorke
09-16-04, 12:37 AM Back in the hype phase, many people were saying that Eberron was D&D "dialed to 11". In that, they meant that it was somehow louder, or more energetic. To me the point is that 11 isn't actually louder than 10; it's simply a matter of perspective.

sorry to disagree keith but Eberron is Dnd dialed To 13... well 13-1 any way :D
Hellcow
09-16-04, 12:52 AM sorry to disagree keith but Eberron is Dnd dialed To 13... well 13-1 any way :D
Dang it -- you're onto us!
Amaril
09-16-04, 09:20 AM From This is Eberron
Keith Baker: "[Pause] These go to thirteen."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amaril 09-15-04, 09:34 PM	I was reading the Eberron vs. FR (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=301814) thread and noticed that the conversation went straight from a discussion of WotC's future support for the FRCS to a discussion of which one is preferred by the players. I noticed that there were a few shunning opinions of Greyhawk. What is so unlikeable about Greyhawk? Additionally, I have a hard time understanding why there is so much emphasis of film noir, swashbuckling, and other elements of various film genres in Eberron (see the Uncon thread "Eberron at the Movies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299282)") when these same elements and atmospheres can be placed in Greyhawk just as easily. Greyhawk has just recently come out of its own world war and has dozens of ancient ruins and treacherous regions that can be explored. I would like to know if other players have been already placing these film elements into their non-Eberron campaigns and adventures. I once made a sort of anti-hero who, during difficult times, might slip into self doubt or find himself internally conflicted between self-preservation and committment to the quest at hand. His personal past experiences would surface in his mind and interfere with decisions about party relationships, values, beliefs, etc that would normally have been black and white. I guess what I am really asking is what characterstics does Eberron have that allow for these film elements to be emphasized as such that they are unique to the ECS? Note: please do not make this a Eberron vs. Greyhawk war. I am genuinely seeking well expressed and thought out responses. Edit: I changed the subject as some forum members in the Gryhawk forums felt that this thread is a trolling attempt. I had based the subject on the Eberron vs. FR thread, and had posted a thread in the Greyhawk forums inviting Greyhawk players to participate in this thread. I don't want this thread to become a flame war of any kind, but some of the Greyhawk members felt that's all it was asking to be. Apparently asking for constructive opinions means trolling to some. Anyway, enough ranting. I look forward to more positive ideas from other members. So far the responses in this thread have been very civil and very insightful. Thank you all!
Hellcow 09-15-04, 10:07 PM	I guess what I am really asking is what characterstics does Eberron have that allow for these film elements to be emphasized as such that they are unique to the ECS? To me, it all comes down to another movie, Spinal Tap: "This one goes to eleven." In Spinal Tap, Nigel has his special amp that can be turned up to eleven when he needs that extra push. When the interviewer asks if "11" is really any louder than "10" on an amp that is only rated from 1-10, Nigel doesn't have a good answer, other than "...this one goes to eleven." Back in the hype phase, many people were saying that Eberron was D&D "dialed to 11". In that, they meant that it was somehow louder, or more energetic. To me the point is that 11 isn't actually louder than 10; it's simply a matter of perspective. Do pulp or noir plotlines have a place in Greyhawk? Absolutely. Are these ideas somehow unique to Eberron? Certainly not. These storylines have been a part of fantasy all the way back to Conan and beyond. The point is that Eberron calls attention to these themes immediately and points them out to the DM, says "in case you weren't thinking about it, there's an extra number on the dial." It's not trying to change D&D; the whole goal is for it to feel like D&D, and not a bizarre and inaccessible world. So it's quite possible that any idea you might have for an Eberron adventure might work just as well in Greyhawk, or that you personally may already have been running a Greyhawk campaign with the same flavor. Eberron is just trying to make that style of play a key element of the world from the begining. On a purely mechanical level, you have things like action points, which are specifically designed to let PCs push the limits of the world. And there are a few other things; the relative scarcity of high-level NPC allies makes the PCs a central part of the action, and in my opinions the lack of incarnate gods has a similar effect. And there are all sorts of aspects of the world that tie into giving it a noir feel -- but that's neither here nor there. Can these themes be used in Greyhawk or other settings? I think so. The issue is whether they are encouraged as a focus of the world, or just something that's there when you turn the dial as far as it will go.
Amaril 09-15-04, 10:13 PM	Keith, thanks for the genuine response. I'm impressed to have a recieved such an honest response 'straight from the horses mouth.' Thanks for taking the time. :) PS - The Spinal Tap analogy is perfect!
Amaril 09-15-04, 10:26 PM	Additionally, I'm glad to hear that you and I share similar perspectives of Eberron's reference to film elements. I didn't know if I was going crazy in that Eberron only brings those elements to the DM's attention more than other campaign settings even though other campaign settings might have already allow for those elements. I'll be honest in admitting that I have yet to pick up the Eberron CS only because I don't really have the time to learn the finer details of an entirely new world when I'm still grasping the details of another. One reason for having interest in Eberron is that it's a fresh clean slate without much 'gaming' history. This reason was actually overshadowed by the idea of having those exciting film elements. I decided to hold off on delving into the campaign and instead realized that I could have those same exciting elements in Greyhawk (especially that post-world war 'mood'). I still plan on eventually getting the Eberron CS, and I'm always digging into the Dragonshard articles on the Eberron Web site. Thanks again, Keith.
Rajorke 09-16-04, 12:37 AM	Back in the hype phase, many people were saying that Eberron was D&D "dialed to 11". In that, they meant that it was somehow louder, or more energetic. To me the point is that 11 isn't actually louder than 10; it's simply a matter of perspective. sorry to disagree keith but Eberron is Dnd dialed To 13... well 13-1 any way :D
Hellcow 09-16-04, 12:52 AM	sorry to disagree keith but Eberron is Dnd dialed To 13... well 13-1 any way :D Dang it -- you're onto us!
Amaril 09-16-04, 09:20 AM	From This is Eberron Keith Baker: "[Pause] These go to thirteen."