Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mortok 01-02-07, 06:41 PM	In some ways the Eberron setting makes more sense than other D&D settings. One example are the Drows. In the Forgotten Relams they live undeground but have black skin. Why would they have black skin if there is no sun ? They should be pale. But in Eberron they are elves that have been changed magically by merging them with shadows. Please name more examples where Eberron makes more sense. (Or examples where it makes less sense)
From_Khyber 01-02-07, 07:04 PM	In some ways the Eberron setting makes more sense than other D&D settings. One example are the Drows. In the Forgotten Relams they live undeground but have black skin. Why would they have black skin if there is no sun ? They should be pale. But in Eberron they are elves that have been changed magically by merging them with shadows. Please name more examples where Eberron makes more sense. (Or examples where it makes less sense) Well, your example doesn't make very much sense in my ears. What we refer to as "black" (no racial offence intended here), is actually brown (caused by the sun, indeed). The drow are rather pitch black e.i. the sun couldn't have caused their skin color (if anything, it would've merely flavoured it with a certain dusky color-tone, adding to their already darkened skin). Nevertheless, is this a standout Eberronian trait? I'd say no. In a world of elemental-powered vessels, dragonmarked people, and unexplainable devastations (the Mourning), is the fact that a certain race are born black really that illogical? This is fantasy at its best, dude. Some things are best left alone, such as theories of why drow are black. This said, I shall take my leave.
Azar_of_Faerun 01-02-07, 07:14 PM	Exactly about the drow thing, it's good camouflage and it's a racial thing imparted by a god There are certain degrees of reality in my roleplaying I find acceptable, for example (totally unrelated), fans of George Romero's "Dawn of the Dead" say the running zombies in "Dawn of the Dead 04" don't make sense because they run. I say, so what? As long as it makes for a good movie, i'll let the "zombies" be a little "unrealistic" ;)
Mortok 01-02-07, 07:21 PM	Dark skin color is normally necessary to protect humans against the sun. In hot climates people have more pigments in their skin, otherwise skin cancer would be far more likely. In more temperate climates people have far less pigmentation. And if you look at animals living underground all of them have pale skin, because they need no pigmentation to protect them against UV light. Hence it seems odd for Drow to have black skin, since evolution would normally lead to pale skin. But it is only a minor example. But somehow i noticed while reading the Dreaming Dark triology. And yes Eberron is fantasy, but i still got the feeling that the different aspects of D&D were integrated into the setting far better than in other settings. ( They make more sense in a fantasy kind of way.) Another thing would be Hobgoblins. When you read the description in the MM it seems odd that they serve as cannon fodder most of the time. But in Eberron their role fits their description far better. They actually formed an empire, based on a lawful society. Hope the last example makes more sense, without trying to make a fantasy world too realistic.
Azar_of_Faerun 01-02-07, 07:27 PM	You have to understand that the rules of evolution and the like aren't followed to a tee in the settings, i'm all for you cheering the added degree of real world logic, but it by no means is a hindrance on the setting directly (because they've incorporated reasons of the fantastical variety to account for them)
Mortok 01-02-07, 07:34 PM	Admitted the Drow example was a bit over the top. But still the way stereotypes regarding the races (Goblinoids, Orcs or Gnomes) are avoided makes the world seem more realistic to me. (Realistic in a fantasy sense, not in a hard real world kind of way.) Another thing would be the influence magic has on the society. Far more thought went into it than is common for a fantasy setting.
ArcTan 01-02-07, 08:34 PM	Dark skin color is normally necessary to protect humans against the sun. In hot climates people have more pigments in their skin, otherwise skin cancer would be far more likely. In more temperate climates people have far less pigmentation. And if you look at animals living underground all of them have pale skin, because they need no pigmentation to protect them against UV light. Hence it seems odd for Drow to have black skin, since evolution would normally lead to pale skin. You're assuming the drow have lived underground long enough for evolution to have bred out all trace of pigmentation from their gene pool, when in fact they were banished underground sometime in historical time (even if it was thousands of years ago, that's nothing from a biological timescale). Also, what color something is is not *absolutely* determined by the ambient UV light, as though there were no other purpose color served (like, say, sexual selection) or as though there aren't sometimes things that just happen without an evolutionary reason for them (there are plenty -- the point of evolution is that it's *random*).
Manyfist 01-02-07, 08:49 PM	In the Underdark (FR) Magical Radiation is everywhere. So it would make sense that inorder to take out the UV their skin turns completely black. Thats why people of African descent don't get sunburn as quickly as a person with European or Northern Asian descent. Sure if you put some one under enough UV that the skin causes cancer cells, then a person of African descent would get a suburn but at that point its moot point. In Eberron, no magical radiation at all. Drow live in the Dark Jungle, and have been partically bound with the Shadows allowing them protection against the Sun. Both actually makes sense, both are from totally diffrent worlds. If an Eberron Drow had landed in FR and vise versa. Chances are they would be disgusted with everything including other Drow. FR Drow would see Eberron Drow as Savages, and Eberron Drow would see FR Drow as Traitors/Idiots.:D
Altar_Boy 01-02-07, 09:06 PM	In the Underdark (FR) Magical Radiation is everywhere. So it would make sense that inorder to take out the UV their skin turns completely black. Thats why people of African descent don't get sunburn as quickly as a person with European or Northern Asian descent. Sure if you put some one under enough UV that the skin causes cancer cells, then a person of African descent would get a suburn but at that point its moot point. In Eberron, no magical radiation at all. Drow live in the Dark Jungle, and have been partically bound with the Shadows allowing them protection against the Sun. Both actually makes sense, both are from totally diffrent worlds. If an Eberron Drow had landed in FR and vise versa. Chances are they would be disgusted with everything including other Drow. FR Drow would see Eberron Drow as Savages, and Eberron Drow would see FR Drow as Traitors/Idiots.:D Oh for... :nonono: The Drow are the darkest-coloured beings amongst a variety of underground species. Derro, Duergar, Deep Gnomes, Grimlocks, Kuo-toa, and many others are far lighter than Drow and have a more realistic biological response to living in underground environments. Saying Magic made them that way is such a cop-out. Mind you, it's the standard explanation for everything in FR, but there you go. Eberron doesn't give pseudo-scientific explanations for why things are. They're either mysteries, or easily explained.
Lokiyn 01-02-07, 09:13 PM	Drow: Explicity cursed by their god for betrayal, evolution doesn't come into it. Or if you completly disregard the fact of drow history The chemical composition of the skin of drow is such that it absorbs light (being composed of a naturally black chemical) and its reaction to sunlight is to produce a lightening agent that whitens the skin reducing overheating from the sun, and reducing the risk of sunstroke.
From_Khyber 01-02-07, 10:04 PM	*Rubs his forehead, while frowning deeply* :nonono:
Azar_of_Faerun 01-02-07, 10:10 PM	:rolleyes:
mhacdebhandia 01-02-07, 10:13 PM	You know what makes more sense to me in Eberron than in any other setting? The way magic is used.
Lokiyn 01-02-07, 10:31 PM	Exactly, Asking why drow are black is a lot like asking why don't humans have 6 fingers on each hand. And even in eberron magic isn't entirely used to its full potential, however it still has the all pervasive feel that any society with a proper educational level should have with magic.
Charles Phipps 01-02-07, 10:38 PM	Part of why resistance is so firm to the issue is that putting Drow in a tropical environment causes one to make a parallel between them and African peoples. One really doesn't want to do that for a race of purely evil Scorpion worshippers.
sooperspook 01-02-07, 11:54 PM	Enough with the Drow already. Lets get back to the topic at hand. makes more sense to me: 1:The way magic is used. Both relatively low level for the most part yet still very pervasive. 2: Political power is more important that personal power (for the most part) 3: NPCs aren't paragons of their alignment. they can, and do, make descisions based on emotion, bias, or political expediancy. (although they may often regret it later) 4: that intelligent beings , such as goblins, medusas etc, form their own countries with their own political agendas and don't just sit in caves waiting for passers by. (although there are some who do that too).
mikeloop86 01-03-07, 12:25 AM	That the elves, who automatically start out proficient in certain armaments, actually go out and start ****! No foo foo elf pansies in the woods! NO! These elves are a feared force comparable to the riders of Saladin and Genghis Kahn.
Nived 01-03-07, 01:26 AM	I like that sentient creatures are treated like people too. No going out and slaughtering the equivalent of a small town just because they're Goblins, not without major political and judicial reprocussions.
MartM 01-03-07, 04:58 AM	What make make sense... Intelligent & almost immortal dragon not being cave dweller concerned only by their gold...
Charles Phipps 01-03-07, 10:24 AM	What make make sense... Intelligent & almost immortal dragon not being cave dweller concerned only by their gold... Or them staying in a city where they are murdered in long periods of hibernation?
The White Sorcerer 01-03-07, 11:39 AM	One really doesn't want to do that for a race of purely evil Scorpion worshippers. Eberron's drow are as purely evil as elves are purely good.
sciborg2 01-03-07, 02:01 PM	The "lesser" races like gnomes and halflings have made important contributions to civilization. Half-orcs and half-elves fall into that too. Drow have more purpose than playing at house-wars for Lloth. Xoriat is evil or at the least murderously insane, not just "beyond alignment" since just about everything having to do with aberrations deals with them sucking out brains, souls, driving people mad. But at the same time its not too Cthullu.
Just another user 01-03-07, 02:36 PM	what make sense you die, you stay dead (most of the time) You need healing, you search for an hospital (or a Jorasco house, same thing) and not a church. "Evil" gods that people would have some reason to worship, or at least pray to (I never understood why someone should worships a god of tiranny -unlesss he is a tyrant, of course, but there is not a lot of them.)
ArcTan 01-03-07, 09:16 PM	what make sense you die, you stay dead (most of the time) You need healing, you search for an hospital (or a Jorasco house, same thing) and not a church. "Evil" gods that people would have some reason to worship, or at least pray to (I never understood why someone should worships a god of tiranny -unlesss he is a tyrant, of course, but there is not a lot of them.) Clearly you have not experienced many actual tyrannies, nor asked actual subjects of tyrants what they think about the tyrants. An effective tyrant is quite capable of getting his subjects to worship and love him, the principles of his regime, and the idea of being tyrannized in general (which they will instead cast as having a "strong leader").
ArcTan 01-03-07, 09:18 PM	Saying Magic made them that way is such a cop-out. Mind you, it's the standard explanation for everything in FR, but there you go. Eberron doesn't give pseudo-scientific explanations for why things are. They're either mysteries, or easily explained. It's not a cop-out if it is, in fact, a big long story about their history. Anyway, the Eberron explanation for the drow is the same (made by magic).
cancerousmango 01-04-07, 05:37 PM	You picked the worst thing to show how it makes sense. Magic being commonplace Monsters not all being the same alliance (evil silver dragon, good vampire) Gods not walking around having sex with people. NPC classes such as adepts doing grunt work so there aren't high level PCs littering every town. Drow? They're dark in FR because of the gods. Kinda same deal in Eberron, as the umbragen have shadow in their bodies, and the standard drow, who knows.
androkguz 01-04-07, 11:56 PM	Quote: [Imagine the first half of this threat quoted here] :rofl: stupiest discussion ever Ok, things that make sense Good churches can commit acts of evil People in general have some idea of what magic can do so you can't get into a town and marvel everyone by casting color spray. Giants had a great civilization
goblin_pride 01-05-07, 03:53 AM	Ok, things that make sense Good churches can commit acts of evil People in general have some idea of what magic can do so you can't get into a town and marvel everyone by casting color spray. Giants had a great civilization You forgot the grand and glorious empire of the goblinoids that seems to have left ruins pretty much everywhere.
androkguz 01-05-07, 01:13 PM	You forgot the grand and glorious empire of the goblinoids that seems to have left ruins pretty much everywhere. No, I left it for you to say it ;) And I also left this: the superglorius age of Demons fiends have been more powerful since the world is three parts! Khyber was about to kill Syberis when Eberron arrived, Demons (rakshasas specially) dominated for 9.000.000 years, there are 3 mid-evil aligned planes and 1 strongly good, the inspired-kalashtar war is more like the masacre of the kalashtar by the inspired, shavarath has 1 good faction and 2 evil... do you get the point?.
Tusalu 01-05-07, 01:30 PM	(I never understood why someone should worships a god of tiranny -unlesss he is a tyrant, of course, but there is not a lot of them.) Discworld Patrician Havelock Vetinari. He is generally disliked (quite unfairly) by common folk. But he´s nearly worshipped by the Guild Leaders. If Vetinari is no tyrant, nobody is. He is perhaps not very cruel, but his only concern is staying in power.
Thrincold 01-05-07, 02:12 PM	You know what makes sense to me in Eberron? That Elves aren't more mutagenic than the common cold. Subraces aren't officially handled and are up to DM caveat. It always has bugged me that a race that only has 4 generations per millenia can have an infinite number of sub-races. The elves are just the worst offenders, others are bad too though.
Moebius 01-05-07, 05:12 PM	I like how clerics can be devoted to a whole pantheon under one church instead of always a single deity. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Charles Phipps 01-05-07, 05:47 PM	To the credit of the Forgotten Realms, it was never that the Gods of Evil were actually evil to their own clergies. They usually were depicted as being "The Great and Glorious Lord Bane, God of Everything." On the other hand, if the Devil actually showed up in downtown and started passing out cash for souls. You can get there'd be plenty of people dumb enough to do it.
Lokiyn 01-05-07, 10:14 PM	If Vetinari is no tyrant, nobody is. He is perhaps not very cruel, but his only concern is staying in power. And mimes.