Eberron meets Unearthed Arcana [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron meets Unearthed Arcana [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
m00
06-15-04, 02:21 AM I've been running a campaign for the last couple months using some of the variant rules from Unearthed Arcana and it's been working out great. So, in anticipation of possible future Eberron campaigns, I thought I'd start a thread discussing some of UA's variant rules and where and how they might fit in. I don't have experience with all of UA's variant rules (there are a lot), so I'll only include ones I've used.

First up, Wounds and Vitality. This is a system I've liked since I saw it in Star Wars d20, and it's been working out great in my D&D campaign. It's touted as a more cinematic take on hitpoints, and I think this is an accurate discription. This rule jumps right out at me and says "look at me, I fit right in with the theme and feel of Eberron." Seriously, this rule goes side-by-side with action points in my book. I'll definitely be using it in any of my Eberron campaigns.

However, there's one thing that has to be addressed in a WP/VP Eberron campaign: the Warforged. The rules as they are are easy enough to use without modification, but I think some really interesting things can be done that set the 'forged apart even more. Here's what I might do to the 'forged if I run a campaign like this: Warforged have WP and VP just like any other PC race (normally, constructs have only wound points, but the 'forged are living constructs). They lose and regain VP just like any other character, even from curing magic (for those unfamiliar with UA's WP/VP system, the d8's of a cure spell heal vitality damage, while the flat bonus from caster level heals wound damage). Cure spells do not, however, restore wound damage to warforged. Thus, the flat bonus from curing magic is wasted on a warforged character. A warforged's wound damage can only be repaired by an artificer's repair spell, or by the Craft skill. Craft checks to repair a warforged character's wound damage repairs a number of points equal to the Craft check -20 (-25 maybe? feedback here is very welcome). Fortification still works the same; a warforged subject to a critical hit has a 25% chance of avoiding wound damage and taking vitality damage instead. The name of the feat that gives 'forged 100% fortification escapes me at the moment, but it still functions the same in this system. Warforged are immune to fatigue, and thus do not suffer fatigue when they take wound damage. All of this is still theoretical at this point, so feedback and criticism are more than welcome.

Second up, and related to the cinematic feel of WP/VP and Action Points, is Class-Based Defense. I don't currently use this in my D&D campaign, but I've seen it enough and think it would fit in well with the feel of Eberron. Nothings more swashbuckly than class-based defense. Not much has to be done with this one, I think it can probably be instituted verbatim. I would like to see this and number three used together.

Which brings us to number three: Armor as Damage Reduction. More people seem to prefer Damage Conversion to Armor as DR, but I like Armor as DR more. It might be a little weaker at the higher levels than classic, but I like concept and will probably use it anyways. Again, I don't think this one needs a lot of alteration to fit in to Eberron.

So, how about subject number four, Spell Points? Of the UA variants I've been using, this is probably my favorite. But there's one problem: my UA campaign uses Generic Classes. I have no experience with spell points in a core-class system, so there might be side effects here I can't anticipate. One thing's for sure though: Spell Point spellcasters are really damn good. If I used this rule I'd make one small change though: spellcasters who normally prepare spells must still prepare spells. At the beginning of the day (or whenever they regain spells), they must spend Spell Points to prepare spells. Essentially, they still prepare spells as normal, just not with spell slots. No wizards casting spontaneously in my Eberron campaign, thank you.

Fifth up is Weapon Groups. I really like weapon groups. I think this rule would fit in well in the racially and culturally diverse setting of Eberron. I don't have ECSB yet, so I don't know a lot, but I think you could add a lot of distinction to the various races and cultures by using cultural weapon groups. Can you say Darguun Fighter with Flails and Chains? It'd be some work to come up with the cultural weapon groups, but the necessary information is probably in the ECSB already.

Anyways, these are just some of my thoughts. Let me know what you think. Feel free to discuss any other UA variants in an Eberron campaign here too.
JohnnyONeal
06-15-04, 09:00 AM Very cool ideas! They're big changes, to be sure, but I can definitely see them working. I got into the d20 rules with the Star Wars RPG, and a lot of those UA variants bring D&D closer to SWRPG, which does in fact create a more "cinematic" feel. (In this case, "cinematic" actually implies more realism rather than less, in that characters are less likely to play as walking tanks.)

I don't have UA in front of me right now, but two class variants immediately jump out at me: the cloistered cleric and the urban ranger.
protonik
06-15-04, 01:33 PM I want to use class based defense, how does that work? I don't have UA...

Jason
Hanuman47
06-15-04, 04:48 PM In my interim (while waiting for Eberron) Spellslinger campaign I've been using a variant of the WP/VP system (adjusted to make firearms more deadly), action points (no one has used any yet, though) and Traits and Flaws. The last two seemed very popular, especially with players on the min/max end of the spectrum (I don't mind - if you want an uber character, the challenges can always be adjusted accordingly...)
Kesh
06-16-04, 12:55 AM I'm considering adding the Taint rules, as a measure of evil in the world. It would either be tied to Xoriat specifically, or Evil in general. I'd need to think it through a bit more, though, as it would require a few house rules to really tie it into the setting properly.
Xaxor
06-17-04, 05:26 PM I don't have my copy of Unearthed Arcana close at hand, but I think I can give the basics of class based defense. There are 4 categories of defense IIRC, and the classes are spread among them. You can either use the defense bonus for your class, or you can wear armor. The classes more likely to wear heavy armor have the best bonuses while those without have the worst. That's pretty much it. The only other thing you need is the table containing the bonuses. I'll add it later.

The variant classes would seem a good fit, and I look forward to playing a crime fighting urban ranger. The alternative monk fighting styles would be useful as well.
Sanity could be of use in a campaign based around Xoriat.
The craft points concept is already used, or at least a very similar system is used for the Artificer.
I'll add more when I've gone through the book again.
Ezekiel
06-17-04, 07:58 PM I'm using the Class-based defence and Armor as DR rules myself. I want that true swashbuckling feeling to my campaign. Also, I changed the rule to allow the swashbuckler class the high AC as well. It just seemed too stupid to force a swashbuckler to take one lousy level of normal fighter to get the higher AC. Swashbucklers are supposed to be the nimble and dodgy ones after all.

I think it'll work out great. A warforged fighter with Adamantine Body will get AC 18 (or 19, based on dex) at level 1, plus possibly a shield. A human swashbuckler with 16 dex will get AC 19. But the warforged will have DR 4/- (from "wearing" full plate, that's how I'm gonna have it) and ignore every little whining goblin that comes in its way. Armour will still be worth it if you plan to be a tank, but walking around in your cool outfit with just a piece of chainmail here and there, you can still survive.

It will also explain all those pictures of cool looking heroes running around with medium armour when everyone knows you can't survive in anything but a full plate unless you're a monk or plan not to stick around in combat very long... ;)
Xaxor
06-18-04, 07:54 PM The Class Defense Bonus

In this variant, every character has a defense bonus based on his character levels. The defense bonus applies to Armor Class. However, it does not stack with the character's armor bonus. A character wearing armor gains it's armor bonus (including any enhancement to that bonus) or his defense bonus - whichever is higher - but not both. The defense bonus stacks with all other bonuses to AC, including shield bonus, natural armor bonus, and so forth.
Unlike an armor bonus, a defense bonus does improve a character's AC against touch attacks.
A character's defense bonus is derived from his character level and class, as shown on Table 4-1: Defense Bonus. For a multiclass characte, use the highest defense bonus of those offered by the character's classes. For example, a 2nd-level barbarian has a defense bonus of +4. If the character gains a level of cleric (becoming a 2nd-level barbarian/1st-level cleric), her defense bonus increases to +7, because the cleric's +7 at 3rd chacter level is better than the barbarian's +5 at 3rd character level.

Level A B C D
1st +2 +3 +4 +6
2nd +2 +3 +4 +6
3rd +3 +4 +5 +7
4th +3 +4 +5 +7
5th +3 +4 +5 +7
6th +4 +5 +6 +8
7th +4 +5 +6 +8
8th +4 +5 +6 +8
9th +5 +6 +7 +9
10th +5 +6 +7 +9
11th +5 +6 +7 +9
12th +6 +7 +8 +10
.....
20th +8 +9 +10 +12

A Monk, Sorcerer, Wizard
B Bard, Ranger, Rogue
C Barbarian, Druid
D Cleric, Fighter, Paladin

That's the basic stuff. And don't worry, UA is all OGC, so it's safe to post straight from it.
Kesh
06-19-04, 02:05 AM Originally posted by Xaxor
And don't worry, UA is all OGC, so it's safe to post straight from it.

Not true. By copyright law, it's okay to copy small amounts of text (a couple paragraphs or so... your post seems about right, maybe a bit much). However, copying entire sections of an OGC book (for instance, all of the class defense bonus section, several pages worth of text) would not be legal unless you add a proper OGL liscence document to your post when you do so.

And no, the entire book isn't OGC. Many "product identity" items are in there, such as any mention of Illithids.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
m00 06-15-04, 02:21 AM	I've been running a campaign for the last couple months using some of the variant rules from Unearthed Arcana and it's been working out great. So, in anticipation of possible future Eberron campaigns, I thought I'd start a thread discussing some of UA's variant rules and where and how they might fit in. I don't have experience with all of UA's variant rules (there are a lot), so I'll only include ones I've used. First up, Wounds and Vitality. This is a system I've liked since I saw it in Star Wars d20, and it's been working out great in my D&D campaign. It's touted as a more cinematic take on hitpoints, and I think this is an accurate discription. This rule jumps right out at me and says "look at me, I fit right in with the theme and feel of Eberron." Seriously, this rule goes side-by-side with action points in my book. I'll definitely be using it in any of my Eberron campaigns. However, there's one thing that has to be addressed in a WP/VP Eberron campaign: the Warforged. The rules as they are are easy enough to use without modification, but I think some really interesting things can be done that set the 'forged apart even more. Here's what I might do to the 'forged if I run a campaign like this: Warforged have WP and VP just like any other PC race (normally, constructs have only wound points, but the 'forged are living constructs). They lose and regain VP just like any other character, even from curing magic (for those unfamiliar with UA's WP/VP system, the d8's of a cure spell heal vitality damage, while the flat bonus from caster level heals wound damage). Cure spells do not, however, restore wound damage to warforged. Thus, the flat bonus from curing magic is wasted on a warforged character. A warforged's wound damage can only be repaired by an artificer's repair spell, or by the Craft skill. Craft checks to repair a warforged character's wound damage repairs a number of points equal to the Craft check -20 (-25 maybe? feedback here is very welcome). Fortification still works the same; a warforged subject to a critical hit has a 25% chance of avoiding wound damage and taking vitality damage instead. The name of the feat that gives 'forged 100% fortification escapes me at the moment, but it still functions the same in this system. Warforged are immune to fatigue, and thus do not suffer fatigue when they take wound damage. All of this is still theoretical at this point, so feedback and criticism are more than welcome. Second up, and related to the cinematic feel of WP/VP and Action Points, is Class-Based Defense. I don't currently use this in my D&D campaign, but I've seen it enough and think it would fit in well with the feel of Eberron. Nothings more swashbuckly than class-based defense. Not much has to be done with this one, I think it can probably be instituted verbatim. I would like to see this and number three used together. Which brings us to number three: Armor as Damage Reduction. More people seem to prefer Damage Conversion to Armor as DR, but I like Armor as DR more. It might be a little weaker at the higher levels than classic, but I like concept and will probably use it anyways. Again, I don't think this one needs a lot of alteration to fit in to Eberron. So, how about subject number four, Spell Points? Of the UA variants I've been using, this is probably my favorite. But there's one problem: my UA campaign uses Generic Classes. I have no experience with spell points in a core-class system, so there might be side effects here I can't anticipate. One thing's for sure though: Spell Point spellcasters are really damn good. If I used this rule I'd make one small change though: spellcasters who normally prepare spells must still prepare spells. At the beginning of the day (or whenever they regain spells), they must spend Spell Points to prepare spells. Essentially, they still prepare spells as normal, just not with spell slots. No wizards casting spontaneously in my Eberron campaign, thank you. Fifth up is Weapon Groups. I really like weapon groups. I think this rule would fit in well in the racially and culturally diverse setting of Eberron. I don't have ECSB yet, so I don't know a lot, but I think you could add a lot of distinction to the various races and cultures by using cultural weapon groups. Can you say Darguun Fighter with Flails and Chains? It'd be some work to come up with the cultural weapon groups, but the necessary information is probably in the ECSB already. Anyways, these are just some of my thoughts. Let me know what you think. Feel free to discuss any other UA variants in an Eberron campaign here too.
JohnnyONeal 06-15-04, 09:00 AM	Very cool ideas! They're big changes, to be sure, but I can definitely see them working. I got into the d20 rules with the Star Wars RPG, and a lot of those UA variants bring D&D closer to SWRPG, which does in fact create a more "cinematic" feel. (In this case, "cinematic" actually implies more realism rather than less, in that characters are less likely to play as walking tanks.) I don't have UA in front of me right now, but two class variants immediately jump out at me: the cloistered cleric and the urban ranger.
protonik 06-15-04, 01:33 PM	I want to use class based defense, how does that work? I don't have UA... Jason
Hanuman47 06-15-04, 04:48 PM	In my interim (while waiting for Eberron) Spellslinger campaign I've been using a variant of the WP/VP system (adjusted to make firearms more deadly), action points (no one has used any yet, though) and Traits and Flaws. The last two seemed very popular, especially with players on the min/max end of the spectrum (I don't mind - if you want an uber character, the challenges can always be adjusted accordingly...)
Kesh 06-16-04, 12:55 AM	I'm considering adding the Taint rules, as a measure of evil in the world. It would either be tied to Xoriat specifically, or Evil in general. I'd need to think it through a bit more, though, as it would require a few house rules to really tie it into the setting properly.
Xaxor 06-17-04, 05:26 PM	I don't have my copy of Unearthed Arcana close at hand, but I think I can give the basics of class based defense. There are 4 categories of defense IIRC, and the classes are spread among them. You can either use the defense bonus for your class, or you can wear armor. The classes more likely to wear heavy armor have the best bonuses while those without have the worst. That's pretty much it. The only other thing you need is the table containing the bonuses. I'll add it later. The variant classes would seem a good fit, and I look forward to playing a crime fighting urban ranger. The alternative monk fighting styles would be useful as well. Sanity could be of use in a campaign based around Xoriat. The craft points concept is already used, or at least a very similar system is used for the Artificer. I'll add more when I've gone through the book again.
Ezekiel 06-17-04, 07:58 PM	I'm using the Class-based defence and Armor as DR rules myself. I want that true swashbuckling feeling to my campaign. Also, I changed the rule to allow the swashbuckler class the high AC as well. It just seemed too stupid to force a swashbuckler to take one lousy level of normal fighter to get the higher AC. Swashbucklers are supposed to be the nimble and dodgy ones after all. I think it'll work out great. A warforged fighter with Adamantine Body will get AC 18 (or 19, based on dex) at level 1, plus possibly a shield. A human swashbuckler with 16 dex will get AC 19. But the warforged will have DR 4/- (from "wearing" full plate, that's how I'm gonna have it) and ignore every little whining goblin that comes in its way. Armour will still be worth it if you plan to be a tank, but walking around in your cool outfit with just a piece of chainmail here and there, you can still survive. It will also explain all those pictures of cool looking heroes running around with medium armour when everyone knows you can't survive in anything but a full plate unless you're a monk or plan not to stick around in combat very long... ;)
Xaxor 06-18-04, 07:54 PM	The Class Defense Bonus In this variant, every character has a defense bonus based on his character levels. The defense bonus applies to Armor Class. However, it does not stack with the character's armor bonus. A character wearing armor gains it's armor bonus (including any enhancement to that bonus) or his defense bonus - whichever is higher - but not both. The defense bonus stacks with all other bonuses to AC, including shield bonus, natural armor bonus, and so forth. Unlike an armor bonus, a defense bonus does improve a character's AC against touch attacks. A character's defense bonus is derived from his character level and class, as shown on Table 4-1: Defense Bonus. For a multiclass characte, use the highest defense bonus of those offered by the character's classes. For example, a 2nd-level barbarian has a defense bonus of +4. If the character gains a level of cleric (becoming a 2nd-level barbarian/1st-level cleric), her defense bonus increases to +7, because the cleric's +7 at 3rd chacter level is better than the barbarian's +5 at 3rd character level. Level A B C D 1st +2 +3 +4 +6 2nd +2 +3 +4 +6 3rd +3 +4 +5 +7 4th +3 +4 +5 +7 5th +3 +4 +5 +7 6th +4 +5 +6 +8 7th +4 +5 +6 +8 8th +4 +5 +6 +8 9th +5 +6 +7 +9 10th +5 +6 +7 +9 11th +5 +6 +7 +9 12th +6 +7 +8 +10 ..... 20th +8 +9 +10 +12 A Monk, Sorcerer, Wizard B Bard, Ranger, Rogue C Barbarian, Druid D Cleric, Fighter, Paladin That's the basic stuff. And don't worry, UA is all OGC, so it's safe to post straight from it.
Kesh 06-19-04, 02:05 AM	Originally posted by Xaxor And don't worry, UA is all OGC, so it's safe to post straight from it. Not true. By copyright law, it's okay to copy small amounts of text (a couple paragraphs or so... your post seems about right, maybe a bit much). However, copying entire sections of an OGC book (for instance, all of the class defense bonus section, several pages worth of text) would not be legal unless you add a proper OGL liscence document to your post when you do so. And no, the entire book isn't OGC. Many "product identity" items are in there, such as any mention of Illithids.