Eberron Military [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron Military [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Durandal
02-20-05, 01:49 AM I'm about to get started in an Eberron campaign, and two of the characters are former soldiers in armies for two of the Five Nations - one is a former Cyran sorcerer, the other is a Breland fighter. I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on military ranking schemes for either the armies of Cyre or Breland, or on how a sorcerer might fit into traditional armed forces - and how he might be useful at a beginner's level of experience. It's not terribly important, but it could be useful for character background, and we like to be thorough if at all possible.
Lurkalot
02-20-05, 05:37 AM I'm not an expert on military structures, but I'll offer the following:

You don't need a large and rigid ranking system like modern armies. The reason for this is three-fold. Firstly Khorvarian and Cyrean armies would be much smaller in numbers thus requiring less hierarchy. Secondly, without easy mass communication commanders will be less able to micro-manage their armies - so there will be more reliance on low-ranking officers to go out and get the job done. Thirdly, real authority in the Brelish army would ultimately fall to the nobles who raised the vassal armies and this could act as a cap on military promotion.

As to the uses of a Sorceror or a Fighter at low-level, remember that PC classed characters are exceptional. If you want to lend them a bit more glory than their personal abilities allow, just give them the sort of resources they deserve. Both the Sorceror and the Fighter could lead a small group of men. The sorceror could be in charge of those magewright skirmishers. Five or six men armed with eternal wands, laying in ambush? Or as Sorcerors in Eberron are wilder and stranger, give him charge of the unit's fireball wand to provide support - i.e. he's the heavy weapons guy.

There are just as many opportunities for the Fighter. In addition to being in charge of a small unit, there are other useful positions he could fill, such as an martial instructor. A first level fighter is still better than a 1st or 2nd level warrior. And there's no reason why he couldn't train higher level warriors. Consider a person with basic training in a martial art. They could be flattened by a more experienced thug on the street, but that doesn't mean that the martial artist couldn't have offered useful pointers.

The usefulness of the PCs in the military is not limited to their personal ability. If they're smart, a good commander would make use of that. The same goes for other aptitudes. One of them has goblin as a language? Great - he serves as the liason to the hobgoblin mercenaries. Hell, you can appoint the fighter to be the brigade's official troll handler. A scene from my own game is where battling at the foot of a hill, the soldiers look up to see a covered cart pushed down towards them. The pegs having been knocked out it falls apart as it crashes into them and out comes the half-starved and furious troll. How many class levels did the soldier who did that require?

There is geographical knowledge, spiritual support, cultural bridging, tactical insight, moral boosting - none of which needs anything more than a small investment of skill points to make the character useful in such a role.

But most of all - the PCs are heroes. They should have done something spectacular in their military careers, even if they were the only witness to their own heroics. So they should have been more than ordinary soldiers in some way.
Mandarbgrim
02-20-05, 08:44 AM I started to write out a long boring essay on rank and why it has always been important. But it is a fantasy setting, you can have rank as important as you want it.

I would suggest giving both of the PC's a minor officer rank if they had control of a small number of men on a permanent basis <Something besides, Hey take 4 men and go scouting northeast, or pick up supplies at Brandle's Ferry.>, a position of responsability, or possession of or command of valuable equipment <Eternal Wands, ect>.

It is easiest to just give the armies modern rank structure and organization if you or the players are familiar with it.

4-5 Companies- Battalion - Lt. Colonel
4 Platoons- Company - Captain & First Sergeant
4 Squads- Platoon - Lieutenant & Platoon Sergeant
2 Teams- Squad - Sergeant or Staff Sergeant
4-5 Soldiers- Team - Corporal or Sergeant

Or if you aren't familiar with the any organizations just make a system based off the metric system.

10 soldiers - Squad -
10 Squads- Company-
10 Companies- Battalion-
(Psi)SeveredHead
02-20-05, 12:52 PM If we were to use real-life medieval militaries as a "guide" there were the "regular guys" and the officers.

The regular guys were frequently peasants or criminals forced into the army. The peasants could go one the war was over. The crooks, on the other hand, had to stay. Warforged would fall into the "regular guys" category.

Officers were frequently noblemen, or people who founded their own units, and despite their leadership role weren't always good leaders or even competent. High-ranking classes, such as wizards, would probably automatically become low-ranking officers if they joined an army.

This is ignoring professional soldiers, "regular guys" who are frequently mercenaries or retainers to noblemen but who don't stop fighting.

These structures were loose at the time - there was frequently room for advancement. Unfortunately, DnD core rules don't have a good class to represent a competent officer.

PS how were the warforged controlled? I guess they were too valuable to get their lives tossed away... do they simply respect authority too much?
talion09
02-20-05, 01:00 PM If we were to use real-life medieval militaries as a "guide" there were the "regular guys" and the officers.

The regular guys were frequently peasants or criminals forced into the army. The peasants could go one the war was over. The crooks, on the other hand, had to stay. Warforged would fall into the "regular guys" category.

Officers were frequently noblemen, or people who founded their own units, and despite their leadership role weren't always good leaders or even competent. High-ranking classes, such as wizards, would probably automatically become low-ranking officers if they joined an army.

This is ignoring professional soldiers, "regular guys" who are frequently mercenaries or retainers to noblemen but who don't stop fighting.

These structures were loose at the time - there was frequently room for advancement. Unfortunately, DnD core rules don't have a good class to represent a competent officer.

PS how were the warforged controlled? I guess they were too valuable to get their lives tossed away... do they simply respect authority too much?

IMHO, Marshall from the MiniHB is a pretty good class to simulate a good combat leader. Not core, but still a WOTC class.
Beleriphon
02-20-05, 01:03 PM These structures were loose at the time - there was frequently room for advancement. Unfortunately, DnD core rules don't have a good class to represent a competent officer.

PS how were the warforged controlled? I guess they were too valuable to get their lives tossed away... do they simply respect authority too much?

There is one class that almost implies a good officer, the paladin. If given a set of reasonably good stats (of which charisma is definately one) you could with three or four levels have a character that makes a fine lieutenant in any army.

As for the warforged, I think its like anybody else. They were effectively raised in the military with virtually no knowledge of anything else. They followed orders because they didn't know about anything else. Read City of Towers, Pierce is an excellent example of how I feel many warforged would react.
(Psi)SeveredHead
02-20-05, 01:21 PM There is one class that almost implies a good officer, the paladin. If given a set of reasonably good stats (of which charisma is definately one) you could with three or four levels have a character that makes a fine lieutenant in any army.

I have to disagree with this one. The alignment prereq alone disqualifies them (LG rarely make good warlords, who come in pretty much any alignment) plus they have next to no ability to enhance their soldiers.

As for the warforged, I think its like anybody else. They were effectively raised in the military with virtually no knowledge of anything else. They followed orders because they didn't know about anything else. Read City of Towers, Pierce is an excellent example of how I feel many warforged would react.

I've heard of the novel, but I haven't seen it. Of course, I live in Canada and haven't been in a paying bookstore for a couple of weeks...
Ellipsis
02-20-05, 01:31 PM As to the sorceror's uses, here's some uses for cantrips he might have. 1st-level spells are easy to figure out, but hose dang 0-level ones...

Resistance, daze, ray of frost - obvious

Detect poison - well, this could help if the adept is downed, and using it daily to check if rations have been sabotaged (hey, you never know) is another possibility.

Dancing lights - can be sent ahead, unlike light. This isn't the best for espionage, but if the element of surprise isn't needed, it can be helpful to your companions. And if you're fighting in a marshy area...(will'o'wisps, anyone?)

Flare - when the going gets tough, send for reinforcements...and cast it on your opponent's face

Light - a bit obvious, but still useful

Ghost sound - a muffled sneeze or snaping twig in the bushes is a nice diversion

Disrupt undead - if your character fought against Karrnathi undead, there are few better spells he could use.

Mage hand - pilfering the keys if you're a POW, making the enemies' rations dance...

Mending - fixing a chainmail link that could become a bigger problem, fixing a sword notch that could fail at any time...

Open/close - opening a ttent flap or crate is another possible diversion

Arcane mark - if you're a scout, leaving marks along the way to lead troops to a position whilst you are elsewhere is a possible use of this spell. Invisibly marking important military figures to prevent changeling replacements and such is another use.

Detect magic - always useful for picking out treasure at the end of a battle...and for picking out a wand of fireball beforehand.

Prestidigitation - 1-pound telekinesis (see mage hand), soiling the floor to detect invisible creatures, warming up those crappy rations and adding flavor...

Read magic - reading scrolls taken form fallen mages or identifying the occasional glyph of warding or symbol
Beleriphon
02-20-05, 02:32 PM I've heard of the novel, but I haven't seen it. Of course, I live in Canada and haven't been in a paying bookstore for a couple of weeks...

You and me both, of course it only costs $10.00. As for the paladin, they make excellent leaders, although the alignment restriction can be a set back.

At any rate, check out City of Towers, its is a good read and sets up some nice problems for the heroes in later novels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Durandal 02-20-05, 01:49 AM	I'm about to get started in an Eberron campaign, and two of the characters are former soldiers in armies for two of the Five Nations - one is a former Cyran sorcerer, the other is a Breland fighter. I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on military ranking schemes for either the armies of Cyre or Breland, or on how a sorcerer might fit into traditional armed forces - and how he might be useful at a beginner's level of experience. It's not terribly important, but it could be useful for character background, and we like to be thorough if at all possible.
Lurkalot 02-20-05, 05:37 AM	I'm not an expert on military structures, but I'll offer the following: You don't need a large and rigid ranking system like modern armies. The reason for this is three-fold. Firstly Khorvarian and Cyrean armies would be much smaller in numbers thus requiring less hierarchy. Secondly, without easy mass communication commanders will be less able to micro-manage their armies - so there will be more reliance on low-ranking officers to go out and get the job done. Thirdly, real authority in the Brelish army would ultimately fall to the nobles who raised the vassal armies and this could act as a cap on military promotion. As to the uses of a Sorceror or a Fighter at low-level, remember that PC classed characters are exceptional. If you want to lend them a bit more glory than their personal abilities allow, just give them the sort of resources they deserve. Both the Sorceror and the Fighter could lead a small group of men. The sorceror could be in charge of those magewright skirmishers. Five or six men armed with eternal wands, laying in ambush? Or as Sorcerors in Eberron are wilder and stranger, give him charge of the unit's fireball wand to provide support - i.e. he's the heavy weapons guy. There are just as many opportunities for the Fighter. In addition to being in charge of a small unit, there are other useful positions he could fill, such as an martial instructor. A first level fighter is still better than a 1st or 2nd level warrior. And there's no reason why he couldn't train higher level warriors. Consider a person with basic training in a martial art. They could be flattened by a more experienced thug on the street, but that doesn't mean that the martial artist couldn't have offered useful pointers. The usefulness of the PCs in the military is not limited to their personal ability. If they're smart, a good commander would make use of that. The same goes for other aptitudes. One of them has goblin as a language? Great - he serves as the liason to the hobgoblin mercenaries. Hell, you can appoint the fighter to be the brigade's official troll handler. A scene from my own game is where battling at the foot of a hill, the soldiers look up to see a covered cart pushed down towards them. The pegs having been knocked out it falls apart as it crashes into them and out comes the half-starved and furious troll. How many class levels did the soldier who did that require? There is geographical knowledge, spiritual support, cultural bridging, tactical insight, moral boosting - none of which needs anything more than a small investment of skill points to make the character useful in such a role. But most of all - the PCs are heroes. They should have done something spectacular in their military careers, even if they were the only witness to their own heroics. So they should have been more than ordinary soldiers in some way.
Mandarbgrim 02-20-05, 08:44 AM	I started to write out a long boring essay on rank and why it has always been important. But it is a fantasy setting, you can have rank as important as you want it. I would suggest giving both of the PC's a minor officer rank if they had control of a small number of men on a permanent basis <Something besides, Hey take 4 men and go scouting northeast, or pick up supplies at Brandle's Ferry.>, a position of responsability, or possession of or command of valuable equipment <Eternal Wands, ect>. It is easiest to just give the armies modern rank structure and organization if you or the players are familiar with it. 4-5 Companies- Battalion - Lt. Colonel 4 Platoons- Company - Captain & First Sergeant 4 Squads- Platoon - Lieutenant & Platoon Sergeant 2 Teams- Squad - Sergeant or Staff Sergeant 4-5 Soldiers- Team - Corporal or Sergeant Or if you aren't familiar with the any organizations just make a system based off the metric system. 10 soldiers - Squad - 10 Squads- Company- 10 Companies- Battalion-
(Psi)SeveredHead 02-20-05, 12:52 PM	If we were to use real-life medieval militaries as a "guide" there were the "regular guys" and the officers. The regular guys were frequently peasants or criminals forced into the army. The peasants could go one the war was over. The crooks, on the other hand, had to stay. Warforged would fall into the "regular guys" category. Officers were frequently noblemen, or people who founded their own units, and despite their leadership role weren't always good leaders or even competent. High-ranking classes, such as wizards, would probably automatically become low-ranking officers if they joined an army. This is ignoring professional soldiers, "regular guys" who are frequently mercenaries or retainers to noblemen but who don't stop fighting. These structures were loose at the time - there was frequently room for advancement. Unfortunately, DnD core rules don't have a good class to represent a competent officer. PS how were the warforged controlled? I guess they were too valuable to get their lives tossed away... do they simply respect authority too much?
talion09 02-20-05, 01:00 PM	If we were to use real-life medieval militaries as a "guide" there were the "regular guys" and the officers. The regular guys were frequently peasants or criminals forced into the army. The peasants could go one the war was over. The crooks, on the other hand, had to stay. Warforged would fall into the "regular guys" category. Officers were frequently noblemen, or people who founded their own units, and despite their leadership role weren't always good leaders or even competent. High-ranking classes, such as wizards, would probably automatically become low-ranking officers if they joined an army. This is ignoring professional soldiers, "regular guys" who are frequently mercenaries or retainers to noblemen but who don't stop fighting. These structures were loose at the time - there was frequently room for advancement. Unfortunately, DnD core rules don't have a good class to represent a competent officer. PS how were the warforged controlled? I guess they were too valuable to get their lives tossed away... do they simply respect authority too much? IMHO, Marshall from the MiniHB is a pretty good class to simulate a good combat leader. Not core, but still a WOTC class.
Beleriphon 02-20-05, 01:03 PM	These structures were loose at the time - there was frequently room for advancement. Unfortunately, DnD core rules don't have a good class to represent a competent officer. PS how were the warforged controlled? I guess they were too valuable to get their lives tossed away... do they simply respect authority too much? There is one class that almost implies a good officer, the paladin. If given a set of reasonably good stats (of which charisma is definately one) you could with three or four levels have a character that makes a fine lieutenant in any army. As for the warforged, I think its like anybody else. They were effectively raised in the military with virtually no knowledge of anything else. They followed orders because they didn't know about anything else. Read City of Towers, Pierce is an excellent example of how I feel many warforged would react.
(Psi)SeveredHead 02-20-05, 01:21 PM	There is one class that almost implies a good officer, the paladin. If given a set of reasonably good stats (of which charisma is definately one) you could with three or four levels have a character that makes a fine lieutenant in any army. I have to disagree with this one. The alignment prereq alone disqualifies them (LG rarely make good warlords, who come in pretty much any alignment) plus they have next to no ability to enhance their soldiers. As for the warforged, I think its like anybody else. They were effectively raised in the military with virtually no knowledge of anything else. They followed orders because they didn't know about anything else. Read City of Towers, Pierce is an excellent example of how I feel many warforged would react. I've heard of the novel, but I haven't seen it. Of course, I live in Canada and haven't been in a paying bookstore for a couple of weeks...
Ellipsis 02-20-05, 01:31 PM	As to the sorceror's uses, here's some uses for cantrips he might have. 1st-level spells are easy to figure out, but hose dang 0-level ones... Resistance, daze, ray of frost - obvious Detect poison - well, this could help if the adept is downed, and using it daily to check if rations have been sabotaged (hey, you never know) is another possibility. Dancing lights - can be sent ahead, unlike light. This isn't the best for espionage, but if the element of surprise isn't needed, it can be helpful to your companions. And if you're fighting in a marshy area...(will'o'wisps, anyone?) Flare - when the going gets tough, send for reinforcements...and cast it on your opponent's face Light - a bit obvious, but still useful Ghost sound - a muffled sneeze or snaping twig in the bushes is a nice diversion Disrupt undead - if your character fought against Karrnathi undead, there are few better spells he could use. Mage hand - pilfering the keys if you're a POW, making the enemies' rations dance... Mending - fixing a chainmail link that could become a bigger problem, fixing a sword notch that could fail at any time... Open/close - opening a ttent flap or crate is another possible diversion Arcane mark - if you're a scout, leaving marks along the way to lead troops to a position whilst you are elsewhere is a possible use of this spell. Invisibly marking important military figures to prevent changeling replacements and such is another use. Detect magic - always useful for picking out treasure at the end of a battle...and for picking out a wand of fireball beforehand. Prestidigitation - 1-pound telekinesis (see mage hand), soiling the floor to detect invisible creatures, warming up those crappy rations and adding flavor... Read magic - reading scrolls taken form fallen mages or identifying the occasional glyph of warding or symbol
Beleriphon 02-20-05, 02:32 PM	I've heard of the novel, but I haven't seen it. Of course, I live in Canada and haven't been in a paying bookstore for a couple of weeks... You and me both, of course it only costs $10.00. As for the paladin, they make excellent leaders, although the alignment restriction can be a set back. At any rate, check out City of Towers, its is a good read and sets up some nice problems for the heroes in later novels.