Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowdancer 07-17-04, 02:08 AM	What skill(s) would you need to create an Eberron reporter? Profession (journalist), Craft (newswriting) or a combination of the two?
Dauntless 07-17-04, 02:12 AM	I'd say it'd be a profession skill, if anything. It isn't a craft, as you aren't "making" anything. Though high ranks in bluff might give you bonuses when telling fantastic tales about great heroes. Perhaps even a synergy bonus from Perform(storyteller)?
freebrainzero 07-17-04, 03:48 AM	I agree with Dauntless on the craft thing. Profession (reporter) is the way to go. Bluff is good. I'd also put some points in Search, Sense Motive and Diplomacy. Also, I worked for a few years as a reporter and you'd be amazed at all the crap you pick up. So a few Knowledge skills would be reasonable too. Esp. Kno (Local). Probably some Knowledge skills to represent the characters ties to local goverment contacts and knowing how to cut through red tape and that sort of thing. As a DM I would allow certain synergy bonuses from Profession (reporter) in regards to the other skills while covering her beat (ie. talking to low-level goverment officials or town guards or snitches or what have you).
Just another user 07-17-04, 08:49 AM	Profesion (reporter) is to find the news, Craft(writing) is about the quality of the articles.
Red_Decker 07-17-04, 10:36 AM	Was going to add Craft(Writing) because it will determine the quality of your writing. Profession you just know how to get paid for it. So IMO you base writing the reports off of Craft(Writing) and to determine how much the article makes you do Profession(journalist) check with a synergy bonus from Craft(writing), Knowledge(Local), and Bluff. Bluff has already been pointed out but Knowledge(Local) for the simple fact that if you know alot about the area you probably know alot of people from the area and generates fame and better selling papers. I know from taking journalism some of my friends only read the school newspaper because they saw my article was in. [Teachers too]. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Bluebrush 07-17-04, 11:24 AM	The first Ebberon character I'm playing with is a journalist. Initially, I took "Craft: Wordsmithing" but now I've reconsidered. In my opinion, Journalism should be something represented by a set of skills rather than one plain profession skill. For example, Gather information is useful for tracking down news, Sense motive, Bluff, Diplomacy and such are good for interviewing. Search, spot and listen are good for the nosy journalist who doesn't know what's good for him. And of course a few good knowledge skills so you know what you're talking about. Characters could be paid based on what they report rather than dice rolls. This could be used as a plot device by the DM. Don't want to put too much treasure in a wilderness encounter, since it'd be unrealistic for a dire wolf to have any magic weapons? Have the Newspaper pay the journalist a few thousand gold for an exciting article on the slaying of a rampaging wolf. Also, it can make for an excellent patron. Want the players to go to the demon wastes? Tell the reporter guy to go there to investigate strange happenings and such. The editor could even arrange transport to get them there and warm clothing to protect them from rampaging mountain lions. That said, this represents more the action-journalism which is mostly the domain of comic book heroes. For more mundane reporting (Like interviewing local minor nobles just to hear what they say, or telling the tale of local tailor Mrs Thropwhite, who turned 100 today) Profession (Journalist) would probably be suitable. Though such journalism would be overshadowed by more flashy journalists who delve into the dangerous intrigues of Khorvaire.
Pallis 07-17-04, 03:13 PM	...so maybe when visiting the Korranberg Chronicle website, you'll be able to figure out which journos have a higher skill in profession, bluff and craft... :eek:
Red_Decker 07-17-04, 03:23 PM	Bluebrush I agree with what your doing except the not having the Craft(Writing). Doing things is the easy part writing them is hard. The craft check would be to determine how well it is written. Pulitzer prize winners can write a story about the turnup contest winner at the local fair and make it a great read, or they can have an off day and turn the Assassination of a major figure good for only fish wrap. I'm blabbling. Long Short of it if they can't write the story the patron won't give them the story to write. Bad writers get county fairs, good writers get the real news. Illistration Jack Magee from the Hulk TV series from the 70's was a reporter for a tabloid and he was reporting on the hulk, he had the story but couldn't write it well enough that his editor would accept most of his work. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
freebrainzero 07-18-04, 01:18 AM	Originally posted by Red_Decker I'm blabbling. Long Short of it if they can't write the story the patron won't give them the story to write. Bad writers get county fairs, good writers get the real news. Not that it really matters, I guess, but writing and reporting have little to do with one another and I even mean what you read in a newspaper. Some of the best reporters I knew weren't great writers and some of the best writers I knew were lousy reporters. A good reporter gets the real news b/c he "gets" it. Also, if you're using real world comparisons you could do it the way a lot of places did it "back in the day" and have a field reporter who gathers the info and then "calls it in" to the office where someone else writes the story. It isn't hard to write a news story. It's formulaic Inverted Pryamid stuff. It doesn't take a great writer, or even a good writer, to put sentences together in a readable and communicative manner. Anyone with half a brain and a grasp of basic grammar can write a typical newspaper article. An in-depth exposé about the House of Vol? A touching piece about homeless Warforged in Sharn? Maybe a Craft (writer) skill roll might be necessary. But really I think a Profession (reporter) skill check would cover it best. As someone once said on here "You're not making anything." Would you have a Craft (poem), or a Craft (songwriter) check in place of a Perform check? A Craft check is about hammers and nails (so to speak). A profession check covers doing the gig right and that includes writing the article. But as with all my other opinions that's simply my own view on it.
Bluebrush 07-18-04, 06:33 AM	I think using profession to cover uncovered Journalist skills is iffy, but in my opinion it should be something you pick up as your back story and don't need to invest points in. Like being a soldier. There's more to it than fighting and what any fighter skill can represent, but it's assumed that the character will know when to salute and how to march properly.
Shadowdancer 07-19-04, 03:31 AM	Originally posted by freebrainzero Would you have a Craft (poem), or a Craft (songwriter) check in place of a Perform check? A Craft check is about hammers and nails (so to speak). A profession check covers doing the gig right and that includes writing the article. If the PC was performing a song, I would require a Perform check. If the PC was writing an original song, I would require a Craft (songwriting) check. I currently work as a journalist (for a newspaper), and I agree that reporting and writing are two different things. That is why I would require Profession (journalist) for the reporting side (working their beat), and Craft (newswriting) for the actual writing portion of the job. Of course, Knowledge skills and such things as Bluff, Diplomacy and Gather Information can help -- maybe give a synergy bonus. I posed this question here because of a similar discussion on another message board. The consensus -- one I do not share -- seemed to be that it was inappropriate to require two skills to represent doing one job. I was wondering what people here thought about the subject.
Bluebrush 07-19-04, 08:32 AM	Answer from Hellcow himself. (As always, Hellcow's posts are his opinon and not nescessarily WotC's official ruling.) Originally posted by Hellcow The standard reporter for most chronicles would probably be a 1st or 2nd-level expert. However, as the Korranberg Chronicle is the highest-rated chronicle, and bards are more common in Zilargo than anywhere else, I could see a KC reporter having some bard levels -- not necessarily using Perform (and therefore, no Bardic music effects), but possessing Bardic Knowledge and a minor knack for magic. Say, a bard 2/expert 1 with comprehend languages, disguise self, message, read magic, prestidigitation, and mage hand, along with Sense Motive, Gather Information, and a mix of Knowledge, language skills, a little Diplomacy, stealth, and Profession. A snoop reporter might be more focused on stealth, Listen, Spot, etc.
JohnnyONeal 07-19-04, 09:25 AM	In my opinion, Journalism should be something represented by a set of skills rather than one plain profession skill. For example, Gather information is useful for tracking down news, Sense motive, Bluff, Diplomacy and such are good for interviewing. Search, spot and listen are good for the nosy journalist who doesn't know what's good for him. And of course a few good knowledge skills so you know what you're talking about. Characters could be paid based on what they report rather than dice rolls.I agree with this, though the last sentence could go a couple of different ways. The skills you mentioned (along with the things Hellcow mentioned) are really what makes a reporter a good reporter. Some plots could revolve around them landing a particularly high-paying story, and those would provide money beyond the standard profession check. But the results of the Profession (chronicler) to reflect their ability to get their stories published and make some money off of them on a day to day basis, outside of adventures. One thing I like about that approach is that it's cinematic. You can have a character with the potential to be the best chronicler around (high scores in associated skills), but he chases the big stories rather than the daily bread-and-butter news (low Profession score). He might have a rival who gets rich off of society stories and fabricated interviews (someone with lots of ranks in Profession), but he'll always know he's the better reporter.
freebrainzero 07-19-04, 01:05 PM	Originally posted by Shadowdancer If the PC was performing a song, I would require a Perform check. If the PC was writing an original song, I would require a Craft (songwriting) check. So a PC writes a song and makes a Craft (songwriting) check, and then she performs the song and makes a Perform check. How does the Craft check affect the Perform check? How would it affect the Perform check of someone who didn't write the song? Would you have Masterwork Songs included as treasure? Whoa, a Masterwork Ballad of Farvelgrubbin The Fluffy! That'll get me some free mead tonight! This is either redundant or it creates unnecessary steps. I am opposed to both those things on a strict moral basis. Also I'm lazy and the last thing I need is more. (No I didn't forget any words. That's where I wanted that sentence to end.) I just hate (and I can't use that word strongly enough) the idea of a Craft (Writing) skill. I think I ran across it in D20 Modern or somewhere else. But it's especially pointless for a reporter. Reporting is the job. You get paid for getting the story AND reporting it. Reporting is something you do for a living. It pays the rent. Writing is something you do when you're not delivering pizzas or trying to explain to a sorority girl that all those writing rules she learned in high school were wrong. (A preposition is a perfectly good thing to end a sentence with. Dagnabit!) I liked Hellcow's view on it. Maybe there should be an alternate Bard class w/out the Perform stuff. I like Bardic Knowledge, but I hate the flute. What am I to do? Anyway, good luck with the journalism. Keep your head low.
Foxboy2000 07-19-04, 02:36 PM	I like Bardic Knowledge, but I hate the flute. What am I to do? If you read the PHB skill description carefully, you'll find that Perform is not just music. It includes drama, stand-up comedy, and dance. Imagine a wise-cracking comedian bard instead of the traditional Alan-a-Dale troubador. His charm and wit allows him to fascinate his audience just as well as a stirring flute cadenza or insane arpeggioes on a lute. This also allows the bard to take on an action movie type of attitude, cracking jokes in the face of adversity and utilizing the "bardic music" ability. The patrons of the Soggy Feather clapped and laughed in appreciation as Lym finished her impersonations of the crowned heads of Khorvaire. The changeling's rendition of Karnath's Kaius III had been particularly well-received by the predominantly Thranish audience. Returning to her own natural appearance, she sat heavily in one of the booths across from her contact. The heavily-built human looked at her with some concern and, as Lym noticed, a slight level of attraction. She filed the information for a later time and spoke. "What have you got for me, Yori?" Yori sighed. "It's not looking good, Lym," he said wearily. "These Emerald Claw guys are good at hiding from or eliminating threats. All of my usual sources are on edge and silent." He reached over and took her hand. "I want you to be careful, okay?" Lym shifted into a human form and smiled gently. "I know what I'm doing. Trust me."
Red_Decker 07-19-04, 07:08 PM	Originally posted by freebrainzero So a PC writes a song and makes a Craft (songwriting) check, and then she performs the song and makes a Perform check. How does the Craft check affect the Perform check? How would it affect the Perform check of someone who didn't write the song? Would you have Masterwork Songs included as treasure? Whoa, a Masterwork Ballad of Farvelgrubbin The Fluffy! That'll get me some free mead tonight! This is either redundant or it creates unnecessary steps. I am opposed to both those things on a strict moral basis. Also I'm lazy and the last thing I need is more. (No I didn't forget any words. That's where I wanted that sentence to end.) I just hate (and I can't use that word strongly enough) the idea of a Craft (Writing) skill. I think I ran across it in D20 Modern or somewhere else. But it's especially pointless for a reporter. Reporting is the job. You get paid for getting the story AND reporting it. Reporting is something you do for a living. It pays the rent. Writing is something you do when you're not delivering pizzas or trying to explain to a sorority girl that all those writing rules she learned in high school were wrong. (A preposition is a perfectly good thing to end a sentence with. Dagnabit!) I liked Hellcow's view on it. Maybe there should be an alternate Bard class w/out the Perform stuff. I like Bardic Knowledge, but I hate the flute. What am I to do? Anyway, good luck with the journalism. Keep your head low. Perform is singing the songs you learn and has nothing to do with writing them. Their are countless people in the music industry that write songs and music but couldn't hold a note to save their life. Coyote Ugly, the main character could write excellent songs but didn't feel comfortable on stage thus had a low perform check. Their are countless ways Craft(writing) is lightyears away from perform. Novelists, perfect example the only write they don't perform. If you're lazy and don't want to do the extra roll, because that's really all it is, then don't but discouraging it is closing off area's a character could want to develop. After all someone had to write the songs that bards sing, who says it had to be a bard. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
freebrainzero 07-21-04, 12:23 PM	Originally posted by Foxboy2000 If you read the PHB skill description carefully, you'll find that Perform is not just music. It includes drama, stand-up comedy, and dance.[/i] Yeah. You don't actually have to read it that carefully. I was being facetious. I think I spelled that right. There's actually a bard in the party I'm currently in/running and he doesn't play an instrument or sing. He calls himself a storyteller but I refer to him as Blabbo The Not Terribly Talented. Sometimes I call him Useless. Sometimes I call him a liar. Of course I'm playing a Halfling Cleric of Zagyg who is either a polymorphed human, a crazy Halfling, or a crazy midget so I probably don't have much room to talk.
freebrainzero 07-21-04, 12:42 PM	Originally posted by Red_Decker If you're lazy and don't want to do the extra roll, because that's really all it is, then don't but discouraging it is closing off area's a character could want to develop. After all someone had to write the songs that bards sing, who says it had to be a bard. Okay, but what if instead of lazy I'm actually a Gelatinous Cube? Would I make an extra roll then? Look, I'm not discouraging anyone from anything. As a friend of mine once ingenously put it to me, "I simply don't have time to argue with you over something you're wrong about." My main point is that writing should be a Profession skill and not a craft skill. A well-made sword is a well-made sword. A sturdy roof is a sturdy roof. On matters of aesthetics however there is too much room for varying opinions to represent it by a Craft skill check, or really any skill check. However Profession could be used to determine that, at least if not everyone loves her work, a writer can still make a living doing it. If you feel a need to represent that sort of thing with skill checks. But to slightly change topic and discuss a pet peeve of mine: I think there's a tendency among some players to want to do rolls for everything. I remember when there was this stupid thing for GURPS to explain sexual interplay between characters. You can't use a dice roll to mimic everything. At some point you just have to use your imagination and make it a point of character instead of skill points. If a player wants his character to be a writer then PRESTO! he's a writer. Is he famous? Is he rich? Well, that's something to be worked out. I just don't think skill points should be used to represent the inconstancy of art. Take Stephen King. I hate his novels. His books are the worst researched things on the planet. He once had a 45-magnum in one of his novels. (Or something equally stupid. I forget the exact caliber of the error.) But you can't deny he's one of the most popular writers of his generation. On the other hand I believe his non-fiction is great and I think he's one of the best short story writers alive. How would you represent that? High scores in Craft (Short Story) and in Craft (Nonfiction) and lower score in Craft (Novel)? But wait! That's just my opinion. What if someone else thinks he's just a wonderful writer of novels and they've never read his nonfiction? How would you represent that variation in someone's tastes? At what point do you draw the line while you're micromanaging life experience into skill points? Basing your character concept entirely on skill points doesn't open up a players ability to develop a character. It puts the character in a box and limits his development to basic mathematics. If a fighter only has enough skill points for things which are useful in-game say, Jump and Climb, then is that it for him? He can only be a jumper and a climber when he's not bashing things with something heavy? I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should play their game. I thought we were just tossing off opinions here. Hell, I'm actually getting off my topic. I will now take my friends advice. :)
lukelightning 07-21-04, 12:58 PM	If you went to the Jayson Blaire school of journalism all you'd need is bluff and forgery.
Red_Decker 07-24-04, 11:20 AM	Originally posted by freebrainzero Okay, but what if instead of lazy I'm actually a Gelatinous Cube? Would I make an extra roll then? Look, I'm not discouraging anyone from anything. As a friend of mine once ingenously put it to me, "I simply don't have time to argue with you over something you're wrong about." My main point is that writing should be a Profession skill and not a craft skill. A well-made sword is a well-made sword. A sturdy roof is a sturdy roof. On matters of aesthetics however there is too much room for varying opinions to represent it by a Craft skill check, or really any skill check. However Profession could be used to determine that, at least if not everyone loves her work, a writer can still make a living doing it. If you feel a need to represent that sort of thing with skill checks. But to slightly change topic and discuss a pet peeve of mine: I think there's a tendency among some players to want to do rolls for everything. I remember when there was this stupid thing for GURPS to explain sexual interplay between characters. You can't use a dice roll to mimic everything. At some point you just have to use your imagination and make it a point of character instead of skill points. If a player wants his character to be a writer then PRESTO! he's a writer. Is he famous? Is he rich? Well, that's something to be worked out. I just don't think skill points should be used to represent the inconstancy of art. Take Stephen King. I hate his novels. His books are the worst researched things on the planet. He once had a 45-magnum in one of his novels. (Or something equally stupid. I forget the exact caliber of the error.) But you can't deny he's one of the most popular writers of his generation. On the other hand I believe his non-fiction is great and I think he's one of the best short story writers alive. How would you represent that? High scores in Craft (Short Story) and in Craft (Nonfiction) and lower score in Craft (Novel)? But wait! That's just my opinion. What if someone else thinks he's just a wonderful writer of novels and they've never read his nonfiction? How would you represent that variation in someone's tastes? At what point do you draw the line while you're micromanaging life experience into skill points? Basing your character concept entirely on skill points doesn't open up a players ability to develop a character. It puts the character in a box and limits his development to basic mathematics. If a fighter only has enough skill points for things which are useful in-game say, Jump and Climb, then is that it for him? He can only be a jumper and a climber when he's not bashing things with something heavy? I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should play their game. I thought we were just tossing off opinions here. Hell, I'm actually getting off my topic. I will now take my friends advice. :) Not every swordsman will agree that every sword is well crafted. I will take the same advise. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
freebrainzero 07-26-04, 04:35 PM	Originally posted by Red_Decker Not every swordsman will agree that every sword is well crafted. My initial response to this was to simply disagree completely. But it made me wonder so I posed a question to a friend of mine who is somewhat knowledgeable on the subject of swords and their making. But before I get to that I want to say I was speaking in game terms, since these boards are fundamentally about the Game. No one is going to find a Masterwork sword in some treasure and insist on making a roll to determine just how masterwork it is, or say, "No, DM. I don't believe that's a very quality blade at all." Anyway, like I said your response made me pose the following question to my blade-knowledgable friend: I'm curious about something. Would you say that if you had 10 people in a room who knew a lot about swords and they were all considering one well-crafted sword, would all 10 of them have to agree that it was a well-made sword? I mean, I sense that there would be differing opinions on the aesthetics of the blade and the style of craftsmanship, but on the quality of the blade itself how much room is there for opinion in such a consideration? Anyway, I rather liked his reply so I thought I'd include it. I know it's a little off-topic and I apologize if it violates custom in some way. Also, I'm not entirely sure he helped me make my point. But I liked it nontheless. Something about it made me think of message boards. His reply: For the most part, yes, I think so._ However, disagreements occur. Also, when you are talking to modern re-enactors and collectors, price is a factor._ What you hear very, very often in these circles is that a particular sword is "nice for the price."_ Cost and value play a very big part in peoples mind._ Basically, everyone wants to stratify quality. By that I mean, they'll make the distinction that Sword A is_a sturdy piece, servicealbe, armoury grade piece._ Aesthetics aren't important._ What matters is will it cut, hows the balance, is it too heavy, and what's the price?_ If all of these qualities come together, then regardless of type of sword (two-hander, katana, single-hander, bastard sword, whatever) then you'll have 10 people agree that it is a servicable weapon, and each will give you a list of things that could make it better. So then you get into the category of high end weapons, and it is almost impossible to seperate people's opinion on the matter from the aesthetics of the blade._ It begins to be taken for granted that the sword will be able to cut, that balance is good, the weight is right, and the debate centers on such thing as grip material, and you hear such things as "walnut splits too easy," or "some people are allergic to cocobolo," or "wenge is too slick," or "african purpleheart is too dark."_ Or maybe they want a circular pommel over a mushroom shape._ There's always something those 10 people are going to disagree about._ Then if there's nothing else they can say they might say it is too expensive.__But this is people just being people, and I expect it has more to do with them trying to justify why they don't shell out money for something similar, or to mask some kind of jealousy._ But primarily people will acknowledge the quality of a weapon in the same breath they invent an escuse why it isn't "quite right" for them. Now, the people who are really and truly knowledgable about swords tend to do this sort of the thing less than others._ You can tell the difference, someone who has a casual interest will pick up a sword and swing it a time or two and comment on how it feels._ A more knowledgable person will look at the pommel and grip, note how the guard fits onto the blade, whap the hilt with palm of hand and look at the blade motion and flex (what's called harmonics in blades, but this is a modern term, in the old days they would just test for flex)._ 10 educated people could each try their hand at a well crafted sword and each come to the conclusion that it was made with skill but they still may have a few minor things that would "make it better."_ It's important to keep in mind that almost all of those little things are subjective._ That's why some people prefer a katana over bastard sword or_a single-hander over a two-hander._ I, myself, have picked up and held swords that were very nice on one level and yet didn't move me on a subjective level._ It may be a quality piece, but just not my style.
Red_Decker 07-26-04, 06:29 PM	Sounds an awful lot like writing to me. For instance you don't like Steven King, I like his work but it's not my favorite. But still can admire the quality and enjoy his books just the same. Basically think of his work as a weapon you either don't like or can't use. Same thing. Actually I can think of a few times when written work has been included in treasure in both adventures and in video games. I stand by my view that writing is indeed a craft just the same as blacksmithing. If the consumer doesn't like the product they aren't going to buy. If I were to DM I would say Journalism is a profession check that can get synergy bonuses from the skills mentioned earlier. Novelists, poets, and other writers a craft check. My baisis behind this. Journalists tend to have a job with a publisher. Novelists tend to do more frrelance work hoping to find a publisher that likes their work enough to publish it. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt