Eberron not a Medieval Setting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron not a Medieval Setting? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Charles Phipps
11-08-05, 07:28 PM It occurs to me that Keith Baker has been hinting at a world that I haven't honestly been thinking about. Eberron as commonly interpretated by me was a Medieval world while occasionally I'd indulge in the idea that Eberron was a world of Magicpunk. Recently, I played a game of Eberron where the DM presented an entirely different take on the setting that I found interesting enough to share.

He called it Eberron Champloo.

Basically, his opinion was that Eberron's "Standard Medieval Setting" was in Sarlona with the nations of it (before the Quori). The immigration of all the colonists were relatively recent it occurs to me and while we have Karrnath and the other Nations as the main avatars of "how people behave" but it doesn't necessarily describe a huge and wild cultural/trade diversity that might allow any number of professions in a weird shmorgasboard of ideas.

My friend's presentation was to essentially take the idea of (instead of inserting them in Sarlona like so many people do) that Keith proposed of things like samurai and ninja in the 'Western' nations of Khovaire and as a relic of a culture that no one really remembers and is a part of a mish-mash civilization that was founded by the settlers from Sarlona.

This cosmopolitian depiction of Eberron is something that interested me and sort of reminded me of Bladerunner's Los Angeles. I thought about things to insert into a player's entry into Sharn...

* Samurai as fighter variants
* Monks as genuine Shaolin types
* Artificers as Pulp Scientists and Victorian Mad Scientists
* Sharn Goblins music is similiar to rap.

Basically taking the best "mish mash" of Shadowrun elements except wheel it back to the more Fantasy than Cyberpunk.
Psionycx
11-08-05, 08:15 PM That works.

Eberron is meant to be more like an action/adventure film than like Lord of the Rings. Other than the fact that most of the gadgetry is magical, it can easily be played that way as designed.

I like to think of it as culture clash. One of my favorite pieces of Eberron artwork is the "robotic" army of warforged facing off against an army of undead. It's almost like a clash between genres, with technomagical fantasy squaring off against traditional fantasy.

Into this you can toss almost any cultural element to get the right feel.
Euangelion
11-09-05, 12:20 PM The feel of the setting has always reminded me more of the 1920s and '30s (worldwide) than just medieval Europe. About the only thing that cries "Medieval!" to me in the setting are the arms and armor.
Uller999
11-09-05, 12:33 PM I agree with the setting assesment, Eberron isn't really a midevil world. The cultures of the world kinda remind of me of Firefly in a way (I know that sounds crack-pottish but stay with me).

Firelfy is a hybridization of two genres, the wester and the space/scifi drama. The world in which things take place has horses and cattle and spaceships and hoversleds. People wield laser guns but will still stitch up a would with needle and thread.

Eberron works similarly. There is magic everywhere such that it has become technology. Androids made of stone wood and precious metals wield swords against teched up artificer wield a wand of infinate magic missiles (its like a pistol that never misses). The countries in the world are all more or less leaving behind strict feudalism and expanding into more mercantilist, capitalist roots; this is something made more prevalent by the existance of extra-national corporation which is something that world didn't really have till the last hundred years or so. There are trains and means of air conveyance but right alongside powerful shamanistic magic and dinosaurs and whatever. There still is that fantasy Tolkienesque element to it but really Eberron strikes me as being as much Renaissance sci/fi as it does classic fantasy
jonthegm
11-09-05, 12:42 PM Eberron, as has been said in the Magic of Eberron book is a "Post-Medival setting"
Uller999
11-09-05, 09:32 PM which could mean a lot of things
PsionicMonk
11-09-05, 11:00 PM IMO, Eberron is more of a post-medival industrial revolution, without the 200+ years in between them.
Papa_duval
11-10-05, 04:23 AM Its a renaissance setting, where wonders are created by individuals or small groups of people.

Mass production hasn't come into place yet, everything is made individually. But individuals are capable of making some wonderous things.
Euangelion
11-10-05, 11:44 AM Its a renaissance setting, where wonders are created by individuals or small groups of people.

Mass production hasn't come into place yet, everything is made individually. But individuals are capable of making some wonderous things.

I disagree. Cannith does engage in mass production, using schemas of one kind or another. The warforged are a perfect example of this. They were not produced in individual workshops one by one, but in great quantities in short amounts of time.
Other things are mass produced, such as armor and weapons in Breland. They are not as high quality as you might find in an dwarven smithy in the Mror Holds, but are cheaper by virtue of their mass production.
The Korranberg Chronicle is also mass-produced. Twice a week thousands of copies of each issue is sent across Khorvaire. These are just some of examples of things that are mass-produces in Eberron.
Chiyo
11-10-05, 02:41 PM Printed press is a renaissance times thing actually (15th century in Europe, 11th century in China).

As for mass production of weapons and armors, I don't know if there is information on that. Besides, the level of technology required for the martial weapons available doesn't require automation to produce in large numbers fairly quickly, just a good foundry+cast molding design.

As for warforged, I'm not sure what kind of numbers were produced (somehow I'm not picturing attack of the clones/federation kind of armies) but to decide on mass production techniques or not, you'd have to identify how many people worked on it. The Great Wall is one of the largest architectural projects ever. Yet, technology level used for it was pretty low. If the creation forge using schema and patterns depicted in the Grasp of the Emerald Claw module gives any indication, it doesn't seem suited for mass production however. Same for the Cannith facility described in Shadows of the Last War.

Personally, I think Rennaissance with magic involved sounds like a decent enough fit for my campaign. But either way, it sure is not medieval.
zambuka
11-10-05, 06:46 PM I would say, with the burgeoning industrialisation of production, that the setting has a more Victorian/Edwardian feel to it. 1800s to early 1900s

The everbright lanterns are the equivalent of gas lamps, the lightning rail is obvious and the sivis message stations are the telegraphs.

Find and read The Paganinicon by Phillip K. Dick (I think) for some great ideas for 'forged and an interesting take on what an eldritch device could be.
Uller999
11-10-05, 09:32 PM I would say, with the burgeoning industrialisation of production, that the setting has a more Victorian/Edwardian feel to it. 1800s to early 1900s

The everbright lanterns are the equivalent of gas lamps, the lightning rail is obvious and the sivis message stations are the telegraphs.

Find and read The Paganinicon by Phillip K. Dick (I think) for some great ideas for 'forged and an interesting take on what an eldritch device could be.

I'd agree with this analysis. The technological conveniances that lay in the heart of most of the 5 nations (well discountring Cyre obviously) is indicative of a tech level around the 1800s. Of course the means by which that tech was delivered is differnt and so I like the idea of purile tech things not comming to the fore when already existant technology is better than them. Why do you need a pistol if a crossbow can do comparable damage and a wand of fireball blows it out of the water. What's really the difference as far as use between a magical ballistae (as seen in Heroes of Battle) or a 16 pound cannon? I don't see much of a difference and I would think that with prevalence of magic, Eberronians would be more inclined to produce the ballistae than a whole new technology base.
PsionicMonk
11-11-05, 01:52 AM *crosses fingers in hope of this not turning into a firearms in eberron thread*

I agree more of a renaissance setting.
KhorvaireChronicler
11-11-05, 07:40 AM I don't know how many of you out there would have played the Fading Suns RPG? In that you had the fantastic wonders of space travel, lasers, and hover bikes combined with crossbow wielding guards, swashbucklers, and psionic wielding terrorists. I loved this setting until they converted it into D20 rules (it lost it's flavour, like so many other games that got converted...I'm not going to preach!).

Anyhow, I see Eberron in the same vein. You have the wonders of the victorian age in the form of everbright lanterns and the lightning rail which the average city dwellers have access to. Meanwhile the lands are still savage and untaimed in places, with farmholds relying on the power of beast and man to survive. The dragonmarked house (insert corporations) and the aurum enable Shadowrun style and intrigue to the world and with Warforged and particularly the renegade mastermaker their is the injection of cyberpunk. I agree with all of the above comments, particularly the points about use of medieval seige engines enhanced by magic, and in fact prefer the idea of a dual wielding wand master acting like the sheriff in a typical western.

On a more personal level is the information on the five nations, and I may be reading too much into little bits but it's the way I've run Eberron. Breland strikes me as an industrial era England with the monarch and parlimentary backbenchers quabbling on the future of the economy and direction of the country, all the while with a militant terrorist group trying to overthrow the monarch (insert IRA - not literally I know but the concept is similar). Sharn is London in it's cultural diversity, architectural achievements and sprawling masses of inhabitants. Meanwhile, Aundair is akin to France during the Renaisance even down the the style of dress and cuisine. Karrnath resembles an amalgamum of the eastern european countries, while Thrane is Rome and nothern Italy. I see Cyre as being a depiction of the USA before it was destroyed and became the mournland. Q'barra is South America, and I think Colombia and the Congo when I run things there. The Talenta Plains are the Sinai Pinnicular and Egypt, The Mror Holds remind me of Switzerland and Austria, The Lhazzar Prinicipalities are the Carribean crossed with Thailand and Malaysia. The Shadow Marches could be large swaths of southern China, with Droam being like Mongolia and Eastern Russia. The Eldeen Reaches are medieval Germany and Romania, while the lands of Valenar are like the middle east and resemble the old Almohad Empire. Now I could be really off the mark from other people's interpretations and in a way I hope I am. I like to pull things from the real world in terms of the landscape, styles of dress, customs and cuisine when I run a game then the way 5N was written, and the excerts from all the other books I can't get these analogies out of my head now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 11-08-05, 07:28 PM	It occurs to me that Keith Baker has been hinting at a world that I haven't honestly been thinking about. Eberron as commonly interpretated by me was a Medieval world while occasionally I'd indulge in the idea that Eberron was a world of Magicpunk. Recently, I played a game of Eberron where the DM presented an entirely different take on the setting that I found interesting enough to share. He called it Eberron Champloo. Basically, his opinion was that Eberron's "Standard Medieval Setting" was in Sarlona with the nations of it (before the Quori). The immigration of all the colonists were relatively recent it occurs to me and while we have Karrnath and the other Nations as the main avatars of "how people behave" but it doesn't necessarily describe a huge and wild cultural/trade diversity that might allow any number of professions in a weird shmorgasboard of ideas. My friend's presentation was to essentially take the idea of (instead of inserting them in Sarlona like so many people do) that Keith proposed of things like samurai and ninja in the 'Western' nations of Khovaire and as a relic of a culture that no one really remembers and is a part of a mish-mash civilization that was founded by the settlers from Sarlona. This cosmopolitian depiction of Eberron is something that interested me and sort of reminded me of Bladerunner's Los Angeles. I thought about things to insert into a player's entry into Sharn... * Samurai as fighter variants * Monks as genuine Shaolin types * Artificers as Pulp Scientists and Victorian Mad Scientists * Sharn Goblins music is similiar to rap. Basically taking the best "mish mash" of Shadowrun elements except wheel it back to the more Fantasy than Cyberpunk.
Psionycx 11-08-05, 08:15 PM	That works. Eberron is meant to be more like an action/adventure film than like Lord of the Rings. Other than the fact that most of the gadgetry is magical, it can easily be played that way as designed. I like to think of it as culture clash. One of my favorite pieces of Eberron artwork is the "robotic" army of warforged facing off against an army of undead. It's almost like a clash between genres, with technomagical fantasy squaring off against traditional fantasy. Into this you can toss almost any cultural element to get the right feel.
Euangelion 11-09-05, 12:20 PM	The feel of the setting has always reminded me more of the 1920s and '30s (worldwide) than just medieval Europe. About the only thing that cries "Medieval!" to me in the setting are the arms and armor.
Uller999 11-09-05, 12:33 PM	I agree with the setting assesment, Eberron isn't really a midevil world. The cultures of the world kinda remind of me of Firefly in a way (I know that sounds crack-pottish but stay with me). Firelfy is a hybridization of two genres, the wester and the space/scifi drama. The world in which things take place has horses and cattle and spaceships and hoversleds. People wield laser guns but will still stitch up a would with needle and thread. Eberron works similarly. There is magic everywhere such that it has become technology. Androids made of stone wood and precious metals wield swords against teched up artificer wield a wand of infinate magic missiles (its like a pistol that never misses). The countries in the world are all more or less leaving behind strict feudalism and expanding into more mercantilist, capitalist roots; this is something made more prevalent by the existance of extra-national corporation which is something that world didn't really have till the last hundred years or so. There are trains and means of air conveyance but right alongside powerful shamanistic magic and dinosaurs and whatever. There still is that fantasy Tolkienesque element to it but really Eberron strikes me as being as much Renaissance sci/fi as it does classic fantasy
jonthegm 11-09-05, 12:42 PM	Eberron, as has been said in the Magic of Eberron book is a "Post-Medival setting"
Uller999 11-09-05, 09:32 PM	which could mean a lot of things
PsionicMonk 11-09-05, 11:00 PM	IMO, Eberron is more of a post-medival industrial revolution, without the 200+ years in between them.
Papa_duval 11-10-05, 04:23 AM	Its a renaissance setting, where wonders are created by individuals or small groups of people. Mass production hasn't come into place yet, everything is made individually. But individuals are capable of making some wonderous things.
Euangelion 11-10-05, 11:44 AM	Its a renaissance setting, where wonders are created by individuals or small groups of people. Mass production hasn't come into place yet, everything is made individually. But individuals are capable of making some wonderous things. I disagree. Cannith does engage in mass production, using schemas of one kind or another. The warforged are a perfect example of this. They were not produced in individual workshops one by one, but in great quantities in short amounts of time. Other things are mass produced, such as armor and weapons in Breland. They are not as high quality as you might find in an dwarven smithy in the Mror Holds, but are cheaper by virtue of their mass production. The Korranberg Chronicle is also mass-produced. Twice a week thousands of copies of each issue is sent across Khorvaire. These are just some of examples of things that are mass-produces in Eberron.
Chiyo 11-10-05, 02:41 PM	Printed press is a renaissance times thing actually (15th century in Europe, 11th century in China). As for mass production of weapons and armors, I don't know if there is information on that. Besides, the level of technology required for the martial weapons available doesn't require automation to produce in large numbers fairly quickly, just a good foundry+cast molding design. As for warforged, I'm not sure what kind of numbers were produced (somehow I'm not picturing attack of the clones/federation kind of armies) but to decide on mass production techniques or not, you'd have to identify how many people worked on it. The Great Wall is one of the largest architectural projects ever. Yet, technology level used for it was pretty low. If the creation forge using schema and patterns depicted in the Grasp of the Emerald Claw module gives any indication, it doesn't seem suited for mass production however. Same for the Cannith facility described in Shadows of the Last War. Personally, I think Rennaissance with magic involved sounds like a decent enough fit for my campaign. But either way, it sure is not medieval.
zambuka 11-10-05, 06:46 PM	I would say, with the burgeoning industrialisation of production, that the setting has a more Victorian/Edwardian feel to it. 1800s to early 1900s The everbright lanterns are the equivalent of gas lamps, the lightning rail is obvious and the sivis message stations are the telegraphs. Find and read The Paganinicon by Phillip K. Dick (I think) for some great ideas for 'forged and an interesting take on what an eldritch device could be.
Uller999 11-10-05, 09:32 PM	I would say, with the burgeoning industrialisation of production, that the setting has a more Victorian/Edwardian feel to it. 1800s to early 1900s The everbright lanterns are the equivalent of gas lamps, the lightning rail is obvious and the sivis message stations are the telegraphs. Find and read The Paganinicon by Phillip K. Dick (I think) for some great ideas for 'forged and an interesting take on what an eldritch device could be. I'd agree with this analysis. The technological conveniances that lay in the heart of most of the 5 nations (well discountring Cyre obviously) is indicative of a tech level around the 1800s. Of course the means by which that tech was delivered is differnt and so I like the idea of purile tech things not comming to the fore when already existant technology is better than them. Why do you need a pistol if a crossbow can do comparable damage and a wand of fireball blows it out of the water. What's really the difference as far as use between a magical ballistae (as seen in Heroes of Battle) or a 16 pound cannon? I don't see much of a difference and I would think that with prevalence of magic, Eberronians would be more inclined to produce the ballistae than a whole new technology base.
PsionicMonk 11-11-05, 01:52 AM	crosses fingers in hope of this not turning into a firearms in eberron thread I agree more of a renaissance setting.
KhorvaireChronicler 11-11-05, 07:40 AM	I don't know how many of you out there would have played the Fading Suns RPG? In that you had the fantastic wonders of space travel, lasers, and hover bikes combined with crossbow wielding guards, swashbucklers, and psionic wielding terrorists. I loved this setting until they converted it into D20 rules (it lost it's flavour, like so many other games that got converted...I'm not going to preach!). Anyhow, I see Eberron in the same vein. You have the wonders of the victorian age in the form of everbright lanterns and the lightning rail which the average city dwellers have access to. Meanwhile the lands are still savage and untaimed in places, with farmholds relying on the power of beast and man to survive. The dragonmarked house (insert corporations) and the aurum enable Shadowrun style and intrigue to the world and with Warforged and particularly the renegade mastermaker their is the injection of cyberpunk. I agree with all of the above comments, particularly the points about use of medieval seige engines enhanced by magic, and in fact prefer the idea of a dual wielding wand master acting like the sheriff in a typical western. On a more personal level is the information on the five nations, and I may be reading too much into little bits but it's the way I've run Eberron. Breland strikes me as an industrial era England with the monarch and parlimentary backbenchers quabbling on the future of the economy and direction of the country, all the while with a militant terrorist group trying to overthrow the monarch (insert IRA - not literally I know but the concept is similar). Sharn is London in it's cultural diversity, architectural achievements and sprawling masses of inhabitants. Meanwhile, Aundair is akin to France during the Renaisance even down the the style of dress and cuisine. Karrnath resembles an amalgamum of the eastern european countries, while Thrane is Rome and nothern Italy. I see Cyre as being a depiction of the USA before it was destroyed and became the mournland. Q'barra is South America, and I think Colombia and the Congo when I run things there. The Talenta Plains are the Sinai Pinnicular and Egypt, The Mror Holds remind me of Switzerland and Austria, The Lhazzar Prinicipalities are the Carribean crossed with Thailand and Malaysia. The Shadow Marches could be large swaths of southern China, with Droam being like Mongolia and Eastern Russia. The Eldeen Reaches are medieval Germany and Romania, while the lands of Valenar are like the middle east and resemble the old Almohad Empire. Now I could be really off the mark from other people's interpretations and in a way I hope I am. I like to pull things from the real world in terms of the landscape, styles of dress, customs and cuisine when I run a game then the way 5N was written, and the excerts from all the other books I can't get these analogies out of my head now.