Eberron Power Crawl [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron Power Crawl [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zedium
07-06-05, 02:58 AM As many of you probably have done, I read the exerpt from Five Nations and was stunned. According to the Phantom Knight entry, there are basically 400 at least 7th level characters on the loose. What happened to Eberron being a low level setting?

Other examples are the levels of the leaders of Aundair, once again people are starting to believe that low level characters can't lead a nation. Is it me, or are we facing a slow increase in levels in Eberron? Do we have to fear Eberron ending up as another FR where everyone and their uncle is level 20 at least?
aelryinth
07-06-05, 03:13 AM 400 level 7 people in nations with populations of millions?

Good lord, there's probably 4000 level 7 people just in Waterdeep.

The flaming fist had 2000 level 4 FIGHTERS as mainline troops...just in one city.

Those are the best and finest troops of an entire nation.

Read the Sharn book about the REdcloaks. Most of them are 6+...but most of those levels are still WARRIOR levels. Even the spellcasters are mostly adepts.

==Aelryinth
Slayen
07-06-05, 03:21 AM It says that Knight Phantoms used to be able to field nearly 400 knights during the last war and that now (due to deaths, retirements or member on long term leave), that they are down to only 150 strong.

Anyways, always keep in mind that the Valenar are probably capable of fielding ten times this number of equal skill.
The Dreaming Duck
07-06-05, 09:40 AM I'm with Slayen and especially Aelryinth. Saying that the ELITE force of a nation is around 7th level is pretty tame, compared to FR. Sharn has already shown that Breland's elite force is around a match for this. The issue is that these are the best the nation has to offer - and MOST of the army is 1st-3rd level. When you run into the Knight Phantom, you should treat him with respect as one of the greatest soldiers of your land, and not just say "7th level? So basically, you're a member of the City Watch?"

I think a FAR better example of power crawl was the Sharn Web Enhancment, which suggested that Lyrandar Tower had a company of 50 5th-level wizards, fighters, and clerics just standing around the landing pad acting as guards. That was written by an author who'd only done work on FR, and as I recall, Hellcow jumped in and said such a high concentration of PC-classed 5th level characters as guards was inappropriate. But as the top force of a nation... and especially a nation which we've been told has to rely on magical might over pure numbers? I think it's fine. If they'd said there were thousands of them, it would be different. But a few hundred? That's restrained, compared to that web enhancement.
Ashrem Bayle
07-06-05, 10:06 AM From what I can tell, Eberron's character levels are set up something like this:

1st Level - The Common Folk (80% of the population)

2-3 Level - The Skilled Folk (19% of the population)

4-6 Level - Exceptionally Skilled (These people are some of the best, making up slightly less than 1% of the population)

7th Level - The Best of the Best (This is the upper level limit you'll usually encounter. Characters of 7th level are bordering on legendary.)

8th-10th Level - Legends Among Us (These characters are VERY rare and represent the pinnacle of what most people could ever hope to accomplish.)

11th-20th Level - Gods Among Us (These characters represent the pinnacle of their race. Worshipped or feared by those who are aware of them, these characters are literally the one in a million who have transcended to the realm of legend. Those in the public eye are worshipped or feared for hundreds of miles. Bards tell their tales, and hundreds of people seek their guidance or aid. These are Eberron's rock stars and professional athletes.)
Bluebrush
07-06-05, 10:54 AM It says that Knight Phantoms used to be able to field nearly 400 knights during the last war and that now (due to deaths, retirements or member on long term leave), that they are down to only 150 strong.

Also note this fits in with the whole "The heroes of the last war are dead, and now new champions must rise up and stand against the dark/daelkyr/Darguuls" thing.

150 people isn't too big a deal. If you think it's too powerful, adjust it down for your game or say that some of them are "Lesser" Phantoms (Ftr1/Wiz3) in training. You could even say that a lot of them only have a warrior level rather than a fighter level.
Brastan
07-06-05, 11:14 AM As many of you probably have done, I read the exerpt from Five Nations and was stunned. According to the Phantom Knight entry, there are basically 400 at least 7th level characters on the loose. What happened to Eberron being a low level setting?

I'm sorry I fail to be shacked at this. I have tried to correct this misconception about Eberron ever chance I get. It is not a low level setting. It is low help level setting. These 7th level characters probably won't lift a finger to help the rest of the world. The are not NPC Heros they are bystanders. Only the PCs act, only the PCs attract the biggest and baddest, and only the PCs are Heros! There is on one else to turn to if things go wrong. A better way to think of it is that Eberron is static until the PCs & DM change something or interact with it. That is why high level NPCs don't try to take over the world with out the PCs there to oppose them.

Enemies can be Epic(level) if the must be. Even the dragons, who are very high level, won't help the Heros directly. They probably won't even point them in the right direction. I will read the article and post again with my thoughts on it. But this idea that the setting is low level exclusive setting must stop.
Sithis
07-06-05, 11:55 AM These 7th level characters probably won't lift a finger to help the rest of the world. The are not NPC Heros they are bystanders.
These are the heroic protectors of a nation, designed to go quickly to where there is trouble and deal with it. If a plot threatened Aundair, you can bet that at least the idea of sending Knights Phantom to handle it has crossed the leadership's mind.

I don't particularly see a problem with the heroes of a nation being 150-400 in number and 7th+ level though.
Brastan
07-06-05, 12:25 PM These are the heroic protectors of a nation.
Okay, yes I may have over stated the bystander bit. I spoke of the PCs as heros because they are the focus of any adventure. I guess protagonist would have been the better choice. Even the heroic Knight Phantom are still supporting cast and won't be of much help unless the PCs get them involved. That could be as simple as alerting them to a possible invasion or as complex as getting an audience with Queen Aurala and makeing her to "helpful."
Northwest
07-06-05, 12:34 PM The knight in training idea works out well too. Especially given the example in the web article about summoning multiple mounts for the party. Say 50 members of the prestige class could supplement their numbers with mabye 2 extra regular troups each.
DoveArrow
07-06-05, 01:23 PM It is not a low level setting. It is low help level setting.

That's not quite accurate, but it's close. The Campaign Setting doesn't say that the NPCs are unwilling to help. What it states (and I don't remember where it states this because I don't have the book right in front of me) is that because of the Last War, there are few high level NPCs, like Elminster, left in the world to help bail the PCs out of a scrape once they reach something like 10th level. Meanwhile, City of Towers states that while NPCs in Sharn may be willing to help the PCs in the upper districts, they aren't likely to enter areas like the Cogs because they're extremely dangerous and the activity there is not often an immediate threat to the better parts of the city.

Finally, in regards to level creep in Eberron, I would say that you should expect it to happen. The Last War is over now, and while adventuring is dangerous, every day is not a constant threat to a person's existence like it is in war. So, as the years progress in Eberron, I expect you'll see more and more adventurers approaching 10th level, maybe even surpassing 10th level.
Zalaz Mavi
07-06-05, 01:58 PM What happened to Eberron being a low level setting?

You have to take the unit in context. Aundair has a smallish army, and therefore relies heavily on elite units. Compare that against the army of Breland which is very large and composed mainly of civilian-soliders. Further, how are the Knights different than the undead fielded by the Karrnath? Those skeletons and zombies are certainly tougher than the average 2nd level NPC — and also fielded by a nation with a smallish population. In short, taken against the whole, they fit right in, as far as I'm concerned...
Edymnion
07-06-05, 05:53 PM I think a FAR better example of power crawl was the Sharn Web Enhancment, which suggested that Lyrandar Tower had a company of 50 5th-level wizards, fighters, and clerics just standing around the landing pad acting as guards. That was written by an author who'd only done work on FR, and as I recall, Hellcow jumped in and said such a high concentration of PC-classed 5th level characters as guards was inappropriate. Yeah, the author of that particular article came on the boards and basically apologized for screwing up. He was a FR writer, and WotC basically told him "Here, write an Eberron article, its due next week". He did the best he could with the time and materials he had available, and just didn't know about the low level stuff.

He was a cool guy. Willing to admit he screwed up instead of backpeddling or trying to explain it away and save face. I wonder what ever happened to him?
Zalaz Mavi
07-06-05, 06:06 PM I wonder what ever happened to him?

Drader? He wrote parts of d20 Apocalypse and has been answering questions over on those boards...
MysticTheurge
07-06-05, 11:49 PM I think this is something we're going to continue to run into. There's basically one inescapible problem that's going to cause level creep. People want cool Eberron prestige classes. The cool PrCs are going to have requirements that force those entering them to be of a significant level. There are going to be NPCs who have levels in those PrCs, therefore you're going to see "high" level NPCs. There's really not a way to avoid it without either A) having only low-level prestige classes or B) having prestige classes that no one's actually in yet (until the PCs take them). Neither of those things really make any sense.
Edymnion
07-06-05, 11:55 PM There's really not a way to avoid it without either A) having only low-level prestige classes or B) having prestige classes that no one's actually in yet (until the PCs take them). Neither of those things really make any sense.Eh, why not?
PrC stopped being prestigeous and turned into nothing more than glorified 2e kits long ago. Why not just make low level PrC?

Which, actually, could be perfectly in line with the original intention of PrC, to be a campaign specific worldbuilding tool for the DM. The city watch could have it's own PrC, for example. It would make sense too. Entrants would need to have a level of combat ability (say a +1 or +2 BAB), a bit of knowledge of what is legal and what isn't (Knowledge[Law] 2-4 ranks), and let it be a 3-5 level uPrC (unPrestigeous Class).
MysticTheurge
07-07-05, 12:13 AM Eh, why not?
PrC stopped being prestigeous and turned into nothing more than glorified 2e kits long ago. Why not just make low level PrC?

I'm not suggesting that there never be low level prestige classes, simply that there shouldn't be only low level prestige classes. People want cool things from their prestige classes and you should be able to get cool things for your PCs. For that to happen there need to be ten level prestige classes and those are going to have solid entry requirements. And that means you're going to end up with some (or a bunch of) NPCs who are in the 7th-10th range.

Sure you can design some prestige classes that are enterable using NPC classes, and sure you can design some that are low level prestige classes that are 3-5 levels in length, but they can't all be that way. So we're going to end up with NPCs with a decent amount of character class levels. I think several other people on this board have made good points about why that's an ok thing. And I certainly think the game designers should keep moderation in mind when doing it. But, personally, I don't want to see nothing but three level prestige classes for Eberron.
ryanroyce
07-07-05, 12:52 AM One way to handle the matter is to have the sample NPC of any given prestige class be written as an antagonist for the PCs. That's entirely up to the writer of the PrC, however.

Ryan
Araciss
07-07-05, 05:29 AM As some have said, a number of the Knight Phantoms might be lower level (1warrior/wiz3 =CR3), as the order might have accepted lesser skilled people as Knight Phantoms due to the deaths and retairments of former Phantoms.
Or you *could* (not a good idea, but you could) make a spell named lesser phantom steed, a 1st level spell on the adept list... thus making really low-levelled Knight Phantoms - and making the PC's in the order special, as they are the only ones who manage to learn the old skills of the Knight Phantoms.
Only a couple of (bad) ideas... but i don't want Eberron to end up like Faerun.
DavidB
07-07-05, 07:24 AM How is "low level setting" defined? What does it mean?

If we just look at Aundair. If there are 1000 people 5th level or higher, that still only comes out to 0.05% of the population.

I just do not see what the issue is, other than someone wanting their Character to be Gods with the posibility of running everything.
Zedium
07-07-05, 07:44 AM True on the prc, all very nice comments in here, indeed I like the idea of there being a few lower level Knight Phantoms.

On the other hand though, it seems the NPC are also growing in power though.
Afterall, one of the leaders of Aundair is a level 12, pretty powerful stuff, and Adal was upgraded from a LN Fighter 3/Wizard 3 to a NE Fighter 2/Wizard 8. I don't know if this was intentional, but slowely we seem to be gaining powerful characters as leaders, while Eberron introduced the idea of someone not having to be high level to rule.
Brastan
07-07-05, 11:25 AM one of the leaders of Aundair is a level 12, pretty powerful stuff, and Adal was upgraded from a LN Fighter 3/Wizard 3 to a NE Fighter 2/Wizard 8. I don't know if this was intentional, but slowely we seem to be gaining powerful characters as leaders, while Eberron introduced the idea of someone not having to be high level to rule.

I believe it is intentional. As has been said NPCs in Eberron are alterable. If you don't like how they appear in one place you can use a different source. If you still are unhappy with their setup you can just rewrite their stats as you wish. The Lord of Blades is the best example of this. There is/was a whole discussions on who the Lord of Blades is in People and Places.

How you explain the shift in alignment and classes? He died, was resurrected (level loss) and studied more as a wizard. This is clearly a higher stat level for a higher level PC party. I say use both sets if you like.
Siran Dunmorgan
07-07-05, 11:43 AM He died, was resurrected (level loss) and studied more as a wizard. This is clearly a higher stat level for a higher level PC party. I say use both sets if you like.

Hmm… I just assumed he was possessed by a fiend with a penchant for magic and an axe to grind against the Silver Flame.

With his former stats, he figures highly in my upcoming 'Arcane Congress' campaign.

—Siran Dunmorgan
greatfrito
07-07-05, 07:02 PM Hmm... perhaps not all of the Phantom Knights need be in the Prestige class yet? For organizational NPC's, rarely do they -have- to have the appropriate Prestige Class. So having a big group of Wiz X/Ftr Y (where X+Y < 4) characters that make up the elite Aundairian forces wouldn't be too big of a deal.

Only the best of the best (the TRULY elite; far better than their fellow knights) would gain access to the Prestige class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zedium 07-06-05, 02:58 AM	As many of you probably have done, I read the exerpt from Five Nations and was stunned. According to the Phantom Knight entry, there are basically 400 at least 7th level characters on the loose. What happened to Eberron being a low level setting? Other examples are the levels of the leaders of Aundair, once again people are starting to believe that low level characters can't lead a nation. Is it me, or are we facing a slow increase in levels in Eberron? Do we have to fear Eberron ending up as another FR where everyone and their uncle is level 20 at least?
aelryinth 07-06-05, 03:13 AM	400 level 7 people in nations with populations of millions? Good lord, there's probably 4000 level 7 people just in Waterdeep. The flaming fist had 2000 level 4 FIGHTERS as mainline troops...just in one city. Those are the best and finest troops of an entire nation. Read the Sharn book about the REdcloaks. Most of them are 6+...but most of those levels are still WARRIOR levels. Even the spellcasters are mostly adepts. ==Aelryinth
Slayen 07-06-05, 03:21 AM	It says that Knight Phantoms used to be able to field nearly 400 knights during the last war and that now (due to deaths, retirements or member on long term leave), that they are down to only 150 strong. Anyways, always keep in mind that the Valenar are probably capable of fielding ten times this number of equal skill.
The Dreaming Duck 07-06-05, 09:40 AM	I'm with Slayen and especially Aelryinth. Saying that the ELITE force of a nation is around 7th level is pretty tame, compared to FR. Sharn has already shown that Breland's elite force is around a match for this. The issue is that these are the best the nation has to offer - and MOST of the army is 1st-3rd level. When you run into the Knight Phantom, you should treat him with respect as one of the greatest soldiers of your land, and not just say "7th level? So basically, you're a member of the City Watch?" I think a FAR better example of power crawl was the Sharn Web Enhancment, which suggested that Lyrandar Tower had a company of 50 5th-level wizards, fighters, and clerics just standing around the landing pad acting as guards. That was written by an author who'd only done work on FR, and as I recall, Hellcow jumped in and said such a high concentration of PC-classed 5th level characters as guards was inappropriate. But as the top force of a nation... and especially a nation which we've been told has to rely on magical might over pure numbers? I think it's fine. If they'd said there were thousands of them, it would be different. But a few hundred? That's restrained, compared to that web enhancement.
Ashrem Bayle 07-06-05, 10:06 AM	From what I can tell, Eberron's character levels are set up something like this: 1st Level - The Common Folk (80% of the population) 2-3 Level - The Skilled Folk (19% of the population) 4-6 Level - Exceptionally Skilled (These people are some of the best, making up slightly less than 1% of the population) 7th Level - The Best of the Best (This is the upper level limit you'll usually encounter. Characters of 7th level are bordering on legendary.) 8th-10th Level - Legends Among Us (These characters are VERY rare and represent the pinnacle of what most people could ever hope to accomplish.) 11th-20th Level - Gods Among Us (These characters represent the pinnacle of their race. Worshipped or feared by those who are aware of them, these characters are literally the one in a million who have transcended to the realm of legend. Those in the public eye are worshipped or feared for hundreds of miles. Bards tell their tales, and hundreds of people seek their guidance or aid. These are Eberron's rock stars and professional athletes.)
Bluebrush 07-06-05, 10:54 AM	It says that Knight Phantoms used to be able to field nearly 400 knights during the last war and that now (due to deaths, retirements or member on long term leave), that they are down to only 150 strong. Also note this fits in with the whole "The heroes of the last war are dead, and now new champions must rise up and stand against the dark/daelkyr/Darguuls" thing. 150 people isn't too big a deal. If you think it's too powerful, adjust it down for your game or say that some of them are "Lesser" Phantoms (Ftr1/Wiz3) in training. You could even say that a lot of them only have a warrior level rather than a fighter level.
Brastan 07-06-05, 11:14 AM	As many of you probably have done, I read the exerpt from Five Nations and was stunned. According to the Phantom Knight entry, there are basically 400 at least 7th level characters on the loose. What happened to Eberron being a low level setting? I'm sorry I fail to be shacked at this. I have tried to correct this misconception about Eberron ever chance I get. It is not a low level setting. It is low help level setting. These 7th level characters probably won't lift a finger to help the rest of the world. The are not NPC Heros they are bystanders. Only the PCs act, only the PCs attract the biggest and baddest, and only the PCs are Heros! There is on one else to turn to if things go wrong. A better way to think of it is that Eberron is static until the PCs & DM change something or interact with it. That is why high level NPCs don't try to take over the world with out the PCs there to oppose them. Enemies can be Epic(level) if the must be. Even the dragons, who are very high level, won't help the Heros directly. They probably won't even point them in the right direction. I will read the article and post again with my thoughts on it. But this idea that the setting is low level exclusive setting must stop.
Sithis 07-06-05, 11:55 AM	These 7th level characters probably won't lift a finger to help the rest of the world. The are not NPC Heros they are bystanders. These are the heroic protectors of a nation, designed to go quickly to where there is trouble and deal with it. If a plot threatened Aundair, you can bet that at least the idea of sending Knights Phantom to handle it has crossed the leadership's mind. I don't particularly see a problem with the heroes of a nation being 150-400 in number and 7th+ level though.
Brastan 07-06-05, 12:25 PM	These are the heroic protectors of a nation. Okay, yes I may have over stated the bystander bit. I spoke of the PCs as heros because they are the focus of any adventure. I guess protagonist would have been the better choice. Even the heroic Knight Phantom are still supporting cast and won't be of much help unless the PCs get them involved. That could be as simple as alerting them to a possible invasion or as complex as getting an audience with Queen Aurala and makeing her to "helpful."
Northwest 07-06-05, 12:34 PM	The knight in training idea works out well too. Especially given the example in the web article about summoning multiple mounts for the party. Say 50 members of the prestige class could supplement their numbers with mabye 2 extra regular troups each.
DoveArrow 07-06-05, 01:23 PM	It is not a low level setting. It is low help level setting. That's not quite accurate, but it's close. The Campaign Setting doesn't say that the NPCs are unwilling to help. What it states (and I don't remember where it states this because I don't have the book right in front of me) is that because of the Last War, there are few high level NPCs, like Elminster, left in the world to help bail the PCs out of a scrape once they reach something like 10th level. Meanwhile, City of Towers states that while NPCs in Sharn may be willing to help the PCs in the upper districts, they aren't likely to enter areas like the Cogs because they're extremely dangerous and the activity there is not often an immediate threat to the better parts of the city. Finally, in regards to level creep in Eberron, I would say that you should expect it to happen. The Last War is over now, and while adventuring is dangerous, every day is not a constant threat to a person's existence like it is in war. So, as the years progress in Eberron, I expect you'll see more and more adventurers approaching 10th level, maybe even surpassing 10th level.
Zalaz Mavi 07-06-05, 01:58 PM	What happened to Eberron being a low level setting? You have to take the unit in context. Aundair has a smallish army, and therefore relies heavily on elite units. Compare that against the army of Breland which is very large and composed mainly of civilian-soliders. Further, how are the Knights different than the undead fielded by the Karrnath? Those skeletons and zombies are certainly tougher than the average 2nd level NPC — and also fielded by a nation with a smallish population. In short, taken against the whole, they fit right in, as far as I'm concerned...
Edymnion 07-06-05, 05:53 PM	I think a FAR better example of power crawl was the Sharn Web Enhancment, which suggested that Lyrandar Tower had a company of 50 5th-level wizards, fighters, and clerics just standing around the landing pad acting as guards. That was written by an author who'd only done work on FR, and as I recall, Hellcow jumped in and said such a high concentration of PC-classed 5th level characters as guards was inappropriate. Yeah, the author of that particular article came on the boards and basically apologized for screwing up. He was a FR writer, and WotC basically told him "Here, write an Eberron article, its due next week". He did the best he could with the time and materials he had available, and just didn't know about the low level stuff. He was a cool guy. Willing to admit he screwed up instead of backpeddling or trying to explain it away and save face. I wonder what ever happened to him?
Zalaz Mavi 07-06-05, 06:06 PM	I wonder what ever happened to him? Drader? He wrote parts of d20 Apocalypse and has been answering questions over on those boards...
MysticTheurge 07-06-05, 11:49 PM	I think this is something we're going to continue to run into. There's basically one inescapible problem that's going to cause level creep. People want cool Eberron prestige classes. The cool PrCs are going to have requirements that force those entering them to be of a significant level. There are going to be NPCs who have levels in those PrCs, therefore you're going to see "high" level NPCs. There's really not a way to avoid it without either A) having only low-level prestige classes or B) having prestige classes that no one's actually in yet (until the PCs take them). Neither of those things really make any sense.
Edymnion 07-06-05, 11:55 PM	There's really not a way to avoid it without either A) having only low-level prestige classes or B) having prestige classes that no one's actually in yet (until the PCs take them). Neither of those things really make any sense.Eh, why not? PrC stopped being prestigeous and turned into nothing more than glorified 2e kits long ago. Why not just make low level PrC? Which, actually, could be perfectly in line with the original intention of PrC, to be a campaign specific worldbuilding tool for the DM. The city watch could have it's own PrC, for example. It would make sense too. Entrants would need to have a level of combat ability (say a +1 or +2 BAB), a bit of knowledge of what is legal and what isn't (Knowledge[Law] 2-4 ranks), and let it be a 3-5 level uPrC (unPrestigeous Class).
MysticTheurge 07-07-05, 12:13 AM	Eh, why not? PrC stopped being prestigeous and turned into nothing more than glorified 2e kits long ago. Why not just make low level PrC? I'm not suggesting that there never be low level prestige classes, simply that there shouldn't be only low level prestige classes. People want cool things from their prestige classes and you should be able to get cool things for your PCs. For that to happen there need to be ten level prestige classes and those are going to have solid entry requirements. And that means you're going to end up with some (or a bunch of) NPCs who are in the 7th-10th range. Sure you can design some prestige classes that are enterable using NPC classes, and sure you can design some that are low level prestige classes that are 3-5 levels in length, but they can't all be that way. So we're going to end up with NPCs with a decent amount of character class levels. I think several other people on this board have made good points about why that's an ok thing. And I certainly think the game designers should keep moderation in mind when doing it. But, personally, I don't want to see nothing but three level prestige classes for Eberron.
ryanroyce 07-07-05, 12:52 AM	One way to handle the matter is to have the sample NPC of any given prestige class be written as an antagonist for the PCs. That's entirely up to the writer of the PrC, however. Ryan
Araciss 07-07-05, 05:29 AM	As some have said, a number of the Knight Phantoms might be lower level (1warrior/wiz3 =CR3), as the order might have accepted lesser skilled people as Knight Phantoms due to the deaths and retairments of former Phantoms. Or you could (not a good idea, but you could) make a spell named lesser phantom steed, a 1st level spell on the adept list... thus making really low-levelled Knight Phantoms - and making the PC's in the order special, as they are the only ones who manage to learn the old skills of the Knight Phantoms. Only a couple of (bad) ideas... but i don't want Eberron to end up like Faerun.
DavidB 07-07-05, 07:24 AM	How is "low level setting" defined? What does it mean? If we just look at Aundair. If there are 1000 people 5th level or higher, that still only comes out to 0.05% of the population. I just do not see what the issue is, other than someone wanting their Character to be Gods with the posibility of running everything.
Zedium 07-07-05, 07:44 AM	True on the prc, all very nice comments in here, indeed I like the idea of there being a few lower level Knight Phantoms. On the other hand though, it seems the NPC are also growing in power though. Afterall, one of the leaders of Aundair is a level 12, pretty powerful stuff, and Adal was upgraded from a LN Fighter 3/Wizard 3 to a NE Fighter 2/Wizard 8. I don't know if this was intentional, but slowely we seem to be gaining powerful characters as leaders, while Eberron introduced the idea of someone not having to be high level to rule.
Brastan 07-07-05, 11:25 AM	one of the leaders of Aundair is a level 12, pretty powerful stuff, and Adal was upgraded from a LN Fighter 3/Wizard 3 to a NE Fighter 2/Wizard 8. I don't know if this was intentional, but slowely we seem to be gaining powerful characters as leaders, while Eberron introduced the idea of someone not having to be high level to rule. I believe it is intentional. As has been said NPCs in Eberron are alterable. If you don't like how they appear in one place you can use a different source. If you still are unhappy with their setup you can just rewrite their stats as you wish. The Lord of Blades is the best example of this. There is/was a whole discussions on who the Lord of Blades is in People and Places. How you explain the shift in alignment and classes? He died, was resurrected (level loss) and studied more as a wizard. This is clearly a higher stat level for a higher level PC party. I say use both sets if you like.
Siran Dunmorgan 07-07-05, 11:43 AM	He died, was resurrected (level loss) and studied more as a wizard. This is clearly a higher stat level for a higher level PC party. I say use both sets if you like. Hmm… I just assumed he was possessed by a fiend with a penchant for magic and an axe to grind against the Silver Flame. With his former stats, he figures highly in my upcoming 'Arcane Congress' campaign. —Siran Dunmorgan
greatfrito 07-07-05, 07:02 PM	Hmm... perhaps not all of the Phantom Knights need be in the Prestige class yet? For organizational NPC's, rarely do they -have- to have the appropriate Prestige Class. So having a big group of Wiz X/Ftr Y (where X+Y < 4) characters that make up the elite Aundairian forces wouldn't be too big of a deal. Only the best of the best (the TRULY elite; far better than their fellow knights) would gain access to the Prestige class.