Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ghostie Ghost 10-20-04, 11:58 AM	I have done this thread so you can try and convince me that Eberron is not a Final Fantasy clone (airships anyone) with all the cults in the dark undercity slums. The mournlands are very good though, a mournlands campaign setting would be fine, and warforged are cool. By the way i play FR only rarely and i hate Elminster. I prefer Dragonlance and Ravenloft.
helzapoppn 10-20-04, 12:07 PM	Sounds like you've already made up your mind. If you prefer Dragonloft and Ravenlance...I mean, you know...stick with them.
Zweischneid 10-20-04, 12:07 PM	I have done this thread so you can try and convince me that Eberron is not a Final Fantasy clone (airships anyone) with all the cults in the dark undercity slums. Wasn't Final Fantasy that Sci Fi Movie? They had Starships, not Airships ;). Besides.... Earthdawn and Stormbringer (and Forgotten Realms) had Airships long before either Eberron or Final Fantasy (no-not the movie). I prefer Dragonlance Flying Fortresses anyone?
MrFilthyIke 10-20-04, 01:15 PM	Flying Fortresses anyone? ZING! :D
7sigma 10-20-04, 01:25 PM	No, really. If you've read the book and are still convinced this is a FF clone, I won't bother to change your mind. However, you need to be more specific: there are at least fifty FF games out there (including the Tactics franchise, the Game Boy ones, etc), and EACH one has a different feel about it. So, pretty much ANYTHING can be considered a FF clone... ;) But anyway. I've got a friend who insists Eberron is a World of Darkness rip-off... all I know is that it is a damn good setting :D
Ghostie Ghost 10-20-04, 01:32 PM	My main concern is that i am undecided if too buy the ECS or the Libris Mortis. (i would buy both if i had enough money) My opinion is based on Forgotten Realms fans and they do seem to have a few points against Eberron, and i STILL think it is vaguely related to Final Fantasy.
sh0 10-20-04, 01:58 PM	Then you should buy the Libris Mortis. Start saving up for the ECS, hang out on these boards for awhile and you'll start to see that Eberron is not Final Fantasy or anything else the Realms fanboys like to call it. Eberron is an extremely well written, cohesive setting that has a lot of flavor. It isn't for everyone, just as the Realms aren't for everyone. sh0
Warlord 10-20-04, 02:21 PM	I see no gunblades and super-jets or magi-tek Eberron isn't an FF clone.
m15a 10-20-04, 02:28 PM	i STILL think it is vaguely related to Final Fantasy. everything setting is at least vaguely related to every other setting. i don't really understand. forgotten realms has airships and forgotten realms has dinosaurs (at least it used to). but forgotten realms doesn't have warforged or kalashtar. a list of similarities and differences can be listed between all the settings. (dragonlance has dragons, so does ebberron . . ravenloft is low powered, so is ebberron . . . ebberron does not have kender. etc. etc.)
nyysjan 10-20-04, 02:42 PM	In a game any action is a right action if it is entertaining. Only the boring is stupid.
Korhal IV 10-20-04, 02:49 PM	My main concern is that i am undecided if too buy the ECS or the Libris Mortis. (i would buy both if i had enough money) My opinion is based on Forgotten Realms fans and they do seem to have a few points against Eberron, and i STILL think it is vaguely related to Final Fantasy. Keith Baker has never played or seen the Final Fantasy games. So any resemblance there is coincidental. It's possible for two guys to hit on similar ideas, but it's not a deliberate attempt to draw the FF crowd.
Doctor X 10-20-04, 03:13 PM	By Final Fantasy clone... do you mean the newer Final Fantasies? The ones that keep using the magic-tech feel? If you think Eberron is a rip-off of that, then you definitely don't understand the setting. There is no magic blended with technology. It's all magic. What we view as "technology" is completely nonexistant and unecessary in Eberron, because magic has replaced it. You won't see anyone inventing magical gunblades, generators, or robots, because Eberron already has staves, spell-storing weapons, eldritch devices, and golems. For example-- the Airships... They do not have wings, or bouyant gasses, or anti-gravity units, or any other mechanical means of keeping themselves afloat. There is NOTHING holding them up aside from the magical properties if the wood they are built from and the elemental bound in the surrounding ring. Oh... and the "underground organization" thing you mentioned... Final Fantasy did NOT invent that. That kind of stuff has been around for decades.
Fourthmensch 10-20-04, 03:54 PM	My main concern is that i am undecided if too buy the ECS or the Libris Mortis. (i would buy both if i had enough money) My opinion is based on Forgotten Realms fans and they do seem to have a few points against Eberron, and i STILL think it is vaguely related to Final Fantasy. One of the unfortunate facts of the gaming life is that the fan base of any one system/setting disparage another. Sometimes the grievances are fair, but very often they are disingenuous and unwarranted. In my opinion, many people over on the FR boards dislike Eberron because of the way it was hyped. "Airships!" they saw, "Lightning Rails!" and simply decided that it was an adolescent slapdash of kewl stuff. As a long time FR fan (I started playing way back with the Grey Box), I can say that I am very pleased with Eberron. The method of building magic into the fabric society makes good sense, the races are compelling, and the pulp/noir elements are a refreshing infusion into the classic fantasy feel of D&D. That being said... I don't think its fair to say "Convince me of" whatever. Cruise the boards, read some of Baker's Dragonshards, flip through the ECS in your local store. Though I like the setting very much, Eberron is not for everyone. Take a look around and make up your own mind.
Harshmage 10-20-04, 04:09 PM	Yeah, I think I'm with a number of these guys above my post. Eberron is NOT a FF clone (if there was a FF clone setting, I'd be into it already). Eberron is unique in it's own right. Read the book cover to cover. It's worth it.
Hanuman47 10-20-04, 04:13 PM	Sounds like you've already made up your mind. Here's an idea. Rather than blithely dismissing someone who is ambivalent, how about if we share what we actually love about the setting? Ghostie Ghost, a little background on the defensive attitude you may be picking up on here. Eberron has taken a lot of flack based on erroneous assumptions. Often the assumers simply close their minds and don't want to know more, but still want to bash. In at least one case there was a detractor who deliberately and knowingly spread false information to turn people against it. Some of us have been fighting this fight for 10 months or more, so there's a tendency to overreact when anyone makes what could be a provocative remark. All that aside, let me actually address your question. I can't speak to any similarities with Final Fantasy, as I am completely unfamiliar with any of its incarnations. Here is what I like about Eberron: 1) Nifty new races. You got your face changing, ready made for deceipt changelings. Were-descended shifters who can assume animal characteristics. Mystical kalashtar, humans who carry within them the spirits of refugees from the plane of Dreams. And, of course, the warforged who, contrary to widespread belief, are not robots but golems with real souls, struggling to find a place in the world. 2) Interesting new roles for traditional races. Intrigue-y gnomes. Warrior elves. Creepy elves who keep their dead ancestors around for advice. Halfling barbarian nomads who ride dinosaurs. Goblinoids struggling to reclaim their formerly great empire. Spiritual orcs. Jungle-dwelling, scorpion-oriented (not necessarily worshipping) Drow. And dwarves who like money and mining and, uh,…ok, we'll get back to you on that one. 3) Coherent history, geography and political background with lots of dramatic potential - the fallout of a recent war is chock full of political, military, and espionage hooks. 4) Neat organizations. The 12 dragonmarked Houses are kind of like proto-multinational corporations, but with cool magic powers that any of the “old school” PC races can get in on. Thesea and other organizations provide an array of potential patrons and enemies at all levels of power. 5) Cool cosmology. The orbiting planes are a nice departure from the Great Wheel. 6) Multiple full-blown religions instead of a random collection of comic-book character gods. 7) Magic use taken to a logical conclusion. The study of the arcane has become a science, a science whose products often serve the same functions as technology does in other settings. This is the number one area of confusion - it does not mean that Eberron is magictech, with wizards in spaceships firing their magic laserguns. Rather, you have things like street lighting based on the continual flame spell and professional craftsmen using magic to enhance their wares. 8) About those airships…I see this as another example of the above - they are a melding of several advances in magical science (the process of binding elementals, items keyed to and enhancing dragonmarks) and, whatever they may or may not resemble in a video game, way frickin' cool! 9) Awesome support. The creator of the setting is writing a series of web articles, not to mention maintaining a regular presence on these boards answering questions. There is tons more that could be said about all of the above, but I just wanted to direct you towards a few things that you may want to give a second look. As far as purchasing Eberron Campaign Setting vs. Libris Mortis, well, that depends, of course, on how you're wanting to use them. Both books have a lot of new crunch material - prestige classes, feats, spells, equipment, magic items, monsters. The ones in Libris Mortis are more focused, as might be expected in a book dealing with one type of monster. There's a lot of setting-specific info in ECS, but a lot that could be put into any game, too. I was lucky enough to be able to purchase both books, but if I had to choose only one, I would pick ECS without hesitation. It just has more to add to any campaign, whether set in that world or not. All this is, of course, my personal opinion. As Fourthmensch says, poke around a little more, don't take any one person's views as gospel.
Bubba333 10-20-04, 04:19 PM	Exalted is by far more Final Fantasy than Eberron, so I'm lost by your comparison. I do have a few questions: 1) What is the point of posting that you've made up you're mind about Eberron? Not that we don't want to assist you in understanding the setting, but if you're locked into a mindset, what can we do? 2) Do airships make a setting Final Fantasy? 3) Why do SO many people poo on Eberron? It's exactly what D&D needed, IMO. Anyhoo, nothing but love here, but please try to explain yourself just a tad better next time.
ENHenry 10-20-04, 04:25 PM	It's similar to Final Fantasy in the way that Doc Savage, the Shadow, and Indiana Jones movies are similar to Final Fantasy. In other words, both are based on their 1930's pulp forbears, and you see the result.
Brastan 10-20-04, 04:57 PM	If you've already been reading on the boards and have seen FF references please note, they are not whole base on the Core Eberron setting. It is the twist wrappings of mild to crazed FF fans now playing the game(yes me is one ;) ). So just ignore us the references as standard for the setting. The Shadow is a much better reference, and Indian Jones of course. If you like undead then Libris Mortis is the way to go. This book will also be good to add to Eberron because of the one of those "cults in the dark undercity slums." However that statement a misread on Sharn, the City of Towers. If you though that Sharn is like Midgard in FF7, thats not quite right. Sharn is more like Coruscant from starwars, but made of stone and on a much smaller scale. Every group has at least one member in that metropolis. The city's source book will be out next month BTW. Sharn is also adventure centurial and the one of the few ports that will send ships to the giants continent. Bounce around the boards if your still not sure, also read the Dragonshard articles on the Eberron web site at Wizards.
Save-vs-DM 10-20-04, 05:01 PM	There are some good points here, but here are a few things that I loved most about the setting, maybe they might help you decide as well. 1. Read the Dragonshards article on Khoravar (half-elves). You can find it Here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040906a) Never before have I seen a race that most people dislike given so much loving attention. Thanks to this article I'm playing my first half-elf PC character in many, many years. 2. Read the Dragonshards article on the Heirs of Dhakan. You can find it Here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040816a) I've always loved Bugbears, and now I finally have a setting that gives them an interesting backstory and an actual society. 3. Check out the Ask Keith Baker FAQ thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=287579) There are some great answers hidden in there, but mostly just look at how much time Keith has given us to answer our questions. What other setting gives you feedback from the designer? 4. If you play dragonlance, I assume you like the fifth age where the gods have dissapeared. Eberron has a similar theme of divine distance. The gods are still there, but very, very distant. In fact, a cleric does not have to be within one step of the dieties alignment. Yes, that's right, you can have a LE cleric of a CG god. In addition, death really, really sucks. You don't go have tea with the gods, you hang out in a bleak afterlife until you go somewhere else. 5. You like ravenloft. I assume you like the dark feeling and undead. There is an entire religion and organization based on undeath, the Blood of Vol. They make excellent antagonists. Furthermore, if you like the madness of Ravenloft, I think the Dealkyr might be up your ally. Imagine if Cthullu was not an elder god but a weird guy who likes making new abberations. There is also a realm of madness, that while it cannot be visited currently, can be used in your games if you feel like it. On a final fantasy clone bit: I've only played some of the newer ones and none of the tactics line, so I can't make a huge generalization myself. But I will say that from what I've played of the FF series, the only thing that really seemed similar to me are the airships, but they're very different types of airships. Eberron is hard to understand with a brief skim through the book. If you play a lot of ravenloft, you might be better off buying Libris Mortis now, for use in that setting and them saving money for the Eberron Campaign Setting. One last word on Eberron: I've found that it really has a place for every other DnD product. I think you might be able to pull things from both Dragonlance and Ravenloft and stick them in parts of Eberron. It's not a big step from the current stance of the gods to a fifth age type of deal. And the madness of ravenloft could probably be found when Dolurrh is coterminous. Eberron might just be a way to let you run both of your favorite settings in the same campaign, or at least parts of them. I hope some of this advice was a little helpful. Cheers, Save vs DM