Eberron Under the Glass - Dungeon Exploration [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron Under the Glass - Dungeon Exploration [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ieattrollsforbreakfast
10-18-04, 05:18 AM I think that this week we have a much more sound article from SKR. No embarrasing mistakes this time, and that really helps to keep the tone of the article.
Overall, I do like this one. It might not offer much to experienced DMs (although some bits are useful pointers), but to a new Eberron DM I think this is a valuable piece.
Megatron
10-18-04, 07:43 AM Yep, this one was pretty good.
MadApplejack
10-18-04, 09:46 AM I didn't like it at all. The article supposedly was meant to compare/contrast dungeons in Eberron with those of the typical Dnd setting, but everything I saw except "Sharn" could apply to Greyhawk, FR, or whatever. The author's intent seems to be to show ways that Eberron is more exciting and interesting than what you're used to, but that just assumes that the way you've been doing it is boring. :turkey:
StormKnight
10-18-04, 10:57 AM Seems like kind of a meaningless article.
First off, everything they talk about is really entirely dependent on the GM, not the scenario. I'm quite sure that simply saying "we're playing Eberron" does not make a GM who's been running straight hack and slash for ten years suddenly include interesting NPCs in the dungeon.

Secondly, what in the world are they considering a "normal" game?

"...so you start at the entrance to the dungeon"? Um, well, when I've occasionally played D&D as essentially a board game, sure, but in a real game? Never done that. I wouldn't think getting there should always be hard, as they seem to say. If a scenario involves the high temple suddenly being overrun by evil spirits, I doubt there's much "getting there" in Eberron either. But I've certainly had lots of games where getting there is most of the story. Or where there's no "dungeon" at all. Do they consider this unusual?

Has anybody ever played in a "clear out the rats" type game?? Sure, I've seen it in computer/console RPGs, where you're given an essentially meaningless task just to get some XP and gold, but in a real RPG? I've sure never played or run a game like that.

"...things aren't always as they seem"? Once again, is this odd? I can't recall ever having players assume everything they will meet is evil, nor assuming everything is exactly as they are told. Heck, isn't the classic joke along the lines of "Immediately kill whoever hired you. They're really the villain."?

So, sorry, sounds like "Ooh, isn't this exciting" with no meaning to it whatsoever. Or maybe they person who wrote it has just played really odd games normally. <shrug>
Bubba333
10-18-04, 11:33 AM Although the article wasn't that helpful to me, I definetely see it's merit. Remember that D&D does "suffer" from quite a few sterotypes that most of us seem able to get past on our own (we do play Eberron after all, eh? ;)). However there are quite a few people locked into those stereotypes that might need a little push towards the unique feel of Eberron. Sure most of those ideas could work in a Forgotten Realms game, but they aren't the norm.
Iron_Weasel
10-18-04, 11:41 AM I'm with trolls on this one; we really gave SKR the gears last week over his first EUG article, but this one is much more sound.

Cheers!
Zalaz Mavi
10-18-04, 12:16 PM While I think the article did a decent job of portraying the Eberron side of the topic, portraying other games as unimaginative and repetitive struck me as being very snide. If I didn't know better, I'd think that just by buying the Eberron book, my game would magically go from drab to a masterpiece of storytelling...
Edymnion
10-18-04, 12:21 PM MUCH better article this time Sean!If I didn't know better, I'd think that just by buying the Eberron book, my game would magically go from drab to a masterpiece of storytelling...What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!*

*Individual results may vary.
greatfrito
10-18-04, 12:36 PM MUCH better article this time Sean!

Yeah, I'll agree with this general sentiment.

The articles seem to be aimed at newer DMs or people who are just getting into the game, it seems. Sure experienced DMs may know to do these things, but new people might not. Still, the only thing that makes them Eberron Specific is the few pieces of flavor thrown in. I'd almost say to seperate the articles from Eberron, and just call them "Under Glass", and make it an article about making your game more interesting, aimed more at newer players.

What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!*

Well the first is obviously true (But I didn't need any help... ), the second doesn't specify where the hair grows, and the third must be true, because I bought Eberron, and now I don't have cancer!

Yay for Eberron! Miracle Drug/Campaign Setting!

All Forgotten Realms does is make me breakfast every morning and shine my dice.
Gurv
10-18-04, 01:09 PM It was better than before. Although most experinced DMs are not going to be running rat-chasing dungeons, or assuming that the adventure doesn't begin until they reach the dungeon, the article does have some merit.

If nothing else, the article underscores the pulp concept of adventuring again by reminding DMs of the basic ideas behind the genre. He adds some specific examples of how Eberron is supposed to be different.

Remember, he is writing these articles to draw in players who don't already know what we do about Eberron. He is trying to take the typical D&D player and make them into a superior one, one who plays in an Eberron campaign. Otherwise, the entire feature would be called "Read Chapter Nine".

Oh, and Edymnion? Consider yourself quoted.
Lady Morn
10-18-04, 01:25 PM Reading this week's article still hasn't shaken my impression that this column is gratuitous. That it doesn't do anything that Dragonshards and Steal this Hook aren't already doing, and doing better. Personally, if I wanted to illustrate how Eberron was different design-wise, flavor-wise and storywise, I'd direct people to Dragonshards and Steal this Hook, and have them pass over Under Glass entirely...
Bluebrush
10-18-04, 01:39 PM MUCH better article this time Sean!What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer![/i]

It's true! While they previously no appeal to the opposite sex, D&D geeks who play Eberron demonstrate a 100% increase in hotness levels!
trentlanthier
10-18-04, 01:56 PM I think that what some are forgetting is that Eberron is geared at getting people (Some Old and Some New) to play.

Ebberon is more geared towards the newbie DM (Much like me)

I think myself that I'm impressed with all the aids they have around for the New DM.

My sessions have been few with some fantastic hits, and more than my share of foul balls.

So any help is good, I fully hope that GMing is a learned talent not a born one. I can't do voices, I can't do accents etc, so its work for me to GM but I put the effort in when I am doing it to come up with stories.
Joni-san
10-18-04, 02:06 PM MUCH better article this time Sean!

What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!*

*Individual results may vary.

Agreed! *Hmmm... Should I put this in my sig...*
Serpentine
10-18-04, 02:50 PM Under the Glass is for new DMs who haven't necessarily played other D&D games before. Possibly even for people who are new to gaming altogether, or for people who play other companies' games and are attracted to the ambiguity of Eberron's noir section.

The Dragonshards articles are for people who have read the whole book cover to cover (I know I skimmed over the single sentence mentioning good yuan-ti in the Talenta Plains) and want to know specifics about culture and possible plot hooks (which are the shulassakar: lawful good couatl yuan-ti who worship the Silver Flame).

Steal this Hook! is a resource purely for DMs: it's more good plot ideas than one person could ever practically use in a year.

I was a little disappointed that Under the Glass: Artifacts wasn't going to be a starting point for a series of SKR Eberron artifacts. But it doesn't do a bloody thing to complain that Under the Glass isn't what you want when that's not what it's supposed to be.

Perhaps this is more what Eberron fanatics were looking for.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/eberron/sixwidowsinn.html
D.F.
10-18-04, 03:27 PM I'm with trolls on this one; we really gave SKR the gears last week over his first EUG article, but this one is much more sound.

Cheers!

Agreed. This week's article is better than the one before, and even if I still prefer the Dragonshards and Steal this Hook this is definitely a step in the right direction!
Just another user
10-18-04, 05:16 PM It's true! While they previously no appeal to the opposite sex, D&D geeks who play Eberron demonstrate a 100% increase in hotness levels!

But, wait...a 100% increase of zero appeal... :confused: :uh-huh:
seankreynolds
10-19-04, 09:08 PM I was a little disappointed that Under the Glass: Artifacts wasn't going to be a starting point for a series of SKR Eberron artifacts.

But that _would_ be fun, though, and I'd love to do something like that. Unfortunately, some of the management people have told the web team they don't want as much rules content in the web stuff (it's a pendulum that swings in the opposite direction about once a year).

Me, I _like_ making up story stuff and crafting rules to go with it, and vice versa; just doing story isn't as fun or exciting, especially in a column that _has_ to be so short ... I've actually overwritten all of the UtG articles so far, they're only supposed to be about 700 words).
Aris Stormdragon
10-19-04, 11:34 PM Yeah, Sean, keep up the good work.

MUCH better article this time Sean!

What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!*

*Individual results may vary.
Drat, mine must be broken.
nyysjan
10-20-04, 02:19 AM It was better than before. Although most experinced DMs are not going to be running rat-chasing dungeons, or assuming that the adventure doesn't begin until they reach the dungeon, the article does have some merit.
But why use a dungeon at all.
Make an good old fashioned detective story that happens in a single building maybe even in a single room who did what, to whom and why.
NO BATTLE NO GORE NO BLOOD but who's gonna drop dead next.
Bubba333
10-20-04, 03:35 AM Yes, great job!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ieattrollsforbreakfast 10-18-04, 05:18 AM	I think that this week we have a much more sound article from SKR. No embarrasing mistakes this time, and that really helps to keep the tone of the article. Overall, I do like this one. It might not offer much to experienced DMs (although some bits are useful pointers), but to a new Eberron DM I think this is a valuable piece.
Megatron 10-18-04, 07:43 AM	Yep, this one was pretty good.
MadApplejack 10-18-04, 09:46 AM	I didn't like it at all. The article supposedly was meant to compare/contrast dungeons in Eberron with those of the typical Dnd setting, but everything I saw except "Sharn" could apply to Greyhawk, FR, or whatever. The author's intent seems to be to show ways that Eberron is more exciting and interesting than what you're used to, but that just assumes that the way you've been doing it is boring. :turkey:
StormKnight 10-18-04, 10:57 AM	Seems like kind of a meaningless article. First off, everything they talk about is really entirely dependent on the GM, not the scenario. I'm quite sure that simply saying "we're playing Eberron" does not make a GM who's been running straight hack and slash for ten years suddenly include interesting NPCs in the dungeon. Secondly, what in the world are they considering a "normal" game? "...so you start at the entrance to the dungeon"? Um, well, when I've occasionally played D&D as essentially a board game, sure, but in a real game? Never done that. I wouldn't think getting there should always be hard, as they seem to say. If a scenario involves the high temple suddenly being overrun by evil spirits, I doubt there's much "getting there" in Eberron either. But I've certainly had lots of games where getting there is most of the story. Or where there's no "dungeon" at all. Do they consider this unusual? Has anybody ever played in a "clear out the rats" type game?? Sure, I've seen it in computer/console RPGs, where you're given an essentially meaningless task just to get some XP and gold, but in a real RPG? I've sure never played or run a game like that. "...things aren't always as they seem"? Once again, is this odd? I can't recall ever having players assume everything they will meet is evil, nor assuming everything is exactly as they are told. Heck, isn't the classic joke along the lines of "Immediately kill whoever hired you. They're really the villain."? So, sorry, sounds like "Ooh, isn't this exciting" with no meaning to it whatsoever. Or maybe they person who wrote it has just played really odd games normally. <shrug>
Bubba333 10-18-04, 11:33 AM	Although the article wasn't that helpful to me, I definetely see it's merit. Remember that D&D does "suffer" from quite a few sterotypes that most of us seem able to get past on our own (we do play Eberron after all, eh? ;)). However there are quite a few people locked into those stereotypes that might need a little push towards the unique feel of Eberron. Sure most of those ideas could work in a Forgotten Realms game, but they aren't the norm.
Iron_Weasel 10-18-04, 11:41 AM	I'm with trolls on this one; we really gave SKR the gears last week over his first EUG article, but this one is much more sound. Cheers!
Zalaz Mavi 10-18-04, 12:16 PM	While I think the article did a decent job of portraying the Eberron side of the topic, portraying other games as unimaginative and repetitive struck me as being very snide. If I didn't know better, I'd think that just by buying the Eberron book, my game would magically go from drab to a masterpiece of storytelling...
Edymnion 10-18-04, 12:21 PM	MUCH better article this time Sean!If I didn't know better, I'd think that just by buying the Eberron book, my game would magically go from drab to a masterpiece of storytelling...What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!* *Individual results may vary.
greatfrito 10-18-04, 12:36 PM	MUCH better article this time Sean! Yeah, I'll agree with this general sentiment. The articles seem to be aimed at newer DMs or people who are just getting into the game, it seems. Sure experienced DMs may know to do these things, but new people might not. Still, the only thing that makes them Eberron Specific is the few pieces of flavor thrown in. I'd almost say to seperate the articles from Eberron, and just call them "Under Glass", and make it an article about making your game more interesting, aimed more at newer players. What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!* Well the first is obviously true (But I didn't need any help... ), the second doesn't specify where the hair grows, and the third must be true, because I bought Eberron, and now I don't have cancer! Yay for Eberron! Miracle Drug/Campaign Setting! All Forgotten Realms does is make me breakfast every morning and shine my dice.
Gurv 10-18-04, 01:09 PM	It was better than before. Although most experinced DMs are not going to be running rat-chasing dungeons, or assuming that the adventure doesn't begin until they reach the dungeon, the article does have some merit. If nothing else, the article underscores the pulp concept of adventuring again by reminding DMs of the basic ideas behind the genre. He adds some specific examples of how Eberron is supposed to be different. Remember, he is writing these articles to draw in players who don't already know what we do about Eberron. He is trying to take the typical D&D player and make them into a superior one, one who plays in an Eberron campaign. Otherwise, the entire feature would be called "Read Chapter Nine". Oh, and Edymnion? Consider yourself quoted.
Lady Morn 10-18-04, 01:25 PM	Reading this week's article still hasn't shaken my impression that this column is gratuitous. That it doesn't do anything that Dragonshards and Steal this Hook aren't already doing, and doing better. Personally, if I wanted to illustrate how Eberron was different design-wise, flavor-wise and storywise, I'd direct people to Dragonshards and Steal this Hook, and have them pass over Under Glass entirely...
Bluebrush 10-18-04, 01:39 PM	MUCH better article this time Sean!What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer![/i] It's true! While they previously no appeal to the opposite sex, D&D geeks who play Eberron demonstrate a 100% increase in hotness levels!
trentlanthier 10-18-04, 01:56 PM	I think that what some are forgetting is that Eberron is geared at getting people (Some Old and Some New) to play. Ebberon is more geared towards the newbie DM (Much like me) I think myself that I'm impressed with all the aids they have around for the New DM. My sessions have been few with some fantastic hits, and more than my share of foul balls. So any help is good, I fully hope that GMing is a learned talent not a born one. I can't do voices, I can't do accents etc, so its work for me to GM but I put the effort in when I am doing it to come up with stories.
Joni-san 10-18-04, 02:06 PM	MUCH better article this time Sean! What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!* Individual results may vary. Agreed! Hmmm... Should I put this in my sig...*
Serpentine 10-18-04, 02:50 PM	Under the Glass is for new DMs who haven't necessarily played other D&D games before. Possibly even for people who are new to gaming altogether, or for people who play other companies' games and are attracted to the ambiguity of Eberron's noir section. The Dragonshards articles are for people who have read the whole book cover to cover (I know I skimmed over the single sentence mentioning good yuan-ti in the Talenta Plains) and want to know specifics about culture and possible plot hooks (which are the shulassakar: lawful good couatl yuan-ti who worship the Silver Flame). Steal this Hook! is a resource purely for DMs: it's more good plot ideas than one person could ever practically use in a year. I was a little disappointed that Under the Glass: Artifacts wasn't going to be a starting point for a series of SKR Eberron artifacts. But it doesn't do a bloody thing to complain that Under the Glass isn't what you want when that's not what it's supposed to be. Perhaps this is more what Eberron fanatics were looking for. http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/eberron/sixwidowsinn.html
D.F. 10-18-04, 03:27 PM	I'm with trolls on this one; we really gave SKR the gears last week over his first EUG article, but this one is much more sound. Cheers! Agreed. This week's article is better than the one before, and even if I still prefer the Dragonshards and Steal this Hook this is definitely a step in the right direction!
Just another user 10-18-04, 05:16 PM	It's true! While they previously no appeal to the opposite sex, D&D geeks who play Eberron demonstrate a 100% increase in hotness levels! But, wait...a 100% increase of zero appeal... :confused: :uh-huh:
seankreynolds 10-19-04, 09:08 PM	I was a little disappointed that Under the Glass: Artifacts wasn't going to be a starting point for a series of SKR Eberron artifacts. But that _would_ be fun, though, and I'd love to do something like that. Unfortunately, some of the management people have told the web team they don't want as much rules content in the web stuff (it's a pendulum that swings in the opposite direction about once a year). Me, I _like_ making up story stuff and crafting rules to go with it, and vice versa; just doing story isn't as fun or exciting, especially in a column that _has_ to be so short ... I've actually overwritten all of the UtG articles so far, they're only supposed to be about 700 words).
Aris Stormdragon 10-19-04, 11:34 PM	Yeah, Sean, keep up the good work. MUCH better article this time Sean! What, didn't you know? Buying Eberron makes you a master storyteller, increases your appeal to the opposite sex, grows hair, and cures cancer!* *Individual results may vary. Drat, mine must be broken.
nyysjan 10-20-04, 02:19 AM	It was better than before. Although most experinced DMs are not going to be running rat-chasing dungeons, or assuming that the adventure doesn't begin until they reach the dungeon, the article does have some merit. But why use a dungeon at all. Make an good old fashioned detective story that happens in a single building maybe even in a single room who did what, to whom and why. NO BATTLE NO GORE NO BLOOD but who's gonna drop dead next.
Bubba333 10-20-04, 03:35 AM	Yes, great job!