Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Leliel 03-22-08, 06:17 PM	Anyway, a recurring idea of mine is that the players are denizens of a typical fantasy world which finds itself under the siege of magically-and-technologically minded extraterrestrials. For the most part, I have everything about fluff down (the main race of invaders, the Nic'en, invade the particular campaign world to gain the upper hand against their eternal nemeses, the Iul, and bring along a few of their allied races), but for one thing: All the worlds I create for invasion are homebrew. Naturally, I thought I could use some of the normal campaign worlds as battlegrounds. That's when I decided that Eberron would be perfect: Although any other campaign world would be just as panicked as Eberron when it realized that it was under attack by aliens, they do not have Eberron's self-centered belief of being unique in the cosmos: Greyhawk already knows it's not the center of the universe, and Aber-Toril, well it's already being attacked by aliens from another dimension, so finding another few wouldn't stretch the inhabitants' imagination. Eberron, on the other hand, still believes their sun is a giant piece of crystal, and that their stars are reflections of light from same crystals (Where the crystals get the light is conveniently ignored by sages). Finding creatures from completely outside their tidy little cosmology would completely shatter their view of the cosmos, and their fear of being destroyed would combine with a newfound sense of worthlessness: In the end, even a mighty dragon can be felled by a single Nic'en fighter, and the great and terrible daelkyr are no match for the Nic'en's encyclopedia of eldritch knowledge and spells from beyond the stars. So... Is this a good idea? How would the Eberronians react when they realize that the Nic'en and their allies are not a race of outsiders or aberrations native to Eberron's cosmology or itself, but from different Prime worlds, both in this dimension and not? How should I illustrate the inside of Nic'en ships, so as to illustrate their millions of years of advancement in both science and magic? Few notes: 1) For those of you who are wondering, the Nic'en are a race of warm-blooded avians, with an evolutionary path that has rendered them very similar to humanoids, albeit ones that look more like birdmen with wings more than humans. They are extremely intelligent, and have a great appreciation for all forms of art, especially poetry and literature. They're to big too fly, but they can use their wings to both run very fast and glide for long distances. They, like the Iul, are extradimensional, using a type of "Skimmer Drive" to travel at FLT speeds and cross the borders between universes. They are also masters of AI, using a "hive structure" to coordinate the self-aware computers of their ships using a "mother brain", a semi-organic supercomputer with the ability to think outside it's directives and learn on it's own. In fact, this is the main weakness of the Nic'en: destroying the mother brain will cause the communication between the invading fleet to shut down entirely in some places, and confusing the AIs in others. Although this is only temporary in the long term (mother brains are replaceable), and not a viable option in many cases (The Nic'en have temporary backup computers just in case this happens, in which case they will also have to be destroyed in order cause the breakdown described above), but it will allow the opposing force enough time to launch a devastating attack against the Nic'en, or at least, build up defenses. 2) The Nic'en culture is similar in structure to feudal Japan, with the warriors expected to be poets and thinkers as well as conquerers and rulers. They are nomadic, divided across an unknown number of tribes. There is only one attacking Eberron, but their relatively low numbers are more then made up for by the fact that they have a tendency to assimilate cultures they come across, peacefully or not, into the individual tribe's fleet. The entirety of Nic'en society is dedicated to defeating and/or avoiding the Iul, a similar warrior race whose contact with forced the Nic'en to abandon their formerly peaceful ways. The countless eons that this war between the two races has more then whittled away at the Nic'en's collective sanity, and as a result, they have become dogmatic and fanatical in their search for a home safe from Iul attack. Ironically, if the Nic'en were able to forgive their enemies, they could probably live in peace with the Iul, who have grown equally tired of the constant war; If it weren't for Nic'en fanatics constantly arousing that race's instinctual paranoia via attacks against them, and their leaders not condemning them, or even supporting them, the Iul would happily form a truce that their honor would not allow them to break. 3) No, I do not plan on featuring the Iul in the first campaign I go about featuring the Nic'en. The next campaign, however...:evillaugh 4) Yes, the Mournlands has something to do with the Nic'en scouts: It is the result of the future commander of the invasion, and the BBEG of the game, Aries Maen, and a psychic struggle with a powerful quori which Cyre had summoned as an act of desperation. Although Aries won, destroying the quori and absorbing it's essence and knowledge, the energy released from the result of the soul of a quori not being able to reincarnate was catastrophic (sort of like an atomic explosion results from the overcoming of the strong nuclear force), creating the Mourning, and Maen's mental contact with the quori's fathomless evil shook him to the core. Unfortunately, although this has resulted in the constant self-doubt and introspection (One doesn't realize the quori originate from mortal dreams without wondering if one can become like them) needed for him to eventually question the wisdom of invading innocent worlds, it has also set his mind on the domination of Eberron: After all "It's either the Nic'en, or those...those...things." 5) And yes, he has had his grip on reality shaken by the fight with a quori: He has PTSD from the experience, and is scared of going to sleep outside his planar-travel protected ship. Oh yeah, and he's paranoid. He has every right to be, given that these are quori we're dealing with, but still, he's paranoid.
Gurv 03-22-08, 07:35 PM	Eberron has been invaded several times by extraplanar forces. Both times, the creatures invading have been (IMO) much scarier than these Nic'en you describe. The first time was by actual physical nightmares. The second was by beings of utter madness who twisted anything natural they came across. Both invasions had a impact that is felt even after thousands of years. I think that the people of Eberron would be terrified to learn of yet another invasion. But the Nic'en don't sound as terrifying as the daelkyr or the quori. The fact that they are from "beyond the cosmology" would mean very little to the average person in the setting. Who would know the difference? The Nic'en would be crushed by the Inspired, the dragons, and the fiends. They wouldn't even have to work together. Eberron, on the other hand, still believes their sun is a giant piece of crystal, and that their stars are reflections of light from same crystals (Where the crystals get the light is conveniently ignored by sages)... Since when?
Revvecor 03-22-08, 09:02 PM	This storyline reminds me of the Planet Cricket reaction when they found out they were not the only ones in the universe. :D :D :D
Charles Phipps 03-22-08, 10:21 PM	I think that the above posters are correct in that Eberron actually isn't remotely going to be phased by alien invasion. They actually are more likely to deal with the issue with a nod of their head than the people of ANY OTHER D&D setting with the exception of Spelljammer. Other planet is not so different than other dimension and Eberron is ROUTINELY invaded everytime a Manifest Zone appears on their world. They know about Daelkyr and have probably heard of other worlds being destroyed by them. I've already run The War of the Worlds with the Githyanki substituting for the Martians.
Sakon22 03-22-08, 10:28 PM	It sounds more like you just wanna show off your 'uber kewl' race of god-men in a setting that you seem to think is composed weak and easily frightened primitives. Eberron =! Earth, it has seen planar invasions before.
Charles Phipps 03-22-08, 10:30 PM	Nah, it's okay. I do think it'd be cool to see all of the 12 Nations unite against this threat though. If Ronald Reagan and the Soviets could...
Sakon22 03-22-08, 10:33 PM	He's implying that one of his 'Nice'ns' is the match of a Daelkyr and that one of them absorbed a Quori, causing the Mourning. It sounds rather absurd to me.
Charles Phipps 03-22-08, 10:38 PM	He's implying that one of his 'Nice'ns' is the match of a Daelkyr and that one of them absorbed a Quori, causing the Mourning. It sounds rather absurd to me. I thought that was his Emperor Palpatine/Big Bad Figure and not just an average member of said race. As for it being responsible for the Mourning, it's his campaign Why not alien attack?
Sakon22 03-22-08, 10:49 PM	Well, I supposed it is his campaign. I guess this idea just doesn't agree with me. I'd be like someone going over to the Faerun forums and say they have an idea for an alien invasion in which each member of the race has more arcane knowledge than Elminster (or however you spell it.)
Gurv 03-23-08, 06:39 AM	Now, don't get me wrong. I think that running a planar invasion game on Eberron is a great idea. But for the opposite reason than the OP, who seems to think the natives are going to go into shock. I like the invasion idea because it is well established that such things occur in the setting. Yes, the average commoner is going to react as he said, with complete terror and dispair (which would be augmented by whatever horror stories he's heard about previous invasion). But I would also be thinking about what the other elements of the setting would be doing: the dragons and the fiends have the knowledge and the power to predict such a thing and do something about it. The quori ARE such an invasion and would have a huge problem with the chaos a competitor would bring. Each power group on Eberron would need to be considered. I don't know if I'd bother with the "beyond the cosmology" angle. What does that mean, anyway? From another dimension is from another dimension, whether that dimension is known to sages or not. Myself, I think an invasion from Shavarath would make a great campaign.
Leliel 03-23-08, 06:32 PM	He's implying that one of his 'Nice'ns' is the match of a Daelkyr and that one of them absorbed a Quori, causing the Mourning. It sounds rather absurd to me. Well, he's the BBEG. You can't exactly expect him to be your "average" Nic'en, now can you. And no, I didn't say one of them is a match for a Daelkyr, I said that the Daelkyr are no match for the Nic'en fleet. An individual Nic'en is about as dead as you or I. And yes, there's a reason behind making the Nic'en so dang powerful: If you have ever played X-COM, you will get a sense of "insumountable opponent" from the storyline of the game. Since I was inspiried by X-COM, I wanted to create that same feeling of near-hoplessness, so I jacked up the power of the Nic'en to over-match Eberron's power. Yeah, I could probably have gone with a less powerful version. But where's the fun in that? EDIT: Gurv wondered about the "outside the cosmology" angle. I respond: I mean that the Nic'en are completely foreign to Eberron's veiw of reality. They aren't just from another plane, their from a whole 'nother multiverse, albeit one similar to Eberron's. If the physics of Eberron are as advanced as I think they are, it will have no concept of superstring theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstring_theory), and it's bigger brother, M-theory. The Nic'en, on the other hand, have not only found and proven that theory, but have found a pratical way to use it: Finding, and later conquering dimensions (and yes, I know I'm using that term wrong). And unfortunately, Eberron is next on their list.
Gurv 03-23-08, 07:36 PM	EDIT: Gurv wondered about the "outside the cosmology" angle. I respond: I mean that the Nic'en are completely foreign to Eberron's veiw of reality. They aren't just from another plane, their from a whole 'nother multiverse, albeit one similar to Eberron's. I don't think that the typical person on Eberron is going to understand the difference. It seems to me that you're mixing your science in with your magic. Be careful with that. The only impact that being "from beyond the cosmology" will have, as I understand it, is that the natives of Eberron won't have the know-how to get there themselves. Which is a sizable advantage, since it prevents them from using spying tactics, attacking the Nic'en home bases, and otherwise bringing the fight to the enemy.
Cloud Divider 03-23-08, 09:21 PM	So you're going to go with a pretty widely variant setting. No problem. Are you at all familiar with the Dragonstar setting? Because that sounds pretty much right up your alley, as being Sci-Fi + D&D in pretty blatant terms. Savage Worlds has a setting, Evernight, that is somewhat similar in concept (mysterious alien invasion of a mostly standard fantasy world). It's not quite so one-sided as what you're proposing. While I have it, and I've read through it, I'm not sure I'd ever run such a game. While it may make for a fun story, I'd have a pretty hard time selling such a relatively depressing campaign concept to my players - even if they did get to be the Big D*mn Heroes that save the day in the end. The payoff for that kind of game is when you finally kick the alien scum offworld, Will Smith-style. Problem is, to really maximize that payoff, the rest of the campaign has to be filled with desperation of the "how can we win?" flavor. And I'm not sure that I could guarantee that the Big Climax would pay REALLY be worthsix weeks (let alone six months!) of suck that leads up to it. So it's one of those fun-to-read, probably-not-as-fun-to-play scenarios. If you make the enemy not so overwhelming, you're playing a totally different game altogether... Since I was inspiried by X-COM, I wanted to create that same feeling of near-hoplessness, so I jacked up the power of the Nic'en to over-match Eberron's power. So in broad terms, how do you see the campaign playing out? You've built this nigh-unstoppable force. They've got space-travel, orbital bombardment cannons, FTL whotsits, individual soldiers are a physical match for great dragons, and they've got extradimensional magitechnology too. Eberron's pretty much stuck with atmospheric travel (via elemental airships, which are not especially fast, as most top out at 30mph). They've got various magical armaments, so perhaps there's some threat there...or at least, there is until the Nic'en orbital fleet use some transatmospheric weapons to blast them out of the sky. So you've got an overwhelmingly powerful alien invasion (alien in the most general sense - regardless of whether they're from space or an alternate plane). Are you really shooting for a "winnable" X-Com scenario? Is the Arcane Congress going to somehow end up with enough Nic'en technology to actually stage a meaningful defense? I mean, aside from an amusing thought experiment (whee! The Death Star enters orbit around Faerun! Tie Fighters vs. Dragons, Fight! DROW WITH LIGHTSABERS!)...the part that matters most is what you plan on DOING with it, to make it into a campaign. Something playable, and perhaps most importantly, enjoyable by your players. Or are you shooting for something more...postapocalyptic? "The Eberron you knew is dead. The Nic'en rule the land, the skies, and the heavens..." The PCs are "freedom fighters"? Or perhaps just survivalists, eking out a life on the ragged edges? What about the other Big Powers That Be on Eberron? Are the remaining Daelkyr/Draconic Council/Rakshasa/Silver Flame (THE Silver Flame, not the Church) going to sit idly by? Will they take sides? Will the mortal nations do the same? EDIT: Gurv wondered about the "outside the cosmology" angle. I respond: I mean that the Nic'en are completely foreign to Eberron's veiw of reality. They aren't just from another plane, their from a whole 'nother multiverse, albeit one similar to Eberron's. Meh. I honestly don't think it will matter one iota to anybody on Eberron. They're overwhelmingly powerful invaders from beyond. Whether they're from one of Eberron's moons, Khyber, another plane like Shavarath, or a parallel dimension is going to be largely irrelevant to them. Doubly so, becaues Eberron's already got a lengthy history of being Invaded From Beyond. As far as finding out the truth...It's tough to think those Deep Philosophical Thoughts when you're too busy dodging death rays, y'know? And unless the Nic'en end up doing a whole lot of talking, nobody's going to find out otherwise. So I don't think you're going to find this big existentialist morale effect on Eberron's populace. They already know there's Scary Things From Beyond out there (the Daelkyr, the Rakshasa Rajahs, the Quori...). Discovering one more isn't really going to make a difference. If the physics of Eberron are as advanced as I think they are, it will have no concept of superstring theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstring_theory), and it's bigger brother, M-theory. The Nic'en, on the other hand, have not only found and proven that theory, but have found a pratical way to use it: Finding, and later conquering dimensions (and yes, I know I'm using that term wrong). Sure. They probably don't know about superstring theory. Or M-Theory. But you know what? They've got methodologies that violate conventional physics anyway. In Eberron, Magic IS Science. That's part of the whole fundamental schtick of the Artificer. A magic user (arcane or divine) can spontaneously generate an exothermic reaction with NO reactants whatsoever (Create Fire, Fireball, etc), and fundamentally violate the laws of thermodynamics (as we know them). They can spontaneously generate energetic effects that are unerringly accurate, and are lethal to the average person (Magic Missile). They have access to interdimensional travel (Gate, Ethereal Jaunt, etc). They have the fundamental magical science that allows them to travel FTL (for limited distances), or create matter transposition portals (Teleport, Greater Teleport). They can even prevent teleportation and extraplanar travel (Dimensional Anchor). There are potent spells that allow full and complete creation of matter, and transmutation of matter. Sure, their teleportation magic isn't quite as well developed as a Farcaster (from Dragonstar...it's basically a magical FTL drive that is based around Teleportation magic). But I could certainly imagine such technology coming to pass in Eberron's future.
Charles Phipps 03-23-08, 09:31 PM	I think part of the problem that everyone is having is that Eberron is actually more advanced in fields of Quantum Theory than Earth. No, they don't know what superstring theory is but everyone knows FOR A FACT that alternate realities exist. It's not that hard to imagine a different cosmology existing just beneath yours once you've literally visited other dimensions. I guess what I'm trying to say is like "ALIENS FROM ANOTHER MULTIVERSE ARE ATTACKING! DOESN'T THAT BLOW YOUR MIND!?" in a really loud voice, except you're talking to Reed Richards from the Marvel Universe. A guy who regularly encounters the impossible by our standards.
Leliel 03-24-08, 03:19 PM	I think part of the problem that everyone is having is that Eberron is actually more advanced in fields of Quantum Theory than Earth. No, they don't know what superstring theory is but everyone knows FOR A FACT that alternate realities exist. It's not that hard to imagine a different cosmology existing just beneath yours once you've literally visited other dimensions. I guess what I'm trying to say is like "ALIENS FROM ANOTHER MULTIVERSE ARE ATTACKING! DOESN'T THAT BLOW YOUR MIND!?" in a really loud voice, except you're talking to Reed Richards from the Marvel Universe. A guy who regularly encounters the impossible by our standards. Oh... ...My error. And yes, Cloud Divider, I plan on making this setting winnable. In a, Call of Cthulhu, you-probably-won't-win-but-there's-going-to-be-bad-things-happening-if-you-don't kind of way way. :devil: Well, if all goes as planned, this will be easier then CoC, but I still go on planning to have my players get that winning-by-a-combination-of-skin-on-your-teeth-and-dumb-luck feeling. Thankfully, Eberron isn't stupid, and Nic'en technology is able to be reverse-engineered. It won't be easy, given that they are parsecs (incraments of about 3 light-years) ahead of Eberron in terms of tech, but give Cannith enough time, and they'll figure it out. Unfortunately, time is all the Nic'en have.
Charles Phipps 03-24-08, 03:28 PM	Yeah, I don't see any problem with the Alien Invasion issue. War of the Worlds is one of those books that deals with a Victorian setting having to deal with overwhelming force. Even there, the British manage to destroy at least one of the enemies' ships. Plus, Eberron is based on Doc Savage and other Pulp based heroes. So there's no problem with doing the "Death Star" thing where they blow things up. I'm just encouraging you, as you've noticed, that the scientists on Eberron aren't stupid and are pretty comic bookey. Frankly, its interesting to speculate on the reverse of the equation as well. Have the Nic'en ever encountered magic? Are they completely blown away that humans can heal by PRAYER? I'm just throwing out the fact that Eberron is a Pulp/Comic Book setting and they can't really be easilly shocked.
Edymnion 03-25-08, 10:10 PM	I just skimmed most of the thread after the first couple of posts, so did anyone mention yet that Eberron is, TMK, the only setting with an entire branch of society devoted specifically to defending the world from non-Eberron invaders? We've got the Gatekeeper Druids literally keeping extra-planar invaders locked out of the universe. We've got the Kalashtar fighting nightmares made flesh that want to take over the universe. Hell, Eberron has been invaded and attempted invaded so many times, I highly doubt one more is going to make that big of a difference. I mean, yes, its going to be chaos, and everybody is going to be up in arms, but no, it would not be a "OMG, we are not alone!" setting shattering event. I mean, there are characters walking around in Eberron that still personally remember the LAST time the Eberron prime material plane was invaded. We've got entire organized religions and quasi-religions dedicated to repelling extra-planar invasions. Of all settings, Eberron is probably the *WORST* one to try and shake up by invading this way. Eberron is pulp, and alien invasions are about as pulp as it gets.
Half_Dragon_Infernal 03-25-08, 10:22 PM	Edymnion, People did point out most of your points, except the fact about the organizations dedicated to stopping non-material invaders.
Rania 03-31-08, 05:51 PM	But still, knowing that something has happened before and expecting it to happen again are two completely different things. For a real-life example: My great-grandfather fought in WWI. My grandparents were children during WWII. My parents remember "nuclear-attack drills" from when they were little, during the Cold War. I was born just after the fall of the Berlin Wall. My uncle was a peace-keeper in Yugoslavia. And yet, none of us expected September 11. (Well, my great-grandfather is a long time dead, but that's beyond the point.) Sure, the people in Eberron -- or at least the ones who know heck -- know about the fiends, the quori, and the daelkyr. They expect a threat from those quarters (thirds?). The paranoid people with planar knowledge expect an attack from every single plane in existence that they know about. An alien invasion would cause a massive paradigm shift, as well as the "oh-gods-we're-completely-screwed-and-we're-all-going-to-die" of an extraplanar attack. Think about the Gatekeeper druids. They've devoted their whole lives to fending off alien intrusions, and it wasn't enough. Sure, it's from a different source, but the sentiment remains the same.
Sakon22 03-31-08, 10:21 PM	Ya know, I really hated this idea until Rania put it like that. Especially the "and it wasn't enough" bit. Looking at it that way (with several less hours of sleep,) this is a really epic idea. That or I too am getting in one of those "invasions from beyond" kinda moods.
Charles Phipps 03-31-08, 10:28 PM	Looking at it that way (with several less hours of sleep,) this is a really epic idea. That or I too am getting in one of those "invasions from beyond" kinda moods. For me, it's a perfectly valid idea. However, I see it going like this. * Mobs panic in the streets as the Martian Death Machines go blasting. * Secret Area 51 style bases are set up with House Cannith Artificers, Lyrander folk, and the top scientists in the world over what they have to work with. * Two fisted heroes prepare to invade the Alien Evil Camps to free their human prisoners. * At least one adventure will involve blowing up a mother ship from the inside. * The Dragons will proceed to unleash THE BIG :censored: GUN at one point to show Eberron is not helpless.
Rania 04-01-08, 12:09 PM	Ya know, I really hated this idea until Rania put it like that. Especially the "and it wasn't enough" bit.Ooh! ... * The Dragons will proceed to unleash THE BIG :censored: GUN at one point to show Eberron is not helpless.Now THAT would be sweet. But, I'm wondering how one could work this whole idea without using every single sci-fi cliche in the book.
Edymnion 04-01-08, 08:50 PM	But, I'm wondering how one could work this whole idea without using every single sci-fi cliche in the book.The Face of Eberron in Argonessa is a huge single block of stone over a mile long that looks almost perfectly like the head of a dragon that matches no known variety. Use your imagination. ;)
Rania 04-02-08, 02:59 PM	The Face of Eberron in Argonessa is a huge single block of stone over a mile long that looks almost perfectly like the head of a dragon that matches no known variety. Use your imagination. ;)WANT.
Mystrich 04-03-08, 03:38 PM	Well, he's the BBEG. You can't exactly expect him to be your "average" Nic'en, now can you. And no, I didn't say one of them is a match for a Daelkyr, I said that the Daelkyr are no match for the Nic'en fleet. An individual Nic'en is about as dead as you or I. Except you said one can kill an Eberron Dragon. Eberron dragons fought off all of the other invasions for a reason, they are some of (with individuals perhaps actually) the strongest creatures on Eberron with their species easily giving CR 20 with high levels in many classes.
Leliel 04-05-08, 04:32 PM	Sorry. By "fighter", I meant "star fighter". Once again, an average Nic'en, sans fighter, is about as dead as you or I.
Edymnion 04-05-08, 09:41 PM	Once again, an average Nic'en, sans fighter, is about as dead as you or I.Ah, so basically its Independence Day. All I need is a trash talking Lyrander pilot, a nerdy Cannith artificer, and a scroll of Contaigen. We fly up to the mothership, cast Contaigen on the head whatever, and then it'll trickle back down, infecting all the others for an easy victory. :)
Sakon22 04-06-08, 11:09 PM	Oh, well then that is relatively plausible. Though, (to actually add something contructive to this thread,) I think if your going for the whole 'beyond the multiverse thing, you should start by having these 'beings' invade some of the other planes first. Shavarath is one I would suggest. Once people start hearing about refugees from the battleground plane being displaced because their plane was invaded, they'd start to get the feeling that something horrible was happening. Or maybe have incursions into Dal Quor if the BBEG is so paranoid of the Dreaming Dark. He might be thinking that if he gets rid of that power, his future footholds on Eberron would be more secured. Plus it would give the players a moral dilemma between helping the Inspired or saving Eberron from a future alien threat.
Gurv 04-07-08, 05:59 AM	Oh, well then that is relatively plausible. Though, (to actually add something contructive to this thread,) I think if your going for the whole 'beyond the multiverse thing, you should start by having these 'beings' invade some of the other planes first. This is the best idea I've heard so far for making the concept work the way the OP wants it to. Don't invade Eberron; invade the cosmology itself. Thats the ticket.
Rania 04-07-08, 11:38 AM	This is the best idea I've heard so far for making the concept work the way the OP wants it to. Don't invade Eberron; invade the cosmology itself. Thats the ticket.However, I seem to recall reading somewhere that a bunch of people are -- not quite skeptical about the planes, but aren't really sure they exist as some say they do. (Think global warming; a bunch of what some say are proofs could be interpreted another way. It might exist, and it might not.) So then you'll get another source of freak-out. But I just think the Eberron setting is cool; I haven't had the opportunity to play in it yet, nor have I memorized the sourcebooks.
Charles Phipps 04-07-08, 05:29 PM	Bizarrely, does this inspire anyone to want to do a Robotech meets Eberron thread?
Paulon 04-07-08, 07:17 PM	Shouldn't that be 'Bizarrely, does this inspire anyone else to want to do a Robotech meets Eberron thread?', at least judging by Wrath of the Lich Queen? ;)
Charles Phipps 04-07-08, 07:28 PM	No, no, that's Gundam meets Eberron. Robotech is next adventure :shifty:
demonfey02 04-07-08, 07:54 PM	As well as part of Mid_knight's thing already. Anyway, I like the idea of invading an entire cosmology at once. It could open up the chance to have multiple groups running at once, on separate planes, that meet up at some later point, or give the single group the added feeling of how small the threat their plane offers on its own is when they find out. Or add an "oh :censored:!" moment when they find out that this isn't even the majority of the fleet.
Edymnion 04-07-08, 08:02 PM	Hey, I've got Dragonmech. ;) Actually, a lot of the Dragonmech "freak" classes would work well with Eberron races. Can't remember it off the top of my head, but the class that integrates it's body into the mech it pilots, that could work very nicely for a Warforged. Who knows, if you go that route, its quite possible there are warforged mecha hiding in Xen'Drik. After all, the Quori built the Warforged to escape Dal'Quor and fight the Giants, wouldn't it make sense if they had some shells that were as big as the giants?
strange_person 05-17-08, 06:17 AM	If you want to do the numbers for realistic orbital missions, without having to work completely from scratch with a non-earth-sized world, this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=683655) might be useful. Don't forget the Undying Court. Acting together, they've got god-like powers, but individually they're still more-or-less approachable. Covers the "gather the Joint Chiefs and prepare the Big Red Button" scene.
Saxaholic 05-18-08, 02:02 AM	But, I'm wondering how one could work this whole idea without using every single sci-fi cliche in the book. I'm pretty sure cliches are the point here. :) I like the progresson of scale here, how every time the foe seems surmountable, things get worse: 1. Martian scout attacks a Karrnathi fort and obliterates it 2. Kaius I/III uses his undead legions to take down the scout 3. Wave of ships come in, take out undead legions 4. The kingdom of Galifar re-unites, and takes out the wave 5. The fleet comes in, takes out the capitals a la independance day 6. The undying court and gatekeeper druids come out to play, crippling the fleet 7. The mothership comes in and suddenly the Eldeen Reeches is called the Great Planes 8. The halflings throw some rocks (think ewoks) 9. The pulp heroes come in and save the day.
Rania 05-18-08, 08:51 PM	Bizarrely, does this inspire anyone to want to do a Robotech meets Eberron thread?What's Robotech? Anyway, I like the idea of invading an entire cosmology at once. It could open up the chance to have multiple groups running at once, on separate planes, that meet up at some later point, or give the single group the added feeling of how small the threat their plane offers on its own is when they find out. Or add an "oh :censored:!" moment when they find out that this isn't even the majority of the fleet.Ni~ce. @Saxoholic (couldn't figure out how to quote three posts): It might be less realistic, but it'd be EFFING SWEET if the halflings threw DINOSAURS instead.
strange_person 05-18-08, 09:41 PM	There are rules in Heroes of Battle for dive-bombing, potentially allowing relatively low-carrying-capacity flyers to drop 20d6 rocks with pinpoint accuracy.
Rania 05-18-08, 11:11 PM	There are rules in Heroes of Battle for dive-bombing, potentially allowing relatively low-carrying-capacity flyers to drop 20d6 rocks with pinpoint accuracy.But it'd still be cooler to throw dinosaurs! Not sure how it'd work though....
strange_person 05-19-08, 01:36 AM	Work out some downgraded Bag of Holding equivalent, like a one-shot Rope Trick effect that's tied to an item rather than a fixed point in space. There's a precedent (Stronghold Builder's Guidebook) that a magic item weighing 200 pounds and bulky enough that no single medium-sized character, regardless of strength, could easily carry it, would be substantially cheaper than an item of equivalent function but greater portability. If possible, get a further price-break by reducing the duration from hours to minutes, and putting further restrictions on the effect (everyone has to enter simultaneously, when the item is activated, leave simultaneously at the end, no window to the outside, etc). Load your shock troops (which could include dinosaurs) into the 'extradimensional assault boat.' A glidewing carries the payload to a point 200' above the target, dives 160', and releases. No range penalty, +2 on the attack roll from charging, so it's probably accurate enough to hit a large, slow-moving troop transport, mobile command post, supply wagon, or suchlike. Glidewing recovers from AC penalty just before passing through point-blank range (30') of target's defensive guns, and thus can use Total Defense action while at closest point of flyby, slightly increasing chances of survival. 20d6 damage from the impact itself; enough to shatter the projectile, ending the extradimensional storage effect and ejecting the shock troopers. If the impact was sufficient to breach the target's hull, you've now got a squad of elite infantry behind enemy lines, possibly directly inside a (damaged) enemy vehicle. If you want to drop dinosaurs directly, remember to enchant the barding with the Anti-Impact quality (Complete Warrior) to cut falling damage in half and thereby render the process at least somewhat survivable.
Rania 05-19-08, 02:01 AM	Work out some downgraded Bag of Holding equivalent, like a one-shot Rope Trick effect that's tied to an item rather than a fixed point in space. There's a precedent (Stronghold Builder's Guidebook) that a magic item weighing 200 pounds and bulky enough that no single medium-sized character, regardless of strength, could easily carry it, would be substantially cheaper than an item of equivalent function but greater portability. If possible, get a further price-break by reducing the duration from hours to minutes, and putting further restrictions on the effect (everyone has to enter simultaneously, when the item is activated, leave simultaneously at the end, no window to the outside, etc). Load your shock troops (which could include dinosaurs) into the 'extradimensional assault boat.' A glidewing carries the payload to a point 200' above the target, dives 160', and releases. No range penalty, +2 on the attack roll from charging, so it's probably accurate enough to hit a large, slow-moving troop transport, mobile command post, supply wagon, or suchlike. Glidewing recovers from AC penalty just before passing through point-blank range (30') of target's defensive guns, and thus can use Total Defense action while at closest point of flyby, slightly increasing chances of survival. 20d6 damage from the impact itself; enough to shatter the projectile, ending the extradimensional storage effect and ejecting the shock troopers. If the impact was sufficient to breach the target's hull, you've now got a squad of elite infantry behind enemy lines, possibly directly inside a (damaged) enemy vehicle. If you want to drop dinosaurs directly, remember to enchant the barding with the Anti-Impact quality (Complete Warrior) to cut falling damage in half and thereby render the process at least somewhat survivable.You get :cookie: :cookie: for giving a serious answer for how to drop dinosaurs on somebody! :D ...I have GOT to work throwing dinosaurs on somebody into the next campaign I'm in.
strange_person 05-30-08, 01:03 AM	A powerful shock-trooper, and walking adventure hook into the whole "cosmology-spanning" aspect: Living Plane Shift.
Edymnion 05-30-08, 12:46 PM	What's Robotech?Robotech was an 80's cartoon consisting of three spliced together anime series that was, I believe, the first time American audiences had ever been exposed to the idea of an epic storyline with constantly evolving plot and characters in an animated form. The main period of Robotech that he is most likely referring to involves a a future setting where humans are forced to defend themselves from an invasion of giant humanoid aliens. In order to do this, weapons called Veritechs were created. Veritechs normally looked like slightly futuristic jet fighter planes but could transform into humanoid battle robots (which were the same size as the invading aliens, allowing the puny humans to go toe to toe with the baddies). If you've ever heard the term "Macross Missile Massacre" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre), this is where it came from (well, it came from Macross, but Macross was one of the shows that was merged together to create Robotech). If you haven't, it refers to launching a bajillion missiles in every direction with visible comtrails that then turn in mid air and all shoot straight at the same target. It is generally considered one of the greatest pieces of american animation ever, mainly because while it was adapted from anime, the plot line and characters from three totally seperate shows were spliced together almost seemlessly into a whole new show. Its also held up as virtually the only example of when american editing actually IMPROVED an anime.
Ornito 05-30-08, 01:46 PM	I think a interesting plot point in this campaign concept would be whether magic overrules physics or not. For instance, if you dimensional anchor a Ni'cen can he later escape Eberron using his space ship or does he find himself stuck with nothing he can explain causing it? The conflict this causes is that physics ultimately has rules and those rules apply to everyone whereas magic tends to find rules and then find fun ways to get around them or ignore them completely. Incidentally if the invasion of Eberron fails then you'd hope that they somehow keep their tech from falling into the hands of the people of Eberron. There's nothing in the Treaty of Thronehold regarding foreign wars and I'm sure there's plenty of Karrns and Valenar who would really like the opportunity to just go somewhere and have a nice little war. Maybe set up a colony, maybe not.
strange_person 05-30-08, 03:05 PM	I'd say a Dimensional Anchor effect is just as capable of stopping a 'technological' interdimensional-transport effect (such as a vehicle with some kind of warp drive) as a Wall of Force is capable of stopping a purely-technological vehicle from moving through conventional space. The really tricky part is, will a True Seeing effect be sufficient to negate high-tech active camo that's equivalent to invisibility?
Elrodian 05-30-08, 04:02 PM	He's implying that one of his 'Nice'ns' is the match of a Daelkyr and that one of them absorbed a Quori, causing the Mourning. It sounds rather absurd to me. i with you I think this story is not very good. It sounds like a total sci-fi with no magic. The thing that gets be is the word "fleet", so they have space ships. I real do not think that this goes with Eberron at all. the other invaders used magic but you are put alot of tech and little magic. The think with the Daelkyr is real bad too becues you are say that they can distroy one of the powerful thing in the world by themself. This is like trying to put Star War with Lord of the Rings. On Eberron magic is like science on earth. that is what i think. i would say that they created a portal to Eberron and got in that way i also would say that they can talk down a Daelkyr but with a small group not with just one person.
Edymnion 06-01-08, 10:16 PM	Well, two routes to get to the same answer: 1) Either its mundane technology, and hence magic would override it since magic always overrides mundane objects, or 2) Technology or Finger Waggling, they both tap into the same effect, at which point its magic, and we already know dimensional anchor blocks magic. So, either way, magic would stop the machines.
nobodez_here 06-02-08, 02:38 AM	I'm doing something akin to this in my Eberron campaign. I used the "Mask of Diamond Tears" adventure from Dragon a year or two back, and when the Ethergaunt got away, I decided to expand things a bit. Because I'm using the Ethergaunts, I have a great high-tech/high-magic foe, links to the history of Xen'drik (pyramids and cyclopean menhirs), and a long vacancy from the Material Plane. I'm borrowing some themes from Stargate, as well as Independence Day and War of the Worlds. The thing is, before I ran the adventure, I was playing with a different story line, with alternate PMPs accessed via Deep Shadow. I'm thinking of having them invade as well. So, now that my PCs are 15th level, it's time to shake some things up. Ethergaunts and their Legion Devil and Mirror Eberron Armies versus a Pan-Planar Necromantic Alliance and their Undead and Alternate Prime Material Plane Armires versus the Five Nations and their House Denieth Armies, and my PCs. I'm going for an Epic storyline with a bit of Shark Jumping before ending the campaign with a splash of Time Travel and the help of the Gatekeepers to bring me in the Eberron 4e.
Elrodian 06-02-08, 04:10 PM	do not get me wrong i all for High tech/high magic but i seem to me that it was all tech
Famoth83 06-02-08, 11:19 PM	After reading this entire thread, I'm surprised talk of the Draconic Prophecy haven't come up yet. I mean, the Draconic Prophecy has in some way laid out and planned for the dimensional invasions from the other planes of existance from within it's own cosmology. Are your alien invaders really so different? If not, then Draconic Prophecy has predicted their arrivial and no dragon outside the Chamber is likely to lift a claw in the grand invasion. But, if the alien invaders are outside of the controling influence of the Draconic Prophecy, then at the very least the alien invaders will be the first thing since the destruction of Xendrik to feel the full destructive might of the dragons. Unrestained, and most likely not limited to just their statistic block in the monster manuals. Even limiting them to their statistic blocks... I honest think you're underestimating the kind of power 3.5 dragons can bring to bear against these alien invaders. Dragons aren't just large brutes, they are spells casters; great wyrm dragons are level 19 sorcerers. Imagine how much a single well placed Prismatic Sphere could alter a fight between your space fighters and the dragons. Or Dominate Monster. And that would be the least of the reactions if the alien invaders are completely outside the control of the draconic prophecy. How would the prophecy would react? Passive, or with an agressive immune responce? Imagine if dragon mark styled spell storms followed the invaders wherever they tried to take a foot hold. Or the dragon marked scions around them expierienced sudden, painful, and sanity threatening bursts of power as the prophecy acted through them to try and repel the foriegn substance from it's web of fate. It's certainly an interesting thought to me: Triple Armedgedon. One, alien invastion. Two, Forgotten Realm style spell storms following the aliens in their wake. Three, the dragon marked going insane with incredible power in a Wheel of Time style Sundering. By the time the dust settles, Eberron would be ready for the Points of Light setting.
WolfHati 06-03-08, 02:55 AM	I want to point out that invading Eberron would be a good deal different from merely invading Khorvaire. While Eberron can appear to be a low power setting, I really think the average Khorvarian is in the same situation as the average person in a Lovecraft story, surrounded by mind-bendingly terrifying powers that could destroy them in a blink if they considered them anything mroe than... well if they even considered them at all. The Lords of Dust, the Quori and the Sarlonans, the Dragons, a nation of elves who have fought off dragons, the Daelkyr, an Order of Druids who stopped the Daelkyr, and who knows what else... all these forces vie to further their agenda through deceit, schemes, and treachery more than by fighting and force, which is the only thing that keeps the nations of Khorvaire from being crumbled and swept aside. And very few of the factions would take kindly to outside forces moving in to Eberron and disrupting their carefully laid plans...
Ardegrath 06-03-08, 10:04 AM	I'm still waiting for people to start mentioning the lords of dust. If really big powerfull beings comes that are as suceptible as any eberron character to magics and etc with only their "gear" to make them uberly powerful, it means that the lords of dust can influence them to free the raksha rajas. Then you no longer have an invasion but instead semi-gods roaming the earth with newly almost unstoppable minnions in eberron. BTW blowing everything up in the eldeen reaches = bad, Cause it means you are letting loose all the things that can't be killed that are instead being held. Remember the age of demons the villains where even more powerfull than the mightiest of dragons. So while Eberron is generally kept as a low power world (so to speak), it is filled with a million and a half things to be completely epic. So after the aliens invade and are driven off by the rajas then the heroes have to deal with getting rid of an immortal character. Sounds fun if not overly complicated.
fletch137 06-05-08, 12:55 PM	There are a lot of fun ideas in the OP’s premise. The idea of the Mourning being caused by something not at all remotely related to the war is something I hadn’t even considered. As to the original question, though, I think you could pull one trick that would really make the residents of Eberron go “Aw crud!” What if the natives all woke up one morning and saw the Ring of Syberis go pfffft and just blow away like dust? In their first maneuver, these extra-cosmological invaders have reshaped the heavens, defied the draconic prophecies, and possibly even have altered the way arcane and divine magic work in the world. There’s a lot to like in this concept. The only thing I’d recommend changing is finding a name for the invaders that doesn’t have the word “nice” in it. I don’t care how guttural you make that apostrophe, you’ll be one session in before your players start calling them the “nice ‘uns.”
strange_person 06-05-08, 01:17 PM	There's something to be said for the intimidation value of euphemism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindly_Ones)