Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nick012000 03-28-05, 07:14 AM	I just got this idea, and found it amusing. Somehow, the inhabitants of Eberron and FR gain easy access to each other's worlds, and a giant war breaks out. Who do you think would win? Let's define 'easy access' as 'no more logistically complex or expensive than waging a similar war on your own world', and that it works both ways. As for the cause of the war, let's just say that the FR gods ordered their followers to attack, or something similarly irrational. No trolling or flaming. Let's try to use reasoned arguement here.
Ramius_Mordale 03-28-05, 08:14 AM	Eberron vs. Toril, well I'll give them the dragons and the warmachines but in the long run Toril would win. First off, Eberron is suffering (at least Khorvaire continent) from a massive war that lasted a whole century where as most wars on Toril last only a hand full of months to a few years at most with their wars. Eberron is seriously suffering from war attrition in many of the kingdoms not to mention internal conflicts between fueding dragonmark houses and kingdoms still suffering internally and some still have external threats to deal with. Toril, while it also has these problems it suffer a lot less because of the deal with numerous untouched civilizations by the Shades. Mulhorand is starting its third empire and nearly has conquered Unther. Thay hasn't warred all out with anybody but with the occassional fued in a while with their neighbors and has actually started up a magical trade of items. The Shades have returned and are a considerable threat because of their Shadow Weave magic and their numerous archwizards, which also may I add Toril already has numerous other archwizards besides that and chosen of their gods. Each church has considerably high level (some epic but most around the 15th to 20th level mark) leaders leading a fair number of churches spread across the continent and lets not forget Dragons that currently seem to be raging. All in all, the epic magic that Faerun has versus all the goodies Eberron has with warmachines while Eberron would not be a push-over persay it wouldn't last a 100 years much less 1 year in a war with Toril. Unless of course the Silver Flame church becomes dissolved or changes from keeping the demons imprisoned to actively bargining with them and the Dragons suddenly decided to jump in then most likely Eberron would be conquered rather quickly with many casualties on both sides. Though I have to admit I am curious how the Church of the Silver Flame would react to the Selunite Churches acceptance of lycanthropes. And yes I factored in the Eldrich machines that could be created, but I assure you seeing most of the artifacts that Toril has alone, that those machines would probably only allow them to resist for as long as they would with a one on one fist fight with Toril. Now if after they are conquered that would be a different story. They may be able to fight that way for a long while but Toril has dealt and uses such tactics against itself, so really Eberron has only one real chance to win. And that is to pray for some odd fluke and beat them decisively in the first few massive battle exchanges in the first few rounds of the war in order to reboot their creation forges, gain more experienced and armed troops and make many eldrich machines as they can and wear down the enemy until they give in to attrition. Now that's if Toril was the first to invade, if Eberron was the first then the war could last on Toril for maybe a great number of months maybe even a year or two (this is assuming they've regrouped the nations and have their creation forges up and running again) if they try to proceed to build up forces quietly in Toril first and establish bases for defense. Now once Toril's war machine got clicking then Eberron would not only take serious losses but a considerable shock at the awesome power presented before them. Archwizards usually have little contempt for being bruised and noting that Eberron has very very rare people even above 20th level I'd say that is a fair assestment. Again to save face, if Eberron's forces some how get a fluke chance on Toril and disrupt them they may be able to hold on to their land holdings there but it would not be much and they would still have to deal with considerable backlash with their world considering the archwizards and epic characters that Toril has available for themselves. Yes I probably just signed my death warrant by even posting to this thread and will be booed and hunted with torches and pitchforks by the mob but I'm an optimist to a point then my realistic mind sets in. Facts are facts and while their is certainly a chance Eberron might be able to win a war with Toril it his highly improbable and needs a considerable amount of luck and extreme skill that I don't think Eberron can even hope to achieve considering its nature. *Starts casting his defensive spells of protection against the angry mob* -Ramius-
DarkWarriorKarg 03-28-05, 10:14 AM	While the Cosen of Mystra work to seal whatever gate allows this, The entire invading host of bad guys from Faerun is held back by a single drow warrior wielding dual scimitars and the major artifact known as the "Quill of Salvatore". The Quill, only in the posession of CG drow ranger/barbarian/fighters, allows the possessor to circumvent reality and triumph against all odds. The random adventuring group from Eberron that tags along simply watches in awe.
Endless_Helix 03-28-05, 10:46 AM	In any shape or form Eberron would get destroyed by any country in FR. Just the sheer volume of high level characters would overwhelm it in about 2 or 3 minutes. Even if everything in eberron united, Thay alone would just rip it to shreads, probably a remote hamlet hidden in some random, but peaceful spot could take Breland in a straight fight, because it has at least twenty high level characters (for FR) in the town, and another fifty nearby in the woods or in wizard's towers. All of the magic items is what swings the balance, the POWERFUL magic items. Because all these high level characters are immune to all energy damage, and have damage reduction 15/- or higher, and have spell resitence 40 or higher, little guys can't deal with them, even en masse. If these were stolen then it would be more fair, but FR would still win The armies of FR wouldn't last long against an eberronian force. The volume of magical firepower that can nail normal people is much more prominant. 100 magewrights with wands of magic missle would be very powerful against FR where the armies are still fairly mundane. Aundaire could definately defeat the ARMIES of Thay without trouble, it's just that it's queen would be knocked off and replaced by a rogue20/master spy7/wizard20/archmage 10/red wizard of thay10(IIRC, i don't own the FR books) with the mask of faces or whatever it's called. Aundaire would then surrender unconditionally and become a province of Thay. Rinse, repeat with any other nation. There wouldn't really be a war after the first few battles. It would become an intrigue because direct battle would be where FR has a disadvantage. It has a lot of artifacts and unique magic items, but they don't have enough straight power in their military. Cannith can produce magic items cheaply and efficiently and would give the armies of the five nations generous wholesale deals considering the amount they'd buy. Warforged would be back in production and the LOBster would probably ally with the five nations temporarily, just to see the enemies out. Valenar would have the greatest chance to win against the high level characters because it is the highest concentration of characters over 6th level.
snikt-snikt 03-28-05, 10:56 AM	Agreed... The sheer number of people in Toril that have PC classes plus the fact that many of them are high level would easily triumph over the people of eberron. Perhaps if the battle took place berfore the Last War then Eberron could have stood a chance, but not now. There are two possiblities for Ebberon to triumph 1) Riedra may be able to defend itself and/or negotiate though skillful diplomacy long enough for the Quori to start infiltrating the ranks of Toril after a while and if the are sneaky enough they could gain control of MANY high level characters from the forgotten realms. 2) The dragons of ebberon are much more powerful as a whole than the dragons of toril. Eberron dragons are unified and most likely much more powerful and older than most toril dragons. this is due to the fact that they don't have many dragon hunters to worry about in low level eberron and they have a whole continent, culture, civilization to themselves. If the dragons of eberron stepped up then many from toril woudl fall.
TranquilDarkness 03-28-05, 11:35 AM	Aside from the many, many ludicrously powerful human(oid)s on Toril - don't overlook the Gods. Eberron has none (that will materialize and kick butt), while Toril has so many they have Divine Beings to acts as expendable stormtroopers. I'd say in any form of serious contact, Eberron would be a goner. Unless of course the Draconic Prophecy simply says 'No' :P
Orion Polaris 03-28-05, 12:19 PM	I dunno, I think Eberron DOES have a chance, I mean, they do have a continent of Dragons afterall, not to mention the Lords Of Dust, Dol Quori, and the Dalkyer(SP?)... I doubt that they'd be so easily defeated. Dragonmagic in the hands of the Giants was capable of sinking parts of Xen'Drik and SEVERING planar connections... Imagine how powerful that magic is in the hands of people who know how to use it to it's fullest extent!
TranquilDarkness 03-28-05, 12:34 PM	Well, the reaction of the dragons would depend on the Prophecy, I guess - and while the dragons of Argonessen have proven to be powerful, I have no clue how their power and numbers compare with their Torilian cousins. The Lords of Dust, Daelkyr and Quori all probably wouldn't lift a finger to protect a land they have been trying for eons to destroy.
Dex The King 03-28-05, 02:18 PM	Eberron vs. Toril . . . hmmmm. The way I see it, there are two distinct possibilities. For the first I'm gonna say Eberron. On both sides there is no single unified force. There is no world spanning empire on either, they each have their own problems to deal with. No realtively small nation on either world will be able to do much. If Thay sends troops into Q'Barra, then Cormyr invades immediately, just as if Aundair goes to war in Thay then Karrnath or Thrane would also invade. The only nations that will go to war with each other directly are those with secure homefronts. Which is why, if you ask me, Eberron will win out. The Inspired's Riedran empire could bring it's full continent spanning armies to bear against parts of Toril without fears of reprisal from Khorvaire. The same goes for Argonessen even more so. The dragons would likely look on Toril as a great problem in the grand scheme, they are so used to knowing the Prophecy that an easily accesible world not governed by it would threaten their concept of existence. And, c'mon, an entire unified nation of dragons, some of which have epic scale magic (Thay could be the next Cyre), will crush any country on Faerun lacking direct divine intervention. The other possibility is there is no clear distinction of sides. Some of the governments on Toril could get along great with those of Eberron, and vice versa. Therefore, in this particular scenario, the sides would not be defined as simply all of Eberron vs. all of Toril. There would be interplanetary alliances between powers that opposed other alliances. Now, unfortunately, it would take a political expert familiar with both settings to be able to even begin to define who these conglomerates would in fact consist of and who they would likely fight against, none the less actually hope to predict the winners. Interesting topic, by the way.
Endless_Helix 03-28-05, 02:26 PM	Drizzt, Drow munchkin, could take quite a few dragons. If he had his usual gang, Wulfgar, Cattie Brie, Bruenor, Regis, then most of argonnessen would be either dead or in hiding. Then add in Elminister, chosen of the munchkin. Most adventurers would jump at the chance to fight in another world, where they can get away from the shadow of those uber-chars. It just isn't a fair match because the games are oriented towords two different themes, one is high fantasy, with it's numerous epic characters, and the other emphasizes lower levels and a more gritty, pulpy style. One props the kings of the heap and one props the underdog.
Dansan 03-28-05, 03:02 PM	The mere fact that the FR have a lot of high level characters, including some really high level characters, and Eberron has just a few somewhat higher level characters, is probably enough basis to say the FR would win.
Beleriphon 03-28-05, 03:25 PM	I dunno, I think Eberron DOES have a chance, I mean, they do have a continent of Dragons afterall, not to mention the Lords Of Dust, Dol Quori, and the Dalkyer(SP?)... I doubt that they'd be so easily defeated. Dragonmagic in the hands of the Giants was capable of sinking parts of Xen'Drik and SEVERING planar connections... So we let loose the dogs of war, IE. the Rajahs on Toril. We say hey fellas look at that world ripe for the picking, go to and leave us alone. We'll even help you get there. Once we boot them out the door we seal it shut, tight and don't let them in ever again, since they pee on the carpet. Stupid cats.
Ayers 03-28-05, 03:35 PM	I don't know, I think that Toril would have an advanted but there would also be several good things going for Eberron too. Now, the way I see things would be that in-fighting amongst Toril would be more beneficial to Eberron, than the in-fighting in Eberron is for Toril. What I mean for this is simply that, many nations throughout Toril would love for one of their neighbours to deploy their forces on another world. That would just give them the chance to jump right in there and expand their empire. I think that Toril's greatest problem would be first getting their forces off of their world. I think that Toril could be modeled closely to Earth in this miltary fashion, being that no one wants to move their forces, for fear of being attacked. Also, you could think of the fact that Toril does have the Underdark as well, and I'm pretty sure that the Drow -- at least the Drow -- would just love for everyone on the surface to move their forces off to another world. But if by some miracle everyone managed to mobolize their forces and put them on Eberron, then I think that it would still be kind of iffy. Sure overwhelming numbers would make a war of attrition a very obvious choice for Toril, but still who would want to lose all their army, afterall they're going to need something to defend their own lands with. If a war of attrition was fought by Toril, then Toril would most likely win, but with dire reprecussions in their own world. Because of this I believe that Eberron would lose the war, if it was fought in their world with Toril using a war of attrition. Any other attempts in fighting Eberron would be somewhat interesting to see, but I think that ultimately Eberron would win. If this war was to be fought on the world of Toril, then I am almost certain that the Eberronnians (if it's a word...) would fight a very difficult war, one that they would most likely lose. Because of the amount of land that Toril covers, the Eberronnian forces would be really thinned. If the war was to be fought on Faerun alone, then the Eberronians would probably still face a rather difficult war. This war would be one probably in which they would need to fight a Blitzkrieg, so to speak. One in which they mounted a strong lighting and surgical strike into Faerun. Obviously it would depend on how unaware Faerun is, but Eberron could probably advance fairly deep into Faerun. The next stage would need them to build defences, and gather resources, and finally a push into the rest of Faerun. If this war was to be fought on both worlds -- by means of a gateway of somesort which lead to different parts of the world, or a spell that allowed them to move to other parts of the world -- then the war would most likely be destructive for both worlds. However, I believe that Eberron would manage to hold it's ground for a bit, but it would ultimately be a futile struggle. So to basically sum up this: If fought on Eberron, Toril would win if fighting a war of attrition. If fought on Toril, Eberron would need to attacked with precision, and in a blitzkreig (lightning strike). If fought on both worlds, Eberron would most likely lose the war. So, in conclusion it could go either way depending on where and how the war would be fought. However, I do see Eberron as being the more likely to lose.
Hellcow 03-28-05, 03:36 PM	There's no question that Khorvaire would be clobbered in the blink of an eye because of the sheer lack of epic level characters - which is, of course, intentional. The big mystery is Argonnessen. It's quite possible that we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dragons - if not millions! Remember that they are the oldest existing race on Eberron, and have been around for millions of years. They utterly destroyed a continent-spanning civilization that had enough magical power in its own right to sever planar connections, and that was 30,000 years ago. They do possess artifacts - after all, the primary source of artificats is Xen'drik, and the dragons trump that. So I'd say it's less a question of Toril vs Eberron, and more Toril vs. the dragons of Eberron. And yes, the rakshasa rajahs are supposed to be figures of godlike power (after all, even an army of dragons could not destroy them), so if they were unleashed they could probably challenge Toril gods. But releasing the rajahs to save Eberron would be kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face...
Beleriphon 03-28-05, 03:44 PM	And yes, the rakshasa rajahs are supposed to be figures of godlike power (after all, even an army of dragons could not destroy them), so if they were unleashed they could probably challenge Toril gods. But releasing the rajahs to save Eberron would be kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face... That is true, but it seems just the kind of thing that certain factions in Eberron would do to save themselves. Thinking they can spin webs with beings of god like might. I wouldn't put it past at least one of the Dragonmarked house to give it a go.
Kinger 03-28-05, 05:42 PM	If the question is "all of Eb" vs. "all of FR", sans any political problems ("What? Breland attack with Karrnath?? The LoB cooperating with the weak-fleshed? Rajahs actually HELPING one another?") than it's actually a tough call, in my books. IF you go with only those in the settings that actually possess statistics (so, all those nifty NPCs from FR and... uh... Rurik d'Kundarak) then I'm thinking FR would cream poor ol' Ebb, what with all the nigh-epic heroes and the fact you can go to any corner pub and pick up a god or two. Eberron would be able to dish back a nasty blow, however, and y'know how? 2 words: Mournland, and Living Disjunction. Wait, that's three. ANYWAY... Get those high-and-mighty CG Drow and such to have the fight in the Mournland for a while. What's that? You can't heal? Well... Bugger! My warforged can! And the hundred-odd 'forged magewrights can Magic Missile your munchkin behind back to Khyber and back. Then, Ebby can sneakily introduce a few Living Disjunction spells into FR. "Heh, it's just an oo- OH DEAR GOD!! MY TWINKED OUT GEAR!!" Now, if we were going to include absol-bloody-lutely everything (as in that which has been unstatted in Eberron since it's supposed to be rather insurmountable) then Eberron has numerous forces at its disposal that could rock Toril to its very core. Hellcow mentioned the CONTINENT of dragons and(assuming they could be used) the near-divine rajahs buried beneath the earth, then there's whatever caused the Mourning, and who knows how many artifacts of Giant creation? That, and Eberron has an incredible logistical advantage over FR for fighting on its own turf. Sure, a mage can teleport with 50 pounds of supplies or whatnot, but only a few times a day, right? I'm pretty sure a Lightning Rail can bring several TONS of supplies across a continent in about the same span, PLUS the soldiers to reinforce. Of course, then FR just says "Well, my deities have Alter Reality, so poo to you with knobs on!"
a_psh 03-28-05, 08:42 PM	1000000 different players would send in their character sheets, all labeled "Elminstar" or "Eleminster" or "Elmaster" or "Drizzzzzt" or "Drizzit" or "Droozzt" (that's over 1892819839012890312 templates!... each) as proof that they are more awesome than the gods themselves, complete with character histories that look like collages made of novel pages, demanding that they get experience for killing all the NPCs whose epic-engorged stat blocks take up one quarter of the FRCS before some lowly level-13 upstarts from another world get a crack at them, and then cast Empowered Maximized Quickened Epic Mega-Hellball and blow up all of Eberron and demand that they get experience for that, too. Oh, and at least one of them would be named "Drizztminster".
stembolt 03-28-05, 09:08 PM	The argument is of course largely irrelevant but comparing the two worlds is like comparing The Rock to Harrison Ford. If they fought the rock would win, hands down. On the other hand if we compared the movies they have been in, Harrison Ford wins. If we compare acting talent, again we get Ford. This is like the old “star wars” vs “star trek“ argument. In FR if the gods decide it, it happens. If Mystra wants to shut off magic, it is done. Eberron has no such mechanism. It is like the Enterprise flying circles around a star destroyer. They are different worlds. There is no meaningful comparison between a low quality world, like forgotten realms, and a well constructed world like Eberron. Yes FR is, for lack of a better word, laden with munchkiny stuff. In every other way Eberron is superior. So I guess if you like Munchkiny stuff FR is a good choice.
Von Ether 03-29-05, 12:40 AM	Valenar would have the greatest chance to win against the high level characters because it is the highest concentration of characters over 6th level. While Hellcow had the most knowledgable quote, this one was the most amusing. Which still bring us to a perplexing problem, thanks to Drizzit. No matter who loses, it means the elves win.
Gilganarz_the_reporter 03-29-05, 01:21 AM	How come I never got feedback like this on my thread? It was all "its a stupid idea for Eberron to get access to Toril"
Hellcow 03-29-05, 01:34 AM	How come I never got feedback like this on my thread? It was all "its a stupid idea for Eberron to get access to Toril" Well, because it IS a stupid idea for Eberron to get access to Toril. I never said it wasn't. ;)
stembolt 03-29-05, 02:03 AM	How come I never got feedback like this on my thread? It was all "its a stupid idea for Eberron to get access to Toril" The problem is you couldn’t hear us nodding. To nip this stuff in the bud. It makes as much sense to link Toril and Eberron as it does to link Eberron and Sealab 2021.
TheRedRobedWizard 03-29-05, 02:12 AM	Captain Murphy vs Merrix d'Cannith Two men enter, one man leaves. Thunderdome. -TRRW (PS: My money is on Captain Murphy. Rainbow Afro Wig, I <3 Warforged, "Mournlands" *drool* boy's got nothing on him.)
Save-vs-DM 03-29-05, 05:03 AM	Wow, I needed this thread - how absurdly silly (like 3 days early) and fun! Thanks for the laughs. I have to say, the whole While the Cosen of Mystra work to seal whatever gate allows this, The entire invading host of bad guys from Faerun is held back by a single drow warrior wielding dual scimitars and the major artifact known as the "Quill of Salvatore". The Quill, only in the posession of CG drow ranger/barbarian/fighters, allows the possessor to circumvent reality and triumph against all odds. The random adventuring group from Eberron that tags along simply watches in awe. Made me shoot soda out my nose (you will be getting a bill for a new keyboard, mister!)! Great line. Cheers, SvD
Lina_Inverse 03-29-05, 05:30 AM	im going to go with ebberon.sure the main ebberon caimpaign area isnt epic beyond belief. but youve got a continent of dragons.in the LOOONNNGGG history of ebberon how many of those got the dragon ascendent PrC?Great wyrm prismats and forces can give the weaker gods a tussel without it to boot.and faerun is clearly NOT part of the draconic propechy,which means theyll bring there full forces to deal with it. besides there dragons,dragons trump everything. by the way,this was a good laugh.
Ramius_Mordale 03-29-05, 06:08 AM	And the peasents rejoice! Suddenly on both worlds a massive concert breaks out with the greatest bards of their day and begin singing "War! What is it good for?" Its a culture revolution and so begins a healing of the people. It's utter chaos as all races partake in this revolution and the saying of Peace and Love pop up considerably with people as they all folk around the concert grounds for days and weeks. :pint: :crazy: :ayyyy!: :w00t: Peace is made and now many of the younger dragons never listen to their elders and put them in old folks home because they are too old and not hip to the new era. :shocked: All governments on both sides begin to ask the question, "Where did we go wrong?" :help: :thinks: Oh quiet all of you, you know as well as me that is how it would turn out and don't you forget it. :P :D Haha okay I'm done being a dork. Enjoy! :tiphat: -Ramius-
Gez 03-29-05, 07:09 AM	Sooooo... You're saying that, if one where to open a transcosmological gateway between Eberron and Abeir-Toril, the logical consequence would be a war between A coalition featuring the Rakshasa Rajah, the Inspired of Sarlona, the Dragons of Argonessen, all Dragonmarked Houses, the Kalashtar, the Blood of Vol, all nations of Khorvaire, including the monsters of Droaam, the Lord of Blades, whatever's left in Xen'drik, and the Daelkyr And a coalition featuring the Lords' Alliance, the Chosen of Mystra, the Shades, the Phaerimm, the Red Wizards, the Zhentarim, the Cult of the Dragon, the Church of Shar, the various Drow factions, Halruaa... Somebody said this was like a Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate. It is. It's a Empire+Rebel Alliance vs. Starfleet+Borg+Klingons war. It just doesn't make sense. I'd point out, myself, that if one were to open a gateway between Khorvaire and Faerűn, the logical outcome would not be a military war of conquest... But a commercial war of conquest! Khorvaire is ruled by corporations (the Dragonmarked Houses), and so is Faerűn (the Red Walmarts of Thay, the whole country of Sembia, 3/4 of the Lords of Waterdeep... FR is ruled by merchants).
Kid SixXx 03-29-05, 08:46 AM	I am impressed that Hellcow even bothered to post. I usually avoid the FR forum staple threads like, "How do I kill this god?" or the "Who would win in a fight? Hulk Hogan or The Simbul?"
Liane the Wayfarer 03-29-05, 05:43 PM	"Who would win in a fight? Hulk Hogan or The Simbul?" Cha! Dude! The Simbul is a chick; of course she'd win! Hulk Hogan would make a lot of noise, but people would pay more if she won. Of course, he should get one or two good shots in, causing her to "accidentally" shed clothes down to underwear, but hey, it's all in the name of "good" television...
YellowKing 03-30-05, 04:54 PM	What about the pherimms and the shades? Don't you think they would want to save Toril? For that matter the dragons of Toril and Dragonflight can be quite intimidating as hundreds of the beasts fly wing to wing and descimate all in their path. Now then yes the signature chars of Elminster, Khelben, etc would do much to fight the invasion of Eberron they could easily ask for the supreme intervention of the Faerun pantheon and of course AO (Who probably looks a lot like Elimister's father).
Ayers 03-30-05, 04:59 PM	Cha! Dude! The Simbul is a chick; of course she'd win! Hulk Hogan would make a lot of noise, but people would pay more if she won. Of course, he should get one or two good shots in, causing her to "accidentally" shed clothes down to underwear, but hey, it's all in the name of "good" television... :rofl: Ah yes, another of those infamous "Wardrobe Malfunctions" ;)
Hellcow 03-30-05, 05:14 PM	For that matter the dragons of Toril and Dragonflight can be quite intimidating as hundreds of the beasts fly wing to wing and descimate all in their path. Certainly! But Argonessen could potentially field hundreds of thousands of dragons (who possess ancient arcane secrets on top of straight-up draconic might). And they already have experience with destroying advanced magical civilizations. It's hard to argue with the gods or epic-level characters, but when it comes to dragons, I think Eberron has the edge. :)
YellowKing 03-30-05, 05:17 PM	So you are basically saying "I have more and cooler dragons?" But you know mystra would give all dragons epic levels in sorcerer and the spell seeds they needed to cast create volcano to boot. Or just close the portal. "I don't like this. This is unbalancing my weave." Poof no more portal In all serious though congrats on your campaign setting getting published. I know there is a huge line of would-be campaign writers out there who admire and look at you in awe. I just look at you with respect because you have done what I want to do. I am not what you would call 'fanboy' by any stretch of any imagination. People are people. Now then what I want to do is {meglomanical voice} create a world! So yeah but then you are the creator of Eberron. Btw I have a campaign setting that I am interested in getting more off the ground. I posted a thread about what people wanted/disired in their campaign worlds. Care to give me any pointers? I have been talking a good amount with the Savage Worlds guys (who think I should use SW btw but my friends Shinatar The Immortal Legends is coming out and it is a fantasy setting plus they have Everdark so it's hard to have another fantasy setting. Seems to me that fantasy settings are not in demand right now. The perfect time to write more of my own which has been in the works for many years; like so many other DMs out there I suppose. Mine has potential though!
Hellcow 03-30-05, 05:30 PM	So you are basically saying "I have more and cooler dragons?" But you know mystra would give all dragons epic levels in sorcerer and the spell seeds they needed to cast create volcano to boot. Certainly! My only point is that there are elder wyrms in Eberron who already have epic levels in sorcerer, without needing a god to pump them up. I'm not arguing who would win the fight: I'm saying that if you just went dragon vs dragon, Eberron's dragons have the edge. But in the big picture, it's absolutely Star Wars vs Star Trek. Eberron was always intended to be a lower power setting. The gods don't walk around on the world. There aren't lots of 30th level characters. It's certainly fine as an intellectual discussion, but I don't have any problem saying "Eberron would lose" - because it was never designed to win such a battle. Of course, the god factor is not so clear as you might think. On Eberron, the gods don't walk the earth. But they do grant power to their worshippers. So the point is that you can't PROVE that they exist - but you can't prove that they don't, either. Some sort of cosmic breakdown that actually brought alien gods into their cosmology might be just what it takes to make Eberron's gods take action - and since they don't have statistics and thus can't be defeated, that gives them an edge. ;) Mortals might never know what occured, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't fight. Btw I have a campaign setting that I am interested in getting more off the ground. I posted a thread about what people wanted/disired in their campaign worlds. At the moment, I'm working against a deadline. When things slow down, I'll take a look.
Hellcow 03-30-05, 06:03 PM	But you know mystra would... just close the portal. "I don't like this. This is unbalancing my weave." Poof no more portal My point is that the exact same thing could happen on Eberron. The reasons behind it would simply be a mystery - like the Mourning. Portal opens up. The people of Eberron spy the vast, mysterious-allied armies of Toril on the other side. Then - POP - the portal closes. "Praise Aureon!" cry the followers of the Sovereign Host. "They should have known better than to challenge the Shadow," whisper cultists in the darkness. "The Silver Flame shielded us from this attack," explains the Keeper of the Flame. Any one of them could be correct. Or perhaps it was the work of a group of adventurers who unearthed the relic the giants used to destabilize Dal Quor. Who knows? Acts of God can occur on Eberron just as they do on Earth. An earthquake kills thousands of innocents. A portal closes before an army can cross over. Was this chance? Uncaring fate? Or the hand of a deity? You could say "Well, commune will tell me" - but not necessarily. On Eberron, commune will usually put you in touch with "agents of the deity" - which is to say outsiders who also worship the deity. They may decide to take credit or deny responsibility if it suits the purposes of the religion. So gods COULD act in Eberron - you'd just have a hard time proving that they had, or which one was responsible.
elvenwizard 03-30-05, 06:46 PM	At the risk of sounding more than a little overconfident, I would be willing to bet that the Simbul, Elminster, Szaas Tam, and Halaster Blackcloak could hold off most of Eberron's army with relative ease. Throw in the rest of the Red Wizards, a force of drow Archmages from Sshamath, and a few ancient Netherese Arcanists from the City of Shade, and Eberron is in for a serious routing.
YellowKing 03-30-05, 06:50 PM	Nice... Plausible Deniability is the creed of the gods of Eberron then? I like it. No superpower over the gods that keeps them in check and no one to say that they cannot do whatever they want to do if they want to do it. It's much more omnipotent and less the would-be hero/god complex that happens so much in Forgotten Realms campaigns where the dm puts magic items like candy on trees and dances joyfully in the halls of the netherese. Now, me I run a FR game and we use http://www.heldensage.com when not f2f that is much more feasible though still high fantasy and still prevalent with magic. Just not so much with the uber-guys, though admittedly there is a certain Lord General who enjoys harrying the players when it suits him. What can I say he likes them? The thread afore mentioned is thus http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5812819#post5812819 and it is basically regarding a low-magic, high-fantasy world populated by chivalry, disire, greed, and inspired by the olde ways of medieval earth.
WitheringSolid 03-30-05, 11:06 PM	While it is true that a Hot war would be disasterous for the continent of Korvaire, A Cold war would be another matter entirely. One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is the fact that poeple of Ebberon, Korvaire in particular, have a much more cosmopolitan and modern mentality, right down to the pesentry. A few well places Spies in Toril, the recruiting of a few disgruntled uber-arcmages, and to top it all off, let the very threat of a hot war re-unify the nation and get the dragon marked houses working to rebuild the nations war engine. Let the whole pot simmer for a a couple of decades.. THEN...Let the pesentry of Aber-Toril get a delicious taste of a decent education, affordable modern/magical conveniences, the posiblity of a public transit sytem for themselves (lighting rail), and all of the sudden Korvaire doesnt seem like such a bad place..Toril doesnt have dismal outlook of the native Eberronians. They may not be as inclined to support an invation of wartorn Korvaire but may very well support a culteral invation FROM Korvaire.:evillaugh:
Cutlass 03-31-05, 12:44 AM	A surprise announcement earlier today had all of Thay in an uproar. Szass Tam has announced his impending marriage to Miss Erandis d'Vol, a charming lady from another plane. After the nuptials the newlyweds are planning on going vampire hunting in the far off city of Korth located on Erandis' home plane. After they are finished there it is believed that they will be journeying to Shadowdale to visit Elminster and discuss some unfinished business. :D
Brastan 03-31-05, 01:55 AM	Nothing and one one beats a Player in the long run. I'll wait and see who the Players side with and how many. Once that's been sorted out I'll tell you who will win. I think its a power draw as there is the same level of epic/god martial floating around in both worlds. It's just concentrated differently. And once you pass something like level 30 its all up in the air, on rules or nothing. Death won't even stop some of these folks( on both sides). "Oh no... I died... how sad.... guess I'd better open up another interdimensional rift and get my body back." That assuming they had a body to start with. I'll take this one step beyond the psychotic and got totally nuts as I pull out TIME TRAVLE. Yes you heard me, time travel, with all of the Epic Magic why not. We're bring in everyone and everything that has been in both settings. Any one got a guess as to how many sub-dimensions and dime-planes both setting are going to get shattered into? Not to say this is a pointless thing (although is kind of is.) In fact it is actually rather amusing to imagine both settings detonating in massve fireballs of Epic spell energy. Which leaves Birthright the sole remaining champion of the multiverse, because know remembers were in the astral void it went! ;) Its like the Far Real, it came left a mark on reality and vanished. Were to? :confused: We don't know. The Archive Vaults at Wizard of the Cost I guess. *clatter* :twocents: Oh and in opposition to what my bother thinks, Star Trek all the way.