Eberron without the Daelkyr [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron without the Daelkyr [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Commissar
01-22-06, 10:05 PM Hey.

So I really like Eberron, but I don't like the Daelkyr. Nothing against anybody who does like them, etc.; I just think they're uninspiring/lame as villains.

So I was thinking about substituting in the Lords of Madness version of the Illithid as time-travelers trying (madly) to defeat entropy. Better villains in my book. It would be as part of that inscrutable scheme that they did the stuff the main book attributes to the Daelkyr.

So, has anyone around here either replaced the Daelkyr or used the Illithid more prominently... or have any other thoughts? I'm just looking for some help getting the ol' cerebral juices flowing, like the Illithid in the restaurant said.
Romulus LoneWolf
01-22-06, 11:13 PM The way I see it, you could easily substitute high-level "name" Illithids for the Daelkyr with very little change in the flavor of the setting.

Although I must admit, the Daelkyr do make for an interesting mental image.. Almost an anime-like "Bishonen" foe..
Talanall
01-22-06, 11:56 PM So, has anyone around here either replaced the Daelkyr or used the Illithid more prominently... or have any other thoughts? I'm just looking for some help getting the ol' cerebral juices flowing, like the Illithid in the restaurant said. Well, how much more prominent can they really get?

Consider all the following:
The Daelkyr that are already in the Material Plane cannot leave Khyber.
The Daelkyr that are already in the Material Plane cannot leave Khyber
The Daelkyr that are already on the Material Plane are only sporadically interested in getting loose from Khyber
The Daelkyr that are already on the Material Plane are only sporadically interested in getting back to Xoriat
The illithids are VERY interested in returning to Xoriat, because they're not the embodiment of insanity like their masters are, and they still consider Xoriat to be "home"
At least one of the Daelkyr is in a state of torpor, leaving its illithid "servants" in charge of running things

This means that in fact, the Daelkyr are not even a little bit prominent. They're the kind of challenge that you throw at level 20+ PCs, first of all, and even after you consider that, they don't behave in anything like a rational fashion. The illithid are the ones who handle the forward planning, the logistics, the lore-hunting, and all the rest of that stuff, as I see matters. At least on the level that humans can sort of comprehend, they are. For whatever reason, the Daelkyr just don't seem all that interested in breaking through the seals that hold them in Khyber, or that keep Xoriat from becoming coterminous again. That's the kind of thing that the illithids are into, and they use the dolgaunts and dolgrims as cannon fodder.

Seriously, the PCs simply cannot encounter a Daelkyr unless they go looking for one. Think about it: the Gatekeepers specialize in preventing incursions from Xoriat. It is their reason for existing. And what do their special abilities focus on? Not killing evil outsiders. No, they kill aberrations. Aberrations are the tools of the Daelkyr outside of their prison in Khyber. The illithid commands the dolgaunt to lead its dolgrim minions to the surface and fetch humanoids. The illithid (not the Daelkyr) binds the kidnapped humanoids into the husk of infinite worlds that was shaped from the slumbering form of its "master." Really. Who's in charge, here? The Daelkyr? Or the illithid?

Sure, some of the Daelkyr take an active hand in the effort to break free of Khyber. Others drive their minions to try to reopen the gates to Xoriat. Others do neither, and simply clamor for more test subjects as they create new perversions of life. Still others try to complete the job they came here to do, without bothering to call for backup, and pursue the destruction of Eberron itself. And others slumber.

And you can't even predict which one is going to be doing any given one of the things listed above at any given moment. These are not administrators, if you catch my drift. The Daelkyr are extremely powerful "idea guys." But the way I see it, the illithid race is the glue that holds things together.

If you want to pick a fight with an illithid, it's easy to do. You can go to Droaam, and there's old Xor'chylic the mind flayer telepath. He's not even working for the Daelkyr; he's the ally of the Daughters of Sora Kell, freed from a prison beneath the earth and promised revenge upon his kin in exchange for his help against their enemies. And it's not like Xor'chylic is weak, either. If you're using the psionic illithid from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, he manifests powers as a 15th-level telepath. This puts him up there with Mordain the Fleshweaver and Vol on the list of baddies in Khorvaire.

In other words:
1. The Daelkyr don't have their act together, collectively
2. The mind flayers clearly do
3. The mind flayers demonstrably are capable of individual initiative

This means that there's a very good chance that a lot of the "Daelkyr plots" that make it to the surface of Khorvaire have been meddled with by the mind flayers along the way. The mind flayers want a supply of tasty brains, a way home to Xoriat, and power over the surface world. Not necessarily in that order. The Daelkyr wa . . . um, hummingbird! No, carthorse! No, yes! Scombroid! Cth . . . nt different things at different times, without much in the way of consistency.

What makes the Daelkyr so dangerous is that the mind flayers are willing to deal with them as allies. What makes the mind flayers so dangerous is that the Daelkyr are willing to deal with THEM as allies. Their relationship is symbiotic; the Daelkyr needs minions who can execute its mad plans. The mind flayers find the Daelkyr propensity for creating but not commanding new slave races to be quite attractive, and also prosper by their willingness to scavenge riches from the worlds that the Daelkyr annihilate.

Anyway. If you want to get rid of the Daelkyr altogether, that's your prerogative as a DM. I wouldn't stop you even if I could. But if you're simply doing it because you think the illithid aren't really cut out to be minions . . . well, where's it say that they're just minions? They've got free will, and the brains to use it.
BoneLord_of_Skullthrone
01-23-06, 01:44 AM I sum it up as: Illithids are cool, Daelkers are just kinda creepy....sitting down there....doing stuff.... :mymy: :twitch: :gah:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Commissar 01-22-06, 10:05 PM	Hey. So I really like Eberron, but I don't like the Daelkyr. Nothing against anybody who does like them, etc.; I just think they're uninspiring/lame as villains. So I was thinking about substituting in the Lords of Madness version of the Illithid as time-travelers trying (madly) to defeat entropy. Better villains in my book. It would be as part of that inscrutable scheme that they did the stuff the main book attributes to the Daelkyr. So, has anyone around here either replaced the Daelkyr or used the Illithid more prominently... or have any other thoughts? I'm just looking for some help getting the ol' cerebral juices flowing, like the Illithid in the restaurant said.
Romulus LoneWolf 01-22-06, 11:13 PM	The way I see it, you could easily substitute high-level "name" Illithids for the Daelkyr with very little change in the flavor of the setting. Although I must admit, the Daelkyr do make for an interesting mental image.. Almost an anime-like "Bishonen" foe..
Talanall 01-22-06, 11:56 PM	So, has anyone around here either replaced the Daelkyr or used the Illithid more prominently... or have any other thoughts? I'm just looking for some help getting the ol' cerebral juices flowing, like the Illithid in the restaurant said. Well, how much more prominent can they really get? Consider all the following: The Daelkyr that are already in the Material Plane cannot leave Khyber. The Daelkyr that are already in the Material Plane cannot leave Khyber The Daelkyr that are already on the Material Plane are only sporadically interested in getting loose from Khyber The Daelkyr that are already on the Material Plane are only sporadically interested in getting back to Xoriat The illithids are VERY interested in returning to Xoriat, because they're not the embodiment of insanity like their masters are, and they still consider Xoriat to be "home" At least one of the Daelkyr is in a state of torpor, leaving its illithid "servants" in charge of running things This means that in fact, the Daelkyr are not even a little bit prominent. They're the kind of challenge that you throw at level 20+ PCs, first of all, and even after you consider that, they don't behave in anything like a rational fashion. The illithid are the ones who handle the forward planning, the logistics, the lore-hunting, and all the rest of that stuff, as I see matters. At least on the level that humans can sort of comprehend, they are. For whatever reason, the Daelkyr just don't seem all that interested in breaking through the seals that hold them in Khyber, or that keep Xoriat from becoming coterminous again. That's the kind of thing that the illithids are into, and they use the dolgaunts and dolgrims as cannon fodder. Seriously, the PCs simply cannot encounter a Daelkyr unless they go looking for one. Think about it: the Gatekeepers specialize in preventing incursions from Xoriat. It is their reason for existing. And what do their special abilities focus on? Not killing evil outsiders. No, they kill aberrations. Aberrations are the tools of the Daelkyr outside of their prison in Khyber. The illithid commands the dolgaunt to lead its dolgrim minions to the surface and fetch humanoids. The illithid (not the Daelkyr) binds the kidnapped humanoids into the husk of infinite worlds that was shaped from the slumbering form of its "master." Really. Who's in charge, here? The Daelkyr? Or the illithid? Sure, some of the Daelkyr take an active hand in the effort to break free of Khyber. Others drive their minions to try to reopen the gates to Xoriat. Others do neither, and simply clamor for more test subjects as they create new perversions of life. Still others try to complete the job they came here to do, without bothering to call for backup, and pursue the destruction of Eberron itself. And others slumber. And you can't even predict which one is going to be doing any given one of the things listed above at any given moment. These are not administrators, if you catch my drift. The Daelkyr are extremely powerful "idea guys." But the way I see it, the illithid race is the glue that holds things together. If you want to pick a fight with an illithid, it's easy to do. You can go to Droaam, and there's old Xor'chylic the mind flayer telepath. He's not even working for the Daelkyr; he's the ally of the Daughters of Sora Kell, freed from a prison beneath the earth and promised revenge upon his kin in exchange for his help against their enemies. And it's not like Xor'chylic is weak, either. If you're using the psionic illithid from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, he manifests powers as a 15th-level telepath. This puts him up there with Mordain the Fleshweaver and Vol on the list of baddies in Khorvaire. In other words: 1. The Daelkyr don't have their act together, collectively 2. The mind flayers clearly do 3. The mind flayers demonstrably are capable of individual initiative This means that there's a very good chance that a lot of the "Daelkyr plots" that make it to the surface of Khorvaire have been meddled with by the mind flayers along the way. The mind flayers want a supply of tasty brains, a way home to Xoriat, and power over the surface world. Not necessarily in that order. The Daelkyr wa . . . um, hummingbird! No, carthorse! No, yes! Scombroid! Cth . . . nt different things at different times, without much in the way of consistency. What makes the Daelkyr so dangerous is that the mind flayers are willing to deal with them as allies. What makes the mind flayers so dangerous is that the Daelkyr are willing to deal with THEM as allies. Their relationship is symbiotic; the Daelkyr needs minions who can execute its mad plans. The mind flayers find the Daelkyr propensity for creating but not commanding new slave races to be quite attractive, and also prosper by their willingness to scavenge riches from the worlds that the Daelkyr annihilate. Anyway. If you want to get rid of the Daelkyr altogether, that's your prerogative as a DM. I wouldn't stop you even if I could. But if you're simply doing it because you think the illithid aren't really cut out to be minions . . . well, where's it say that they're just minions? They've got free will, and the brains to use it.
BoneLord_of_Skullthrone 01-23-06, 01:44 AM	I sum it up as: Illithids are cool, Daelkers are just kinda creepy....sitting down there....doing stuff.... :mymy: :twitch: :gah: