Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Weo 03-08-05, 10:21 PM	It appears to me that Eberron is, in many ways, an American answer to the Realms, and indeed post-Tolkien euro-based fantasy generally. I say this because: 1. Khovaire as North America: The geography of the continent alone is suggestive, as it is sea to shing sea. It is not based on the extreme western end of a continent, as FR is. It is isolated from its neighboring continents...perhaps a political statement could be made here...And note the art of Khorvaire as well...leather tassels, beadwork, tomahawks..very suggestive of Native American artwork/craft. 2. Xendrik as South America: this is somewhat of obvious, but worth mentioning, that Xendrik is a surrogate for South American/Amazon. Thick jungles with large ruins clearly depicted in Inca/Maya/Aztec style. And If Xendrik is South American, then make Sharn a vertical Miami...crazy with power, dangerous, exciting... 3. Riedra/Sarlona as USSR: In many ways, I think Sarlona is a analog for the USSR. A large, manifestly powerful foreign power, utilizing unknown energies for power (ie psionics). It is monolithic, in that the Inspired run it all, just as USSR was run by the communists. And Riedra, by and through the Dreaming Dark, engage in Cold War-style espionage (mind seed, etc). 4. Corporate Powers: What's more American that international corporations? The Dragonmarked houses fill this role, as transanational non-governmental organizations that are also captains of thier industries. 5. Magical wealth equates high standard of living: magic is almost tech, and America is fairly tech savvy. ECS states that magic is some omnipresent that it is not unknown for blacksmiths to whisper magecraft spells over their work, and magewrights ply their trade everywhere. I.e., ...and I guess that's it. Thoughts, please.
Davy Jones' Locker 03-08-05, 10:24 PM	then make Sharn a vertical Miami...crazy with power, dangerous, exciting... Heh, with far worse weather. I agree with most of the comparisons you've made.
Gunrock 03-08-05, 11:00 PM	You're quite possibly right in your analysis of the sources of things. I suspect that that is more a product of the subconcious than a bit of intent. Still, it makes it easier to grasp certain aspects of the world now. Thank you for that insight.
imperialjunkie 03-08-05, 11:08 PM	One major geographic difference is the population centers of Eberron are in the middle of the continent, while most of the population of the US is on the coasts. Although there may be some correlation between California and the Demon Wastes. Just kidding... I love the West Coast. Really. I do...
Marshall Stone 03-09-05, 01:14 AM	It appears to me that Eberron is, in many ways, an American answer to the Realms, and indeed post-Tolkien euro-based fantasy generally. I say this because: 1. Khovaire as North America: The geography of the continent alone is suggestive, as it is sea to shing sea. It is not based on the extreme western end of a continent, as FR is. It is isolated from its neighboring continents...perhaps a political statement could be made here...And note the art of Khorvaire as well...leather tassels, beadwork, tomahawks..very suggestive of Native American artwork/craft. 2. Xendrik as South America: this is somewhat of obvious, but worth mentioning, that Xendrik is a surrogate for South American/Amazon. Thick jungles with large ruins clearly depicted in Inca/Maya/Aztec style. And If Xendrik is South American, then make Sharn a vertical Miami...crazy with power, dangerous, exciting... 3. Riedra/Sarlona as USSR: In many ways, I think Sarlona is a analog for the USSR. A large, manifestly powerful foreign power, utilizing unknown energies for power (ie psionics). It is monolithic, in that the Inspired run it all, just as USSR was run by the communists. And Riedra, by and through the Dreaming Dark, engage in Cold War-style espionage (mind seed, etc). 4. Corporate Powers: What's more American that international corporations? The Dragonmarked houses fill this role, as transanational non-governmental organizations that are also captains of thier industries. 5. Magical wealth equates high standard of living: magic is almost tech, and America is fairly tech savvy. ECS states that magic is some omnipresent that it is not unknown for blacksmiths to whisper magecraft spells over their work, and magewrights ply their trade everywhere. I.e., ...and I guess that's it. Thoughts, please. 1. I see Khorvaire as being more Europe then the Americas. The Kindgom of Galifar was like the Holy Roman Empire ruled by Charlemagne. Then just like Charlegmagne's land was divided up by his heirs Galifar was divided up and the different nations formed. The fact that Khorvaire is a continent with oceans on either end simply makes it Eberron and not a direct copy, IMHO. 2. Xendrick is "Deepest Darkest Africa" back when it might still have been referred that way. With the search for Syberis shards being similar to the search for Diamonds. 3. I can see your take on Reidra/Sarlona and I'll have to consider it further, but before reading your take I was seeing Reidra/Sarlona more like the "Mysterious East" about/around the time that Marco Polo was making his travels there. It's distant, mostly closed off and exotic. I can see and mostly concur with your points 4 and 5.
hiryuu 03-09-05, 01:28 AM	The world's first "corporate powers" were the merchant guilds of Italy, whihc is what the houses are very close to. Without any sort of trust laws or governmental control, they are much more like Merchant Houses than corporations.
Vharuck 03-09-05, 01:28 AM	1. All continents (except Europe and Asia, because they're pooheads) have oceans on either side. That's why they're continents. I really don't see the similarity. Also, the history does match up nicely with the Holy Roman Empire, having been built upon the ruins of an ancient civilization and then splitting. 2. I agree that it borrows the Incan and Aztec architecture, but this reminds me in spirit of Antarctica. Most of it was unmapped, and only one major port was available (and by major it was really really tiny but about the only thing it had). 3. Communism is not a form of government. What the Reidran have is Elitism, where the "better" people rule. Communism is a form of economy. However, the psychic powers bit is analogous as the USSR conducted many experiments about psychic powers and machines to be used as psionic weapons. Also the sneaky methods fit with the USSR, but the Inspired are actually nice to their citizens and lead the country well. The USSR did not. 4. This comes hand-in-hand with any capitalist economic system. Major corporations get a foothold and it launches from there. Nothing new. Germany has major corporations, Japan does (Sony), basically every semi-capitalist country does. 5. Well, it is kinda hard to imagine it the other way. Those who have the most magical technology live in squalor? I think that useful possessions and standard of living are near synonymous. One has to go with the other.
Chiba_Monkey 03-09-05, 01:53 AM	Although there may be some correlation between California and the Demon Wastes. Actually, using this analogy, California would be the Shadow Marches...full of unsavory characters and prospectors, not necessarily in 2 groups. Sounds like CA to me. The Demon Wastes would be Canada. A desolate wasteland filled with warped beings (the French) and large, strange beasts (moose). Dead on again ;) I'm kidding, by the way. But seriously, I think this is really insightful. I noticed the Faerun/Europe thing long ago, what with Kara-Tur to the east, the Al-Qadim world to the southeast, jungles to the south (Chult, the Shaar, etc. -a mini Africa), and Maztica across the ocean to the west. 1. I think you're right on here 2. Here, too. Xen'drik has more in common with South America than it does with Africa. Much of the Amazon jungle is still a mystery. 3. As a History major, who specialized in 20th century hhistory ESPECIALLY the Cold War and USSR/PRC, let me pat you on the back, nice job. SIDE NOTE: Does that make the Kalashtar Jewish? 4. You're right, but there's nothing disticnt;y American about big business, we learned it all from those who came before us, you know. 5. Ummm.....duh. Vharuk's right. This is just a no-brainer. Good job, though, I'm impressed. (please don't hate me for the Kalashtar-Jewish thing. I mention it as a serious question relating to the apparent parallel. I'm not trying to poke fun at anyone)
AvonRekaes 03-09-05, 02:41 AM	Although there may be some correlation between California and the Demon Wastes. Demon californication?
CJN 03-09-05, 04:11 AM	3. Riedra/Sarlona as USSR: In many ways, I think Sarlona is a analog for the USSR. A large, manifestly powerful foreign power, utilizing unknown energies for power (ie psionics). It is monolithic, in that the Inspired run it all, just as USSR was run by the communists. And Riedra, by and through the Dreaming Dark, engage in Cold War-style espionage (mind seed, etc). In Inspired Sarlona nightmares have you!
Taurren 03-09-05, 05:44 AM	Sometimes a dream is just a dream ... a cigar, is just a cigar ... and a fantasy world is just a fantasy world.
Nashad d'Thuranni 03-09-05, 05:56 AM	Hmmm...it really has some similiarities. If Khorvaire is the USA, then Sarlona would be Europe/USSR...the Continent from which the humans came and settled in the Western Continent, same as europeans settling in america. Also the original natives of Khorvaire have some similiarities with the native americans. The orcs learnt some sort of tribal/nature magic, which is a bit in the style of native americans.
Gez 03-09-05, 06:41 AM	The world's first "corporate powers" were the merchant guilds of Italy, whihc is what the houses are very close to. Without any sort of trust laws or governmental control, they are much more like Merchant Houses than corporations. Do not forget the Hanseatic League in the North Sea!
TranquilDarkness 03-09-05, 07:20 AM	Of course similarities will pop up, but they will tell you nothing if you don't look at the whole. Yes, Khorvaire has sea on all sides and humans live there - this is so nonspecific it gets you nowhere. It also consists of several kingdoms that once were one, and the whole continent is in no way united. It has an old religion with several silent gods, one church following a Flame whose latest scoring points seem to be corruption and massacre of were-creatures - and several cults. Anyone can make any comparison they like, and they are right enough - but no comparison fits like a glove, and no comparison is all-exclusive.
Just another user 03-09-05, 08:14 AM	Another way to see it is , Eberron is Pulp, many of the elements you mentioned are common of the pulp genre (of course one could say that the pulp genre was americo-centric so....)
Zentinel 03-09-05, 08:48 AM	Other similarities: -Khorvaire as a "Cultural melting pot" -... but every region has its own cultural identity. -A freed Slave Race after the end of a devastating Civil War. -A Fundamentalist religion doing bad in good's name (not an American problem, but certainly more present in the US than here in Canada).
hiryuu 03-09-05, 02:22 PM	Do not forget the Hanseatic League in the North Sea! *smacks self* Europe's not my big field; India I can tell you about, but Europe's history, not my forté.
Naicin 03-09-05, 02:33 PM	Im very happy they finally made a setting based off of America if your right.
Alac Luin 03-09-05, 02:49 PM	1. Khovaire as North America: The geography of the continent alone is suggestive, as it is sea to shing sea... So, this would place L. A. in the Shadow Marches?
lukelightning 03-09-05, 03:02 PM	In Inspired Sarlona nightmares have you! My hat is off to CJN. Bravo!
JohnnyONeal 03-09-05, 03:29 PM	Neat analysis. When Eberron first came out, I think the first comparison most people made was to Europe between WWI and WWII. That worked nicely, because of the concept of a war-torn land full of powerful organizations, the looming threat of another war, and the intrigue of mysterious continents. But I like this, too. Aspects of it, especially Sarlona as Russia, make sense to me. And Eberron certainly incorporates some non-European elements into its aesthetics. I think it's to the setting's credit that it's open to a number of diverse interpretations.
Jar Head 03-09-05, 04:20 PM	Actually, Khorvaire seems like a mixture of countries. I can't remember everything, but if you think... Breland: America Karrnath: Germany(both world Wars) Aundair: France Thrane: Can't remember... Cyre: Not enough information...
Orion Polaris 03-09-05, 05:20 PM	What would Aeronal be?
Weo 03-09-05, 05:35 PM	Aerenal is a bit of a question. The art seems to suggest a bit of an African flavor, and the ancestor-worship practice would seem to comport with my small understanding of traditional ancestor-based religious beliefs of southern african tribes like the Zulu and the Xhosa. The war-like nature of the elves in general would also align with the very warlike culture of the Zulu, at least as Zulu are commonly portrayed. But geographically, Aerenal is, well, small. Not that big. Little. A sub-continent. India, perhaps? Some conjectural combination of Africa and India? Or maybe some pre-Muslim buddha + violence in southeast Asia Thailand/Malaysia notion. I don't really think it fits anywhere with great clarity. I also have problems with Argonessan. Maybe Argo is a western Europe, very earlier in its history, when the ranges still deemed with barbarian tribes and dragons walked the earth. And one other point that makes Khorvaire seem American to me, as oposed to Indo-European: there is no really good place to stick samurai or Oriental Adventures. These message boards have relfected the difficulty people have had trying to find a good niche for samurai and ninjas and stuff, and I haven't seen any that really hit the nail on da head. The Realms has Kara-Tur, and maybe Rokugan if you want, but Khorvaire's eastern-most points are Qbarra (which is like a little 1600's Florida/Georgia....swampy, scrappy, full of hopeful colonists seeking a new life before they all get malaria and die) and the Princedoms...which has a very western feel through its art and princes and fiefdoms and such. So, no orient helps Khorvaire feel American.
Naudachu 03-09-05, 05:57 PM	The Shadow Marches could fit California better if you use the American Old West, before the "lightning rails" reached across the mountains. I think the "technology" level fits this era: lightning rails, messenger stones, the beginnings of aircraft. Someone mentioned Aundair as being French, this could be similar to Quebec with the Eldeen Reaches as the rest of Canda...making Alaska the Demon Wastes? So, if Khorvaire is North America and Xen'drik South America...Sarlona is EuroAsia...does that make Argonessen (sp?) Africa? And Aerenel (sp?)...Atlantis? Of course nothing fits like a glove, and I'm glad for it. Our mind naturally makes correlations, and a little is fun, but Eberron is just beginning. For me, I'd like to let it breathe for a little while longer, before constraints on ideas are placed.
Naudachu 03-09-05, 06:17 PM	(Follow up ideas) - Elves as Atlanteans, this time leaving the South American Inca and Maya...and the sinking of southern Xen'drik - Giant Inca and Maya...leading to human sacrificing Aztec Drow? OR the remnants of Giant civilization descended in "human" sacrifice - Didn't think about India...What do we know of Sarlona's eastern coast? How far is the travel around the world (I'm assuming its not flat... :) ) - Lhazaar "settling" of Khorvaire like America... - Were there earlier settlers (Vikings?)? - OR Lhazaarites are Viking-esque, and Khorvaire is a what if they florished ...leaving Sarlona (Europe) to venture across the sea later (late 1800s) It is interesting to see the "urbanized" countries in the north. That may be a subconscious cultural bias. What would a D&D setting made by South Americans or Africans be like? That's the problem with taking these correlations too far...you run into feelings and stereotypes about modern life. It needs some distance...which I think they consciously made this time as opposed to FR. You're more free to have villians and evil organizations wherever you like and not run into modern politics.
Alac Luin 03-09-05, 07:05 PM	The Shadow Marches could fit California better if you use the American Old West, before the "lightning rails" reached across the mountains. I think the "technology" level fits this era: lightning rails, messenger stones, the beginnings of aircraft. you titled this post "Gold Rush", but considering what is there, shoulden't it be "Shard Rush". in 849 YK (almost said DR :)) someone discovered eberron shards in the swamps of the Shadow Marches, many people desided to move there to strike it ritch. ;)
Weo 03-09-05, 09:41 PM	That's great, about the shard rush in the west. Even more evidence of an American bent, subconscious or overt. And I heartily agree with the dangers of carrying real geopolitic analysis into a world built on fantasy...you run the risk of equivocating actual people with good/evil charicatures, and that would be hurtful and simple-minded,,, That said, as a DM, i do find some usefulness in approaching Khorvaire v Riedra in a US v USSR fashion...I would very much like to sketch out a campaign of cloak and dagger espioniage, where the PC are caught up in a game of spy v spy b/t the Dreaming Dark/Inspired and the Five Nations.... And, just as in the 1980's, this conflict would spread over onto other continents as the Inspired tried to take over more the world for their own nefarious purposes....mind seeds in Aerenal, possibly even in the Undying Court....psionic demons emerging from the Wastes and attacking Aundair...the Dreaming Dark making a play for a huge new field of Siberys crystals in Xendrik with only the PC's to stop them...that sort of thing. Insert "eldritch machine" for "nuclear bomb" and you've got classic brinksmanship adventure, Eberron-style.
Nature-boy 03-09-05, 11:35 PM	1. I see Khorvaire as being more Europe then the Americas. The Kindgom of Galifar was like the Holy Roman Empire ruled by Charlemagne. Then just like Charlegmagne's land was divided up by his heirs Galifar was divided up and the different nations formed. The fact that Khorvaire is a continent with oceans on either end simply makes it Eberron and not a direct copy, IMHO. I've actually always thought as Khorvaire as the (insert powerful country here) world power. It could be America (closest resemblance) or the Roman Empire, but it could be Britain at its peak as well. Although, now that I think of it, the broken nations somewhat resemble America during the civil war, but no slaves are involved, unless you think with a twist on the Warforged...
Just another user 03-10-05, 02:59 AM	What would Aeronal be? I don't believe you should search for a single country when to look for the equivalent of eberron countries, they work better as Archetypes, IMO Korvhaine, the civiled, known country, the Known World. most of Europe and North America. Aerenal is the exotic and little know but essentialy civilized country, with a history that goes back into the millenia, it could be egypt, india, middle east (pulp middle east, pre-WWII, not modern) Xen'drik is the exotic, barely know, savage and mostly unexplored country, with its ruins of ancient civilizations, (Africa and South America) Sarlona is the exotic, mysterious, and hostile country, depending on the period could be nazi german, russia or cina. But even in eberron countries have elements of these nations, they are more of that, in that Eberron is way better than the Forgotten Realms
Brastan 03-10-05, 03:52 AM	*Holds up center-fold map of Khorvaire toward forum.* In bad psychiatrist accent: Zo tell me, wat do you see? Eberron clearly shows you what you want to see or better yet what you can relate to. The rich detail (but not overloaded) allows us to draw on our real world knowledge and make assumptions and analogies that help us relate to the world better. We recognize elements that fit with our knowledge of the world an Khorvaire as the USofA is a bit of stretch and possibly oversimplifying both. The five main nations appear to have many similarities to European colonial powers as well as their off spring, like the US. They are still monarchies though, with absolute authority resting in the hands of the nobility and rich.
nyysjan 03-10-05, 04:34 AM	but what i want to know is why are all mysterious closed off empires to the east of the main stage it's like it was somekind of little known rule for world builders
Endless_Helix 03-10-05, 09:05 AM	IIRC, Keith Baker said that there weren't supposed to be the traditional parallels between regions in Eberron and regions in our world. The whole point of eberron was to get away from FR and similar settings. In these worlds, adventuring was what the focus was. It seemed like every little town had numerous caves and bands of assorted nasties that conveniently wait untill the PCs are near by, and then jump up and yell "BOO!" loudly. Then they just sort of go splat. Eberron's countries are supposed to be a fusion of several of our cultures. The talenta plains are definately mongolia/great plains. Karrnath i would say is a german(both wwi and wwii)/roman. Valenar is arabian/indian/mongol/japanese samurai sub-culture. All the countries have sources for their culture but they still arent one primary countries, except in a few cases(Karrnath,Talenta plains, Shadow marshes)
ReivaxZerai 03-10-05, 12:20 PM	The Demon Wastes would be Canada. A desolate wasteland filled with warped beings (the French) That's not a very nice thing to say about Celine Dion. :) Actually, using this analogy, California would be the Shadow Marches...full of unsavory characters and prospectors, not necessarily in 2 groups. Sounds like CA to me. I like that idea, the Gold of the 1850s is what brought my family to California, I guess you could substitute Gold for shards.
MonkeyPaladin 03-10-05, 02:28 PM	Another way Khorvaire is like North America is that it's much more racially diverse than other settings, but at the same time the races are fairly well integrated. Elves live in Sharn, and their kids act more like the Brelish people than they do Aerenal's people. It's not perfect integration, but neither is it the US.
nyysjan 03-10-05, 02:31 PM	That's not a very nice thing to say about Celine Dion. :) that "singing" ain't very nice either :P but that's just my opinion and my opinions are not humble they are arrogant to the extreme
Jar Head 03-10-05, 07:00 PM	I have an answer to everything. It's a fantasy world.
Edymnion 03-10-05, 07:09 PM	Actually, the shape of Khovaire has more in common with Asia than it does with North America. And it lines up much better too. Seriously, the Demon Wastes line up with the Middle East (no commentary there other than it being desert terrain). The Principalities are islands, which line up with Japan. The top of the continent looks like the old USSR, complete with the Black Sea. We've got India in there, and what looks remarkably like Scandenavia. Of course, its really an inkblot test. It isn't ANY of the real world continents, it doesn't really look like any of them, its just a shapeless blob that we all read into what we want to see. On a trivia note, did you know that Rorshak's (or however you spell it) childhood nickname was, roughly translated, "inkblot"?
Korhal_IV 03-11-05, 01:57 AM	It seemed like every little town had numerous caves and bands of assorted nasties that conveniently wait untill the PCs are near by, and then jump up and yell "BOO!" loudly. Then they just sort of go splat. Hey, it's a living. Sarlona can play the part of the USSR, but there's no archetypal USA - no "defender of freedom" or at least "opposer of the current oppressor", depending on your historical point of view. You're gonna need that. With Sarlona acting all friendly and peaceful, it's probably closer to modern-day Chinese government than 1960s USSR. I mean, Good Lord, look at the elites running the nations of Khorvaire. A more rascally bunch of backstabbing, vindictive, power-hungry warmongers I've never seen. Congratulations, Mr. Baker. :D
Child Of Winter 03-11-05, 12:29 PM	I agree with you analogy of Eberron, as a generalised whole, except for Xen'drik as South America. Although we can draw some parallels to parts of South America and Africa, I'd consider the South and Eastern area of Khorvaire for these real world similarities. The jungles of Q'barra (South America) and the Talenta Plains, (mid and south Africa). I see Xen'drik as a continent of pure fantasy, where almost anything can happen, quite literally, since it's spread across so many latidudes. So in the North it may have lush jungles similar to rainforests, but if you simply walked south you'd soon come across clearings, small deserts, and then temperate wildlife and plants, deciduous forests and evergreen pines. Pretty soon (realtivley), you'd be coming across fringe frost giant settlements, since you're just a small strait from the Frostfell. Indeed, south western and eastern Xen'drik share latitudes with the Frostfell, making them just as dangerous as the Arctic-esque continent itself.
Charles Phipps 03-11-05, 12:49 PM	I prefer Sarlona as a less developed nation actually. While Xen'drick is nevertheless the "Africa" you can always put in Sarlona plenty of other mysterious civilizations I think. The Quorli aren't necessarily a hugely advanced race.
Full Quiver 03-11-05, 01:01 PM	I see Sharn more as New York City than miami.
Ellipsis 03-11-05, 03:16 PM	The first post was truthful in many, if not all, aspects, but as later posts have revealed, the post was an incomplete analysis. Eberron is an amalgam of many aspects of real-world cultures and originality on the part of the designers. The insight is appreciated, but I can't help noticing a bit of spite in the orginal post towards America, especially the hint about it isolating itself from the rest of the world, and I must say I don't appeciate it. Your personal opinion is not my concern, and indeed, I encourage you to have your own opinions, but I must ask that you not express this particular one, as it may (and does) offend some Americans. As for whether or not I agree with your comment, I will think about it.
Weo 03-11-05, 03:17 PM	There's definitely some New York in Sharn. Since Sharn serves as a gate to Xendrik, though, I definitely see some of Miami in there, since Miami is definitely a portal to South America. New York in more of a portal from anywhere to America, I think. Sharns seems to me to a cross between New York and Miami, cut up and stacked on top of each other. Because I definitely see Xendrik as South America, no doubt.
Ellipsis 03-11-05, 03:23 PM	Of course similarities will pop up, but they will tell you nothing if you don't look at the whole. Yes, Khorvaire has sea on all sides and humans live there - this is so nonspecific it gets you nowhere. It also consists of several kingdoms that once were one, and the whole continent is in no way united. It has an old religion with several silent gods, one church following a Flame whose latest scoring points seem to be corruption and massacre of were-creatures - and several cults. Anyone can make any comparison they like, and they are right enough - but no comparison fits like a glove, and no comparison is all-exclusive. Bravo.
Ellipsis 03-11-05, 03:27 PM	-A Fundamentalist religion doing bad in good's name (not an American problem, but certainly more present in the US than here in Canada). What, exactly, is that supposed to mean? If this is about Catholic priests molesting children or some other problem with a minority within the church, I must say they are just that - a minority. If that is the point you were trying to make, I take pity on you that you would look at such a small portion of the picture and make your judgement depending on that.
Vharuck 03-11-05, 03:33 PM	What, exactly, is that supposed to mean? If this is about Catholic priests molesting children or some other problem with a minority within the church, I must say they are just that - a minority. If that is the point you were trying to make, I take pity on you that you would look at such a small portion of the picture and make your judgement depending on that. No, we'll stay off the current topic (as per CoC) and stick to historical ones. Like Manifest Destiny. God apparently wanted us to travel west, claiming all the land as ours, regardless of who lived there.
Ellipsis 03-11-05, 03:40 PM	That's great, about the shard rush in the west. Even more evidence of an American bent, subconscious or overt. And I heartily agree with the dangers of carrying real geopolitic analysis into a world built on fantasy...you run the risk of equivocating actual people with good/evil charicatures, and that would be hurtful and simple-minded,,, That said, as a DM, i do find some usefulness in approaching Khorvaire v Riedra in a US v USSR fashion...I would very much like to sketch out a campaign of cloak and dagger espioniage, where the PC are caught up in a game of spy v spy b/t the Dreaming Dark/Inspired and the Five Nations.... And, just as in the 1980's, this conflict would spread over onto other continents as the Inspired tried to take over more the world for their own nefarious purposes....mind seeds in Aerenal, possibly even in the Undying Court....psionic demons emerging from the Wastes and attacking Aundair...the Dreaming Dark making a play for a huge new field of Siberys crystals in Xendrik with only the PC's to stop them...that sort of thing. Insert "eldritch machine" for "nuclear bomb" and you've got classic brinksmanship adventure, Eberron-style. I like it. I like it a lot. And, putting your original post aside, congratulations on your (intentionally or unintentionally) controversial and debatable post. It is quite possibly the most fun I've had on the Eberron forums.
Reprisal 03-14-05, 05:24 AM	In this particular theory, might I suggest that Aerenal be alikened to mythical Atlantis? - Rep.
Weo 03-14-05, 07:42 AM	Yah, I like that notion alot. Again, the whole point of this thread is to provide a basis for creation of adventure, setting, description, etc. Of course, Atlantis is also a mythical environ, so we couldn't have an extremely faithful recreation of the "real" Atlantis in Eberron; but Atlantis is certailny one of the most elder and established fantasy continents, so I would think that the comparison would still bear fruit for the DM or PC who sought to really imagine the world. For example, has Aerenal always been so small? Was there a larger portion of the island continent that is now sunk beneath the waves? Was it sunk during conflict with the dragons? Was the home of Vol on that sunken portion, and the PC's now have to recover a vital clue or item there? Etc, etc. I like it, it's got legs. Good show!
Sturm Jaeger 03-14-05, 03:49 PM	I see Aerenal as similar to Asia. Exotic, mysterious, highly civilized with an ancient culture, and difficult for outsiders to understand.
Deus_Proelii 03-21-05, 04:34 AM	I dunno about the N. America similarity. So many things about Khorvaire simply scream Europe to me. 1. The Last War. The references to the Last War sound a lot like those made to World War I, called "the Great War," the War to end all wars, etc. 2. Treaty of Thronehold. This sounds like a direct parallel to the Peace of Westphalia, which was established after a long, costly war as well(the Thirty Years' War). At Westphalia, the concept of the sovereignty of nation states was established, MUCH like at Thronehold. Even countries like Darguun, the Eldeen Reaches and Valenar get treated as "sovereign" nations. 3. The social structure of Khorvaire, with its aristocratic class division and feudal-type of organization, seems so much more like Europe than the socially mobile, immigrant society of America. 4. The Kingdom of Galifar's likeness to the Holy Roman Empire is too big to ignore. Just my opinion. Breland would be Britain, with its bustling, quasi-modern metropolis Sharn as London, and even a Parliament. Karnath would be Germany or Russia, and Aundair France.
magicmarker13 03-21-05, 06:53 AM	someone previously seemed to take offense at an insinuation that khorvaire represented an isolationist America, if that's a shot at today i don't think it's hard to see that it's wrong in our current affairs, but i think it's dead on regarding history. i tend to agree with previous posters in that khorvaire follows a more americanized fantasy world that's just getting out of a huge civil war. If you look at our own history, after our civil war we were isolationists until WWI, barring a few smaller examples like expeditions to africa (xendrick) and our meddling with the Far East (sarlona). also, we have to face the facts of history that there have been religious fanatics in our past, and unfortunately in our present, and so it is easy to peg Thrane and the Silver Flame as reflecting past and current fundamentalists, simply because we have a stereotype to work with coming out of human experience. certain things like the aforementioned manifest destiny, the slaughtering of Native people of the Americas, and the witch hunts of Salem (which i think most closely parallels the thranish werehunt) allow us to easily see similar patterns at work in this setting, and indeed those historic experiences quite possibly gave Baker and the design team the idea for Thrane (intentionally or subconsiously) in the first place. so regardless of whether it only reflects a minority or the majority is not really important. it's comparing it to historical events that seems to be the focus here. anywho...yes, i do indeed agree with the general consensus of the board that khorvaire is more americanized. and on a side note to comments about venitian merchant houses and the like, i do think that's a valid arguement that could go either way, on one side the beginnings of the dragonmarked houses could be derived from old Italy, but at the same time the general American consciousness is pretty capitalistic, and so both sides, (student of history vs. current American economic system) have pretty heavy ammo.
Endless_Helix 03-21-05, 08:09 AM	On the topic of Sharn, it seems like a cross between London and New York at the turn of the century. Definately more New York than London though, becaue of it's relation to the rest of the country. The One thing missing from the Cold War equation of Khorvaire v Sarlona is that Khorvaire doesn't have the paranoia that infused the western world at the time. Your average citizen would be hard pressed to tell you anything about sarlona, let alone it's government because, in their view, sarlona doesn't have much to do with them on an individual basis. Americans could quote at you lots of propaganda and tell you how best to build a bomb shelter, especially during the earlier part of the Cold War era.