Eberron/board newbie w/questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron/board newbie w/questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MOTHdevil
09-22-05, 08:33 PM Hi all-

I'm not a big fan of people who start off their first post with a question, but I guess I'll have to endure being a hypocrit for a bit.

Anyhow... Just to give you some quick background, I'm a newbie 3.0/3.5 DM who's been a player of the system (and Eberron setting) for some time now. I'm by no means a rules-oriented guy. To be honest, I haven't even read all of the PHB, but I know enough about the system from session-playing, and I'm an experienced 1st/2nd edition DM as well. I've been playing D&D in various incarnations off and on for the last 20 years or so. I've never been a fan of "shake and bake" campaigns, and prefer to make my own fro scratch... But my gaming group prefers official supplements, so I go with the flow.

To get to the point, I'm going to be DMing an arc in our Eberron campaign shortly, and the crux of my idea is a sort of "rift-like" invasion of the Eberron pantheon and world by Tiamat. It'll start with secret messages and small cults, and culminate likely in something bigger. Obviously, her sticky fingers in Eberron will also set some other things in motion the players will have to deal with over the course of a few levels and sessions.

What I've found so far in my Eberron readings is a lack of detail on the religious system of the world. My "main DM" told me that it's intentionally vague, so that said, does introducing other gods into the world (with the express intend on "invading" it) contridict anything established or otherwise seem wonky?

This also brings up some other tangent questions as well, such as how do I explain "world-walking" within the framework of the Eberron sourcebook and the D&D core cosmology such that it makes sense? Eberron's planar cosmology is clearly different than D&D core. My base idea is simply the infinite staircase has doorways leading to other prime material planes, and these planes, of course, are the framework on which all others orbit.

I'm also curious on the origins of the mournland, as this might also be something I'd like to work in here. My understanding is this has been made intentionally vague as well?

Blah blah blah. Sorry about the wordiness. Any thoughts? :D
Majorafire77
09-22-05, 08:50 PM What I've found so far in my Eberron readings is a lack of detail on the religious system of the world. My "main DM" told me that it's intentionally vague, so that said, does introducing other gods into the world (with the express intend on "invading" it) contridict anything established or otherwise seem wonky?
I think that the Eberron designers intended gods to be more like our world and less like FR (assuming you're familiar with that). We don't know if there's a god in RL, but everyone in FR knows that there are a bunch of gods and I'm sure some have even seen the gods. By having an invasion of Eberron by Tiamat you'd effectively remove all of the mystery from it imo. I think that maybe you should change it around to some sort of very powerful dragon using the Chamber and stuff like that attempting to achieve godhood. Using a god from the beginning though? Not something I'd do in my campaign.
This also brings up some other tangent questions as well, such as how do I explain "world-walking" within the framework of the Eberron sourcebook and the D&D core cosmology such that it makes sense? Eberron's planar cosmology is clearly different than D&D core. My base idea is simply the infinite staircase has doorways leading to other prime material planes, and these planes, of course, are the framework on which all others orbit.
I think that there's a thread on Planescape + Eberron around these boards somewhere. Unless I'm mistaken, Planescape was originally meant to link all of the settings together, which could explain "world-walking". I wouldn't do that, however, because it would attract such Epic guys as Elminster and the FR gods to Eberron, turning it into another FR. :yuck: Not cool.
I'm also curious on the origins of the mournland, as this might also be something I'd like to work in here. My understanding is this has been made intentionally vague as well?
Right. While eventually much of Eberron will be covered in sourcebooks and novels I think that a couple things such as the origin of the Mournland will not be completely covered (though hints may be dropped).
Medesha
09-22-05, 08:53 PM Welcome to the boards, 3.5, and Eberron!

The origin of the Mournlands is indeed vague, and left deliberately so by the writers. The idea is that every DM can tailor their Mournlands origin to suit their campaigns.

The gods aren't vague in the same way. The gods are not at present as in other D&D worlds. What I mean is, while many people worship the gods of Eberron, the gods never appear, smite people, have love affairs with mortals, etc. They may not even really exist. So in that sense they are "vague," but the worship and portfolios of the gods are fairly well-established.

I think your idea could work wonderfully, particularly given Eberron's dragon-centric history. Eberron is actually the name of one of the three primal dragons that some think made the world; Eberron is the world dragon, Siberys is the sky dragon, and Khyber is the dragon below (realm of demons and aberrations). Dragons were once a powerful race wiith godlike powers, and even now they're extremely intelligent and reclusive. Tiamat's arrival could have all sorts of possibilities. Perhaps Tiamat is an aspect of Khyber, the dragon below? Perhaps the Cult of the Dragon Below is engineering her arrival, or acting as her pawns?

I'm in the process of moving and my ECS is packed, so I can't review the cosmology section. Suffice to say, I think it'll be easy to get Tiamat onto Eberron. The Staircase idea sounds fine.

For more information on the religions of Eberron, go here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040705a) For more info on the dragons, go here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050418a) and here.[
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041227a)

Good luck, let us know if you need more help! :)
MOTHdevil
09-22-05, 09:41 PM Medesha & Majora: Thanks guys! Good thoughtful responses.

Majora- Thanks for pointing out the real world religious parallel. I think, though, that might actually play in my idea's favor. If a tangible god from another world suddenly exists, it's entirely possible many (including the PC's) might view that god as simply a high-powered mortal or abomination. Afterall, it's a physical "god" being where before there were none, and if the god-creature was destroyed (who knows where the arc will go) it might not come back. That implies it was never a true god to begin with.

I'd like to propose another parallel: aliens in the middle ages. If alien beings with "godlike" technology appeared prior to modern society, it is very likely they'd be perceived as messengers of god, agents of hell, whatever. They'd be mortal creatures perceived and elevated to a god-like immortal status.

That's the kind of dissenting discussion and opinion I'd like to have going on in my arc's subtext. I'm not worried about other D&D or FR native stuff popping up because, well, the main DM of the campaign wouldn't use it anyway. I'm reasonably comfortable it wouldn't set a flaky precedent going forward.

Medesha- Thanks for the cheerleading and links! I'll have to do some more research on the dragon connections. I'll bet you can see how green I am, considering I didn't think of that as a way to tie this in!
Edymnion
09-23-05, 03:28 PM Actually, if memory serves, Tiamat is already in Eberron.
The dragons in Eberron still worship the Draconic pantheon, and even the gods the humanoids in Khovaire worship are said to be represented as dragons from time to time.

And if you look in the ECS, the plane section, you can clearly find a star chart of a constillation of... a dragon with five heads. Tiamat.

Even if Tiamat as a god did come down into Eberron, people would not see her as a god. They would see her as a very powerful dragon. They already tend to think of the dragons as being near-godlike already, so they wouldn't actually think that she is an actual god. Just a very powerful dragon.

It would be much like it is in the real world. If an orb of light flew out of the sky and turned into a creature that could "do miracles", would most people be inclined to think it was God? No, they'd be much quicker to say that its an alien with extremely advanced technology. Because, as Arthur C. Clarke put it, "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Combine that with the fact that, as a physical being, you could injure and even kill Tiamat, it makes the case for her being a god rather weak. And we actually already have some beings in the setting with Divine Rank, the Rakasha Lords are about DR 5, if memory serves, in terms of power. But they are not gods, just VERY powerful beings.

Basically, Eberronites would not see Tiamat as being a god. Just a very powerful being.
Streamweaver
09-23-05, 03:34 PM Actually, if memory serves, Tiamat is already in Eberron.

I believe so. As I recall she's definitly a constellation and I think is revered by Dragons and I would imagine by priests of Sybers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MOTHdevil 09-22-05, 08:33 PM	Hi all- I'm not a big fan of people who start off their first post with a question, but I guess I'll have to endure being a hypocrit for a bit. Anyhow... Just to give you some quick background, I'm a newbie 3.0/3.5 DM who's been a player of the system (and Eberron setting) for some time now. I'm by no means a rules-oriented guy. To be honest, I haven't even read all of the PHB, but I know enough about the system from session-playing, and I'm an experienced 1st/2nd edition DM as well. I've been playing D&D in various incarnations off and on for the last 20 years or so. I've never been a fan of "shake and bake" campaigns, and prefer to make my own fro scratch... But my gaming group prefers official supplements, so I go with the flow. To get to the point, I'm going to be DMing an arc in our Eberron campaign shortly, and the crux of my idea is a sort of "rift-like" invasion of the Eberron pantheon and world by Tiamat. It'll start with secret messages and small cults, and culminate likely in something bigger. Obviously, her sticky fingers in Eberron will also set some other things in motion the players will have to deal with over the course of a few levels and sessions. What I've found so far in my Eberron readings is a lack of detail on the religious system of the world. My "main DM" told me that it's intentionally vague, so that said, does introducing other gods into the world (with the express intend on "invading" it) contridict anything established or otherwise seem wonky? This also brings up some other tangent questions as well, such as how do I explain "world-walking" within the framework of the Eberron sourcebook and the D&D core cosmology such that it makes sense? Eberron's planar cosmology is clearly different than D&D core. My base idea is simply the infinite staircase has doorways leading to other prime material planes, and these planes, of course, are the framework on which all others orbit. I'm also curious on the origins of the mournland, as this might also be something I'd like to work in here. My understanding is this has been made intentionally vague as well? Blah blah blah. Sorry about the wordiness. Any thoughts? :D
Majorafire77 09-22-05, 08:50 PM	What I've found so far in my Eberron readings is a lack of detail on the religious system of the world. My "main DM" told me that it's intentionally vague, so that said, does introducing other gods into the world (with the express intend on "invading" it) contridict anything established or otherwise seem wonky? I think that the Eberron designers intended gods to be more like our world and less like FR (assuming you're familiar with that). We don't know if there's a god in RL, but everyone in FR knows that there are a bunch of gods and I'm sure some have even seen the gods. By having an invasion of Eberron by Tiamat you'd effectively remove all of the mystery from it imo. I think that maybe you should change it around to some sort of very powerful dragon using the Chamber and stuff like that attempting to achieve godhood. Using a god from the beginning though? Not something I'd do in my campaign. This also brings up some other tangent questions as well, such as how do I explain "world-walking" within the framework of the Eberron sourcebook and the D&D core cosmology such that it makes sense? Eberron's planar cosmology is clearly different than D&D core. My base idea is simply the infinite staircase has doorways leading to other prime material planes, and these planes, of course, are the framework on which all others orbit. I think that there's a thread on Planescape + Eberron around these boards somewhere. Unless I'm mistaken, Planescape was originally meant to link all of the settings together, which could explain "world-walking". I wouldn't do that, however, because it would attract such Epic guys as Elminster and the FR gods to Eberron, turning it into another FR. :yuck: Not cool. I'm also curious on the origins of the mournland, as this might also be something I'd like to work in here. My understanding is this has been made intentionally vague as well? Right. While eventually much of Eberron will be covered in sourcebooks and novels I think that a couple things such as the origin of the Mournland will not be completely covered (though hints may be dropped).
Medesha 09-22-05, 08:53 PM	Welcome to the boards, 3.5, and Eberron! The origin of the Mournlands is indeed vague, and left deliberately so by the writers. The idea is that every DM can tailor their Mournlands origin to suit their campaigns. The gods aren't vague in the same way. The gods are not at present as in other D&D worlds. What I mean is, while many people worship the gods of Eberron, the gods never appear, smite people, have love affairs with mortals, etc. They may not even really exist. So in that sense they are "vague," but the worship and portfolios of the gods are fairly well-established. I think your idea could work wonderfully, particularly given Eberron's dragon-centric history. Eberron is actually the name of one of the three primal dragons that some think made the world; Eberron is the world dragon, Siberys is the sky dragon, and Khyber is the dragon below (realm of demons and aberrations). Dragons were once a powerful race wiith godlike powers, and even now they're extremely intelligent and reclusive. Tiamat's arrival could have all sorts of possibilities. Perhaps Tiamat is an aspect of Khyber, the dragon below? Perhaps the Cult of the Dragon Below is engineering her arrival, or acting as her pawns? I'm in the process of moving and my ECS is packed, so I can't review the cosmology section. Suffice to say, I think it'll be easy to get Tiamat onto Eberron. The Staircase idea sounds fine. For more information on the religions of Eberron, go here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040705a) For more info on the dragons, go here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050418a) and here.[ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041227a) Good luck, let us know if you need more help! :)
MOTHdevil 09-22-05, 09:41 PM	Medesha & Majora: Thanks guys! Good thoughtful responses. Majora- Thanks for pointing out the real world religious parallel. I think, though, that might actually play in my idea's favor. If a tangible god from another world suddenly exists, it's entirely possible many (including the PC's) might view that god as simply a high-powered mortal or abomination. Afterall, it's a physical "god" being where before there were none, and if the god-creature was destroyed (who knows where the arc will go) it might not come back. That implies it was never a true god to begin with. I'd like to propose another parallel: aliens in the middle ages. If alien beings with "godlike" technology appeared prior to modern society, it is very likely they'd be perceived as messengers of god, agents of hell, whatever. They'd be mortal creatures perceived and elevated to a god-like immortal status. That's the kind of dissenting discussion and opinion I'd like to have going on in my arc's subtext. I'm not worried about other D&D or FR native stuff popping up because, well, the main DM of the campaign wouldn't use it anyway. I'm reasonably comfortable it wouldn't set a flaky precedent going forward. Medesha- Thanks for the cheerleading and links! I'll have to do some more research on the dragon connections. I'll bet you can see how green I am, considering I didn't think of that as a way to tie this in!
Edymnion 09-23-05, 03:28 PM	Actually, if memory serves, Tiamat is already in Eberron. The dragons in Eberron still worship the Draconic pantheon, and even the gods the humanoids in Khovaire worship are said to be represented as dragons from time to time. And if you look in the ECS, the plane section, you can clearly find a star chart of a constillation of... a dragon with five heads. Tiamat. Even if Tiamat as a god did come down into Eberron, people would not see her as a god. They would see her as a very powerful dragon. They already tend to think of the dragons as being near-godlike already, so they wouldn't actually think that she is an actual god. Just a very powerful dragon. It would be much like it is in the real world. If an orb of light flew out of the sky and turned into a creature that could "do miracles", would most people be inclined to think it was God? No, they'd be much quicker to say that its an alien with extremely advanced technology. Because, as Arthur C. Clarke put it, "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Combine that with the fact that, as a physical being, you could injure and even kill Tiamat, it makes the case for her being a god rather weak. And we actually already have some beings in the setting with Divine Rank, the Rakasha Lords are about DR 5, if memory serves, in terms of power. But they are not gods, just VERY powerful beings. Basically, Eberronites would not see Tiamat as being a god. Just a very powerful being.
Streamweaver 09-23-05, 03:34 PM	Actually, if memory serves, Tiamat is already in Eberron. I believe so. As I recall she's definitly a constellation and I think is revered by Dragons and I would imagine by priests of Sybers.