Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Echo_that_Pains 12-17-06, 04:43 PM	Hey all. I will try to keep this somewhat simple and short. I have never played Eberron before but recently have been looking into the setting with growing interest. Along with my growing interest, I have some questions about the setting in general. I understand the FR setting (heros doing missions to gain wealth and reputation) and other settings similar to, but while looking through this setting it seems to have an entire different take completely. Eberron seems more like the characters are agents of different regions/governments and the missions they do are with their region's interests in mind. The best example of this I can make would be spying missions to gather information on an opposing faction, defend the region from a neighboring region, expose enemy spies in your ranks, etc. I guess overall Eberron seems more of a political based D&D game that is set much further in the future than FR - kind of like adventures/quests based in Montana US (FResque) compared to adventures/quests based in downtown L.A. US (Eberron). Am I incorrect in this assumption? Can anyone describe the setting any more to help me grasp the concept better? What are some of the high/low points of the entire setting (generals work fine). Thank you for any help that you can provide.
goblin_pride 12-17-06, 05:02 PM	You've opened a can of worms with these questions. My take on Eberron is that it does have a certain degree of political movements going on in the background and the vast majority of them won't affect the PCs at all, but when they do, the PCs are in for a nightmarish roller-coaster ride as they reel from one incident to another. As far as operating as agents of one government or political group, yes, that's a viable campaign alternative but I think most people prefer to keep their players isolated from the movers and shakers by varying degrees. One of the most appealing aspects of Eberron is that nothing is what it seems at first look, there's always a bit more to it than meets the eye. Eberron is a campaign that appeals to those of us that grew up watching the old detective, spy and gangster movies. It's a bit complicated to explain briefly and I'm sure I'm missing some of the better aspects in trying to sum it up, but that itself shows that the general feel of Eberron isn't terribly easy to quantify. Alright you lot, come on, flame away, I can take ya.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 12-17-06, 05:08 PM	I think the simplest way to put it is in the diferene in feel. If Forgotten realms is meant to feel like Lord of the Rings, Ebbreon owes every bit as much to Indianna jones and James Bond. The focus in Ebberon is very much more upon the players. Forgotten Relms has a lot of High level chariters and you feel the villans are farely matched, Ebberon has many Hight level foes, flesh warping Delkyr, the Nightmare creatures of Dalquor, the rakasha lords of dust the Dragons of Argonsen, and what ever you care to have emerge from Xen'dirk, the Last war has thinned the ranks of high level good guys. What that means is that by lv 6 or so your players are there own best allies and the buck stops with them. There is room for politcal intreging, the Last war ended without actualy resolving anything, the same tensions the same problems are there, but if you want to go dungion crawling there are lost empires, fallen kingdoms, even lost military bases to explore. Its also a world where magic is part of it, moast settings Magic is tacked on, changing dayly life very little. In Ebberon it has been embraced, from the Lighning rails that cross the land to the Corportate comercal dominion of the Dragon marked houses. Hope these hilights help.
Echo_that_Pains 12-17-06, 06:16 PM	If Forgotten realms is meant to feel like Lord of the Rings, Ebbreon owes every bit as much to Indianna jones and James Bond. This statment is my general impression of it. Thank you both for posting so far, you have really helped me understand this much better. It sounds that it is more futuristic feel to it than FR/others do. I have always been a major fan of the medieval RP'ing feel and have never played a current/future based RPG. I guess another reason that it seems so different to me is that magic, as Eld said, is not as big of a deal as it is in others. So far I am beginning to see that the PC's really aren't a group of mercenaries that are dictated/played by their alignments as they are sterotypically, but more a part of a faction. I understand that yes they can do stuff on their own and never see a city, but the overall feel is one of a collective more than individuals. Again, I could be completely incorrect in my perception. I think my apprehension toward Eberron roots from the major difference from what I am used to and is something that my understanding will help me overcome. To those that have played D&D since 1st edition, how does this setting feel compared to what you were used to? Thank you again for the feedback so far. If my questions sound/are stupid just smile and nod because I'm pulling the noobie card when it comes to this. :)
Edymnion 12-17-06, 06:59 PM	I guess overall Eberron seems more of a political based D&D game that is set much further in the future than FRActually, it is not set in a farther future than FR, it is set in roughly the same time, assuming that people in the setting are not mentally handicapped. It starts on the assumption of "Okay, people have had access to magic since the beginning. So why does the setting look like Medieval Europe with people casting fireball all the time?" Where it makes sense for something to be done with magic, they do it. Your capitol city is dark at night? Well, there's a quick and easy to make magical item called an Everburning Torch that just about any crafting wizard could make in his sleep, so why don't we put those on street corners? Boom, everbright lanterns in Sharn. "Gee, I wish we could get this trade caravan to the other side of the continent faster" turns into the lightning rail, which is really nothing more than your normal wagon train powered by magic. And its not like Faerun doesn't have sentient golems and airships. Eberron just stops trying to copy Tolkien and takes a modern look at "If they have these resources at their disposal, why haven't they used them?" and ran with it. I mean, really, how stupid does the inhabitants of a setting have to be to only use magic to blow stuff up with?
Sphere 12-17-06, 07:23 PM	Actually, it is not set in a farther future than FR, it is set in roughly the same time, assuming that people in the setting are not mentally handicapped. It starts on the assumption of "Okay, people have had access to magic since the beginning. So why does the setting look like Medieval Europe with people casting fireball all the time?" Where it makes sense for something to be done with magic, they do it. Your capitol city is dark at night? Well, there's a quick and easy to make magical item called an Everburning Torch that just about any crafting wizard could make in his sleep, so why don't we put those on street corners? Boom, everbright lanterns in Sharn. "Gee, I wish we could get this trade caravan to the other side of the continent faster" turns into the lightning rail, which is really nothing more than your normal wagon train powered by magic. And its not like Faerun doesn't have sentient golems and airships. Eberron just stops trying to copy Tolkien and takes a modern look at "If they have these resources at their disposal, why haven't they used them?" and ran with it. I mean, really, how stupid does the inhabitants of a setting have to be to only use magic to blow stuff up with? The mentally handicapped bit was a bit harsh. I know quite a few of them that would have imagined using magic in practical, non-blow-stuff-up, ways. But other than that he is dead on. If anything there is more magic in the FR than Eberron, with all the high level wizards and sorcerers in just about every country, wild magic zones, and entire armies of lesser spell casters. I want to say there were even entire flying cities in one story I read. It's a wonder the planet hasn't been blown up yet if all they do is fight each other with it.
Echo_that_Pains 12-17-06, 07:49 PM	Thanks for the additional feedback everyone! Edymnion - Your post has been the unveiling of my understanding. I think I have a good understanding of Eberron is now after reading your post and you have relieved my apprehension completely. I now see why this is such an appealing CS. My last question is probably this: Where should I start (bookwise) that would help me get started? I would assume that everyone will say the Eberron Campaign Setting, so I will go ahead and include that as an unwritten suggestion. Are there any other books, adventures, etc that would be of interest in learning this? Thank you again so much for the feedback - you all rock!
turalisj 12-17-06, 08:02 PM	Any of the Eberron books, except races of Eberron. While I personaly have nothing against the book, there have been claims made that Keith had a bit too much to drink when making it. Realy though, the books you want to purchase depend on the route you want to take when learning about Eberron. If your main concern is exploring, Explorers Handbook. For learning about the five nations, the book of the same name. Etc, etc.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 12-17-06, 08:11 PM	Start with Keith Backers Dragon shards, right here on the D&D web sight, Magic of Ebberon is very good for seeing the varius ways magic is used in the setting (Including details on Elemental binding, one of the key 'Industrial' magics), like the Kranathi necromancers and Zilargo binders.
Edymnion 12-17-06, 08:25 PM	The mentally handicapped bit was a bit harsh.Not really. The inability of the NPCs in the setting to make basic leaps of logic like "If its dark, and I have magic that can make light, I should make a magic item that provides light. If I can make one light to light one room, we can make many lights to illuminate entire cities." There are so many mundane uses of magic that are in Eberron that are really just common sense, the only reason you don't find them in other settings (aside from the obvious answer of the other settings being very old, and essentially from the time before the game was really established) is that the characters in those settings must have some kind of mental block that prevents them from using magic as anything more than a combat weapon.
PoeticJustice 12-18-06, 12:25 AM	Not really. The inability of the NPCs in the setting to make basic leaps of logic like "If its dark, and I have magic that can make light, I should make a magic item that provides light. If I can make one light to light one room, we can make many lights to illuminate entire cities." There are so many mundane uses of magic that are in Eberron that are really just common sense, the only reason you don't find them in other settings (aside from the obvious answer of the other settings being very old, and essentially from the time before the game was really established) is that the characters in those settings must have some kind of mental block that prevents them from using magic as anything more than a combat weapon. That's an unfair oversimplification. Forgotten Realms operates under an entirely different understanding of magic. The campaign setting states quite clearly that the magicians of that world consider magic an Art to be used by the select few, not a tool for popular convenience, as is the common understanding on Eberron. I like Eberron a lot better than FR, but throwing around terms like "mentally handicapped" is a great way to achieve nothing.
hiryuu 12-18-06, 01:03 AM	That's an unfair oversimplification. Forgotten Realms operates under an entirely different understanding of magic. The campaign setting states quite clearly that the magicians of that world consider magic an Art to be used by the select few, not a tool for popular convenience, as is the common understanding on Eberron. I like Eberron a lot better than FR, but throwing around terms like "mentally handicapped" is a great way to achieve nothing. An art? Seriously? Then why isn't it festooning everything? After all, if it's one thing artists can't do, it's keep their traps shut about their art. In fact, artists love to show off their stuff, love to have their stuff shown off, and, yes, even sell it.
PoeticJustice 12-18-06, 02:03 AM	An art? Seriously? Then why isn't it festooning everything? After all, if it's one thing artists can't do, it's keep their traps shut about their art. In fact, artists love to show off their stuff, love to have their stuff shown off, and, yes, even sell it. To an extent, there is a lot of festooning. There are definitely more named spells in Forgotten Realms material than anywhere else. Also, mages' fairs and the like provide the economy you're looking for. The key difference is that Eberron opens this to the masses. In the Forgotten Realms, that's just not the case. Commoners can't afford, wouldn't fully appreciate (in the minds' of the casters), and don't have access to magical conveniences because wizards are mysterious and keep to their own designs instead of going into business. EDIT: By the way, this argument seems to be dragging the thread off course. If anyone realy wants to discuss this with me (not that I really think anyone does), they can PM me or start a new thread. Otherwise I'm no longer replying in this matter.
Nived 12-18-06, 10:42 AM	I'm surprised no one linked this. If you want a very simple, clear, straight forward into to Eberron then I direct you to the fine power point presentation one of our forum members created for his new players. It really is a nice intro to Eberron. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=749380
turalisj 12-18-06, 11:06 PM	An art? Seriously? Then why isn't it festooning everything? After all, if it's one thing artists can't do, it's keep their traps shut about their art. In fact, artists love to show off their stuff, love to have their stuff shown off, and, yes, even sell it. Do you know how much you can sell good art that you make yourself? I could make a bowl, glaze it over so it looks like something you might find in a museum, then find some sucker to buy it for four times it's worth. There's an old saying for artists.... If it don't sell, raise the price tag. :D