Post/Author/DateTime	Post
realdm 09-19-05, 09:25 AM	hi. does anyone know where i can find nice encounter table for Khorvaire, have any suggestion or would post his own tables here?? thanks!!!
Sereno 09-19-05, 09:39 AM	Unfortunately, you won't find a table of Eberron encounters for this reason: Search Slow, Fight Fast An Eberron adventure typically involves slow periods of investigation and exposition broken up by intervals of furious action. Whenever action occurs, it should be intense and dramatic. The typical adventure sacrifices “wandering monster” encounters in favor of fewer, more challenging battles. This is especially true of urban adventures. Basically, you should plan your encounters so they have an impact on the story and add to the excitement. There are lots of resources for this on the boards ... many of the 101/1001 posts give lots of minor encounters and things to use.
realdm 09-23-05, 06:41 AM	i dont agree with you. obviously a well structured adventure should keep the encounters controlled, but during long period of travels there must be random encounters to keep players and dm interested. i am not talking about monsters and hack and slash, i also think about commoners, priests, a group of cannith artificers.. and so on..
Sereno 09-23-05, 08:45 AM	i dont agree with you. obviously a well structured adventure should keep the encounters controlled, but during long period of travels there must be random encounters to keep players and dm interested. i am not talking about monsters and hack and slash, i also think about commoners, priests, a group of cannith artificers.. and so on.. Hey, it's your game. But, you're not just disagreeing with me ... you're disagreeing with Keith, the designer of the campaign world! :D Personally, during long periods of travel I just follow the Indiana Jones "red line" method. Unless it's *necessary* for the PCs to encounter something for the story I just show them the map and point to where they go.... FWIW, you could probably just use the standard encounter tables in the DMG, just ignore the entries for dragons (you won't encounter nearly as many in Eberron) ....
realdm 09-23-05, 11:32 AM	my point is that the encounters i want are made to add flavour and to make the players feel like they are in a living world.. not for the hack and slash. i am sure that the point of Keith Baker is that you shouldnt have random encounters in a developed adventure(while you are playing the "story") not while you are travelling
TheRedRobedWizard 09-23-05, 11:49 AM	The point about random encounters was that all encounters (even "while travelling") should be planned. Don't just roll on some table, "Oh look, some Displacer Beasts". Pick out each "random" encounter ahead of time, just make them look quasi-random. An example: The PCs are travelling from Sharn to Wroat, but haven't the funds for a Lightning Rail ride. It will take 6 days to travel by foot. Day 1: (Evening) Encounter a band of travellers going to Sharn. The leader's name is Berra, she is a Shifter who looks well trained in the ways of combat. Day 2: No encounters. Day 3: - (Noon-ish) Encounter two Owlbears stopping to snack on the remains of another traveller. - (Nightfall) Bandit attack. Eight 2nd level Experts, One 4th level Rogue. - (Overnight) An injured traveller stumbles into the campsite and collapses. He doesn't wake til morning. When he does, he says his name is Naryl and explains to the PCs that he was attacked by some monstrous beastie in the woods. Day 4: No encounters. Day 5: (Morning) Find a demolished wagon. The contents have been ransacked, however, a DC 30 Search check reveals a hidden compartment containing a sack of 20 Platinum Dragons and a ruby worth 500gp. Day 6: - (Afternoon) Encounter with a Wroat patrol. There are rumors of an assassin in the area that conveniently matches the description of one of the PCs. PCs are allowed to go about their business, but are watched carefully. - (Evening) Arrive in Wroat proper. Find an inn. See, no random encounters. All planned, all useable. -TRRW
makeshiftwings 09-23-05, 11:59 AM	Five Nations has a bunch of encounter tables.
Siran Dunmorgan 09-23-05, 12:20 PM	When running Eberron games, I do use encounter tables, but they're specific to the adventure that I'm running. For example, for an adventure that I wrote set primarily in the Shadow Marches, I devised the following for the days of river travel: Roll once per twilight: 2d10 2-3 1d4 Will o'Wisps 4-5 1d3 Chuuls 6-7 Tendriculos 8-10 3d4 Orcs (hunting band)* 11-12 3d8 Dragonshard prospectors (half-orcs, humans)* 13-14 Constrictor Snake, giant 15-16 Gibbering Mouther 17-18 2-4 Gricks 19-20 Green Hag* Encounters marked with an asterisk (*), while random, represent sentient beings who might have something to offer the party besides combat—and rolling the same asterisked result on multiple nights indicated contact with the same creature or party, i.e., it's the same band of dragonshard prospectors you met two nights ago. In the case of the Green Hag, if the party handles her well, i.e., offering food, drink, and conversation, she'll even be happy to provide some guidance about where they're going—though she won't go with them: she avoids the old daelkyr-tainted places. The idea is that the 'random' encounters you use should serve the story, rather than being truly random. If you're familiar with The Hero with a Thousand Faces, by Joseph Campbell[1], think of the travel stage of the adventure as The Road of Trials. There are challenges to overcome, but the rewards are things that by happenstance are also the tools or allies that the heroes require to triumph in the quest. As the designers of the adventure, we as Dungeon Masters can tailor these things to the needs of the party. For instance—and I'm speaking more or less off-the-cuff here: • An artificer chance-met on the lighting rail might require assistance in some small matter, and as a reward offers the party an item that they later find invaluable in breaching the wards on their adversary's lair. • The griffin-trainer that they assist on the road might later prove a useful contact when aerial escape from the Storm Temple of the Devourer becomes necessary.[2] Again, these are 'random' encounters, but they are nonetheless integral to the story you're telling with your players. For this reason, it's hard to say 'here is an encounter table for travelers on the rail lines around Fairhaven'. While such things can be devised, they are not as useful as vignette encounter descriptions from which you, as Dungeon Master can simply choose. —Siran Dunmorgan [1] And if you're not, and you are not already a literary genius—step away from your computer now, and run, do not walk, to the nearest bookstore and purchase this book, then take it home and read it. [2] Now, there's an idea for an adventure villain—a Lyrandar heir cleric of the Devourer, in the Devourer's aspect as a storm god.
realdm 09-23-05, 01:43 PM	i think some of you misunderstand the spirit of eberron.. its not all about making movie-like linear adventures. i'd like to hear keith opinion about encounter tables.. as i said my tables are needed to enchance the flavour, not for the xp. especially within the five nations 80% of the encounters will be roleplaying occasion,which will hopefully help to define the setting (let's say, the kings guard informing the pcs about rumors of war), keep the dm up with surprises and give a touch of realism to the travel
Bud Green 09-23-05, 03:52 PM	I agree with realdm. I don't believe that the world, and every encounter, should exist solely for the PC's benefit, or be tailored to their needs. This sort of treatment makes the world feel contrived and 'unreal'. The world is what it is. If you set out through the wilderness, you should have a chance to encounter the creatures that live there. Random encounter charts are a time-tested way to handle this, and I don't see why it should be any different in Eberron. Random encounter charts can include encounters with other travellers, merchant caravans, mercenary companies, etc - not just monsters. The more civilized an area is, the less chance that hostile monsters will be encountered. As the PCs venture further into dangerous wilderness areas, they run a greater risk of encountering the various hostile denizens of that wilderness. Random encounter charts can add spice and variety to a game, and, when used properly, can help make the world seem consistent and believable. I don't understand the recent backlash against them, but I have seen many posts lately berating them.
Sereno 09-23-05, 04:14 PM	Random encounter charts can add spice and variety to a game, and, when used properly, can help make the world seem consistent and believable. I don't understand the recent backlash against them, but I have seen many posts lately berating them. I don't think any of this has been a backlash, but maybe I'm not reading the same posts that you are (I'm just reading this one) The typical "random wilderness encounters" remind me too much of that OOTS script with the Displacer Beasts ... they *know* they've got no purpose other than to run into the "PCs" so they hide so they won't get killed. There's no reason why planned encounters need to feel linear. In my Eberron campaign, they give me the freedom to intertwine plot elements because I know what groups and storylines are "out there." I definately want my PCs to feel like they're part of a world and give them multiple plot hooks for multiple paths to choose from, some overlapping and some not. Also, I'm all for having encounters that suit the environment the PCs are in; I never meant that every encounter should BENEFIT the PCs ... some might even be TPK-level, that they had better run from! I just don't like the whole *feel* of random encounter: "Let's see (roll some dice) ... two ... um ... ogres, yeah, ogres ... burst out of the undergrowth and attack you." In most games I've ever played, as soon as an encounter of this type comes up the PCs want to know where the ogres came from?, how many others are there?, why are they raiding here and now?, should they go wipe them out?, will some one pay them for that?, is anyone else hunting them?, etc. Now, suddenly, I've got to make all this up on the fly just because some table told me "ogres." I'd much prefer to have an "ogre lair with raiders", and a "hungry wolf pack", and a "caravan under attack by bandits" set of encounters all ready to go and throw them in at times that seem appropriate. Are the PCs near where the ogre lair is, have some ogre raiders hit them. Are the just sticking to the road, they come across the caravan. I also don't have to throw out an encounter they avoid or miss, I just save it and use it again.
Siran Dunmorgan 09-23-05, 04:33 PM	i think some of you misunderstand the spirit of eberron.. its not all about making movie-like linear adventures. i'd like to hear keith opinion about encounter tables.. as i said my tables are needed to enchance the flavour, not for the xp. especially within the five nations 80% of the encounters will be roleplaying occasion,which will hopefully help to define the setting (let's say, the kings guard informing the pcs about rumors of war), keep the dm up with surprises and give a touch of realism to the travel If you want Kieth's opinion on something, post it in the Ask Kieth Baker thread; he may respond to other threads, but he's sure to respond to that one. The examples I provided aren't necessarily linear: I've had my players encounter people and things that I may never use, but that I've set the ground-work for if ever I do—it's a wonderful feeling when one of your players realizes that an item they picked up in a 'random' encounter a year (of real time) before has suddenly become important. The idea is basically cinematic, but not necessarily linear: consider Raiders of the Lost Ark, for example. Indy goes to Nepal because he needs the head-piece to the Staff of Ra. Well, we never see the adventure where Marian acquired it, do we? All that's relevant in Raiders is that she has it. But there's clearly another adventure lurking in the background. With respect to your point that "some of you misunderstand the spirit of Eberron… it's not all about making movie-like linear adventures," you're probably correct, in that it's not all about making such adventures. However, it does strongly lend itself to the cinematic or 'movie-like' style, because it was deliberately designed that way. The Eberron Campaign Setting—page 7—reveals this point clearly: Make no mistake—the world of Eberron proudly takes its place among the D&D worlds that have come before, with a cinematic flair and an eye toward the best action-adventure movies ever filmed. The campaign's story elements were designed with this in mind, and we also built it into the game mechanics with the introduction of action points into the D&D game. Taking this statement at face value, it is easy to believe that Eberron adventures should play out like movies. But, again, your point is well taken: when we think of a living Eberron, we may also think of things that happen outside the context of the narrow plot of the current adventure. In this context, it is more helpful to think of adventure tales such as Les Trois Mousquetaires, which contained a great many elements outside the main line of the plot: d'Artagnan's encounters with ungracious inkeepers, or his remembered conversations with his father, or, indeed, the whole device of his mother's healing ointment—elements which are often cut as unnecessary from cinematic versions of the story properly so called. Now, note that encounters such as d'Artagnan's dealings with the unsavory innkeeper—who himself regarded d'Artagnan as an unsavory Gascon—are not the sort of thing normally found in an encounter table as such: rather, they should be the result of your own planning of vignettes or cameo scenes specific to your Eberron. Finally, all that said, encounter tables for a few areas of Khorvaire, such as the Whispering Wood in Aundair, or the Western Talenta Plains, where Karrnath, Valenar, and the Halfling lands come together, can be found in Five Nations. —Siran Dunmorgan
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 09-23-05, 04:37 PM	Actually I use wandering monster tables all the time. The thing is, make them realistic and keep them in line with the game. For instance the last session, one of the PCs just happened to bash in a door in some ancient ruins. Roll random monster encounter, 6 med scorpians. Party camps out, random encounter, choker, roll listen to notice the PCs. Choker hides outside the entrance and waits for first person to come out and attack. The thing with eberron is you have to play the random encounters just as intensly as the planned encounters. Random encounters create the effect of OH **** what just happened? I do this by making the encounter table ECL -3 to ECL +3, and occassionally if you write your own adventures throw a monster at them that they can't beat with out some super luck.
Siran Dunmorgan 09-23-05, 05:02 PM	I don't believe that the world, and every encounter, should exist solely for the PC's benefit, or be tailored to their needs. This sort of treatment makes the world feel contrived and 'unreal'. You know that the way most people use the words, Eberron is contrived and unreal, yes? :) [I love this hobby!] Random encounters properly so called—that simplistic form where the Dungeon Master rolls percentile dice, and determines that there are 1d4 giant spiders lurking in the trees hanging over the road—is as anathema to that sense of spontaneity as every encounter being perfectly scripted. In the example encounter table that I described above, there are several creatures that, if the party is where they're supposed to be, cannot reach the party—the tendriculos, in particular. They're included solely as a starting point for me to describe life along the river. The dragonshard prospectors are probably traveling by raft, as is the party, and they may tie up together for safety during the night. Now, aye, I did write the adventure of which that encounter table is a component. But the issue is not how you arrive at the determination that an encounter has occurred, it's in how you use that encounter. Far from feeling contrived, set-piece encounters should point out, introduce, or emphasize some aspect of the setting of which the players need to be aware. For instance, if I'm traveling down a river in Xen'drik in a hired boat, and a giant crocodile attacks the boat, the purpose of the encounter should go deeper than 'provide something for the characters to fight' Rather, it should be used to point out—for instance—that the boat captain has a prosthetic leg, that you didn't notice before. It might not be important in the adventure you're on now, but the next time you're coming down this way, it might be important that this fellow has what appears to be a 'forged replacemet for his leg. This type of encounter was often used in movies—it happens in westerns, in films about Africa, South America, and Asia—to demonstrate some aspect of one or another of the characters, such as their bravery or their resourcefulness, or even simply that there is something unusual about them. The point is that they don't have to feel contrived, nor do they have to be random. I could easily, for example, have written the encounter table above to say that on the first night, the party encounters a party of dragonshard prospectors, on the second night they're attacked by a giant snake—and that the crew of the raft cowers while the party deals with it—and that on the third night they encounter the green hag who has some inkling of what's going on. In terms of how I present these things to my players, they might as well be random encounters, because I'll present them as chance meetings. And, in general, it's better for your players if you know what to expect in an encounter, and honestly, that happens more often if you pre-scripted at least the framework of the encounter than if you roll some dice and think "hmm… two chuuls attack the party" thirty seconds before you have to run the encounter. Set-piece or vignette encounters add to the sense of depth of the living world: they do not detract from it. —Siran Dunmorgan
Bud Green 09-23-05, 06:28 PM	I don't think every encounter needs to have a purpose with regards to advancing the plot, in the same way that every scene in a movie must have such a purpose. Movies are fundamentally different in that their pacing *must* be extremely tight. The director has to tell a long story in a very limited time. It is quite imperative that every scene contribute, and there is little to no room for excess. Time constraints are one of the paramount concerns that moviemakers must deal with. The same is not true of an RPG campaign. Campaigns are generally open-ended and can last for years. We have the luxury of taking our time to unfold our stories at a leisurely pace. As DMs, we do have an obligation to keep the game moving along enough to not bore our players. But if the players are into it, there is no reason why there can't be encounters that are not related to the plot, and do not have an overarching purpose. For example, in the LotR trilogy, the characters often make long and dangerous treks that are not really played out on screen. They are assumed to happen, and, as you said, any encounter along the way will be used to advance the plot or relay important information to the audience. In a campaign, if the party has to make a two-week trek through dangerous wilderness, I feel it is a disservice to gloss over it in the same fashion. Doing so completely negates the danger aspect, to the point where it is taken for granted that the PCs arrive safely. I would rather devote an entire session or two to the trek, using random encounter charts prepared for that region. When the PC's do finally arrive, they will appreciate the perils of traveling through the wilds because they will have experienced it firsthand, and they will feel they have accompolished something just by arriving at their destination in-tact. The concept of 'dangerous wilderness' will not just be a flowery description, but a harsh reality that they can attest to. It is a case of show, don't tell. Due to time constraints, movies sometimes have to tell. We have the luxury of not resorting to such contrivances, and a richer, more realistic experience can be had as a result. While Eberron might be designed to promote a cinematic style of play, I don't think it should be the overriding concern, and I certainly don't think that campaigns need to proceed at the breakneck speed of movie pacing.
realdm 09-26-05, 04:23 AM	replying siran: so the last session i had was the beginning of the second serie of my campaign. some of the pcs just left sharn for the mournlands however they are without gold and are followed by a mortal hunter. so they decide not to use the lighting rails or similia and buy the old beloved cart. the trip last 2 months, (a 12 hours session). every major location had some important encounter or mini adventure.. however don you think it wouldnt have been the same to do the whole adventure without random encounters? they spiced up my day (relaxing while playing some farmers migrating to Wroat, bringing news of assaults from dargun) conveyed the feel of being in Breland (meet the jungle boys or the swords of liberty) and at the end they made the whole trip much more interesting..i guess i am going to regret all this when thy'll have access to teleports.. so my adventure can still look very cinematic(i'll be glad to send you some videos, but they are in Italian=))but at the same time i want my eberron to breath and pulse just like a real world.