Epic Eberron Campaign Idea: The True Mourning [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Eberron Campaign Idea: The True Mourning [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edymnion
01-09-05, 10:05 PM Okay, Epic Level Eberron:

"Three years ago, the beautiful land of Cyre was wiped from the face of Eberron in a white hot flare of arcane energy. The very laws of nature and magic themselves were warped in ways no one in Khovaire truely understands, and always, there is the dead gray mist guarding it's boarders. No one knows why the Mourning happened, but it did.

Many mysteries exist here. If the Mourning was an accident, why did it stop so neatly at the boarders of Cyre, not touching anything else around it? If it was an attack, who could weild such incredible destructive power, and then simply set it down again? Surely, it could not be any of the nations on Khovaire, or they would have used it again to consolidate their power. The Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust would do the same, using such a terrible weapon to take control of everything they deemed to make theirs.

Recent expeditions have been sent to Xen'Drik for the express purpose of mapping it's shores, and finding out how big this continent truely is. The expedition was lost, never to be heard from again. However, miraculously, a Final Messanger from one of the Warforged involved found it's way to Stormreach before it's power failed totally. Once recharged, it's message was played back. For those who know what the message contained, life changed. The world changed. History itself changed. There, in that small metal orb were the last minutes of the warforged's life, as seen through their eyes. The deck rolled, the sea was churning. The coastline curved inland, and there, in the middle of Xen'Drik, was a wall of dead gray mist rising high and ominous into the sky."

What organization has the ability to not only destroy Cyre, but refrain from using that power again? The only one I can think of are the Dragons. The ECS says the Mourning was the biggest display of arcane power since the destruction of the giants in Xen'Drik.

The Giant culture in Xen'Drik was destroyed by the Dragons because they had learned the secrets to Dragon magic. Look on the inside cover of your ECS, at the map. There is a large section of sea in the middle of Xen'Drik, but both the land above and below this is referred to collectively as Xen'Drik.

The Dragons destroyed the Giants in an explosion that people compare the Mourning to. Destroyed because they were playing around with Dragon magic. Fast forward many thousands of years, to Cyre. A nation in the middle of war, trying to find any magical advantage it can. A nation that is already known for recovering the secrets of the Warforged from Xen'Drik (or so the rumors say).

Could Cyre, and House Cannith, have discovered the beginning secrets of Draconic magic in one of their deep incursions to the mysterious continent? If they did, the Dragons would be forced to wipe that knowledge away as they did with the Giants. However, the presence of the Dragonmarks in Khovaire mean they can't wipe everything out without destroying much of the Prophesy with it.

The answer? A surgical strike. Cyre was destroyed to the last man for tampering in things mortal men should not know, and only Cyre.

But, what could possible be so terrible that the Dragons are willing to commit Genocide to cover up? And since some creatures survived the Mourning, and a good many magical items also survived, what wonders may still lie beneath the waters behind the gray mist in Xen'Drik? And what horrors could await within a region who's destruction surely shook the foundations of Eberron itself, compared to a piffling triffle of a pop that was Cyre?

By the time this campaign is over, you can expect to dive deeper into Xen'Drik than any other group in history. You will find the survivors of the Giants still hiding, still fearing the Dragon's return (use the Eldritch Giants from MM3 for the Xen'Drik giants). You will delve into a realm of destruction that makes the Mournlands look like a walk in the park by comparison. And by the time all is said and done, there will be a show down with the Dragon Council itself. What was the secret first discovered by the giants, and then by Cyre which was so important, the very fabric of nature itself had to be destroyed in order to ensure it was never discovered again?

Personally, I would make the secret be the key to Khyber's prison, which would unleash the great fiendish dragon god of legend onto the world once more. After all, the death of entire nations and races are a small price to pay for the continuance of the world.
TheRedRobedWizard
01-09-05, 10:19 PM Edymnion wins again. I will steal this for my own campaign when we get that high level.

-TRRW
Edymnion
01-09-05, 10:35 PM This could easily be scaled back for a normal Eberron campaign.
Or, as the real campaign, where the pre-Epic is the leadup.

Start it out with the PCs exploring the Mournlands for "phat loot".
As they level, get into the mystery of what really happened to the Mournland.
When they get to mid levels, introduce the discovery of gray mist in Xen'Drik.

They'll adventure around there for a while, and by the time they get into it, they should be near Epic. Once they hit Epic, the Dragon Council finally sits up and takes real notice.

Then you can shift it over from discovering the secret (say the key to Khyber's prison) to a defensive campaign, where the PCs are now charged with stopping another unknown organization that is close to discovering it on their own (perhaps the demons and devils of the Demon Wastes have been working to free Khyber, and are nearly there). Gotta stop them before they do, or die trying to keep them from finding Khyber and releasing him.
TheRedRobedWizard
01-09-05, 10:53 PM delorted.
Dex The King
01-09-05, 11:36 PM Death giants also work perfectly in Eberron, and they get really scary when given PC class levels.

I'm glad you made the connection from the Mournland to Xen'drik, it's only logical.

When the quori invaded, the giants used their most powerful magics (which they originally learned from the dragons) to sever Dal Quor's connection. The result? Dal Quor was almost cut off from the multiverse, and the backlash nearly destroyed Xen'drik.

This devastated the giants' empire. Their elven slves rebelled, and it seemed the only way to save themselves was to use their most powerful magics again. The dragons annihilated them (at least, most) before they could use them a second time.

Fast forward to the daelkyr war. The Gatekeepers, following the tutelage of the dragons, use powerful magic to seal up the daelkyr armies and make dimensional seals to keep Xoriat away. This proves that plane-altering magic is draconic in origin.

So, the dragons destroying Cyyre makes sense if they were trying to stop Cyre from messing with something they shouldn't have been.

The question is then, what in the name of the Prophecy was going on in Cyre? I agree with the idea of House Cannith finding some of the giants' magic, but I think it is up to the DM to determine what exactly that magic does.

The way I see it, the magic being the key to releasing Khyber makes perfect sense. Perhaps it is the very essence of Siberys and Eberron's magic that bound Khyber in the first place; the most powerful magic used in Eberron (the campaign setting), ever.

This magic can be altered, and used for different purposes, like removing coterminous planes, but the dragons do not want to take the risk of someone accidentally using it badly, or worse, discovering the original purpose and perverting it to release Khyber.

I love this idea.
Peter the Hegemon
01-10-05, 03:18 AM The Giant culture in Xen'Drik was destroyed by the Dragons because they had learned the secrets to Dragon magic.

*snip*

The Dragons destroyed the Giants in an explosion that people compare the Mourning to. Destroyed because they were playing around with Dragon magic.While I like your epic Eberron proposal, I have an issue with what you said in the quote above: In the timeline in Chapter 7 of the ECS, it clearly says that the dragons were the first to teach the giants arcane magic. Given what you say above, I think that if you want to keep that, you should reword it, since when I did, I thought, "Why would the dragons destroy the giants to knowing what they taught them? That's akin to a professor killing a student because he learned what he taught him." Of course they were playing around with "dragon magic"--that's the only magic they were taught. Now, using that power on the scale and purpose that the giants were (1st was to sever Dal Quor, 2nd was to have defeated the elf rebellion), I can understand, but just knowing dragon magic, not so much. :)
MarkB
01-10-05, 06:01 AM I like this whole idea a lot. One more thing that could be added is tying in the periodic wars between Dragons and Aereni Elves to the same cause. The Aereni took with them some of the secrets of Giant (and thus Dragon) magic when they left Xen'Drik, and the Undying Court have been investigating it ever since. One of the first things they did was to 'Mourn-proof' their adopted homeland, preventing the Dragons from annihilating them in a single strike as they had the Giants, and they have been very careful in their subsequent investigations, keeping knowledge of these magics restricted to within the Undying Court. Nevertheless, their experiments sometimes yield dangerous results which the Dragons detect, resulting in heavy reprisal attacks.

The last such experiment was the one which fused an Elven Dragonmarked House with Draconic heritage whilst retaining that House's dragonmark powers. This particular use of the magic was especially dangerous, meddling with the Prophecy itself, and resulted in the annihilation of House Vol and those Dragons foolish enough to aid the endeavour.
Edymnion
01-10-05, 12:52 PM While I like your epic Eberron proposal, I have an issue with what you said in the quote above: In the timeline in Chapter 7 of the ECS, it clearly says that the dragons were the first to teach the giants arcane magic. Given what you say above, I think that if you want to keep that, you should reword it, since when I did, I thought, "Why would the dragons destroy the giants to knowing what they taught them? That's akin to a professor killing a student because he learned what he taught him." Of course they were playing around with "dragon magic"--that's the only magic they were taught. Now, using that power on the scale and purpose that the giants were (1st was to sever Dal Quor, 2nd was to have defeated the elf rebellion), I can understand, but just knowing dragon magic, not so much. :)I'm making a distinction between Arcane magic and Dragon magic. Or, at least that the Dragon magic is a set of high level arcane/divine spells that only they know.

They taught magic to the Giants, who then took it to the next step and started replicating things they shouldn't have been replicating. Perhaps Dragon magic is actually Epic level magic, for instance.
Peter the Hegemon
01-10-05, 02:59 PM I'm making a distinction between Arcane magic and Dragon magic. Or, at least that the Dragon magic is a set of high level arcane/divine spells that only they know.

They taught magic to the Giants, who then took it to the next step and started replicating things they shouldn't have been replicating. Perhaps Dragon magic is actually Epic level magic, for instance.Ah, OK, that makes quite a bit more sense to me. :) If there's any way you to clarify that, I guess, that would help--I had read that post, and I was like, "What the heck, Edymnion should know better!"

In another question, the same timeline (I'm looking at the -40,000 entry) says that the giants were the one who "broke" Xen'drik, as it were, since the act of destroying the planar gate resulted in the cataclysm that sunk part of the continent into the sea. Are you referring to a different region of Xen'drik (when the dragons actually attacked in -39,000 YK)?

Not trying to poke a lot of holes in your setup; I think it's really cool. :) One suggestion, though--your "Dragon Council"--I don't know why, but the name just doesn't "do it" for me, as it was. I don't think you're referring to the Chamber, but I think a "cooler" name would be either to drop the "Dragon" and just have "the Council." If you're doing something that most of the dragons know about, then a "Dragonmoot" (yay for Entmoots) would be nice, but if you're doing a more secretive route, than a "the Conclave," "the Congress," "the Synod," "the Circle," or "the League" would be interesting alternatives. Just a thought! :)
Peter the Hegemon
01-10-05, 03:07 PM My first double post! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
Edymnion
01-10-05, 03:21 PM Yeah, I ment the Chamber.
And I must have missed that the middle was sunk by the backlash.

What can I say, I get an idea, I just go with it. Cleaning up the little details is what you do after you decide you like it, now when you're coming up with it :P

But the mist can still be in the broken middle anyway. If it was destroyed in the backlash, its likely because thats where the attempt was centered, which likely means thats where the best facilities for the attempt were location, which could also mean that it was the center of the Giant civilization. Would explain why they were so horribly crippled by the blow. Everything else would have radiated out from there, meaning its still a good location to center the blast on.
Dex The King
01-10-05, 04:55 PM About the sunken parts of Xen'drik, this is how I see it:

Say the magical backlash only sunk parts of Xen'drik, no mist. It and the other effects (the ECS makes some reference to plagues) cripple their empire enough for the elves to rebel, and for the rebellion to be a serious threat.

Even though, some of the giants' most powerful magicians would consider a little water to be just a minor setback, and begin working on more of the epic scale "Dragon" magic from the original location.

This is when the dragons intervene, and use their own "Dragon" magic; stopping the Xen'drik giants' round two and creating the mist.

Peter: In the timeline in Chapter 7 of the ECS, it clearly says that the dragons were the first to teach the giants arcane magic.

Edyminion: I'm making a distinction between Arcane magic and Dragon magic. Or, at least that the Dragon magic is a set of high level arcane/divine spells that only they know.

They taught magic to the Giants, who then took it to the next step and started replicating things they shouldn't have been replicating. Perhaps Dragon magic is actually Epic level magic, for instance.I take it a step further:

The dragons did teach the giants their style of magic, the style innate in their blood, that of the sorcerer.

But that's not what the dragons forbid the use of. What they won't tolerate is primordial draconic magic, the kind they would never teach to anyone but them (while strong, the Gatekeepers magic is far less powerful), the kind used by Eberron and Siberys to bind Khyber, the strongest of Epic level magic.

The giants took sorcery to the apex of its strength; to rival that of the primordial wyrms themselves, and that the dragons cannot allow, for magic of that strength could release Khyber, and maybe even directly reshape or undo the Prophecy, erasing existence as we know it!

This is also what House Cannith stumbled on in Xen'drik, the most closely guarded secret of the Patriarch and his closest aides, the secret that doomed poor Cyre.

So when I talk of "Dragon" magic, I mean those dragons, Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber. I think it needs a new name, to avoid confusion.
zerotkatama
01-10-05, 07:45 PM Why not Primal Magic?
debatedeus
01-10-05, 09:01 PM Additionally, the dragons taught the Giants a magic that was only to be used in times of great peril. The story, as I remember it from Mr. Baker, is that the Giants-with the blessing of the dragons-DID use their incredible "Primal Magic" to knock Dal Quor off of its axis. I thought that the dragons struck the giants down after they tried to use this magic on the elves during the elven revolution. Clearly, magic of this sort was used again, but in a weaker form, when the gatekeepers defeated Xoriat and changed its orbit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 01-09-05, 10:05 PM	Okay, Epic Level Eberron: "Three years ago, the beautiful land of Cyre was wiped from the face of Eberron in a white hot flare of arcane energy. The very laws of nature and magic themselves were warped in ways no one in Khovaire truely understands, and always, there is the dead gray mist guarding it's boarders. No one knows why the Mourning happened, but it did. Many mysteries exist here. If the Mourning was an accident, why did it stop so neatly at the boarders of Cyre, not touching anything else around it? If it was an attack, who could weild such incredible destructive power, and then simply set it down again? Surely, it could not be any of the nations on Khovaire, or they would have used it again to consolidate their power. The Dreaming Dark and the Lords of Dust would do the same, using such a terrible weapon to take control of everything they deemed to make theirs. Recent expeditions have been sent to Xen'Drik for the express purpose of mapping it's shores, and finding out how big this continent truely is. The expedition was lost, never to be heard from again. However, miraculously, a Final Messanger from one of the Warforged involved found it's way to Stormreach before it's power failed totally. Once recharged, it's message was played back. For those who know what the message contained, life changed. The world changed. History itself changed. There, in that small metal orb were the last minutes of the warforged's life, as seen through their eyes. The deck rolled, the sea was churning. The coastline curved inland, and there, in the middle of Xen'Drik, was a wall of dead gray mist rising high and ominous into the sky." What organization has the ability to not only destroy Cyre, but refrain from using that power again? The only one I can think of are the Dragons. The ECS says the Mourning was the biggest display of arcane power since the destruction of the giants in Xen'Drik. The Giant culture in Xen'Drik was destroyed by the Dragons because they had learned the secrets to Dragon magic. Look on the inside cover of your ECS, at the map. There is a large section of sea in the middle of Xen'Drik, but both the land above and below this is referred to collectively as Xen'Drik. The Dragons destroyed the Giants in an explosion that people compare the Mourning to. Destroyed because they were playing around with Dragon magic. Fast forward many thousands of years, to Cyre. A nation in the middle of war, trying to find any magical advantage it can. A nation that is already known for recovering the secrets of the Warforged from Xen'Drik (or so the rumors say). Could Cyre, and House Cannith, have discovered the beginning secrets of Draconic magic in one of their deep incursions to the mysterious continent? If they did, the Dragons would be forced to wipe that knowledge away as they did with the Giants. However, the presence of the Dragonmarks in Khovaire mean they can't wipe everything out without destroying much of the Prophesy with it. The answer? A surgical strike. Cyre was destroyed to the last man for tampering in things mortal men should not know, and only Cyre. But, what could possible be so terrible that the Dragons are willing to commit Genocide to cover up? And since some creatures survived the Mourning, and a good many magical items also survived, what wonders may still lie beneath the waters behind the gray mist in Xen'Drik? And what horrors could await within a region who's destruction surely shook the foundations of Eberron itself, compared to a piffling triffle of a pop that was Cyre? By the time this campaign is over, you can expect to dive deeper into Xen'Drik than any other group in history. You will find the survivors of the Giants still hiding, still fearing the Dragon's return (use the Eldritch Giants from MM3 for the Xen'Drik giants). You will delve into a realm of destruction that makes the Mournlands look like a walk in the park by comparison. And by the time all is said and done, there will be a show down with the Dragon Council itself. What was the secret first discovered by the giants, and then by Cyre which was so important, the very fabric of nature itself had to be destroyed in order to ensure it was never discovered again? Personally, I would make the secret be the key to Khyber's prison, which would unleash the great fiendish dragon god of legend onto the world once more. After all, the death of entire nations and races are a small price to pay for the continuance of the world.
TheRedRobedWizard 01-09-05, 10:19 PM	Edymnion wins again. I will steal this for my own campaign when we get that high level. -TRRW
Edymnion 01-09-05, 10:35 PM	This could easily be scaled back for a normal Eberron campaign. Or, as the real campaign, where the pre-Epic is the leadup. Start it out with the PCs exploring the Mournlands for "phat loot". As they level, get into the mystery of what really happened to the Mournland. When they get to mid levels, introduce the discovery of gray mist in Xen'Drik. They'll adventure around there for a while, and by the time they get into it, they should be near Epic. Once they hit Epic, the Dragon Council finally sits up and takes real notice. Then you can shift it over from discovering the secret (say the key to Khyber's prison) to a defensive campaign, where the PCs are now charged with stopping another unknown organization that is close to discovering it on their own (perhaps the demons and devils of the Demon Wastes have been working to free Khyber, and are nearly there). Gotta stop them before they do, or die trying to keep them from finding Khyber and releasing him.
TheRedRobedWizard 01-09-05, 10:53 PM	delorted.
Dex The King 01-09-05, 11:36 PM	Death giants also work perfectly in Eberron, and they get really scary when given PC class levels. I'm glad you made the connection from the Mournland to Xen'drik, it's only logical. When the quori invaded, the giants used their most powerful magics (which they originally learned from the dragons) to sever Dal Quor's connection. The result? Dal Quor was almost cut off from the multiverse, and the backlash nearly destroyed Xen'drik. This devastated the giants' empire. Their elven slves rebelled, and it seemed the only way to save themselves was to use their most powerful magics again. The dragons annihilated them (at least, most) before they could use them a second time. Fast forward to the daelkyr war. The Gatekeepers, following the tutelage of the dragons, use powerful magic to seal up the daelkyr armies and make dimensional seals to keep Xoriat away. This proves that plane-altering magic is draconic in origin. So, the dragons destroying Cyyre makes sense if they were trying to stop Cyre from messing with something they shouldn't have been. The question is then, what in the name of the Prophecy was going on in Cyre? I agree with the idea of House Cannith finding some of the giants' magic, but I think it is up to the DM to determine what exactly that magic does. The way I see it, the magic being the key to releasing Khyber makes perfect sense. Perhaps it is the very essence of Siberys and Eberron's magic that bound Khyber in the first place; the most powerful magic used in Eberron (the campaign setting), ever. This magic can be altered, and used for different purposes, like removing coterminous planes, but the dragons do not want to take the risk of someone accidentally using it badly, or worse, discovering the original purpose and perverting it to release Khyber. I love this idea.
Peter the Hegemon 01-10-05, 03:18 AM	The Giant culture in Xen'Drik was destroyed by the Dragons because they had learned the secrets to Dragon magic. snip The Dragons destroyed the Giants in an explosion that people compare the Mourning to. Destroyed because they were playing around with Dragon magic.While I like your epic Eberron proposal, I have an issue with what you said in the quote above: In the timeline in Chapter 7 of the ECS, it clearly says that the dragons were the first to teach the giants arcane magic. Given what you say above, I think that if you want to keep that, you should reword it, since when I did, I thought, "Why would the dragons destroy the giants to knowing what they taught them? That's akin to a professor killing a student because he learned what he taught him." Of course they were playing around with "dragon magic"--that's the only magic they were taught. Now, using that power on the scale and purpose that the giants were (1st was to sever Dal Quor, 2nd was to have defeated the elf rebellion), I can understand, but just knowing dragon magic, not so much. :)
MarkB 01-10-05, 06:01 AM	I like this whole idea a lot. One more thing that could be added is tying in the periodic wars between Dragons and Aereni Elves to the same cause. The Aereni took with them some of the secrets of Giant (and thus Dragon) magic when they left Xen'Drik, and the Undying Court have been investigating it ever since. One of the first things they did was to 'Mourn-proof' their adopted homeland, preventing the Dragons from annihilating them in a single strike as they had the Giants, and they have been very careful in their subsequent investigations, keeping knowledge of these magics restricted to within the Undying Court. Nevertheless, their experiments sometimes yield dangerous results which the Dragons detect, resulting in heavy reprisal attacks. The last such experiment was the one which fused an Elven Dragonmarked House with Draconic heritage whilst retaining that House's dragonmark powers. This particular use of the magic was especially dangerous, meddling with the Prophecy itself, and resulted in the annihilation of House Vol and those Dragons foolish enough to aid the endeavour.
Edymnion 01-10-05, 12:52 PM	While I like your epic Eberron proposal, I have an issue with what you said in the quote above: In the timeline in Chapter 7 of the ECS, it clearly says that the dragons were the first to teach the giants arcane magic. Given what you say above, I think that if you want to keep that, you should reword it, since when I did, I thought, "Why would the dragons destroy the giants to knowing what they taught them? That's akin to a professor killing a student because he learned what he taught him." Of course they were playing around with "dragon magic"--that's the only magic they were taught. Now, using that power on the scale and purpose that the giants were (1st was to sever Dal Quor, 2nd was to have defeated the elf rebellion), I can understand, but just knowing dragon magic, not so much. :)I'm making a distinction between Arcane magic and Dragon magic. Or, at least that the Dragon magic is a set of high level arcane/divine spells that only they know. They taught magic to the Giants, who then took it to the next step and started replicating things they shouldn't have been replicating. Perhaps Dragon magic is actually Epic level magic, for instance.
Peter the Hegemon 01-10-05, 02:59 PM	I'm making a distinction between Arcane magic and Dragon magic. Or, at least that the Dragon magic is a set of high level arcane/divine spells that only they know. They taught magic to the Giants, who then took it to the next step and started replicating things they shouldn't have been replicating. Perhaps Dragon magic is actually Epic level magic, for instance.Ah, OK, that makes quite a bit more sense to me. :) If there's any way you to clarify that, I guess, that would help--I had read that post, and I was like, "What the heck, Edymnion should know better!" In another question, the same timeline (I'm looking at the -40,000 entry) says that the giants were the one who "broke" Xen'drik, as it were, since the act of destroying the planar gate resulted in the cataclysm that sunk part of the continent into the sea. Are you referring to a different region of Xen'drik (when the dragons actually attacked in -39,000 YK)? Not trying to poke a lot of holes in your setup; I think it's really cool. :) One suggestion, though--your "Dragon Council"--I don't know why, but the name just doesn't "do it" for me, as it was. I don't think you're referring to the Chamber, but I think a "cooler" name would be either to drop the "Dragon" and just have "the Council." If you're doing something that most of the dragons know about, then a "Dragonmoot" (yay for Entmoots) would be nice, but if you're doing a more secretive route, than a "the Conclave," "the Congress," "the Synod," "the Circle," or "the League" would be interesting alternatives. Just a thought! :)
Peter the Hegemon 01-10-05, 03:07 PM	My first double post! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
Edymnion 01-10-05, 03:21 PM	Yeah, I ment the Chamber. And I must have missed that the middle was sunk by the backlash. What can I say, I get an idea, I just go with it. Cleaning up the little details is what you do after you decide you like it, now when you're coming up with it :P But the mist can still be in the broken middle anyway. If it was destroyed in the backlash, its likely because thats where the attempt was centered, which likely means thats where the best facilities for the attempt were location, which could also mean that it was the center of the Giant civilization. Would explain why they were so horribly crippled by the blow. Everything else would have radiated out from there, meaning its still a good location to center the blast on.
Dex The King 01-10-05, 04:55 PM	About the sunken parts of Xen'drik, this is how I see it: Say the magical backlash only sunk parts of Xen'drik, no mist. It and the other effects (the ECS makes some reference to plagues) cripple their empire enough for the elves to rebel, and for the rebellion to be a serious threat. Even though, some of the giants' most powerful magicians would consider a little water to be just a minor setback, and begin working on more of the epic scale "Dragon" magic from the original location. This is when the dragons intervene, and use their own "Dragon" magic; stopping the Xen'drik giants' round two and creating the mist. Peter: In the timeline in Chapter 7 of the ECS, it clearly says that the dragons were the first to teach the giants arcane magic. Edyminion: I'm making a distinction between Arcane magic and Dragon magic. Or, at least that the Dragon magic is a set of high level arcane/divine spells that only they know. They taught magic to the Giants, who then took it to the next step and started replicating things they shouldn't have been replicating. Perhaps Dragon magic is actually Epic level magic, for instance.I take it a step further: The dragons did teach the giants their style of magic, the style innate in their blood, that of the sorcerer. But that's not what the dragons forbid the use of. What they won't tolerate is primordial draconic magic, the kind they would never teach to anyone but them (while strong, the Gatekeepers magic is far less powerful), the kind used by Eberron and Siberys to bind Khyber, the strongest of Epic level magic. The giants took sorcery to the apex of its strength; to rival that of the primordial wyrms themselves, and that the dragons cannot allow, for magic of that strength could release Khyber, and maybe even directly reshape or undo the Prophecy, erasing existence as we know it! This is also what House Cannith stumbled on in Xen'drik, the most closely guarded secret of the Patriarch and his closest aides, the secret that doomed poor Cyre. So when I talk of "Dragon" magic, I mean those dragons, Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber. I think it needs a new name, to avoid confusion.
zerotkatama 01-10-05, 07:45 PM	Why not Primal Magic?
debatedeus 01-10-05, 09:01 PM	Additionally, the dragons taught the Giants a magic that was only to be used in times of great peril. The story, as I remember it from Mr. Baker, is that the Giants-with the blessing of the dragons-DID use their incredible "Primal Magic" to knock Dal Quor off of its axis. I thought that the dragons struck the giants down after they tried to use this magic on the elves during the elven revolution. Clearly, magic of this sort was used again, but in a weaker form, when the gatekeepers defeated Xoriat and changed its orbit.