Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 08-02-06, 12:32 PM	Sure, we know she's a lich... we know she's scheming... yadda yadda... :) ...but how much do those outside of her circle know about her current existance? I'm sure her influence is veiled (such as her being behind the Blood)... but do people even know she's still "alive" (as a lich) and in hiding?
DragonWatcher 08-02-06, 12:35 PM	Nope... if the dragons of Argonessen or the Elves of Aerenal knew that she was still around, both factions would likely be tearing Khorvaire apart looking for her.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 08-02-06, 12:37 PM	Nope, no one knows she 'alive' save for the few at the top of the Blood of Vol and Emerald Claw. As far as the dragons and elves are concerned, she was killed along with the rest of her line thousands of years ago (IIRC, one elf even claimed to have killed her). Erandis has never presented herself as head of the church to the people of Khorvaire, so they no nothing about her, either.
Pallin Rahl 08-02-06, 12:55 PM	Cool. That's the impression I basically got as well... but wanted to make sure. :)
Lujayne34 08-02-06, 01:23 PM	Okay so the elves of Aerenal and the Dragons of Argonessen believe that Erandis is dead and gone but........ why arent they disturbed enough about the name of this religion "The Blood of Vol" to go to war again? Seems to me they would be rather violently opposed to it. The name of Vol means something to them unlike the vast majority of the "unwashed" masses.
Darakhoranon 08-02-06, 01:57 PM	Maybe because they have "better things to do"? Trying to decipher the Prophecy or whatever. And as ieattrollsforbreakfast said, they think Erandis is dead. Let's suppose they did wonder about the name - even if someone (or something...) they'd take seriously was behind it (as far as they know) - who in his right mind would tip them off with a name like that? So either they don't care about it or they don't take the whole thing seriously.
DragonWatcher 08-02-06, 03:22 PM	Besides that, the Blood of Vol has existed since long before Erandis came to be. In fact, by the time the line of Vol was wiped out, the religious practices of the Blood of Vol had already been transported to Khorvaire, where thousands had begun to practice this faith. The name does not imply that Erandis started the religion, or has anything to do with it. It doesn't even have anything to do with the Mark of Death or the line of Vol... it simply holds the name, the Blood of Vol, because it was the line of Vol that originally asserted that blood is life, and they are the ones that started to look for a way to gain immortality through their practices. There's no reason for the elves or the dragons to care about a religion that is practiced in some far off land, by a largely peaceful population that are doing nothing wrong. Their lack of knowledge about Erandis pulling the strings behind the Emerald Claw (don't forget that it's the Emerald Claw that are the extremeists that follow Erandis... not the everyday practitioner of the BoV), is precisely the thing that is keeping the elves and dragons from even caring.
Psionycx 08-02-06, 04:00 PM	The doctrine of the Blood of Vol is a conglomeration of elements from the elven religions, the Sovereign Host and the creation myths of the world. To the elves, it probably looks like someone (probably humans, since most adherents of the Blood of Vol are human) got a hold of some lost lore of the ancient House Vol and the Undying Court and built a mystery cult around it. So to them it doesn't show any obvious direct connection to House Vol. Certainly the Blood of Vol doesn't speak much about House Vol and Eradnis is not presented as the leader/deity of the faith to the majority of the laity. Only a handful even know she exists. The average follower of the Blood of Vol practices ancestor worship and believes that death is something to be fought, ideally via undeath. They don't know about Eradnis d'Vol at all and probably don't know much, if anything, about the history of House Vol.
DragonWatcher 08-02-06, 04:24 PM	The average follower of the Blood of Vol practices ancestor worship and believes that death is something to be fought, ideally via undeath. They don't know about Eradnis d'Vol at all and probably don't know much, if anything, about the history of House Vol. Actually, Keith has said on several occasions that the Blood of Vol seeks true immortality, not undeath. Undeath is simply the closest they have been able to come to immortal so far, so it's something that they settle for until they are able to unravel the secrets of true immortality. This is something that I am really hoping that they discuss in more detail in the (soon to be released) Faiths of Eberron book.
mhacdebhandia 08-02-06, 07:33 PM	To the elves, it probably looks like someone (probably humans, since most adherents of the Blood of Vol are human) got a hold of some lost lore of the ancient House Vol and the Undying Court and built a mystery cult around it. So to them it doesn't show any obvious direct connection to House Vol. Keith Baker has mentioned that when the elves of Aerenal and the dragons of Argonessen united to destroy House Vol, it was only the blood members of the house itself that were wiped out; their allies and sympathisers, including those members of other families which adhered to the ancient Blood of Vol teachings brought over from Xen'drik, were simply exiled to Khorvaire. Many of these elves settled in Karrnath, which is why it has always been a center for the faith. Today, the fact that the majority of the faithful are human is simply a consequence of the fact that the elves passed their traditions on to their more fecund human neighbours. ;) Why Karrnath? Consider that Erandis d'Vol resides in an isolated island in the extreme north of the Lhazaar Principalities, and that Karrnath is the closest of the Five Nations to that area. Those members of the elven exiles who knew of Erandis's survival - those intimates who might, if they survive as undead, rank high in the Order of the Emerald Claw today - may have argued for settling down on the other side of the continent from Aerenal for this reason.
Kreistor1 08-03-06, 11:32 AM	I don't agree that the elves and dragons would take off after Erandis if they knew about her. 1) She's not a dragon or an elf anymore. She's dead. 2) She can't give birth. She's dead. So she can't create a new line of half-dragon elves. 3) Her Mark isn't operational. No worries about a dragon with a Dragonmark there. I don't see any reason for it, with Erandis in her Lich state. SHe's powerful and dangerous, but she's not an abomination anymore. She's just dead and irrelevant.
(Psi)SeveredHead 08-03-06, 11:45 AM	I don't agree that the elves and dragons would take off after Erandis if they knew about her. 1) She's not a dragon or an elf anymore. She's dead. 2) She can't give birth. She's dead. So she can't create a new line of half-dragon elves. 3) Her Mark isn't operational. No worries about a dragon with a Dragonmark there. I don't see any reason for it, with Erandis in her Lich state. SHe's powerful and dangerous, but she's not an abomination anymore. She's just dead and irrelevant. For all they know (since they can't metagame), she might come back to life. After all, she is doing a lot of research into eternal life. If there's anyone likely to discover a way to do it, it's her. (And, of course, once she's alive, some poor elf is going to get dragged in to see her.) Furthermore, how would they know the mark isn't operational? There aren't many dragonmarked liches to test on. There might not even be any other than Erandis d'Vol herself. Oh yeah, and she's evil, and the Undying Court would be offended by her existence (those that don't already know). A few elves do know she survived, like the head of the Deathguard, but it's being kept secret. I think if they knew where she was, she'd quickly be attacked. The elves could just pass a message to Argonessen...
Wolfen Fenrison 08-03-06, 11:57 AM	This is just a prototype, wha cha y'all think? Name: The Lich Queen Vol (Lich [Elf, Half Dragon {green}], Wizard [Necromancer] 16) Cr: 20 Type: Undead (Augmented Dragon [augmented humanoid (elf)]) HD: 16d12+3 Hp: 99 Init: +3 Spd: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: 25 (armor +3, natural armor +7, dexterity +3, deflection +2) Touch: 15 Flat-Footed: 22 BAB: +8/+3 Grap: +12 Atk: Claw +12 (1d4+4+negative energy + paralysis, slashing, x2) Bite +12 (1d6+2+negative energy + paralysis, piercing, x2), +1 Longsword +13 (1d8+7, slashing, 19-20/x2), Masterwork Composite Longbow +11 (1d8+4, piercing, x3, 110 ft.) Full Atk: +1 Longsword +13 (1d8+4, slashing, 19-20/x2) and Claw +7 (1d4+2+negative energy + paralysis, slashing, x2) or Masterwork Composite Longbow +11/+6 (1d8+4, piercing, x3, 110 ft.) AL: NE Saves: Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +12 AP: 6 Str: 18 (+4) Dex: 14 (+2), 16 (+3) with Gloves Con: - Int: 23 (+6), 27 (+8) with Headband Wis: 14 (+2) Cha: 12 (+1) Skills: Concentration +15 (+19 to cast defensively), Decipher Script +23, Hide +18, Knowledge (Arcana) +23, Listen +4, Move Silently +18, Search +20, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +23, Spot +20 Feats: Greater Mark of Death (no longer active), Least Mark of Death (no longer active), Lesser Mark of Death (no longer active), Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword, Rapier, Longbow, Shortbow), Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Spell Penetration, Toughness Special Attacks: Breath weapon 1/day (30 ft. cone of corrosive (acid) gas 6d8, Ref DC 10 for half damage); Fear aura (Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-foot radius that look at the lich must succeed on a Will DC 19 or be affected as though by a fear spell from a sorcerer of the lich’s level. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same lich’s aura for 24 hours); Paralyzing Touch (Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude DC 19 or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim, the effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 20 Spot check or a DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive); Negative energy damage (1d8+5 added to touch attack or natural attack, Will DC 19 for half damage); Spells Special Qualities: Low-light vision; Darkvision 60ft.; Immunity to magic sleep effects, paralysis, acid, cold, electricity, polymorph, mind-effecting effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects; Damage Reduction 15/Bludgeoning and magic; An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it; Turn resistance +4; Lich’s Phylactery (An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death. The form of the phylactery is a tiny Khyber dragonshard containing series arcane marks which magical phrases have been transcribed. The shard is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 10, and a break DC of 30.); Specialist Wizard (Necromancy [conjuration and evocation are prohibited]), Summon Familiar (Vol has chosen not to summon a familiar); Languages (Common, Elven, Draconic, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Sylvan, Undercommon) Possessions: Amulet of Natural Armor (+2), Bracers of Armor (+3), Ring of Protection (+2), Headband of Intellect (+4), Gloves of Dexterity (+2), +1 Longsword, Masterwork Composite Longbow (+4), Boccob’s Blessed Book, 16,500 Gold Pieces “You an emaciated creature that combines reptilian and elven features, she wears robes that share symbols of the Blood of Vol as well as the necromantic traditions practiced by the elves of Aerenal” Combat: Vol’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for overcoming damage reduction. Against weak enemies she uses her breath weapon and natural attacks, against strong foes she relies on her spells minions and if pressed into combat uses full attacks till she can retreat. Wizard Spells Prepared (4/6/6/6/6/5/4/4/3; Save DC 18 + spell level, 19 + spell level for necromancy spells): 0- 2 Detect Magic, 2 Read Magic, Touch of Fatigue; 1- 2 Chill Touch, Detect Dragonmark (MoE), Expeditious Retreat, 3 Ray of Enfeeblement; 2- 2 Command Undead, Dimensional Leap (MoE), Mirror Image, 3 Spectral Hand; 3- Arcane Sight, Dispel Magic, Displacement, 2 Halt Undead, 2 Vampiric Touch; 4- 2 Animate Dead, 2 Bestow Curse, 2 Enervation, Phantasmal Killer; 5- 2 Dominate Person, 2 Hold Monster, Orb of Dancing Death (MoE), Overland Flight; 6- Greater Dispel Magic, 2Circle of Death, Create Undead, Shadow Walk; 7- Greater Arcane Sight, Control Undead, 2Finger of Death, Ethereal Jaunt; 8- Create Greater Undead, 2 Horrid Wilting, Scree
DarkWarriorKarg 08-03-06, 01:41 PM	I was toying with a True Necromancer (Libris Mortis, 14 level version). Never completed it. 1) Built as a 20th level (3 wiz/3 cleric/14 true Necromancer 2) Base CL 16 as wizard and cleric (still keeps Wish and Miracle out of her hands) 3) Practiced Spellcaster feat 4) CR was 24
Kreistor1 08-03-06, 02:48 PM	For all they know (since they can't metagame), she might come back to life. After all, she is doing a lot of research into eternal life. If there's anyone likely to discover a way to do it, it's her. (And, of course, once she's alive, some poor elf is going to get dragged in to see her.) That she is investigating eternal life isn't necessarily the same as being "outed" as existing. And that's not necessarily something the elves would find abhorrent, given the UNdying are the same sort of thing. Most would consider restoring a Lich to life a fool's errand, especially Erandis herself. Knowing a living Erandis would definitely bring the elves and dragons coming, being a Lich is a defence. Furthermore, how would they know the mark isn't operational? There aren't many dragonmarked liches to test on. There might not even be any other than Erandis d'Vol herself. Was it the Mark the elves had a problem with? I don't recall one way or the other (and don't have the books). Besides, it's not clear that the elves would even know she had a Mark in the first place. Oh yeah, and she's evil, and the Undying Court would be offended by her existence (those that don't already know). "Offended by" does not mean "going to go after". There's no specific reason to go after an Erandis lich more than any other lich. Are the elves of Aerenal mounting large scale expeditions across Khorvaire to deal with the other Liches people out? A few elves do know she survived, like the head of the Deathguard, but it's being kept secret. I think if they knew where she was, she'd quickly be attacked. The elves could just pass a message to Argonessen... Dragons and elves are enemies again. I can't see the arrogant elves passing on such info to the dragons so that the dragons get the honor of dealing with the situation.
(Psi)SeveredHead 08-03-06, 03:09 PM	That she is investigating eternal life isn't necessarily the same as being "outed" as existing. True. However, a few elves do know she exists. And that's not necessarily something the elves would find abhorrent, given the UNdying are the same sort of thing. The Undying Court has special anti-undead abilities. I think they do find undeath abhorrent. Most would consider restoring a Lich to life a fool's errand, especially Erandis herself. Isn't she trying to gain immortality? Kind of pointless if you're already undead. I think being a lich gives you a pretty bad "quality of life" issue. I don't think she intended to be a lich, either, rather her family forced it on her so she could (somehow) survive the attack on House Vol. Knowing a living Erandis would definitely bring the elves and dragons coming, being a Lich is a defence. True, unless she somehow manages to change the conditions. Seeing how coming back to life is nearly impossible for her and that she might get smacked down the moment she does, one wonders if she'll ever pull it off. But you never know. Was it the Mark the elves had a problem with? She's a half-dragon with a dragonmark! No other dragon ever bore a dragonmark. But it may have been the alliance between her house and a green dragon, rather than the dragonmark, which so offended the dragons. The dragons haven't tried to slay the small number of half-dragons in the Shadow Marches, suggesting to me they either pay no attention to that area, or it's the dragonmark. I don't recall one way or the other (and don't have the books). Besides, it's not clear that the elves would even know she had a Mark in the first place. She was seen before she escaped. Her dragonmark may have been visible. They may have feared (but been unsure of) her having a dragonmark because she was a member of a dragonmarked house. If she went around with the name d'Vol, that would suggest other elves knew she had a dragonmark. Then again, she may have been kept mostly secret, since she was a half-dragon. (I get the impression, though I could be wrong, that dragonmarked characters rarely hid their dragonmarks.) "Offended by" does not mean "going to go after". There's no specific reason to go after an Erandis lich more than any other lich. Are the elves of Aerenal mounting large scale expeditions across Khorvaire to deal with the other Liches people out? There's other reasons on top of that, like her carrying a dragonmark and being a half-dragon, and also belonging to a family that Aerenal already tried to wipe out. And can you name another Eberron lich? I sure can't. Dragons and elves are enemies again. I can't see the arrogant elves passing on such info to the dragons so that the dragons get the honor of dealing with the situation. The fighting between the elves and dragons has never been well explained, but I can hardly believe all or even most dragons have a problem with the elves. The wars between Aerenal and Argonessen generally involve relatively small numbers of dragons suddenly attacking Aerenal. It's more of a war betwen Aerenal and specific dragons, which we already know are not homogenous politically.
Mesraic 08-04-06, 09:06 PM	So heres an interesting thought. Erandis Is old enough to have remeberd dragons using epic magics to destroy her house. And shes been a necromancer lich for several thousand years, studying immortality. Maybe she has decided that if she wants to bring back her house and the mark of death she could use epic level magic (which she has been working towards) to create new living family members, clones of herself as a child, because before she took to lichdom she cut off some hair and has been preserving it for when she's ready to recreate herself or others of her bloodline that are actually alive. And being close to that area maybe add taht in as a plothook for when your PCs eventually get higher level. Thought?
The Dreaming Duck 08-05-06, 02:39 AM	And that's not necessarily something the elves would find abhorrent, given the UNdying are the same sort of thing. I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that the Undying/Aereni don't care about undeath, or about the idea that an undead creature might try to return to life? In the info about the Deathguard, we've been told: The Undying Court teaches that negative undead are conduits to Mabar and that merely by existing, these creatures slowly drain away the life-force of Eberron itself. So we know the Undying Court (majority religion of Aerenal) thinks undead are abominations, however, given that, I think they WOULD support the idea of an undead creature returning to life (though not Erandis, because...) Was it the Mark the elves had a problem with? I don't recall one way or the other (and don't have the books). Besides, it's not clear that the elves would even know she had a Mark in the first place. Well, what's been said is: "The Sibling Kings declared that the Blood of Vol was to be completely destroyed, since even a drop could destroy all living things..." As such, it sounds like it's not the mark itself, but rather the potential of the bloodline to manifest the mark - even if Erandis didn't have it, she COULD, and that's enough. Every last member of the line of Vol was killed. Plus, it sounds like the mingling of dragon and elf blood magnfied the issue. The mark was around for some time and all was OK - it was when they started producing half-dragons that elves and dragons joined and wiped out the line to the last heir. Are the elves of Aerenal mounting large scale expeditions across Khorvaire to deal with the other Liches people out? Large scale expeditions, no. But the Deathguard are a commando force trained to strike against undead across the world... "For the most part, the Aereni prefer to avoid contact with the outside world, but the war against undead is a danger that bypasses all borders." So yes, I think they MIGHT move against other liches people out. Beyond that, "a single drop could destroy all living things" sounds like reason enough to make an extra effort for Erandis.
Kemmotar_veon 08-07-06, 07:29 PM	So heres an interesting thought. Erandis Is old enough to have remeberd dragons using epic magics to destroy her house. And shes been a necromancer lich for several thousand years, studying immortality. Maybe she has decided that if she wants to bring back her house and the mark of death she could use epic level magic (which she has been working towards) to create new living family members, clones of herself as a child, because before she took to lichdom she cut off some hair and has been preserving it for when she's ready to recreate herself or others of her bloodline that are actually alive. And being close to that area maybe add taht in as a plothook for when your PCs eventually get higher level. Thought? In this momment my characters are trying to avoid something like this... In my game Erandis used epic level magic to traspass her blood to another elf... she was being controled and after a nice night with one of the players she got pregnated... and now they are trying to stop Erandis to come back to life and became inmortal ussing the powers of the mark in the girl born from said mother... It has been quite interesting until now...
Edymnion 08-07-06, 08:00 PM	Sure, we know she's a lich...Dracolich ;)