Excoriates [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Excoriates [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gurv
09-02-07, 07:46 AM I have a player whose character is the unmarked son of an excoriate (from House Orien). Since his father was such an outcast, he never saw much of the better life. But now that he is grown and his father deceased, he is going to come across evidence that his sire was innocent of the crime he was cast out for. The PC will want to clear his father's name, prove to the House that they were wrong, and regain some of what would have been his inheritance had this misunderstanding never occurred.

My question is this: what kind of crime or dishonorable behavior is likely to lead to becoming an excoriate? This is one of the harshest punishments the Houses give, so the crime should be severe enough to warrant it. But if the crime is so terrible, wouldn't it be more fitting to deal with the perpetrator with more conventional methods (imprisonment or death)?

I'm sure there are plenty of mid-range offenses that would result in excoriation, but I just can't think of any.

Any ideas?
Charles Phipps
09-02-07, 08:09 AM My question is this: what kind of crime or dishonorable behavior is likely to lead to becoming an excoriate? This is one of the harshest punishments the Houses give, so the crime should be severe enough to warrant it. But if the crime is so terrible, wouldn't it be more fitting to deal with the perpetrator with more conventional methods (imprisonment or death)?

An important part of the Dragonmarked Houses is the fact that they're intrigue ridden Hellholes. They're very much like the Noble Houses of the Dune series in the fact that they're all about providing services for the Kingdoms as opposed to ruling over Land but otherwise are nobility in most respects (at least the Dragonmarked Heirs). Effectively, Exorciation is the punishment that they reserve for people who are the wrong side of a power struggle as much as anything else.

Let's look at some of the Novels examples of exorciation.

Lei: Before we discovered she was a Cylon, Lei just found herself exorciated without warning. In all likelihood, Lei was punished for what her parents did rather than anything she did. I'm surprised that she didn't attempt to join one of Merrix D'Cannith's political rivals in Karrnath or Aundair since one has to question whether she was driven from the entire household.

Maybe your character was peripherially involved in something truly terrible against the House....but only dimly. Was he a man bringing letters from the House's heads wife to her lover ala The Three Musketeers? Was their a plot to overthrow the House's head.....that you were the lover of one of the participants of?

Legacy of Wolves: In this case, the exoriated member murdered a fellow member of the House. HOWEVER, his Daddy was the head of the Conclave. Not wanting to see his son hung, he had the murder brushed over and settled for a letter charge (Getting some prize livestock killed that was an exiling offense by itself).

So, you can get exiled for doing nothing at all or you can do something utterly HEINOUS but can get your sentence commuted because you have the right connections. Justice is an oxymoron in the Dragonmarked Houses. Since they handle punishments, basically you have the benefit (and curse) of being judged by your family as opposed to an impartial panel.

Some good Exorciating offenses I'd recommend

Spying on the House for another Nation/Dragonmark House/Secret Society
Embezzlement (they HATE when they lose money)
Costing the House a huge amount of money (accidentally setting fire to a laboratory filled with Cannith merchandise, insulting a patron and losing a lucrative contract)
Killing another member of the House with provocation (an unsanctioned duel, getting into a fight that turned lethal)
Screwing up something that the House would benefit from (failing a mission for the House Head that was particularly important in a particularly horrendous way)
Siring an Abberant Dragonmark (that will get you kicked out faster than you can say Dragonmark)
Breaking the House's Neutrality somehow
Toloran
09-02-07, 02:27 PM Some good Exorciating offenses I'd recommend

Spying on the House for another Nation/Dragonmark House/Secret Society
Embezzlement (they HATE when they lose money)
Costing the House a huge amount of money (accidentally setting fire to a laboratory filled with Cannith merchandise, insulting a patron and losing a lucrative contract)
Killing another member of the House with provocation (an unsanctioned duel, getting into a fight that turned lethal)
Screwing up something that the House would benefit from (failing a mission for the House Head that was particularly important in a particularly horrendous way)
Siring an Abberant Dragonmark (that will get you kicked out faster than you can say Dragonmark)
Breaking the House's Neutrality somehow

Also to add to this list:

- Marrying without the houses approval (some houses are more picky about this then others, especially with the very talented and marked members).
- Committing any crime/act that although doesn't directly affect the house, it does embarrass or hurt the houses reputation (being a drug dealer is a good example).
- Any sort of an intimate relationship with a member of a different house (even if you don't sire a child with a dragonmark of any kind).

Another thing you should consider: Even if you DO find evidence of your fathers innocence, that doesn't mean you can repair his name. Often you'll need to build up contacts in the house just to get your case heard.
TiwazTyrsfist
09-02-07, 06:21 PM Also, doing things that are directly counter to the philosophy of the house.

For example, a d'Dennith swearing fealty to a particular nation or cause and fighting for them out of loyalty rather than for money as a mercenary.

A Mark of Shadows heir poisoning someone runs no risk, but a house Jorasco healer doing so is running for excoriation.

Renegade Mastermakers (PrC from Magic of Ebberon) from Cannith generally are right on the edge of being kicked out, because they've taken things TOO FAR...

We decided a while back in another thread that attempting to create Mage-Bred Vermin is the fast track to getting excoriated as a Vandaris (SP?).
Edymnion
09-02-07, 06:46 PM My question is this: what kind of crime or dishonorable behavior is likely to lead to becoming an excoriate? This is one of the harshest punishments the Houses give, so the crime should be severe enough to warrant it. But if the crime is so terrible, wouldn't it be more fitting to deal with the perpetrator with more conventional methods (imprisonment or death)?

I'm sure there are plenty of mid-range offenses that would result in excoriation, but I just can't think of any.

Any ideas?Orien *almost* has a blood fued going on with Lyrander, because Lyrander is horning in on Orien's transportation business with their airships.

A good "daddy got excoriated, but he didn't do it" IMO would be to have daddy being accused of selling house secrets to the Lyranders. Specs for a prototype lightning rail, or plans for which areas Orion would be expanding into and when, details of important clients, that sort of thing. House Orien thinks he sold them out, and excoriates him. 20 years later, Junior finds evidence that daddy was set up by the real house traitor, who is still living the lap of luxury in the House.

If you're a Star Trek fan, think Worf and Duras.
For those that don't do Star Trek, Worf is a klingon who's father got blamed for betraying a klingon outpost to the romulans. Worf starts investigating, and finds out that his father was innocent, and it was actually the father of one of the guys on the high council that did it. But, that guy has a strong family with many loyalties, so outright confronting him would lead to civil war, so Worf accepts what is basically excoriation in order to hold the empire together.

You could do the same thing. Have the real traitor be a very high ranking Orien official, who you can't just point out and accuse openly.
Gurv
09-04-07, 05:55 AM You could do the same thing. Have the real traitor be a very high ranking Orien official, who you can't just point out and accuse openly.
Exactly my plan, of course.

A high-ranking Orien heir (the BBEG) framed the father of this PC, because he had something the BBEG needed for whatever diabolical reason. Cast out of the house, the heir took his family and settled down with next to nothing. Growing up outside the dragonmarked circles, the PC (who has yet to manifest a mark) joined the clergy of the Host, fought in the war, then "retired" to life as a traveling cleric-hospitalitar.

Enter the second PC: an Orien marked sorceress trying to prove her worth. Competition is fierce amongst her cousins, all of whom seek positions of influence in the House. She alone has kept in touch with the other PC, a childhood friend, despite the risks involved in communication with excoriates. She has learned that that her friend's father was framed (although not yet by whom, or why), and that when he left, he refused to reveal the location of a House treasure that was in his possession. All she knows is that Orien spies watched him until the day of his death, but he never lead them to it.

Hopefully, the two players will come together and quickly decide to recover this treasure and prove the old man's innocence. The cleric's father will have left clues, of course; these will lead them on an elaborate treasure hunt designed to foil those who framed him. Needless to say, when the BBEG realizes that they are seeking it, they will be plagued by his henchmen. The sorceress stands to win a place of influence by recovering this treasure (if the BBEG doesn't get it first), while the cleric clears his father's name.
naturax
09-04-07, 01:01 PM Gurv, that's an awesome adventure. I'm likely going to steal it and run a version of it one day.
bad_phil
09-04-07, 02:01 PM Well, a good reason for being an excoriate is to have a love relatioship with other house members, races or abberant heirs. The player could eventually discover that he's an Orien/Cannith offspring. Or an Orien/Lyrandar....whatever. This could be a good reason the house would have banished his father. Now the player could hide the truth or seek revenge against Orien, or Lyrandar if they knew. That could be deep character developpement.
Nived
09-04-07, 08:20 PM For House O I imagine that all you'd have to do is lose a package...

Provided it was a VERY important package.

The fun of this concept is the mystery of what was in the package.
Gurv
09-04-07, 08:54 PM Gurv, that's an awesome adventure. I'm likely going to steal it and run a version of it one day.

It still needs fleshing out.

I think I'm going to go with the "framed as a spy" idea. The BBEG I have in mind is going to an ex-assassin who used his dragonmark powers to get close to his targets and escape. I think House Orien would frown on this use of the dragonmark, since it would make people fear them if such abuse was known. So the BBEG has a secret that he can't let be known: he gained his high station by spying and murdering his way up the ladder.

The father of the cleric PC may have known about the BBEG's evil methods. In fact, the BBEG might have tried to kill him to get the yet-undecided "treasure" that was in his possession. Whatever it was, the BBEG wanted it, but flubbed the assassination-and-theft attempt. But before the BBEG could be exposed by his would-be victim, he planted evidence of espionage to discredit him. Naturally, the espionage itself was completely real, and House Lyrandar might even have admitted to working with an Orien spy; only the blame needs to be shifted.

So the excoriate leaves with his family, knowing that no one will listen to him, and that if he even tries to prove himself innocent, the BBEG will wipe him and his family off the map. But he hopes that someday he will have the chance, and leaves well-protected methods to recover the evidence and the house "treasure". He dies before he has that chance. But when he does die, the BBEG lowers his guard somewhat. The second PC learns the truth (although she has no evidence) and gets back in touch with the excoriate's son. If she can find the lost treasure, her influence will skyrocket. And an excoriate's honor might be redeemed.
tlarham
09-05-07, 06:39 PM In my game, a player has become an excoriate because he failed to provide inside information to the House when it was requested.

Spoiler for RHoD and my Party -- STAY OUT!

Running RHoD in New Cyre with The Hobs as a Rogue tribe being deceived by LoD into raising a Dragon Warrior from the Age of Demons from the pit to Khyber in the Seven Caves (IME The seven caves house the temple of Tiamat because they is where she fought an epic war against a Rakshasa) They hope to pit the DM houses against the Dragons (b/c of the Prophecy) in the long run...so the deception works to their advantage for the moment.

The LoD are also trying to tie the DM houses into the whole debacle -- so they manuevered house Philarin into selling information on the defenses of New Cyre to a LoD Agent (for the Hobs) -- for which they were going to be paid a massive amount of money.

When the PC's (An unmarked Phil. Elf) was hit-up by his uncle for the information about the New Cyran defense strategies, he refused. The House was embarrassed, and the agent made it clear that there would be repercussions of the monetary kind for the House. Now he is an excoriate...and I get to plan their revenge.

-- T.
Thramzorean
09-07-07, 08:56 AM I have a character be a voluntary excoriate - an elf who when becoming a favoured soul of the Silver Flame decided to excoriate herself from the d'Phaelion line to cut all lines between herself and her old associations so she could be truly devoted to the Silver Flame...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gurv 09-02-07, 07:46 AM	I have a player whose character is the unmarked son of an excoriate (from House Orien). Since his father was such an outcast, he never saw much of the better life. But now that he is grown and his father deceased, he is going to come across evidence that his sire was innocent of the crime he was cast out for. The PC will want to clear his father's name, prove to the House that they were wrong, and regain some of what would have been his inheritance had this misunderstanding never occurred. My question is this: what kind of crime or dishonorable behavior is likely to lead to becoming an excoriate? This is one of the harshest punishments the Houses give, so the crime should be severe enough to warrant it. But if the crime is so terrible, wouldn't it be more fitting to deal with the perpetrator with more conventional methods (imprisonment or death)? I'm sure there are plenty of mid-range offenses that would result in excoriation, but I just can't think of any. Any ideas?
Charles Phipps 09-02-07, 08:09 AM	My question is this: what kind of crime or dishonorable behavior is likely to lead to becoming an excoriate? This is one of the harshest punishments the Houses give, so the crime should be severe enough to warrant it. But if the crime is so terrible, wouldn't it be more fitting to deal with the perpetrator with more conventional methods (imprisonment or death)? An important part of the Dragonmarked Houses is the fact that they're intrigue ridden Hellholes. They're very much like the Noble Houses of the Dune series in the fact that they're all about providing services for the Kingdoms as opposed to ruling over Land but otherwise are nobility in most respects (at least the Dragonmarked Heirs). Effectively, Exorciation is the punishment that they reserve for people who are the wrong side of a power struggle as much as anything else. Let's look at some of the Novels examples of exorciation. Lei: Before we discovered she was a Cylon, Lei just found herself exorciated without warning. In all likelihood, Lei was punished for what her parents did rather than anything she did. I'm surprised that she didn't attempt to join one of Merrix D'Cannith's political rivals in Karrnath or Aundair since one has to question whether she was driven from the entire household. Maybe your character was peripherially involved in something truly terrible against the House....but only dimly. Was he a man bringing letters from the House's heads wife to her lover ala The Three Musketeers? Was their a plot to overthrow the House's head.....that you were the lover of one of the participants of? Legacy of Wolves: In this case, the exoriated member murdered a fellow member of the House. HOWEVER, his Daddy was the head of the Conclave. Not wanting to see his son hung, he had the murder brushed over and settled for a letter charge (Getting some prize livestock killed that was an exiling offense by itself). So, you can get exiled for doing nothing at all or you can do something utterly HEINOUS but can get your sentence commuted because you have the right connections. Justice is an oxymoron in the Dragonmarked Houses. Since they handle punishments, basically you have the benefit (and curse) of being judged by your family as opposed to an impartial panel. Some good Exorciating offenses I'd recommend Spying on the House for another Nation/Dragonmark House/Secret Society Embezzlement (they HATE when they lose money) Costing the House a huge amount of money (accidentally setting fire to a laboratory filled with Cannith merchandise, insulting a patron and losing a lucrative contract) Killing another member of the House with provocation (an unsanctioned duel, getting into a fight that turned lethal) Screwing up something that the House would benefit from (failing a mission for the House Head that was particularly important in a particularly horrendous way) Siring an Abberant Dragonmark (that will get you kicked out faster than you can say Dragonmark) Breaking the House's Neutrality somehow
Toloran 09-02-07, 02:27 PM	Some good Exorciating offenses I'd recommend Spying on the House for another Nation/Dragonmark House/Secret Society Embezzlement (they HATE when they lose money) Costing the House a huge amount of money (accidentally setting fire to a laboratory filled with Cannith merchandise, insulting a patron and losing a lucrative contract) Killing another member of the House with provocation (an unsanctioned duel, getting into a fight that turned lethal) Screwing up something that the House would benefit from (failing a mission for the House Head that was particularly important in a particularly horrendous way) Siring an Abberant Dragonmark (that will get you kicked out faster than you can say Dragonmark) Breaking the House's Neutrality somehow Also to add to this list: - Marrying without the houses approval (some houses are more picky about this then others, especially with the very talented and marked members). - Committing any crime/act that although doesn't directly affect the house, it does embarrass or hurt the houses reputation (being a drug dealer is a good example). - Any sort of an intimate relationship with a member of a different house (even if you don't sire a child with a dragonmark of any kind). Another thing you should consider: Even if you DO find evidence of your fathers innocence, that doesn't mean you can repair his name. Often you'll need to build up contacts in the house just to get your case heard.
TiwazTyrsfist 09-02-07, 06:21 PM	Also, doing things that are directly counter to the philosophy of the house. For example, a d'Dennith swearing fealty to a particular nation or cause and fighting for them out of loyalty rather than for money as a mercenary. A Mark of Shadows heir poisoning someone runs no risk, but a house Jorasco healer doing so is running for excoriation. Renegade Mastermakers (PrC from Magic of Ebberon) from Cannith generally are right on the edge of being kicked out, because they've taken things TOO FAR... We decided a while back in another thread that attempting to create Mage-Bred Vermin is the fast track to getting excoriated as a Vandaris (SP?).
Edymnion 09-02-07, 06:46 PM	My question is this: what kind of crime or dishonorable behavior is likely to lead to becoming an excoriate? This is one of the harshest punishments the Houses give, so the crime should be severe enough to warrant it. But if the crime is so terrible, wouldn't it be more fitting to deal with the perpetrator with more conventional methods (imprisonment or death)? I'm sure there are plenty of mid-range offenses that would result in excoriation, but I just can't think of any. Any ideas?Orien almost has a blood fued going on with Lyrander, because Lyrander is horning in on Orien's transportation business with their airships. A good "daddy got excoriated, but he didn't do it" IMO would be to have daddy being accused of selling house secrets to the Lyranders. Specs for a prototype lightning rail, or plans for which areas Orion would be expanding into and when, details of important clients, that sort of thing. House Orien thinks he sold them out, and excoriates him. 20 years later, Junior finds evidence that daddy was set up by the real house traitor, who is still living the lap of luxury in the House. If you're a Star Trek fan, think Worf and Duras. For those that don't do Star Trek, Worf is a klingon who's father got blamed for betraying a klingon outpost to the romulans. Worf starts investigating, and finds out that his father was innocent, and it was actually the father of one of the guys on the high council that did it. But, that guy has a strong family with many loyalties, so outright confronting him would lead to civil war, so Worf accepts what is basically excoriation in order to hold the empire together. You could do the same thing. Have the real traitor be a very high ranking Orien official, who you can't just point out and accuse openly.
Gurv 09-04-07, 05:55 AM	You could do the same thing. Have the real traitor be a very high ranking Orien official, who you can't just point out and accuse openly. Exactly my plan, of course. A high-ranking Orien heir (the BBEG) framed the father of this PC, because he had something the BBEG needed for whatever diabolical reason. Cast out of the house, the heir took his family and settled down with next to nothing. Growing up outside the dragonmarked circles, the PC (who has yet to manifest a mark) joined the clergy of the Host, fought in the war, then "retired" to life as a traveling cleric-hospitalitar. Enter the second PC: an Orien marked sorceress trying to prove her worth. Competition is fierce amongst her cousins, all of whom seek positions of influence in the House. She alone has kept in touch with the other PC, a childhood friend, despite the risks involved in communication with excoriates. She has learned that that her friend's father was framed (although not yet by whom, or why), and that when he left, he refused to reveal the location of a House treasure that was in his possession. All she knows is that Orien spies watched him until the day of his death, but he never lead them to it. Hopefully, the two players will come together and quickly decide to recover this treasure and prove the old man's innocence. The cleric's father will have left clues, of course; these will lead them on an elaborate treasure hunt designed to foil those who framed him. Needless to say, when the BBEG realizes that they are seeking it, they will be plagued by his henchmen. The sorceress stands to win a place of influence by recovering this treasure (if the BBEG doesn't get it first), while the cleric clears his father's name.
naturax 09-04-07, 01:01 PM	Gurv, that's an awesome adventure. I'm likely going to steal it and run a version of it one day.
bad_phil 09-04-07, 02:01 PM	Well, a good reason for being an excoriate is to have a love relatioship with other house members, races or abberant heirs. The player could eventually discover that he's an Orien/Cannith offspring. Or an Orien/Lyrandar....whatever. This could be a good reason the house would have banished his father. Now the player could hide the truth or seek revenge against Orien, or Lyrandar if they knew. That could be deep character developpement.
Nived 09-04-07, 08:20 PM	For House O I imagine that all you'd have to do is lose a package... Provided it was a VERY important package. The fun of this concept is the mystery of what was in the package.
Gurv 09-04-07, 08:54 PM	Gurv, that's an awesome adventure. I'm likely going to steal it and run a version of it one day. It still needs fleshing out. I think I'm going to go with the "framed as a spy" idea. The BBEG I have in mind is going to an ex-assassin who used his dragonmark powers to get close to his targets and escape. I think House Orien would frown on this use of the dragonmark, since it would make people fear them if such abuse was known. So the BBEG has a secret that he can't let be known: he gained his high station by spying and murdering his way up the ladder. The father of the cleric PC may have known about the BBEG's evil methods. In fact, the BBEG might have tried to kill him to get the yet-undecided "treasure" that was in his possession. Whatever it was, the BBEG wanted it, but flubbed the assassination-and-theft attempt. But before the BBEG could be exposed by his would-be victim, he planted evidence of espionage to discredit him. Naturally, the espionage itself was completely real, and House Lyrandar might even have admitted to working with an Orien spy; only the blame needs to be shifted. So the excoriate leaves with his family, knowing that no one will listen to him, and that if he even tries to prove himself innocent, the BBEG will wipe him and his family off the map. But he hopes that someday he will have the chance, and leaves well-protected methods to recover the evidence and the house "treasure". He dies before he has that chance. But when he does die, the BBEG lowers his guard somewhat. The second PC learns the truth (although she has no evidence) and gets back in touch with the excoriate's son. If she can find the lost treasure, her influence will skyrocket. And an excoriate's honor might be redeemed.
tlarham 09-05-07, 06:39 PM	In my game, a player has become an excoriate because he failed to provide inside information to the House when it was requested. Spoiler for RHoD and my Party -- STAY OUT! Running RHoD in New Cyre with The Hobs as a Rogue tribe being deceived by LoD into raising a Dragon Warrior from the Age of Demons from the pit to Khyber in the Seven Caves (IME The seven caves house the temple of Tiamat because they is where she fought an epic war against a Rakshasa) They hope to pit the DM houses against the Dragons (b/c of the Prophecy) in the long run...so the deception works to their advantage for the moment. The LoD are also trying to tie the DM houses into the whole debacle -- so they manuevered house Philarin into selling information on the defenses of New Cyre to a LoD Agent (for the Hobs) -- for which they were going to be paid a massive amount of money. When the PC's (An unmarked Phil. Elf) was hit-up by his uncle for the information about the New Cyran defense strategies, he refused. The House was embarrassed, and the agent made it clear that there would be repercussions of the monetary kind for the House. Now he is an excoriate...and I get to plan their revenge. -- T.
Thramzorean 09-07-07, 08:56 AM	I have a character be a voluntary excoriate - an elf who when becoming a favoured soul of the Silver Flame decided to excoriate herself from the d'Phaelion line to cut all lines between herself and her old associations so she could be truly devoted to the Silver Flame...