Eyes of the Lich Queen prob *SPOILERS* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eyes of the Lich Queen prob *SPOILERS* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ugavine
05-13-07, 03:35 PM Hi,

This is a question for anyone who has fully read or completed the adventure - I'm still reading through.

I'm planning on running the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure sometime soon. Although I have only skimmed through the book one thing has brought up questions already.

Dragonmarks. To be honest I've not delved too deeply into Eberrons history & culture yet, although I have read up on the Dragonmarks.

At the start of the adventure the PCs gain Dragonmarks.
The PCs are:
Shifter Rogue
Changeling Cleric
Warforged Barbarian
Warforged Monk

Would they all still get the Dragonmarks, even the Warforged?
Would it spoil the adventure without this 'sub-plot'?

My group has just had great fun over the last few months getting their PCs up to Level 5 ready for this adventure, so creating new PCs is out of the question.

Thanks in advance :cool:
cluelessplanewalker
05-13-07, 03:53 PM All that is detailed on page 10 of Eyes of the Lich Queen. A creature that is not a member of a dragonmarked race gains the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy 1/day) feat.

So, no need for new PCs.
tallric_kruush
05-13-07, 05:48 PM All that is detailed on page 10 of Eyes of the Lich Queen. A creature that is not a member of a dragonmarked race gains the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy 1/day) feat.

So, no need for new PCs.

I don't have the adventure (yet), so I can't speak to the sidebar you mentioned. However, I'd think that applies to PCs like the changeling and shifter. Unless you deviate from Eberron canon (at least as I read it;) ), a warforged can never have a dragonmark. Maybe some alternate perk could be worked into the game to make up for the "breathers" getting 'marks.

On a side note, Ugavine, it's nice to see a party composed entirely of the new "Eberron races". There's always been at least one elf or human in every group I've seen so far. Of course, you did mention these very races are the dragnet that hauled your SW buddies into Eberron in the first place.
Ugavine
05-13-07, 06:11 PM All that is detailed on page 10 of Eyes of the Lich Queen. A creature that is not a member of a dragonmarked race gains the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy 1/day) feat.

So, no need for new PCs.

I'd flicked right past that page :rolleyes:

tallric_kruush, yes the new races of Eberron are great :)

Thanks all.
cluelessplanewalker
05-14-07, 07:25 AM I don't have the adventure (yet), so I can't speak to the sidebar you mentioned. However, I'd think that applies to PCs like the changeling and shifter. Unless you deviate from Eberron canon (at least as I read it;) ), a warforged can never have a dragonmark. Maybe some alternate perk could be worked into the game to make up for the "breathers" getting 'marks.

Actually, warforged are explicitly named as an example for a non-dragonmarked race that does get the Aberrant Dragonmark. I personally think its a nice idea to give the warforged these special marks, because it will increase the "whoa!!"-effect.
Dr. Confoundo
05-15-07, 08:05 PM One thing I found odd about the Aberrent Dragonmarks that the party receives are that they are referenced in the text as being a 'curse', but there's really no downside to having them. If I run this module, I'm going to give them a little bit of a drawback - maybe a distracting itch that causes a -1 to hit, and which gets worse as time goes on. If this gets too annoying, the silver dragon can always whip out some salve or amulets that will allow the PCs to function normally, but which would eventually stop functioning against the curse.
Frederyck
05-16-07, 03:18 AM The curse part is the social stigma associated with aberrant dragonmarks, I think. So it is basically a roleplay-drawback. If an aberrant dragonmark is spotted by a knowledgeable member of a dragonmarked house, you can be sure that the aberran bearing character will be hunted down. Aberrant dragonmarks often arise in the offspring from the union of two dragonmarked parents, which is, if I remember correctly, an offense punishable by death.
cluelessplanewalker
05-16-07, 05:44 AM Also, wasn't it so, that the previous group that got "cursed" (I can't remember the names and don't have the book on me) died sooner or later because of it? I've only skimmed through the second half, so I'm not sure about that.
Dr. Confoundo
05-16-07, 02:15 PM Also, wasn't it so, that the previous group that got "cursed" (I can't remember the names and don't have the book on me) died sooner or later because of it? I've only skimmed through the second half, so I'm not sure about that.
That's what I was talking about... if it's just the social stigma attached to Aberrent Dragonmarks, that doesn't really count as a 'curse', does it? IIRC, the flavor text that the ghostly Sarlonian explorer gives mentions him being the last survivior of the cursed expedition - that implies more than just getting the hairy eyeball from people who are scared of your Aberrent Dragonmark.

Additionally, I thought that having an Aberrent Dragonmark was more or less accepted now - although there was a time when they would be killed on sight, the bearers now might just be discriminated against, with no violence.
jpwyrm
05-18-07, 02:42 PM In fact, every party member of the last Sarlonan expedition to get the marks died, not only those with an aberrant mark (i.e. if a human with the mark of sentinel was there, he also died). The fact is, the curse is supposed to motivate unenthousiastic players to search for a way to cure themselves (like Jheamast did). Mechanicaly speaking, the book doesn't give anything on what happens to PC who dicide to ignore the curse.

Personnaly, if my players ignored the threat, I would find some degenerative and debilitating effects to the marks, eventualy leading them to death. Of course, that's saying they didn't got killed by the Emerald Claw first...
fhilbrandt
05-18-07, 03:09 PM I'm still not sure about the free Dragonmark Feat the PCs acquire during the adventure. I've run a campaign (homebrew setting) where I've given PCs free bonus Feats for encountering an artifact, and I've found it seriously messes with game balence. I would have the marks fade after the adventure, or seriously limit treasure to make up for the Feat.
Recovering_Blackguard
05-18-07, 03:32 PM In fact, every party member of the last Sarlonan expedition to get the marks died, not only those with an aberrant mark (i.e. if a human with the mark of sentinel was there, he also died). The fact is, the curse is supposed to motivate unenthousiastic players to search for a way to cure themselves (like Jheamast did). Mechanicaly speaking, the book doesn't give anything on what happens to PC who dicide to ignore the curse.

Personnaly, if my players ignored the threat, I would find some degenerative and debilitating effects to the marks, eventualy leading them to death. Of course, that's saying they didn't got killed by the Emerald Claw first...

Exactly. This is why they are referred to as a curse. It's also why just cutting this "sub-plot" out would be a bad idea -- it's intended to be the motivator for pushing them through the adventure (i.e., they are trying to figure out how to avoid dying within a year).
Ugavine
05-18-07, 03:40 PM I think I'll certainly put emphasis on the Curse element of the Dragonmark when I run the adventure.
Psymnotica
05-22-07, 04:23 AM Just to throw this out there, a warforged who gained an aberrant mark in my campaign would be a greatly feared being - both by the common populace and by the dragonmarked houses. It would get some serious bonus on Intimidation checks (like +2 or +4) made upon NPC's knowing who it was, but would suffer at Diplomacy checks (-6 or more), and have numerous people unwilling to do business with it or actively trying to do it harm.

I would think that House Cannith would be both intrigued at the proposition that they, as a House, have created life that is a part of the Prophecy, and terrified at its implications for them. The Lord of Blades may also take an interest in the character, using him from a distance as a propaganda tool to rally the other Warforged to his cause, while trying to bring the character into the fold or eliminating him as a threat. And then there are the Blood of Vol, the Undying Court, the Chamber and the Lords of Dust who may have their interest piqued for numerous reasons relating to the Prophecy.

For another interesting ramification to the game, I'd have it form over the Warforged's ghulra, replacing it entirely with its livid red and black design. The dwarves of the Aurum and House Cannith may be seriously horrified, and Clerics of the Silver Flame may decry it as an abomination, possessed by demons, or seriously insane.

You may want to look at the Taint rules from Heroes of Horror to enhance the curse of aberrant marks. Specifically, the mental deterioration that results from drawing upon its powers too much.

For my campaign, I plan on using the Taint system, so I've made the aberrant mark a free feat. Players of the dragonmarked races may willingly take it at any time (even during a combat ala The Grieving Tree), just so long as they do not have a dragonmark already.

Psymnotica
Dr. Confoundo
05-22-07, 01:49 PM Actually, something like the Taint system is perfect for modeling this 'curse'. Are there any differences between the versions of the Taint system in Heroes of Horror, and the one in Unearthed Arcana?
WotC_Shoe
05-22-07, 05:06 PM I'm still not sure about the free Dragonmark Feat the PCs acquire during the adventure. I've run a campaign (homebrew setting) where I've given PCs free bonus Feats for encountering an artifact, and I've found it seriously messes with game balence. I would have the marks fade after the adventure, or seriously limit treasure to make up for the Feat.To an extent, the Altar represents a "magical location", following the general rules for "magical locations as treasure" that we've presented in many recent books.

Generally, the power given to the PCs is roughly on par with getting a free low-level spell 1/day; the added benefit of qualifying for certain other prereqs (as if the PC had Aberrant Dragonmark) doesn't really upset game balance.

Now, of course, there could be world/story considerations for how the marks might affect the PCs outside the context of the adventure, and many good suggestions are in this thread.

My own Eberron campaign took a shift at the close of this adventure, with the story accelerating a year past the adventure's final battles (and away from established Eberron canon). The players were given a chance as a group to come up with the explanation for why they were now in the antechamber to Vol's throne room, about to have an audience to ask *her* assistance in combating a certain demonic invasion. Dragonmarks were relevant, but weren't the focus of the campaign, so I haven't had a chance to focus on repercussions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ugavine 05-13-07, 03:35 PM	Hi, This is a question for anyone who has fully read or completed the adventure - I'm still reading through. I'm planning on running the Eyes of the Lich Queen adventure sometime soon. Although I have only skimmed through the book one thing has brought up questions already. Dragonmarks. To be honest I've not delved too deeply into Eberrons history & culture yet, although I have read up on the Dragonmarks. At the start of the adventure the PCs gain Dragonmarks. The PCs are: Shifter Rogue Changeling Cleric Warforged Barbarian Warforged Monk Would they all still get the Dragonmarks, even the Warforged? Would it spoil the adventure without this 'sub-plot'? My group has just had great fun over the last few months getting their PCs up to Level 5 ready for this adventure, so creating new PCs is out of the question. Thanks in advance :cool:
cluelessplanewalker 05-13-07, 03:53 PM	All that is detailed on page 10 of Eyes of the Lich Queen. A creature that is not a member of a dragonmarked race gains the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy 1/day) feat. So, no need for new PCs.
tallric_kruush 05-13-07, 05:48 PM	All that is detailed on page 10 of Eyes of the Lich Queen. A creature that is not a member of a dragonmarked race gains the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy 1/day) feat. So, no need for new PCs. I don't have the adventure (yet), so I can't speak to the sidebar you mentioned. However, I'd think that applies to PCs like the changeling and shifter. Unless you deviate from Eberron canon (at least as I read it;) ), a warforged can never have a dragonmark. Maybe some alternate perk could be worked into the game to make up for the "breathers" getting 'marks. On a side note, Ugavine, it's nice to see a party composed entirely of the new "Eberron races". There's always been at least one elf or human in every group I've seen so far. Of course, you did mention these very races are the dragnet that hauled your SW buddies into Eberron in the first place.
Ugavine 05-13-07, 06:11 PM	All that is detailed on page 10 of Eyes of the Lich Queen. A creature that is not a member of a dragonmarked race gains the Aberrant Dragonmark (resist energy 1/day) feat. So, no need for new PCs. I'd flicked right past that page :rolleyes: tallric_kruush, yes the new races of Eberron are great :) Thanks all.
cluelessplanewalker 05-14-07, 07:25 AM	I don't have the adventure (yet), so I can't speak to the sidebar you mentioned. However, I'd think that applies to PCs like the changeling and shifter. Unless you deviate from Eberron canon (at least as I read it;) ), a warforged can never have a dragonmark. Maybe some alternate perk could be worked into the game to make up for the "breathers" getting 'marks. Actually, warforged are explicitly named as an example for a non-dragonmarked race that does get the Aberrant Dragonmark. I personally think its a nice idea to give the warforged these special marks, because it will increase the "whoa!!"-effect.
Dr. Confoundo 05-15-07, 08:05 PM	One thing I found odd about the Aberrent Dragonmarks that the party receives are that they are referenced in the text as being a 'curse', but there's really no downside to having them. If I run this module, I'm going to give them a little bit of a drawback - maybe a distracting itch that causes a -1 to hit, and which gets worse as time goes on. If this gets too annoying, the silver dragon can always whip out some salve or amulets that will allow the PCs to function normally, but which would eventually stop functioning against the curse.
Frederyck 05-16-07, 03:18 AM	The curse part is the social stigma associated with aberrant dragonmarks, I think. So it is basically a roleplay-drawback. If an aberrant dragonmark is spotted by a knowledgeable member of a dragonmarked house, you can be sure that the aberran bearing character will be hunted down. Aberrant dragonmarks often arise in the offspring from the union of two dragonmarked parents, which is, if I remember correctly, an offense punishable by death.
cluelessplanewalker 05-16-07, 05:44 AM	Also, wasn't it so, that the previous group that got "cursed" (I can't remember the names and don't have the book on me) died sooner or later because of it? I've only skimmed through the second half, so I'm not sure about that.
Dr. Confoundo 05-16-07, 02:15 PM	Also, wasn't it so, that the previous group that got "cursed" (I can't remember the names and don't have the book on me) died sooner or later because of it? I've only skimmed through the second half, so I'm not sure about that. That's what I was talking about... if it's just the social stigma attached to Aberrent Dragonmarks, that doesn't really count as a 'curse', does it? IIRC, the flavor text that the ghostly Sarlonian explorer gives mentions him being the last survivior of the cursed expedition - that implies more than just getting the hairy eyeball from people who are scared of your Aberrent Dragonmark. Additionally, I thought that having an Aberrent Dragonmark was more or less accepted now - although there was a time when they would be killed on sight, the bearers now might just be discriminated against, with no violence.
jpwyrm 05-18-07, 02:42 PM	In fact, every party member of the last Sarlonan expedition to get the marks died, not only those with an aberrant mark (i.e. if a human with the mark of sentinel was there, he also died). The fact is, the curse is supposed to motivate unenthousiastic players to search for a way to cure themselves (like Jheamast did). Mechanicaly speaking, the book doesn't give anything on what happens to PC who dicide to ignore the curse. Personnaly, if my players ignored the threat, I would find some degenerative and debilitating effects to the marks, eventualy leading them to death. Of course, that's saying they didn't got killed by the Emerald Claw first...
fhilbrandt 05-18-07, 03:09 PM	I'm still not sure about the free Dragonmark Feat the PCs acquire during the adventure. I've run a campaign (homebrew setting) where I've given PCs free bonus Feats for encountering an artifact, and I've found it seriously messes with game balence. I would have the marks fade after the adventure, or seriously limit treasure to make up for the Feat.
Recovering_Blackguard 05-18-07, 03:32 PM	In fact, every party member of the last Sarlonan expedition to get the marks died, not only those with an aberrant mark (i.e. if a human with the mark of sentinel was there, he also died). The fact is, the curse is supposed to motivate unenthousiastic players to search for a way to cure themselves (like Jheamast did). Mechanicaly speaking, the book doesn't give anything on what happens to PC who dicide to ignore the curse. Personnaly, if my players ignored the threat, I would find some degenerative and debilitating effects to the marks, eventualy leading them to death. Of course, that's saying they didn't got killed by the Emerald Claw first... Exactly. This is why they are referred to as a curse. It's also why just cutting this "sub-plot" out would be a bad idea -- it's intended to be the motivator for pushing them through the adventure (i.e., they are trying to figure out how to avoid dying within a year).
Ugavine 05-18-07, 03:40 PM	I think I'll certainly put emphasis on the Curse element of the Dragonmark when I run the adventure.
Psymnotica 05-22-07, 04:23 AM	Just to throw this out there, a warforged who gained an aberrant mark in my campaign would be a greatly feared being - both by the common populace and by the dragonmarked houses. It would get some serious bonus on Intimidation checks (like +2 or +4) made upon NPC's knowing who it was, but would suffer at Diplomacy checks (-6 or more), and have numerous people unwilling to do business with it or actively trying to do it harm. I would think that House Cannith would be both intrigued at the proposition that they, as a House, have created life that is a part of the Prophecy, and terrified at its implications for them. The Lord of Blades may also take an interest in the character, using him from a distance as a propaganda tool to rally the other Warforged to his cause, while trying to bring the character into the fold or eliminating him as a threat. And then there are the Blood of Vol, the Undying Court, the Chamber and the Lords of Dust who may have their interest piqued for numerous reasons relating to the Prophecy. For another interesting ramification to the game, I'd have it form over the Warforged's ghulra, replacing it entirely with its livid red and black design. The dwarves of the Aurum and House Cannith may be seriously horrified, and Clerics of the Silver Flame may decry it as an abomination, possessed by demons, or seriously insane. You may want to look at the Taint rules from Heroes of Horror to enhance the curse of aberrant marks. Specifically, the mental deterioration that results from drawing upon its powers too much. For my campaign, I plan on using the Taint system, so I've made the aberrant mark a free feat. Players of the dragonmarked races may willingly take it at any time (even during a combat ala The Grieving Tree), just so long as they do not have a dragonmark already. Psymnotica
Dr. Confoundo 05-22-07, 01:49 PM	Actually, something like the Taint system is perfect for modeling this 'curse'. Are there any differences between the versions of the Taint system in Heroes of Horror, and the one in Unearthed Arcana?
WotC_Shoe 05-22-07, 05:06 PM	I'm still not sure about the free Dragonmark Feat the PCs acquire during the adventure. I've run a campaign (homebrew setting) where I've given PCs free bonus Feats for encountering an artifact, and I've found it seriously messes with game balence. I would have the marks fade after the adventure, or seriously limit treasure to make up for the Feat.To an extent, the Altar represents a "magical location", following the general rules for "magical locations as treasure" that we've presented in many recent books. Generally, the power given to the PCs is roughly on par with getting a free low-level spell 1/day; the added benefit of qualifying for certain other prereqs (as if the PC had Aberrant Dragonmark) doesn't really upset game balance. Now, of course, there could be world/story considerations for how the marks might affect the PCs outside the context of the adventure, and many good suggestions are in this thread. My own Eberron campaign took a shift at the close of this adventure, with the story accelerating a year past the adventure's final battles (and away from established Eberron canon). The players were given a chance as a group to come up with the explanation for why they were now in the antechamber to Vol's throne room, about to have an audience to ask her assistance in combating a certain demonic invasion. Dragonmarks were relevant, but weren't the focus of the campaign, so I haven't had a chance to focus on repercussions.