Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ieattrollsforbreakfast 08-04-06, 06:35 PM	Well, having just read the preview on the official site, I have come away rather pleased. The book sounds pretty much exactly as I hoped it would be: information from the point of view of the people of Eberron. I like what they have done with the Godforged, the expansion from that single paragraph in RoE to this length passage has worked well. One thing I did notice is that the final chapter 'Trappings of the Faith' makes no mention of prestige classes. It's probably nothing to worry about, though, I expect the PrCs will be included in the chapters of the relevant religion.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-04-06, 06:53 PM	Wheres the preview? Oh its just the little summary of it? Thought you meant some pages or something. Yeah I'm looking forward to it.
Amaril 08-04-06, 07:00 PM	Wheres the preview? Oh its just the little summary of it? Thought you meant some pages or something. Yeah I'm looking forward to it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060804a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060804b&page=1
Joni-san 08-04-06, 07:01 PM	Preview Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060804b&page=1). I'm burning to get this book!
ChimericalWolf 08-04-06, 07:22 PM	I admit to being troubled about the lack of any mention (that I saw) of the Path of Light.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-04-06, 07:39 PM	Oh wow. The Godforged piece is awesome. I also like that they don't like the Lord of Blades and don't have any against the Reforged.
Amaril 08-04-06, 07:56 PM	Oh wow. The Godforged piece is awesome. I also like that they don't like the Lord of Blades and don't have any against the Reforged. I read just the opposite in the "Quests" section: The Godforged see the Lord of Blades not as a divine being in himself but as a true prophet of the Becoming God. If he indeed controls the Firstforge, he is the only one of their kind to build bodies that hold living souls. Moreover, a soul attached by this prophet cannot help but have a firmer bond to its body. Many argue that to find the Lord of Blades is to find the way to the Becoming God. Still, none know how to locate the warforged Lord, nor he they, although he would welcome such followers. It also seems that they do have something against the reforged: The Reforged: Why should we seek to change our bodies to weak flesh? We were created in the image of our god, and it is our duty to create for him the most perfect body. It is blasphemous to think that the body he gave us is not sufficient.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-04-06, 08:48 PM	Hmm.. maybe I misread something...
mhacdebhandia 08-04-06, 08:48 PM	Well, I am assuming that the Path of Light will be in the chapter with the Aereni Undying Court, the cults of the Dragon Below, the Valenar Keepers of the Past, and so on. I'm incredibly excited for this book - I have a degree in religious studies, and fictional ideas about religion are fascinating, especially in Eberron where the lack of certainty lends the disparate faiths a verisimilitude that religions in the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk lack (not that they're not interesting themselves).
ieattrollsforbreakfast 08-05-06, 07:23 AM	If the Path of Light isn't detailed much (or at all, which is unlikely) in this book, chances are it'll have a larger write-up in Secrets of Sarlona.
Just another user 08-05-06, 09:19 AM	The book is about the major religious movements in Khorvaine, the path of light outside Adar should be virtually unknown. I can't wait to read this book, that they have written it froma in-character perspective is the oinly correct way to do it, imho. Nothing worse than an absolute definite when you come to religion.
Amaril 08-05-06, 09:47 AM	The book is about the major religious movements in Khorvaine, the path of light outside Adar should be virtually unknown. The Cult of the Dragon Below is also supposed to be relatively off the radar, but it's included. Also, whether it's virtually unkown or not shouldn't be criteria for whether or not it is included as a DM or player reference.
Bluebrush 08-05-06, 10:41 AM	Also, it says Faiths of *Eberron*, not Khorvaire. I wonder if we'll be seeing anything for Xen'drik and Argonnesen religions.
iKitten 08-05-06, 10:43 AM	The book is about the major religious movements in Khorvaine, the path of light outside Adar should be virtually unknown. I can't wait to read this book, that they have written it froma in-character perspective is the oinly correct way to do it, imho. Nothing worse than an absolute definite when you come to religion. I disagree, on grounds of title, as well as a few others, but we'll touch on those if necessary. For now, just title will do. The book's Faiths of Eberron not Faiths of Khorvaire. The Path of Light is part of the religion of the setting. As long as it doesn't give me stats on any deities, I'll be happy. Edit: Bluebrush and I appear to have been on the same track with just a two minute difference.
JayDubya 08-05-06, 10:51 AM	MEIN GOTT. I'm ordering it just for Wayne Reynold's giant Azm front and center... He's on the cover of the ECS but that's one a relatively bad drawing of him. Here, holy hell! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0803iw_faiths_of_eberron_spread.jpg I want a poster of that. Or a wallpaper. So awesome. :)
Just another user 08-05-06, 11:40 AM	I disagree, on grounds of title, as well as a few others, but we'll touch on those if necessary. For now, just title will do. The book's Faiths of Eberron not Faiths of Khorvaire. The Path of Light is part of the religion of the setting. From the preview. "This book discusses the major religious movements in Khorvaire, as well as some of the lesser but influential sects." ù It could talk about the Path of light but it even could not.
Salla 08-05-06, 09:31 PM	I suspect that the Path of Light will be mentioned. How significantly, I can't speculate. I was going to pass on this one, since I don't really pay much heed to religion, but ... Godforged. Gotta get it.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-05-06, 09:51 PM	MEIN GOTT. I'm ordering it just for Wayne Reynold's giant Azm front and center... He's on the cover of the ECS but that's one a relatively bad drawing of him. Here, holy hell! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0803iw_faiths_of_eberron_spread.jpg I want a poster of that. Or a wallpaper. So awesome. :) I agree. Just wish there was a bigger pic of it so I could MAKE a poster of it.
JayDubya 08-05-06, 11:14 PM	I agree. Just wish there was a bigger pic of it so I could MAKE a poster of it. The worst of it that given where it's oriented, the cover will focus on a cleric and the middle of Azm's head is going to be in the crease of the book. :(
JulesCARV 08-05-06, 11:29 PM	I have a small issue with this quote from the introduction: "Clerics gain their spells from their own faith, not from divine intervention." Oh really? Do we know that? I thought that it was supposed to be one of the great mysteries of the setting: maybe Olladra is a Greyhawk/FR-style god (albeit not a very picky one, in terms of alignments), in a plane that's even more obscure and remote than Dal Quor, but really does grant spells like a Greyhawk/FR style god, and keep track of events on the material (and other) planes. Maybe Olladra is outside of Eberron and its planar system altogether, in a realm entirely different in nature from the world character know, only influencing things in a highly abstract, vague manner, generally spreading goodness and fighting the Dark Six, but not interacting with individual clerics. Or maybe Olladra doesn't exist at all, and it's all made up. Is it really certain that clerics don't gain their spells from divine intervention? It's certainly not certain that they do.
Loki5654 08-05-06, 11:35 PM	About the Godforged: Was I the only one who started thinking about that thing from the end of Grasp of the Emerald Claw? You know, that thing? That thing and the Godforged? Great. Adventure. Idea. xulo
JayDubya 08-05-06, 11:37 PM	Xulo is a cool idea but the execution in the adventure book is craptastic. It's better as a macguffin for the LoBster and Merrix to fight over.
Hellcow 08-05-06, 11:49 PM	I have a small issue with this quote from the introduction: "Clerics gain their spells from their own faith, not from divine intervention." Oh really? Do we know that? With the understanding that I didn't work directly on this book, I think you're reading too much into this sentence, Jules. To me, what this means is that clerics do not receive spells DIRECTLY from the gods... IE, you won't see this situation. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=40) It's the same way that commune works, and it DOES put you in touch with a higher being... but not THE GOD. A devout follower of the Sovereigns would say that yes, it is his exceptional faith that allows him to perform divine magic... but only because his faith serves as a channel to the Sovereigns. In other words, HE believes that the Sovereigns are the source of his power... but even he will admit that he doesn't personally chat with Dol Dorn and say "Dude, give me a greater magic weapon today." So, I think this statement is simply supposed to mean that clerics have no direct contact with their deities... NOT to conclusively state that deities play no role whatsoever in divine magic. As for all the questions concerning the Path of Light, I'm 99% certain it will be covered in the book... just not in the same level of detail as those faiths given their own chapters.
mhacdebhandia 08-05-06, 11:55 PM	Would it be safe to speculate that the Path of Light is one of the things Secrets of Sarlona might cover?
Salla 08-06-06, 12:28 AM	Nice link, Mr. Baker. :D
Kaoru Nagisa 08-06-06, 01:44 AM	Yes. I began to think of it too, actually. Now... I'm not all that fond of Grasp of the Emerald Claw, but Xulo is a good character, and one I could definitely think would be fun to use. I was thinking of using him (if the players didnt' destroy him) as the harbinger of a war in Sharn. (Taking control of Merrix, building an army of warforged, generally wreaking havoc until PCs save the day.) But the Godforged stuff... well. I may have to alter my plans now.
Romulus LoneWolf 08-06-06, 09:57 AM	I'm jonesin for Faiths of Eberron.. :D
Edymnion 08-06-06, 02:15 PM	And we already have a lovely little base for the Becoming God once he gets a body. Can anybody say "Iron Colossus"? Sure, I knew you could :D
Fion81 08-06-06, 07:41 PM	With the understanding that I didn't work directly on this book, I think you're reading too much into this sentence, Jules. To me, what this means is that clerics do not receive spells DIRECTLY from the gods... IE, you won't see this situation. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=40) It's the same way that commune works, and it DOES put you in touch with a higher being... but not THE GOD. A devout follower of the Sovereigns would say that yes, it is his exceptional faith that allows him to perform divine magic... but only because his faith serves as a channel to the Sovereigns. In other words, HE believes that the Sovereigns are the source of his power... but even he will admit that he doesn't personally chat with Dol Dorn and say "Dude, give me a greater magic weapon today." So, I think this statement is simply supposed to mean that clerics have no direct contact with their deities... NOT to conclusively state that deities play no role whatsoever in divine magic. As for all the questions concerning the Path of Light, I'm 99% certain it will be covered in the book... just not in the same level of detail as those faiths given their own chapters. Hehe, i see your point but what about preventing this situation. http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80
Hellcow 08-06-06, 07:56 PM	Hehe, i see your point but what about preventing this situation. Actually, I think that situation is perfectly appropriate in Eberron. It's possible it's Elan's raw faith that is generating the result seen (and the fact that it's a fairly pathetic result says something about the strength of his faith). It's possible that he's drawing on an archetype that resonates within the populace at large (though again, not very well). Or, it's possible that Olladra is taking pity on the bard and answering his prayers... and might answer them more strongly if he worshipped her in the proper form (which is what a follower of the Sovereigns would likely say). While the ECS suggests that people can create their own religions, this is supposed to require a clear idea and deep devotion; again, Elan's failure to obtain anything meaningful from his personal religion is a fairly good example of what would happen to the average person who says "I want to worship a shoe." The ECS option is intended to add versatility to the game, but the major religions are major religions for a reason; prayers are more likely to be answered when directed to a Sovereign than a "newborn" god. And that's one of the main arguments for the independent existence of the Sovereigns; they may not walk the earth, but they produce more clerics and adepts than the random faiths.
JulesCARV 08-06-06, 08:40 PM	Perhaps I was reading too much into the "faith" line. After all, it wasn't as if it said, "gods have nothing to do with divine magic! NOZINK!" Nice to see that the WotC contest winners retain a sense of noblesse oblige toward the less fortunate in promoting their webcomics. (j/k)
Salla 08-06-06, 10:24 PM	Perhaps I was reading too much into the "faith" line. After all, it wasn't as if it said, "gods have nothing to do with divine magic! NOZINK!" Nice to see that the WotC contest winners retain a sense of noblesse oblige toward the less fortunate in promoting their webcomics. (j/k) On the other hand, you could consider the possibility that all clerics in Eberron are 'clerics of a cause', however many of them simply anthropomorphize them into gods ... my personal take on it. :D
dang 08-07-06, 05:28 AM	i'm just a little annoyed that the book covers the "main" religions, like the SF, exhaustively when we already know so much about them. Then, the preview relegates the rest to "minority religions" in a separate chapter. What? they're ALL minority religions. I'm annoyed that anything not 5 nations related keeps getting minor mentions in little essays that rephrase the exact same info in EVERY BOOK: "Aerenal, they're elves, they have dead people walking around... you're welcome, and that'll be 50 bucks... but hey, we wrote another way in this chapter for you to completely warp your 'forged -- how bout the Dwarforged? the bloodforged? slap on a prefix - any prefix - it'll be awesome!" blech. WotC could avoid making us buy a whole book on another small region by just including crunchy topical info when it's relevant!
Loki5654 08-07-06, 05:32 AM	but hey, we wrote another way in this chapter for you to completely warp your 'forged -- how bout the Dwarforged? the bloodforged? slap on a prefix - any prefix - it'll be awesome!" Coming up next month: Eight more ways of turning your character into a half-dragon!
The White Sorcerer 08-07-06, 05:59 AM	What? they're ALL minority religions. Except for the Sovereign Host, the Silver Flame, and the Blood of Vol. Then again, I might've misunderstood your statement. What do you mean by "ALL"?
ChimericalWolf 08-07-06, 01:01 PM	i'm just a little annoyed that the book covers the "main" religions, like the SF, exhaustively when we already know so much about them. Then, the preview relegates the rest to "minority religions" in a separate chapter. What? they're ALL minority religions. I'm annoyed that anything not 5 nations related keeps getting minor mentions in little essays that rephrase the exact same info in EVERY BOOK: "Aerenal, they're elves, they have dead people walking around... you're welcome, and that'll be 50 bucks... but hey, we wrote another way in this chapter for you to completely warp your 'forged -- how bout the Dwarforged? the bloodforged? slap on a prefix - any prefix - it'll be awesome!" blech. WotC could avoid making us buy a whole book on another small region by just including crunchy topical info when it's relevant! Don't like it? Don't buy it. Welcome to the Free Market, chummer.
Hellcow 08-07-06, 01:40 PM	Then, the preview relegates the rest to "minority religions" in a separate chapter. What? they're ALL minority religions. Like the others, I'm not quite sure I follow this statement. The Sovereign Host and Silver Flame AREN'T limited to the Five Nations. The Sovereigns and Six have been worshipped by different cultures and species across the world, from humans to sahuagin to the ancient giants. I don't see how you could lump this with the Becoming God and say "They're both minority religions". I'm annoyed that anything not 5 nations related keeps getting minor mentions in little essays that rephrase the exact same info in EVERY BOOK: "Aerenal, they're elves, they have dead people walking around..." *shrug* I'm not an author on the book, so I can't tell you what you're going to get. But I would expect to see a discussion of rites and rituals of the Undying Court, hierarchy and duties of the priesthood, variant sects, etc... which as far as I know is a level of information that's currently unavailable on the UC. It's not just going to be "Oh, they like them some dead people." And if you are referring to the fact that the PG2E reprinted some material from the Dragonshards (specifically, relating to Aerenal)... part of the issue is that not everyone reads Dragonshards. Now that that information has been printed in an official Eberron sourcebook, you shouldn't see it reprinted elsewhere. But the issue is that as a WotC board user, you ARE better informed than the typical Eberron player; only a fraction of the people who buy the books use the boards. So there is a risk that you'll get Dragonshard bleedover (or the alternative, an effort to avoid any Dragonshard subjects that could end up appearing in sourcebooks, so as to avoid precisely this sort of complaint). It may be that it's not the book for you; again, as I'm not one of the authors of the book, I CAN'T tell you what you're going to get. But I suspect that you'll get good, new information even on the "minority" religions. And while I understand your frustrated on the "Bloodforged", this is a book about religions of Eberron, and given that, covering warforged religion is certainly appropriate. It's a religion that has been mentioned in the past and that addresses the questions the warforged are facing as a newborn race. If the Godforged are described INSTEAD of, say, the Path of Light or the Undying Court, I'd be upset. But I believe that all of these will be covered.
JulesCARV 08-07-06, 01:42 PM	Don't like it? Don't buy it. Welcome to the Free Market, chummer. Is there any aesthetic or design decision that wouldn't be justified by this aphorism?
Euangelion 08-07-06, 02:51 PM	It may be a small thing compared to the whole scheme of things, but I'm hoping that in the midst of great amounts of fluff that FoE will nail down a few crunchy questions that I have, like whether or not religious adepts get the granted power of their domain or just access to its spells; and if they do get access to the granted power, what does that mean for adepts with turn/rebuke/greater turning/greater rebuking domains like Plant, the elementals ones, and Sun/Deathless. Again, not a big deal overall, but just a little thing that's bothered me since the ECS came out.
iKitten 08-07-06, 03:14 PM	For some reason, the Godforged preview calls to mind a bunch of goblin would-be artificers in the Mournland making this hulking, smoking, lopsided, steampunk-esque giant "automaton" cobbled together from whatever parts they could find and barely able to articulate it's arms, much less it's legs. Then, as the procession of godforged strolls within eyesight, every goblin hides inside the body (which is good, because everything that actually does work on the mess is manual powered in one way or another) and the self-appointed leader of the goblins (as evidenced not by his intelligence score, which would be pitifully low, but by how many other goblins he had to beat to become leader) climbs up to the megaphone device and delivers what he considers a speech in his squeaky voice. "Me 'Be-an' god! You follow us...I mean...me now! 'Be-an' god demand tribute of meat and shinies!" Whether or not the warforged just go "Right..." and knock the thing down or actually follow it is a matter of much humor in my mind, but then, this whole train of thought is the same.
okaynowa 08-07-06, 03:48 PM	Said iKitten:the self-appointed leader of the goblins (as evidenced not by his intelligence score, which would be pitifully low, but by how many other goblins he had to beat to become leader)Just remember: goblins don't have an Intelligence penalty. They do, however, have a Charisma penalty. So, their grammar would be better, but their word choice would be ruder.
Euangelion 08-07-06, 04:40 PM	Said iKitten:Just remember: goblins don't have an Intelligence penalty. They do, however, have a Charisma penalty. So, their grammar would be better, but their word choice would be ruder. But not in a particularly Intimidating way! ;)
iKitten 08-07-06, 06:21 PM	Said iKitten:Just remember: goblins don't have an Intelligence penalty. They do, however, have a Charisma penalty. So, their grammar would be better, but their word choice would be ruder. Low intelligence does not automatically denote a penalty. The character's iconic as well as the butt of a joke. Remember, characters first, crunch second.