Familiars with flare [Archive] - Wizards Community

Familiars with flare [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bashfull
08-04-07, 02:50 PM I'm playing a character who aspires to be a windwright captain. Although primarily a swashbuckler, he's gone to Morgrave and studied hard to be able to cast some arcane spells (Lev 1 Wiz to go with his Swashy levels). As such, he has a familiar. Due to lack of experience in spell casting classes, and because I thought a fellow who aimed to fly would choose a flying familiar, I chose a raven (a parrot would just be too cliched). I even injected some humour by naming it from someone in our first adventure. But I'm finding that the familiar tends to be forgotten.

Can anyone give tips, or links to articles, that can make Lillian the raven a more interesting roleplaying experience for me and the group, please?
Kinger
08-04-07, 05:01 PM Remember your Raven can speak one language. That's immensely helpful. In addition, it has all the skill ranks you do, so it can make those Knowledge checks too.

Countless times my Dwarf Transmuter would be stumped by a Knowledge check, and the Raven would have to lean over and whisper in his ear.

"Psst! Master, Gricks are Aberrations with a thick hide only magic weapons can bypass easily!"
pmurray@bigpond.com
08-05-07, 08:56 AM Yes, you are absolutely right - familars are more trouble than they are worth.

As someome pointed out, your familar can speak. There are materials for customising NPCs in the DMG and elsewhere. Roll up some sets of personality traits/quirks until you find something you like, and play that.

He/she could be terminally pessimistic, or greedy, or bloodthirsty. Not sarcastic, though, because it would irritate the other players. Perhaps a deep-seated hatred of ducks and the entire poultry family? A talent for mimicry and a habit of taunting cats? An alcoholic - now *there's* a thought. An alcoholic, and a habit, when drunk, of reciting Lewis Carrol.

The Walrus and the Carpenter (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html)
You are old, Father William (http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/444.html)
The Hunting of the Snark (http://www.literature.org/authors/carroll-lewis/the-hunting-of-the-snark/)
The Duchess' Lullaby (http://ingeb.org/songs/speakrou.html)
And, of course,
Jabberwocky (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html).

Does anyone have stats for a Jabberwock? or A Boojum?
Kinger
08-05-07, 11:36 AM Take note of your familiar's ability scores. Raven's are wiser than your average... well, any humanoid, really. His greater wisdom and lesser charisma imbued my Raven with a distinct pessimistic streak that he would voice at occasionally inappropriate times.
Symar
08-05-07, 11:44 AM Stats for a Boojum? Don't need them. Anyone who encounters one will soon vanish, so it doesn't really matter. Hehe.
Bashfull
08-05-07, 12:40 PM He/she could be terminally pessimistic, or greedy, or bloodthirsty. Not sarcastic, though, because it would irritate the other players. Perhaps a deep-seated hatred of ducks and the entire poultry family? A talent for mimicry and a habit of taunting cats? An alcoholic - now *there's* a thought. An alcoholic, and a habit, when drunk, of reciting Lewis Carrol.

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

So funny! Genius!
Nerdicus
08-05-07, 01:40 PM I have a player in a game with a raven Familiar who is the comic relief for the group. The player main character is a warforged battle caster with a very no nonsense sort of guy. His raven on the other hand loves to crack jokes and generally **** people off. All in all I find it pretty funny. Often the raven will do all the talking for the warforged who goes for the strong silent type.

On another note, I have a character who recently got shot throat the throat and no longer talk. If he had a familiar, it would be a raven or parrot, and it would do all the talking for him. Alas he is not a wizard and does not have a familiar.....

But yeah, give your familiar a personality that compliments your main character. And use him as your eyes and ears. Ravens can be found nearly everywhere so it wouldn't look too ridiculous to have one just sitting there watching people. Awsome spy tool!
Edymnion
08-05-07, 09:59 PM Equip your familiar!
So many people forget that they can do that.
Honestly, look at it's strength score, and then look at the weight on say, a tiny mithril breastplate. Long as the bird is only at light encumbrance, it can still fly.

If nothing else, give it some leather armor (barding), maybe have it missing an eye, and be the hardened old salt thats always suggesting the no nonsense get'r'dun approach, while your character wants to do more of the swashbuckling high adventure approach.

Basically, two sides of the same coin. The character is carefree, the familiar (being an extension of it's master) has come to be worrysome and careful, as a sort of balance to the master.

You can also look at the Psicrystals from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the way they store personality shards, and use those to build your raven's personality from.
nightside_samurai
08-05-07, 10:54 PM If he had a familiar, it would be a raven or parrot, and it would do all the talking for him. Alas he is not a wizard and does not have a familiar.....

Just remember parrots only make bird noises since their speech is mimicry not a natural sound they make.
Bashfull
08-06-07, 03:59 AM "Their speech is mimicry, their speech is mimicry, their speech is mimicry.....aaark!"

"Shut up, Polly."

"Shut up, Polly, shut up, Polly....aaark!"

:D
Edymnion
08-06-07, 08:37 AM Just remember parrots only make bird noises since their speech is mimicry not a natural sound they make.Well, technically so is human speech. We learn to mimic the sounds of those around us, as no one would be speaking english or any other language we know of today naturally.

And studies have shown that the smarter birds, like a macaw, are doing more than just mimicking the noises, that they have a basic understanding of speech. Ever seen the discovery channel where they have the macaw that can tell you "little red truck" when you hold up a small red truck toy and ask what it is?

Sure, you can call it complex mindless mimickry, but then we get into the same debate as artificial intelligence. Prove to me that *YOU* aren't just mimicking speech and emotion, as opposed to actually having them?
Nived
08-06-07, 08:51 AM They key, especially with a raven is to make him his own character, you've already gotten that advice. I remember a wizard in our party had a raven once who had a very memorable moment of role playing in a campaign. After a particularly hard fight everyone was beaten down.

When we started looting the corpses the other player said "While you're looking though the pockets of the soldier my raven flies down, lands beside you," He then looked at me, then the table in front of me, then to me tilting his head, "You gonna eat that?"

It was late and it had been a dramatic fight, maybe it was the sleep deprivation, or just breaking tention, but the table erupted in laughter.

So remember, ravens are carrion eaters, that is dark comedy gold.
Subtle Knife
08-06-07, 08:53 AM Just remember parrots only make bird noises since their speech is mimicry not a natural sound they make.

Actually, studies have shown that parrots, particularly long-lived ones, can have the intellectual capacity of a five-year-old, being able to recognize and identify objects verbally. This is not mimicry; this is learned behavior.

Edymnion is right. You cannot prove that you are not simply mimicking your parents'/guardians' verbal patterns. It happens all the time - look at accents!

Getting a bit philosophical, though, perhaps we could help the original poster with his/her problem?

I agree that the personality of the familiar is an important factor; we have a half-orc Duskblade/Barbarian who gained a Raven Familiar via the Obtain Familiar feat (CArc), who is a serious alcoholic, is greedy (demands a fraction of party treasures, though often only a single coin), and likes to swear in Orcish.

SK
nightside_samurai
08-06-07, 11:09 AM A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

Emphasis mine.
Edymnion
08-06-07, 11:54 AM Emphasis mine.A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)Emphasis mine.
We're talking about a familiar here. Ravens can't normally speak, but the familiar can. Parrots are specifically said to use raven stats as familiars.

If we want to get picky with the more real life stuff, the parrot has to be trained to speak in english (or common, whatever). Remember, you have to train humans to speak a language as well.
Esgay
08-06-07, 01:22 PM Is everyone forgetting that a familiar is a magical beast, you know, magical beast as in griffons and purple worms and such.
People also seem to be forgetting that the ability for a raven to speak is a supernatural ability, supernatural as in the thing that lets beholders shoot eye-lasers. I don't think that arguing about the real-world intellegence of mackaws really applies here :p

Go nuts with your familiar, give it a broad accent and a tendancy to point out when people are doing something stupid.
nightside_samurai
08-06-07, 02:22 PM Emphasis mine.
We're talking about a familiar here. Ravens can't normally speak, but the familiar can. Parrots are specifically said to use raven stats as familiars.

The reason Ravens can talk is that in folklore and fairy tales the Raven was considered a magical creature who was often tricking humans and such. The ability to speak is a reflection of that mythological connection.

That being said, I would have the parrot start as a regular bird but require Handle Animal checks throughout it's life to add to it's vocabulary.
Edymnion
08-06-07, 02:36 PM The reason Ravens can talk is that in folklore and fairy tales the Raven was considered a magical creature who was often tricking humans and such. The ability to speak is a reflection of that mythological connection.And modern folk lore is that parrots can talk. "Poly want a cracker" is so common its cliche. Check the Pirates of the Carribean movies, they feature a parrot that talks throughout the films.

The point is though, a normal mundane raven in D&D cannot talk.
A normal mundane parrot in D&D cannot talk.

A raven familiar can talk.
The books specifically say a parrot familiar uses the same stats as a raven, hence it can also talk.
nightside_samurai
08-06-07, 02:38 PM The books specifically say a parrot familiar uses the same stats as a raven, hence it can also talk.

I view it differently but it doesn't matter as long as we're having fun :D
TheKeyofE
08-07-07, 02:12 AM Basically, two sides of the same coin. The character is carefree, the familiar (being an extension of it's master) has come to be worrysome and careful, as a sort of balance to the master.

I tend to play my psicrystals like this, not so much my familiars.

But I'm finding that the familiar tends to be forgotten.

Can anyone give tips, or links to articles, that can make Lillian the raven a more interesting roleplaying experience for me and the group, please?
Part of the reason familiars get forgotten is because it's difficult as a player to jump from being in character with your PC to in character with your familiar, and back and forth. Try having your DM play the familiar as an NPC; the DM is constantly jumping in and out of character as he plays all the NPCs in the campaign, so it might not be as hard for him to roleplay the familiar as it is for you.

If you'd rather play the familiar yourself, give it a catchphrase or something it ALWAYS does that both you and the other players will find funny and memorable. The "Are you gonna eat that?" is a good example. If the other players get in on it, it becomes harder to forget that the familiar is there.

Another example is my current character, a warforged artificer. He has a weapon familiar from the racial substitution in Races of Eberron, and I got DM permission to make the familiar a Battlefist. The Battlefist talks like a sock puppet, and his catchphrase is thus: anytime a character (or player) says or does something stupid, I put my hand close to the players face and whisper "You suck." The other players loved it, and by the second session of the campaign they would all remember it, and remind ME if I ever forgot.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
08-07-07, 04:58 PM Btw, TheKeyofE, that warforged with the talking fist is awesome. Consider the idea snagged.

Speaking of snagging (and now on topic), Bashfull, I would recommend you take a page from the book of Raz the Rogue Mage (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=687430). Like your character, he's not a particularly devoted mage. He messed up during the ritual that made a ferret his familiar. Raz fragmented off a part of his personality and imbued it in his familiar. So now we have an elf who's incapable of understanding the birds and the bees and a ferret a little too interested in humanoid women. You don't have to go with that exact route, but think about what could be missing.

I'll second the "you gonna eat that?" suggestion.

Or maybe Lillian has a musical inclination.
Bashfull
08-08-07, 09:18 AM Right, it's settled. My swashbuckler, mostly moral, high born, perfect manners, lady charmer.

Lillian, the gross raven, with great lines like, "You going to eat that?" and, "Which bit do you like best?"

Herewith starts a competition: I'm looking for gag lines for Lillian, the (un)musical raven, who always wants to eat the corpses. The winner gets my signature to sing their praises. Something along the lines of:

Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi, the greatest poster ever on the Eberron forums, gave me the funniest line ever for my familiar. Oh, he is so witty, he is so funny, it makes me want to polish his dice.

Let's have them, clever people. :D :D
Mysticbadger
08-08-07, 11:05 AM The reason Ravens can talk is that in folklore and fairy tales the Raven was considered a magical creature who was often tricking humans and such. The ability to speak is a reflection of that mythological connection.

sorry, corvidae's defensor here... Ravens are able to speak a few words, like parrots but to a lesser extent. Scientifically proved. But they are less trained by people because of their reputation.
Ryoden_Anariavas
08-08-07, 11:06 AM "Use mace it tenterizes"
;)

(mace is a spice (http://www.apinchof.com/mace1097.htm) and a bludgeoning weapon)
Nerdicus
08-08-07, 11:42 AM "Dibs on the eyes!"

"Hey Lady, wanna get beaked?"

And let's not forget that nothing is as distracting as having a bird crap on your shoulder.

:)
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
08-08-07, 05:56 PM Ok, here's a few:

- "Bombs away!" For when Lillian gets mad at someone.
- [wolfish whistle] "How you doing?" "Squack. Pretty girl." "Lilly want some sugar." Admittedly, these would work better if Lillian were a male. Who knows, maybe your swashbuckler didn't properly ID Lillian's gender. That'd be great. More comedy! Lillian probably nags you after every introduction about how he's a male raven, thank you very much.
- [belch] "That was tasty."
- [when your character is hitting it off well with a woman] "He likes you." "Stay outta my tree when you're K-I-S-S-I-N-G." (sing it).
- [during an introduction to a woman] "He's picturing you naked."
*NEW*
- [in best Homer Simpson impression] "mmm. . . entrails."
Bashfull
08-09-07, 01:45 PM Excellent contributions so far! Our session starts in 45 mins, so I'll draw the competition to a close then. Thank you, kind contributors. :D
Bashfull
08-10-07, 06:45 AM Omnirahk, Nerdicus and Ryoden_Anariavas, as the sole contributors, I'm giving you the sig.

Just to let you know, I took Omni's suggestion, and Lillian is a male raven after all (the interplay on that was great, and now my DM wants to play Lillian most of the time). Lillian also took the time to poop on a Watch sergeant who suggested my pet may not be allowed in some of the classier establishments in Sharn (I did point out to Lillian that he may well have meant the Shifter in our party). Lilliant started pecking the eyes out of a hobgoblin corpse before I even got a chance to say anything, thanks to the DM's enthusiasm for him. He was told off, and we are trying to reach some sort of understanding about what he can and can't eat. He did turn down some delicious dolgaunt later in the evening.

Anyway, for the next while, my signature will be singing the praises of the above posters. Well done and thanks, people.
Bashfull
08-10-07, 07:06 AM There you go, fellas.
Nerdicus
08-10-07, 11:33 AM You're too kind. :embarrass
Edymnion
08-10-07, 01:04 PM Just for the record, that sig is horrible. Seriously, tone it down...

Anywho, just a thought to add to this, try having the raven pester you to get a flaming sword, it wants to try barbeque. :)
Bashfull
08-11-07, 04:25 AM Thanks for posting the link to the tact filter with your post, mate. :D
NthDegree256
08-11-07, 11:12 AM Thanks for posting the link to the tact filter with your post, mate. :D

I think he has less of an issue with the content of your sig, and more with the GIANT RED LETTERING. Which is a tad annoying. I'm sure none of the people named in the sig would mind if you toned down the effect a little - maybe a little smaller, not such a bright color, etc.
ArcTan
08-13-07, 03:34 PM Well, technically so is human speech. We learn to mimic the sounds of those around us, as no one would be speaking english or any other language we know of today naturally.

And studies have shown that the smarter birds, like a macaw, are doing more than just mimicking the noises, that they have a basic understanding of speech. Ever seen the discovery channel where they have the macaw that can tell you "little red truck" when you hold up a small red truck toy and ask what it is?

Sure, you can call it complex mindless mimickry, but then we get into the same debate as artificial intelligence. Prove to me that *YOU* aren't just mimicking speech and emotion, as opposed to actually having them?

This is all irrelevant for familiars, who magically get the ability to speak language just as well as a human can, even if they're not the kind of animal that can normally mimic human speech (say, a toad familiar).
Ryoden_Anariavas
08-14-07, 09:55 AM ;) thanks
cancerousmango
08-15-07, 02:05 AM LULZ.
Edymnion
08-15-07, 08:00 PM This is all irrelevant for familiars, who magically get the ability to speak language just as well as a human can, even if they're not the kind of animal that can normally mimic human speech (say, a toad familiar).No they can't. Look at the rules for Familiars. They can only learn to speak with their master and with animals of their kind. At no point does a default familiar ever get the ability to speak a language. That is a special ability reserved only for the Raven (and any familiar that uses the same stats as a raven).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bashfull 08-04-07, 02:50 PM	I'm playing a character who aspires to be a windwright captain. Although primarily a swashbuckler, he's gone to Morgrave and studied hard to be able to cast some arcane spells (Lev 1 Wiz to go with his Swashy levels). As such, he has a familiar. Due to lack of experience in spell casting classes, and because I thought a fellow who aimed to fly would choose a flying familiar, I chose a raven (a parrot would just be too cliched). I even injected some humour by naming it from someone in our first adventure. But I'm finding that the familiar tends to be forgotten. Can anyone give tips, or links to articles, that can make Lillian the raven a more interesting roleplaying experience for me and the group, please?
Kinger 08-04-07, 05:01 PM	Remember your Raven can speak one language. That's immensely helpful. In addition, it has all the skill ranks you do, so it can make those Knowledge checks too. Countless times my Dwarf Transmuter would be stumped by a Knowledge check, and the Raven would have to lean over and whisper in his ear. "Psst! Master, Gricks are Aberrations with a thick hide only magic weapons can bypass easily!"
pmurray@bigpond.com 08-05-07, 08:56 AM	Yes, you are absolutely right - familars are more trouble than they are worth. As someome pointed out, your familar can speak. There are materials for customising NPCs in the DMG and elsewhere. Roll up some sets of personality traits/quirks until you find something you like, and play that. He/she could be terminally pessimistic, or greedy, or bloodthirsty. Not sarcastic, though, because it would irritate the other players. Perhaps a deep-seated hatred of ducks and the entire poultry family? A talent for mimicry and a habit of taunting cats? An alcoholic - now there's a thought. An alcoholic, and a habit, when drunk, of reciting Lewis Carrol. The Walrus and the Carpenter (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html) You are old, Father William (http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/444.html) The Hunting of the Snark (http://www.literature.org/authors/carroll-lewis/the-hunting-of-the-snark/) The Duchess' Lullaby (http://ingeb.org/songs/speakrou.html) And, of course, Jabberwocky (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html). Does anyone have stats for a Jabberwock? or A Boojum?
Kinger 08-05-07, 11:36 AM	Take note of your familiar's ability scores. Raven's are wiser than your average... well, any humanoid, really. His greater wisdom and lesser charisma imbued my Raven with a distinct pessimistic streak that he would voice at occasionally inappropriate times.
Symar 08-05-07, 11:44 AM	Stats for a Boojum? Don't need them. Anyone who encounters one will soon vanish, so it doesn't really matter. Hehe.
Bashfull 08-05-07, 12:40 PM	He/she could be terminally pessimistic, or greedy, or bloodthirsty. Not sarcastic, though, because it would irritate the other players. Perhaps a deep-seated hatred of ducks and the entire poultry family? A talent for mimicry and a habit of taunting cats? An alcoholic - now there's a thought. An alcoholic, and a habit, when drunk, of reciting Lewis Carrol. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: So funny! Genius!
Nerdicus 08-05-07, 01:40 PM	I have a player in a game with a raven Familiar who is the comic relief for the group. The player main character is a warforged battle caster with a very no nonsense sort of guy. His raven on the other hand loves to crack jokes and generally **** people off. All in all I find it pretty funny. Often the raven will do all the talking for the warforged who goes for the strong silent type. On another note, I have a character who recently got shot throat the throat and no longer talk. If he had a familiar, it would be a raven or parrot, and it would do all the talking for him. Alas he is not a wizard and does not have a familiar..... But yeah, give your familiar a personality that compliments your main character. And use him as your eyes and ears. Ravens can be found nearly everywhere so it wouldn't look too ridiculous to have one just sitting there watching people. Awsome spy tool!
Edymnion 08-05-07, 09:59 PM	Equip your familiar! So many people forget that they can do that. Honestly, look at it's strength score, and then look at the weight on say, a tiny mithril breastplate. Long as the bird is only at light encumbrance, it can still fly. If nothing else, give it some leather armor (barding), maybe have it missing an eye, and be the hardened old salt thats always suggesting the no nonsense get'r'dun approach, while your character wants to do more of the swashbuckling high adventure approach. Basically, two sides of the same coin. The character is carefree, the familiar (being an extension of it's master) has come to be worrysome and careful, as a sort of balance to the master. You can also look at the Psicrystals from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the way they store personality shards, and use those to build your raven's personality from.
nightside_samurai 08-05-07, 10:54 PM	If he had a familiar, it would be a raven or parrot, and it would do all the talking for him. Alas he is not a wizard and does not have a familiar..... Just remember parrots only make bird noises since their speech is mimicry not a natural sound they make.
Bashfull 08-06-07, 03:59 AM	"Their speech is mimicry, their speech is mimicry, their speech is mimicry.....aaark!" "Shut up, Polly." "Shut up, Polly, shut up, Polly....aaark!" :D
Edymnion 08-06-07, 08:37 AM	Just remember parrots only make bird noises since their speech is mimicry not a natural sound they make.Well, technically so is human speech. We learn to mimic the sounds of those around us, as no one would be speaking english or any other language we know of today naturally. And studies have shown that the smarter birds, like a macaw, are doing more than just mimicking the noises, that they have a basic understanding of speech. Ever seen the discovery channel where they have the macaw that can tell you "little red truck" when you hold up a small red truck toy and ask what it is? Sure, you can call it complex mindless mimickry, but then we get into the same debate as artificial intelligence. Prove to me that YOU aren't just mimicking speech and emotion, as opposed to actually having them?
Nived 08-06-07, 08:51 AM	They key, especially with a raven is to make him his own character, you've already gotten that advice. I remember a wizard in our party had a raven once who had a very memorable moment of role playing in a campaign. After a particularly hard fight everyone was beaten down. When we started looting the corpses the other player said "While you're looking though the pockets of the soldier my raven flies down, lands beside you," He then looked at me, then the table in front of me, then to me tilting his head, "You gonna eat that?" It was late and it had been a dramatic fight, maybe it was the sleep deprivation, or just breaking tention, but the table erupted in laughter. So remember, ravens are carrion eaters, that is dark comedy gold.
Subtle Knife 08-06-07, 08:53 AM	Just remember parrots only make bird noises since their speech is mimicry not a natural sound they make. Actually, studies have shown that parrots, particularly long-lived ones, can have the intellectual capacity of a five-year-old, being able to recognize and identify objects verbally. This is not mimicry; this is learned behavior. Edymnion is right. You cannot prove that you are not simply mimicking your parents'/guardians' verbal patterns. It happens all the time - look at accents! Getting a bit philosophical, though, perhaps we could help the original poster with his/her problem? I agree that the personality of the familiar is an important factor; we have a half-orc Duskblade/Barbarian who gained a Raven Familiar via the Obtain Familiar feat (CArc), who is a serious alcoholic, is greedy (demands a fraction of party treasures, though often only a single coin), and likes to swear in Orcish. SK
nightside_samurai 08-06-07, 11:09 AM	A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) Emphasis mine.
Edymnion 08-06-07, 11:54 AM	Emphasis mine.A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)Emphasis mine. We're talking about a familiar here. Ravens can't normally speak, but the familiar can. Parrots are specifically said to use raven stats as familiars. If we want to get picky with the more real life stuff, the parrot has to be trained to speak in english (or common, whatever). Remember, you have to train humans to speak a language as well.
Esgay 08-06-07, 01:22 PM	Is everyone forgetting that a familiar is a magical beast, you know, magical beast as in griffons and purple worms and such. People also seem to be forgetting that the ability for a raven to speak is a supernatural ability, supernatural as in the thing that lets beholders shoot eye-lasers. I don't think that arguing about the real-world intellegence of mackaws really applies here :p Go nuts with your familiar, give it a broad accent and a tendancy to point out when people are doing something stupid.
nightside_samurai 08-06-07, 02:22 PM	Emphasis mine. We're talking about a familiar here. Ravens can't normally speak, but the familiar can. Parrots are specifically said to use raven stats as familiars. The reason Ravens can talk is that in folklore and fairy tales the Raven was considered a magical creature who was often tricking humans and such. The ability to speak is a reflection of that mythological connection. That being said, I would have the parrot start as a regular bird but require Handle Animal checks throughout it's life to add to it's vocabulary.
Edymnion 08-06-07, 02:36 PM	The reason Ravens can talk is that in folklore and fairy tales the Raven was considered a magical creature who was often tricking humans and such. The ability to speak is a reflection of that mythological connection.And modern folk lore is that parrots can talk. "Poly want a cracker" is so common its cliche. Check the Pirates of the Carribean movies, they feature a parrot that talks throughout the films. The point is though, a normal mundane raven in D&D cannot talk. A normal mundane parrot in D&D cannot talk. A raven familiar can talk. The books specifically say a parrot familiar uses the same stats as a raven, hence it can also talk.
nightside_samurai 08-06-07, 02:38 PM	The books specifically say a parrot familiar uses the same stats as a raven, hence it can also talk. I view it differently but it doesn't matter as long as we're having fun :D
TheKeyofE 08-07-07, 02:12 AM	Basically, two sides of the same coin. The character is carefree, the familiar (being an extension of it's master) has come to be worrysome and careful, as a sort of balance to the master. I tend to play my psicrystals like this, not so much my familiars. But I'm finding that the familiar tends to be forgotten. Can anyone give tips, or links to articles, that can make Lillian the raven a more interesting roleplaying experience for me and the group, please? Part of the reason familiars get forgotten is because it's difficult as a player to jump from being in character with your PC to in character with your familiar, and back and forth. Try having your DM play the familiar as an NPC; the DM is constantly jumping in and out of character as he plays all the NPCs in the campaign, so it might not be as hard for him to roleplay the familiar as it is for you. If you'd rather play the familiar yourself, give it a catchphrase or something it ALWAYS does that both you and the other players will find funny and memorable. The "Are you gonna eat that?" is a good example. If the other players get in on it, it becomes harder to forget that the familiar is there. Another example is my current character, a warforged artificer. He has a weapon familiar from the racial substitution in Races of Eberron, and I got DM permission to make the familiar a Battlefist. The Battlefist talks like a sock puppet, and his catchphrase is thus: anytime a character (or player) says or does something stupid, I put my hand close to the players face and whisper "You suck." The other players loved it, and by the second session of the campaign they would all remember it, and remind ME if I ever forgot.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 08-07-07, 04:58 PM	Btw, TheKeyofE, that warforged with the talking fist is awesome. Consider the idea snagged. Speaking of snagging (and now on topic), Bashfull, I would recommend you take a page from the book of Raz the Rogue Mage (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=687430). Like your character, he's not a particularly devoted mage. He messed up during the ritual that made a ferret his familiar. Raz fragmented off a part of his personality and imbued it in his familiar. So now we have an elf who's incapable of understanding the birds and the bees and a ferret a little too interested in humanoid women. You don't have to go with that exact route, but think about what could be missing. I'll second the "you gonna eat that?" suggestion. Or maybe Lillian has a musical inclination.
Bashfull 08-08-07, 09:18 AM	Right, it's settled. My swashbuckler, mostly moral, high born, perfect manners, lady charmer. Lillian, the gross raven, with great lines like, "You going to eat that?" and, "Which bit do you like best?" Herewith starts a competition: I'm looking for gag lines for Lillian, the (un)musical raven, who always wants to eat the corpses. The winner gets my signature to sing their praises. Something along the lines of: Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi, the greatest poster ever on the Eberron forums, gave me the funniest line ever for my familiar. Oh, he is so witty, he is so funny, it makes me want to polish his dice. Let's have them, clever people. :D :D
Mysticbadger 08-08-07, 11:05 AM	The reason Ravens can talk is that in folklore and fairy tales the Raven was considered a magical creature who was often tricking humans and such. The ability to speak is a reflection of that mythological connection. sorry, corvidae's defensor here... Ravens are able to speak a few words, like parrots but to a lesser extent. Scientifically proved. But they are less trained by people because of their reputation.
Ryoden_Anariavas 08-08-07, 11:06 AM	"Use mace it tenterizes" ;) (mace is a spice (http://www.apinchof.com/mace1097.htm) and a bludgeoning weapon)
Nerdicus 08-08-07, 11:42 AM	"Dibs on the eyes!" "Hey Lady, wanna get beaked?" And let's not forget that nothing is as distracting as having a bird crap on your shoulder. :)
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 08-08-07, 05:56 PM	Ok, here's a few: - "Bombs away!" For when Lillian gets mad at someone. - [wolfish whistle] "How you doing?" "Squack. Pretty girl." "Lilly want some sugar." Admittedly, these would work better if Lillian were a male. Who knows, maybe your swashbuckler didn't properly ID Lillian's gender. That'd be great. More comedy! Lillian probably nags you after every introduction about how he's a male raven, thank you very much. - [belch] "That was tasty." - [when your character is hitting it off well with a woman] "He likes you." "Stay outta my tree when you're K-I-S-S-I-N-G." (sing it). - [during an introduction to a woman] "He's picturing you naked." NEW - [in best Homer Simpson impression] "mmm. . . entrails."
Bashfull 08-09-07, 01:45 PM	Excellent contributions so far! Our session starts in 45 mins, so I'll draw the competition to a close then. Thank you, kind contributors. :D
Bashfull 08-10-07, 06:45 AM	Omnirahk, Nerdicus and Ryoden_Anariavas, as the sole contributors, I'm giving you the sig. Just to let you know, I took Omni's suggestion, and Lillian is a male raven after all (the interplay on that was great, and now my DM wants to play Lillian most of the time). Lillian also took the time to poop on a Watch sergeant who suggested my pet may not be allowed in some of the classier establishments in Sharn (I did point out to Lillian that he may well have meant the Shifter in our party). Lilliant started pecking the eyes out of a hobgoblin corpse before I even got a chance to say anything, thanks to the DM's enthusiasm for him. He was told off, and we are trying to reach some sort of understanding about what he can and can't eat. He did turn down some delicious dolgaunt later in the evening. Anyway, for the next while, my signature will be singing the praises of the above posters. Well done and thanks, people.
Bashfull 08-10-07, 07:06 AM	There you go, fellas.
Nerdicus 08-10-07, 11:33 AM	You're too kind. :embarrass
Edymnion 08-10-07, 01:04 PM	Just for the record, that sig is horrible. Seriously, tone it down... Anywho, just a thought to add to this, try having the raven pester you to get a flaming sword, it wants to try barbeque. :)
Bashfull 08-11-07, 04:25 AM	Thanks for posting the link to the tact filter with your post, mate. :D
NthDegree256 08-11-07, 11:12 AM	Thanks for posting the link to the tact filter with your post, mate. :D I think he has less of an issue with the content of your sig, and more with the GIANT RED LETTERING. Which is a tad annoying. I'm sure none of the people named in the sig would mind if you toned down the effect a little - maybe a little smaller, not such a bright color, etc.
ArcTan 08-13-07, 03:34 PM	Well, technically so is human speech. We learn to mimic the sounds of those around us, as no one would be speaking english or any other language we know of today naturally. And studies have shown that the smarter birds, like a macaw, are doing more than just mimicking the noises, that they have a basic understanding of speech. Ever seen the discovery channel where they have the macaw that can tell you "little red truck" when you hold up a small red truck toy and ask what it is? Sure, you can call it complex mindless mimickry, but then we get into the same debate as artificial intelligence. Prove to me that YOU aren't just mimicking speech and emotion, as opposed to actually having them? This is all irrelevant for familiars, who magically get the ability to speak language just as well as a human can, even if they're not the kind of animal that can normally mimic human speech (say, a toad familiar).
Ryoden_Anariavas 08-14-07, 09:55 AM	;) thanks
cancerousmango 08-15-07, 02:05 AM	LULZ.
Edymnion 08-15-07, 08:00 PM	This is all irrelevant for familiars, who magically get the ability to speak language just as well as a human can, even if they're not the kind of animal that can normally mimic human speech (say, a toad familiar).No they can't. Look at the rules for Familiars. They can only learn to speak with their master and with animals of their kind. At no point does a default familiar ever get the ability to speak a language. That is a special ability reserved only for the Raven (and any familiar that uses the same stats as a raven).