Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kmccoy 04-26-05, 02:10 PM	I just read about feather fall sky warriors and havent heard of them before. what are they and where can I find more info on them, please post.
MarkB 04-26-05, 02:34 PM	They're almost certainly something the author of the Steal This Hook article came up with as a neat idea. Think of them as equivalent to modern-day parachute regiments - soldiers equipped with Feather Fall talismans (Sharn: COT page 170), trained to use them for fast ground-deployment from airships. That's just a guess, though.
Grymar 04-26-05, 02:38 PM	They're almost certainly something the author of the Steal This Hook article came up with as a neat idea. Think of them as equivalent to modern-day parachute regiments - soldiers equipped with Feather Fall talismans (Sharn: COT page 170), trained to use them for fast ground-deployment from airships. That's just a guess, though. Yeah, I thought that was a great idea. I just used them in my campaign, a squad of Warforged Jump Troops jumping from the Argonth to help rescue Ardev from a Droaam assault. I haven't seen any info other than that one article though.
Monk_of_Fallen_Star 04-26-05, 02:41 PM	Unless I am greatly mistaken, the place you 'just read about' Feather Fall sky warriors is in Doug Beyer's most recent Steal This Hook entitled Airship Action. If I am right thus far, then continue, if I am wrong, disregard me and move on. To the best of my knowledge. (And I, being human, am fallible) these Feather Fall Sky Warriors are a concoction of Mr. Beyer's for that Steal This Hook alone, I do not believe there is any Wizards of the Coast sanctioned material on any such organization. That being said, more information on them is as close as your mind. It is safe to assume that what the general concept is troops who would jump off of airships, and plummet towards earth, activating Feather Fall tokens or similar items as the ground neared. They would then engage enemy forces in melee. Assuming that is that they were not ambitious (or stupid) enough to get off a round or two of ranged combat while falling. (Though I am not so sure this is even possible). This would be particularly devastating if said troops were Raging barbarians with feats like Two Weapon Fighting and its accompanying buffers, and Whirlwind Attack. Also Monks with the Monastic Training feat and a level or two in barbarian so they also could Rage. These style of troops would serve as exceptional elite troops, dropped into the midst of enemy formations to wreak havoc with devastating strikes from right amongst the enemies own troops. The other advantage here is the Fast Movement that both barbarians and Monks get, as they could then quickly break off engagement and regroup with fellow sky warriors to form an island of enemy resistance where none should be. They would of course hereafter either require re-enforcement (I refuse to call it rescue, as I imagine said sky warriors would similarly refuse to do (Airborne ooh ra!)) by the remainder of your friendly troops, or Fly so they could escape once their collective Rage's have ended and their vulnerability to being annihilated has gone up several steps. *breathes* All of that being said, I hope you find my rambling helpful on at least one level. Happy Gaming. .
unobserved 04-26-05, 03:13 PM	Also Monks with the Monastic Training feat and a level or two in barbarian so they also could Rage. I know for a fact that monks need to be lawful, and unless I'm mistaken, barbarians need to be Chaotic, and since Lawful Chatotic is not a valid alignment (despite what some of my players may argue), I don't think you can have Monk / Barbarians without some serious rule bending.
Grynn 04-26-05, 03:57 PM	I know for a fact that monks need to be lawful, and unless I'm mistaken, barbarians need to be Chaotic, and since Lawful Chatotic is not a valid alignment (despite what some of my players may argue), I don't think you can have Monk / Barbarians without some serious rule bending. Not exactly right, but close. Monks do have to be Lawful. Barbarians, on the other hand, have to be non-lawful, not specifically chaotic. That means that even Lawful Chaotic is out the door.
Cutlass 04-26-05, 04:03 PM	IIRC the limitations on feather fall tokens are as follows: (1) They are only good for a fall of 60 feet, which means that they have to be activated in the LAST 60 feet of whatever distance you're falling or you are in for problems. (2) The person using the feather fall token to survive a fall from a great height needed to make a DC 10 Wisdom check to make sure that he activated the token at the right time so he could gain the benefit from it that he was expecting to get. From these we can extrapolate that feather fall troops would either: (1) Normally jump from airships that were at roughly 60 feet above ground level or less when they were deploying. (2) May have some sort of feat or skill that aids them with the wisdom check required to successfully activate a feather fall token at the right time. (3) May be using a modified (more expensive) version of the feather fall tokens that would last longer, therefore enabling a safe fall from a higher distance and thus reducing the DC of the wisdom check needed. (4) Potentially suffer casualty rates of about 50% per drop.
Mula 04-26-05, 04:04 PM	I know for a fact that monks need to be lawful, and unless I'm mistaken, barbarians need to be Chaotic, and since Lawful Chatotic is not a valid alignment (despite what some of my players may argue), I don't think you can have Monk / Barbarians without some serious rule bending. Start out as a Monk, lawful alignment of course. Then take level/s in Barbarian and become chaotic or neutral something. You're an ex-Monk but still retain all your Monk abilities. Monastic Training is useless, though, since becoming non-lawful prevents you from taking levels of Monk anyway.
JohnnyONeal 04-26-05, 04:06 PM	I know for a fact that monks need to be lawful, and unless I'm mistaken, barbarians need to be Chaotic, and since Lawful Chatotic is not a valid alignment (despite what some of my players may argue), I don't think you can have Monk / Barbarians without some serious rule bending.It also wouldn't be a great flavor fit for Eberron. I really like the idea, though. Perhaps some barbarian/scouts could fill the same role!
unobserved 04-26-05, 05:02 PM	(4) Potentially suffer casualty rates of about 50% per drop. Hypothetically speaking, if one were to activate a feather fall token at say 80 feet above ground instead of 60 feet, surely after feather falling for 60 feet you would not resume your previous velocity for the remaining 20 feet. Therefore, it may be safe to assume that activating the token at 80 feet would only result in 2d6 damage (or less based on successful tumble checks, etc). Perhaps a table like the following might work: DC 10 Wisdom Check to activate at 60 feet ================================= Made at DC 10 - Activated at 60 feet Failed by 1 or 2 - Activated at 70 feet (10 foot fall - 1d6 ) Failed by 3 or 4 - Activated at 80 feet (20 foot fall - 2d6 ) Failed by 5 or 6 - Activated at 90 feet (30 foot fall - 3d6 ) Failed by 7 or 8 - Activated at 100 feet (40 foot fall - 4d6 ) Failed by 9 or 10 - Activated at 110 feet ( 50 foot fall - 5d6 ) And maybe in situation where you're trying to get as close to the ground as possible as fast as possible, the following table could be used. DC 20 Wisdom Check to activate at 10 feet ================================= Made at DC 20 - Activated at 10 feet Failed by 1 or 2 - Activated at 20 feet Failed by 3 or 4 - Activated at 30 feet Failed by 5 or 6 - Activated at 40 feet Failed by 7 or 8 - Activated at 50 feet Failed by 9 or more - Did not activate in time :(
garner_adam 04-26-05, 05:05 PM	This is a great idea. I'll definitaley be adding some thing like this to one of my next sessions. Oh Cutlass thanks for the break down although isn't it for every ten foot fall it's a d6 damage up to a maximum of 20d6 for terminal velocity? With the tumble DC 15 to negate the first ten feet of "falling" and make the second ten feet 1d6 non lethal I believe an elite squad (or dare I say platoon) of monks (4ranks +1dex +3skillfocusfeat) could make higher jumps perhaps even up to a total of eighty to one hundred feet. Seeing as to how they already have the feather fall token would it be unreasonable to think that this team might have a healing potion so they could make a longer fall? Although... couldn't they just climb down ropes at 40 feet a round instead? :confused: (Players hand book page 69)
Siran Dunmorgan 04-26-05, 05:36 PM	Also Monks with the Monastic Training feat and a level or two in barbarian so they also could Rage.I know for a fact that monks need to be lawful, and unless I'm mistaken, barbarians need to be Chaotic, and since Lawful Chaotic is not a valid alignment (despite what some of my players may argue), I don't think you can have Monk / Barbarians without some serious rule bending. Hellcow has suggested—albeit I'm pretty sure he was joking at the time—a feat called "Savage Discipline" that would allow an exception to the alignment restriction for the Barbarian class; the idea was to combine it with Monastic Training specifically to allow Barbarian/Monks. It was in one of the "Errors in Races of Eberron" threads; if the search function was working, I'd find the link. The discussion had to do with one of the illustrations that portrayed a raging shifter monk. —Siran Dunmorgan P.S. The proposed feat would also allow Barbarian/Paladins, now that I think about it... and those would be very appropriate to the Maruk Ghaash'kala tribe of the Demon Wastes. Hellcow may be on to something here.
Cutlass 04-26-05, 05:37 PM	Actually, it was unobserved who came up with the table for the damage suffered as the result of a failed wisdom check :) I guess he's just living up to his handle ;) While I could quibble with it a little, it's actually a pretty good table, and I will probably end up stealing it for my own use. For right now I'll just make the comment that in military parlance the term "casualty" does not necessarily mean "fatality." Given that Eberron is a relatively low level setting overall, having 50% of your troops fail their wisdom save and take an average of 3d6 damage might not mean that they're dead, but they also might not be that much use in a serious fight. A lot of healing resources could get drained down rather quickly tending to that problem.
MarkB 04-26-05, 05:58 PM	As I recall, featherfall talismans only operate for six seconds, and the wisdom check is required in order to ensure that you do it in the lastsix seconds of the fall, or close enough not to take damage from accelerating again after it cuts out. Presumably, this is why Featherfall Sky Warriors need training - so that they can do this reliably, right on time, in all weathers and even in the dark. Either that or they spring for the full-price talisman that casts the spell properly instead of limiting it to six seconds (by the item creation rules, there's no real justification for the time limit).
unobserved 04-26-05, 06:08 PM	Actually, it was unobserved who came up with the table for the damage suffered as the result of a failed wisdom check :) I guess he's just living up to his handle ;) While I could quibble with it a little, it's actually a pretty good table, and I will probably end up stealing it for my own use. :) I think another table might be appropriate in between 10 feet and 60 feet, and I'd put that at about 30 feet (DC 15), with appropriate +/- feet on either side, a little more on why in a minute. I've had a couple more ideas. A couple of feats that may be appropriate for Feather Fall Sky Warriors. Free Fall Expertise You have become adept at judging the distance to the ground as you free fall. Prerequisites: Dex 13, Must have jumped from great heights to the ground and landed successfully with the use of a Feather Fall Talisman at least once. Benefit: When attempting to make a Wisdom based check to determine when to activate a Feather Fall Talisman, you may add +3 to your roll. Also, under clear skies and daylight you may take 10 on a Feather Fall Talisman activation. At night, or under adverse conditions you may not take 10, and instead must rely on your training. Normal: You may normally not take 10 on any checks while under pressure. Special: This feat can be taken multiple times, each time it is taken the +3 bonus stacks (+6, +9, etc). Free Fall Shot You have learned to shoot ranged weapons while under the effects of a Feather Fall spell or Talisman. Prerequisites: Feather Fall Expertise, Precise Shot Benefit: You can make ranged attacks as normal while falling. Normal: Feather fall decreases your falling speed to 60 feet/round which would normally count against your movement as you regain you bearings during freefall. Special: Keep in mind, while falling, your target may have less (or more) cover or concealment then they present to troops on the ground. Free Fall Tumble You can react immediately after landing from a Feather Fall Prerequisites: Free Fall Expertise, Lightning Reflexes Benefit: When falling a distance of 30 feet or less to the ground you may perform a single standard action (or move action) immediately upon landing. (This includes a 5 foot step, so attack, 5 foot step & attack, or move type actions). Normal:When completing a feather fall you can not react again until your turn in the next round. Special:If you make a DC 20 Wisdom check to activate a feather fall token within 10 feet of the ground you may perform a single standard or move action as normal, however, if you suceed at a DC 15 Tumble check in addition to the Wisdom check you may instead perform a Full-Round action as if you have ignored the entire process of landing. Comments, suggestions?
MarkB 04-26-05, 06:22 PM	Comments, suggestions? Nice. Very specialised, but nice. I'd make a couple of alterations to the first feat. Firstly, include a DEX prerequisite (let's say 13), to represent the agility needed to reliably orient yourself to see the ground approaching - I'd see professional Sky Warriors as being pretty agile. And second, note that normally a character may take 10 on the wisdom check if not under pressure, and then add the ability to take 10 even whilst under pressure as a benefit of the feat. That eliminates the nasty casualty rates, except under conditions which would add to the Wisdom check DC, such as rain, fog or darkness.
unobserved 04-26-05, 06:38 PM	Nice. Very specialised, but nice. I don't think I can imagine very many PC's taking these feats. I mean, I suppose it's possible in a specialized campaign, but I will certainly be using them to build a couple of NPC's. I'd make a couple of alterations to the first feat. Firstly, include a DEX prerequisite (let's say 13), to represent the agility needed to reliably orient yourself to see the ground approaching - I'd see professional Sky Warriors as being pretty agile. And second, note that normally a character may take 10 on the wisdom check if not under pressure, and then add the ability to take 10 even whilst under pressure as a benefit of the feat. That eliminates the nasty casualty rates, except under conditions which would add to the Wisdom check DC, such as rain, fog or darkness. I like it, I've included your suggestions in the feat descriptions. And since I can't find a chart for weather conditions at the moment, would the following be safe to assume. Weather Conditions ======================= Light Rain / Snow / Fog.... +2 DC Heavy Rain / Snow / Fog.. +4 DC Lighting Conditions ======================= Evening....................... +1 DC Night - Moonlit ............ +3 DC Night - Pitch Black ....... +8 DC
PlasmaBunny 04-26-05, 06:40 PM	Those feats might work better compounded together into one tactical feat. The limited application doesn't seem like something someone would invest an entire feat tree into.
Cutlass 04-26-05, 06:56 PM	Lighting conditions would have to be further modified depending on the type of vision that the character had. Standard vision, use table as written. Low light vision, at least -4 to DC (maybe even as much as -6), but only to offset the penalties caused by the lighting conditions. Dark vision, what lighting conditions? In this case dwarves and other races with 60 foot darkvision would get a bonus because they would know to activate the talisman as soon as they could see the ground clearly through their darkvision ability.
ewancummins 04-26-05, 07:18 PM	Someone mentioned climbing DOWN ropes intead of feather falling. Why climb when you can fast rope it? Just slide down the rope like you would a firehouse pole[ both hands, both feet on rope , standing position]. Just before hitting the bottom, drop into a crouch . Instantly tumble out of the way ,as the next man slides down the rope .Have to stop before that ? Lock in by ''teardropping''[ basically , flipping upside down and going into a fetal position, feet firmly clenching the rope]. I have done this from both a 35' tower and a helicopter about the same height off the ground. Of course, you do have to get a bit closer to the ground to use this method of insertion... It would be cheaper than amulets ,and the chance of injury to the troops is lower.
Cutlass 04-26-05, 07:26 PM	That makes sense to me. I would just add the prerequisite that the people doing that have 4 ranks in climb and at least 1 rank in use rope. Otherwise with insufficient training there would be a chance they could injure temselves.
Restless 04-26-05, 11:03 PM	Well, 1st and most importantly, Featherfall Troops are so much cooler than...rope sliding troops, IMO. 2nd, I'm not very sure about this, having no experience and may be wrong, but it seems like it be unsafe and unpractical to use a rope for really long drops, which explains why we have parachutes, insted of rope. Besides, imagine the ropeburn, not to mention the wind. Also, tumbleing to the ground after a 300 ft drop, even with rope burning your gloves/hands and pants/legs the entire way down to slow you, isn't a great idea. Then again, maybe I'm just misinformed. But imagine this. A group of Featherfall Troops, w/ and artificer of course, whose armor is enchented with Hide or Shadow or whatever, protected with Protection from Arrows, and armed with Necklaces of Fireball, or Eternal Fireball wands. Sounds almost like a Blitzkreig. Sounds very cool, IMO.
Monk_of_Fallen_Star 04-27-05, 01:04 AM	That would be the whole point of (i) Feather Fall (/i) Sky Warriors it would seem to me. Imagine with me if you will, that a Brigade (Roughly 2000 combat troops) of Karnnathi Undead is clashing with a similar size force of Valenar Elves. And as it seems the Valenar contingent is taking the upper hand a Karrnathi Airship drops out of the clouds and say, even one platoon (Ten troops, plus a commander) comes (i) Feather Falling (/i) over the side, firing off fireballs and dropping alchemical items, like acid, fire, spark and frost, while firing quarrels from repeating crossbows... that is a significant assault to suddenly have come raining down on your head. Now, assuming that this platoon is comprised of Human Fighters of a level to have Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, Whirlwind Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave. When those buggers hit the ground, the Valenar are suddenly going to find themselves in a world of hurt and yesterday. That is the essence of the Lightning War. This is not even considering that there might be other troopers on the Airship who might continue to fire arrows and rain alchemical death on the Valenar. Disclaimer: Whether or not the scenario described above is likely or possible, it is the idea behind it that counts. Feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but do so in your own head.
Kaverael 04-27-05, 07:10 PM	If they were from the Eldeen Reaches would they be Airbourne Rangers?
Lord Kell 04-28-05, 02:58 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that airborne troops in RL are almost never deployed directly into combat. The chaos and scatter of a drop seriously interferes with unit coherence and their combat effectiveness. Think about it. If you're deploying in the middle of battle, you are horribly exposed as you fall. Not to mention your enemy will see you coming AND where you're going to land. These feather fall warriors would be deployed ahead of the main line of advance, and often behind enemy lines. Even then, you could have two different types. One would be like America's 82nd and 101st Airborne. Infantry troops that deploy by air. The second type would be special forces that deploy behind enemy lines in small groups of 10-15. So I don't think you'd see a unit of Karrn skeletons dropping on an elf formation in battle. However, dropping them behind the elven lines, and attacking from the rear after the battle starts would work quite well. It's just tactical flanking using the 3rd dimension to maneuver.