Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMAC 10-30-05, 01:49 AM	Hi, haven't had any Eberron work to post in a while but I was sketching tonight and started messing with this design for a "female" paladin or cleric: http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf.jpg I might do something a little more "finished" with it, time permitting.
Crimsonsun 10-30-05, 01:00 AM	o_O Wow... thats really good! Wish I could draw Tash that well... :(
Wycen the Clueless 10-30-05, 01:37 AM	That is actually cool, I like it. The flame emblem on the crest of her head makes me think she's got something to do with the Silver Flame however. Not sure if you meant that or not.
Saurenda 10-30-05, 04:30 AM	Groove. And Shameless plug http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=522407
Straylight 10-30-05, 04:46 AM	Nice. The facial structure looks a little... long, I think is the word, but that might just be the hood-thing she's got on. I'm still not particularly fond of any of the ideas for a female-build Warforged. I think they might create a main chassis that was suggestive of a female form, but not one so obvious as any of the (now three) examples we've seen so far. For the best example of a chassis that is suggestive of a feminine shape, anyone remember Arcee from Transformers? Google "Arcee" and check out the pictures that come up if you haven't got a reference on-hand. That style is what I'd like to see done for a feminine-form Warforged. But, hell, this is DMAC art, so I'm just commentin', not complainin'.
Lurkalot 10-30-05, 05:43 AM	It's good. If you want minor advice though, you've had trouble with the lips / mouth. The perspective is off on them and I'm not sure that a Warforged should have such big lips anyway. I'd shorten the face by taking in the chin a lot. It could be half-the width it currently is. Nice concept and artwork though. Good proportions on the body.
Galahad_Knight 10-30-05, 07:05 AM	Very nice. You should check out that thread Saurenda posted, other eerron fanartists. That is actually cool, I like it. The flame emblem on the crest of her head makes me think she's got something to do with the Silver Flame however. Not sure if you meant that or not. Read the riginal post, it's a drawing of a WF paladin or cleric, so I think the silver flame hood orniment was intentional
jknevitt 10-30-05, 11:22 AM	Hi, haven't had any Eberron work to post in a while but I was sketching tonight and started messing with this design for a "female" paladin or cleric: http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf.jpg I might do something a little more "finished" with it, time permitting. I just want you to know that all your stuff is great. I use pretty much all of it as visual aids in my Eberron campaign.
Joni-san 10-30-05, 11:26 AM	Hi, haven't had any Eberron work to post in a while but I was sketching tonight and started messing with this design for a "female" paladin or cleric: http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf.jpg I might do something a little more "finished" with it, time permitting. Pretty nice, although I agree with the opinions above, there is something about the face... :blink: In any case, thanks for dropping by. :) BTW I checked your gallery a few days ago and IIRC there were art-pieces missing. Any idea why? :confused:
DMAC 10-30-05, 10:16 PM	Pretty nice, although I agree with the opinions above, there is something about the face... :blink: In any case, thanks for dropping by. :) BTW I checked your gallery a few days ago and IIRC there were art-pieces missing. Any idea why? :confused: Thanks for the feedback and suggestions everyone. This was really just a "quick" sketch that I thought was cool enough to post so there are definitely a few things I'd change for a final version. I'll be sure to post it here if I do one. As far as the pieces missing from my gallery, there is a second page of older work that I add or remove depending on how busy my site is in order to conserve bandwidth. It can be found here: http://www.darrencalvert.com/imagesb.htm Definitely cool to hear that people are using my Eberron stuff in their campaigns. :thumbsup:
Thwyvylyn 10-30-05, 10:35 PM	You sir have a disturbed mind but that's par for the course with all the truely talented artists I am familiar with. :cookie: for the talent
DMAC 10-30-05, 10:46 PM	:cookie: for the talent Is that because of these? http://www.yodaboys.com/bears.jpg :devil:
Saurenda 10-31-05, 01:01 AM	Is that because of these? http://www.yodaboys.com/bears.jpg :devil: :inlove: Bears =3
anarco_rata 10-31-05, 07:42 AM	whoaaa...really good drawing! however, i agree with the idea that warforged weren't build in those kinds of bodyes. They where made to fight, why make them more fragile? besides, the creators had no way of knowing if the warforged was going to be born with male or female personality. They bodies should be sexless. Looking at that warforged make sme think that some one for house canith has really messed up tastes. REALLY messed up.
DMAC 10-31-05, 08:05 AM	Well, this would probably be a post-war "upgrade", requested by the warforged to reflect her personality.
DMAC 11-08-05, 10:47 PM	Pencils for a full-body shot of the female warforged. I made some changes to the... chestal region. http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf2.jpg
jknevitt 11-08-05, 10:51 PM	Pencils for a full-body shot of the female warforged. I made some changes to the... chestal region. http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf2.jpg I like this version much better. You could even go for the "flat-chested" look and still have it seem feminine by keeping the rest of the style (head, arms, etc) you have here. Not fond of the "helm" look, though.
Edymnion 11-08-05, 10:56 PM	I still prefer Hiryuu's rendition of a "female" Warforged. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/12780713/
DMAC 11-08-05, 11:28 PM	Really? You prefer the one you worked on over mine? Are you sure? :confused:
Edymnion 11-08-05, 11:49 PM	Yup, I worked on it because I liked it so much. If I see one I like as much or more than that one, I'll color it too :D
Galahad_Knight 11-08-05, 11:57 PM	No offense meant, but Edy's looks a bit too much like a 10 year old for my tastes. That's not to say it doesn't make sense, or isn't well drawn, just that I don't like how it looks as much as the other one.
Straylight 11-09-05, 12:01 AM	Pencils for a full-body shot of the female warforged. I made some changes to the... chestal region. http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf2.jpg MUUUUUCH nicer this time around. The changes to the upper torso and the facial structure make for a much more believable look, and she probably more closely resembles a "proper" Warforged now than in the original shot (this is a good thing). I'm still not all that fond of the hood... thing, but it still works. :cookie: for the DMAC.
Galahad_Knight 11-09-05, 12:06 AM	I think it's appropriate for a paladin. To me it invokes a nun's wimple or a monk's hood. If it were just a fighter it might not work as well, but for a paladin, I think it looks appropriate.
Euangelion 11-09-05, 12:30 PM	Pencils for a full-body shot of the female warforged. I made some changes to the... chestal region. http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf2.jpg Very nice. Elegant, but deadly. Edy/Hiryuu's would work better as a female-personality warforged scout than as a standard warforged, IMHO. But all are lightyears beyond what I could do, so who am I to say anything?
HexCore 11-09-05, 04:42 PM	It looks great I really do like the Second one I have to agree with Galahad_Knight All it needs is a ruler to put terror in to the Hearts of Children dam penguins ;) Also to the Anti-Female Warforged Lobby. I submit that House Canith was in the Business of making Warforged for a Profit. If Some High Lady wanted a Platoon of Warforged To protect her that were not So ”Brutish" I am sure that Canith Would be able to Make it happen.
lukelightning 11-09-05, 04:46 PM	It's not clear how much control Cannith had over the development of warforged. And the rules explicitly state they are not gendered physically. And there is no reason to give a construct human sexual body parts. Also to the Anti-Female Warforged Lobby. I submit that House Canith was in the Business of making Warforged for a Profit. If Some High Lady wanted a Platoon of Warforged To protect her that were not So ”Brutish" I am sure that Canith Would be able to Make it happen.
Edymnion 11-09-05, 06:23 PM	No offense meant, but Edy's looks a bit too much like a 10 year old for my tastes.Well, thats good, actually. The warforged are supposed to be androgenous, not displaying any overt gender signals one way or the other. If this one looks like a 10 year old girl, then thats good. Its SUPPOSED to be small nods at gender, not a full on Hookerbot 5000 like the infamous Sharn illustration. A female WF should follow that principle, IMO. It should look androgynous for the most part, with hints at it leaning towards the female side. Just like a male WF should be androgynous leaning towards the male side.And there is no reason to give a construct human sexual body parts.Dangly bits, no. But we do know that the WF can change their own appearance over time to reflect it's personality. The juggernaught grows spikes, he doesn't get them installed. The ReForged loses his plate, he doesn't have it removed. I at least allow a WF to change to reflect things like gender over time. No WF was created with a female body, and none ever will be. But over the years and decades, a female personality WF would begin to change form to reflect that.
HexCore 11-09-05, 08:32 PM	I have to disagree it's clear that Cannith had a large amount of control over the creation of the Warforged. They built the Forged from the core out Sniped from the Dragonshard The Warforged are made using a blend of materials. The core of a Warforged is a frame formed from wood, stone, or metal. The Skeletal Structure of the forged is crafted; it can be built to be A Normal Warforged, Warforged Titan, Warforged Scout, and Warforged Charger Bundles of rootlike fibers surround the core and serve as the muscles of the construct. The musculature is added anything from huge brawny Fighter to Lithe Scout Plates of steel and wood are fused over this layer of tendrils, forming the hard outer shell of the Warforged. The precise appearance and construction of the body depends on the model of the warforged, as represented by its initial feats. The outer Plating of the Forged its skin. What the World will see and judge it by. This is when Cannith can make it look like anything they want it to. Warforged are constructs and as such they can be made to the Creators whim. This does not even go into the issue that A Warforged grows over time. But why would Cannith make a Warforged that looked like a Female? Aside from being paid too...pleasing to the eye...Female Artificer with an axe to grind. Why does a Sword Smith Engrave a blade add Gilt anything but a plan crosspiece and Pommel? And yes they rules do state they are gender Neutral in appearance. But they also say to pick Gender Personality and Stick with it. I am not saying any were made just that they could have been made. In closing not a full on Hookerbot 5000 Some of us are reading this at work and Gales of laughter get strange looks from the other Cube monkeys :D PS sorry for the massive therd derailment :( It's not clear how much control Cannith had over the development of warforged. And the rules explicitly state they are not gendered physically. And there is no reason to give a construct human sexual body parts.
Edymnion 11-09-05, 09:51 PM	I have to disagree it's clear that Cannith had a large amount of control over the creation of the Warforged.Not really. Just because the WF are complex does not imply that Cannith had control over all of those variables. The core of a WF is identical, reguardless of body feat. They all come out of the forges looking exactly the same, because they all have the same design. Only thing that changes is how much armor gets put on them, and what that armor is made out of. To use a computer example, just because I know how to change the skins on my operating system does not mean I know how to write the operating system, or that I know how to go in and change it's error handling routines. I can plug in a differant video card, but that doesn't mean I know how to build the video cards in the first place. Thats about how the WF are. They found the schema for 'em in Xen'Drik, they brought it back, plugged it in, and out popped a WF going "Who the frell are you?". They can change a few things, but by and large they cannot change the base form of the Warforged. Some of us are reading this at work and Gales of laughter get strange looks from the other Cube monkeys :D:rofl:
Galahad_Knight 11-09-05, 10:27 PM	Personally, I don;t care how much or little control Cannith had in manufacturing WF, or if there was any reason for big metal boobies. WF bodies grow and change (WF Jugger, various WF feats, level based stat bonuses), and they can be modified. If a female personality WF wants ot have big metal boobies, she can get them. I'd imagine there's even a nice little niche for WF "Body Shops" that specialize in magical enhancements as well as cosmetic alterations. The Wf are a new race desperately seeking an identity, and a lot of them just want to fit in. Doesn't matter how they were made, if they want to look different it can be made to happen That said, I think the WF paladin depicted above was very tastefully done, and not overdone. She's female *shaped* but not nessecarily female looking. Note the monoboobie. And, she;s still intimidating.
Edymnion 11-09-05, 10:35 PM	Yeah, but I think its the cowl that keeps throwing me. I just keep going back to that and thinking it looks out of place. But thats just me.
DMAC 11-09-05, 11:02 PM	Yeah, I don't know if the "cowl" will survive to the final drawing. It was in my initial doodle that inspired the piece and I've had a hard time letting go. I guess I liked the sort of "nun-like" look of it and I imagined the character as a sort of cleric/battlefield healer rather than just a generic female warforged. I'll post the doodle if I can find it. My feeling about the "female" warforged is that there are plenty of reasons why you could have a body style that isn't "neutral" or male. The biggest one is that they were built by humans who are used to relating to people based on gender. If you have this hulking killing machine with a strong feminine personality, it's going to be somewhat... offputting. Also, I think that, especially with the Warforged aquiring sentience and starting to develop distinct personalities, it makes sense for them to have themselves customized to project outwardly the way they see themselves. Anyway, here's another non-female and more cartoony warforged I drew tonight: http://www.darrencalvert.com/toonforged.jpg
Edymnion 11-09-05, 11:07 PM	Heh, cool, very cartoony. I can SO see this guy running at the screen with a big hammer over his head like he was about to slam you, with the classic anime starburst behind him showing that he's running forwards.
Galahad_Knight 11-09-05, 11:23 PM	LOL, cute. Personally, I like the 'cowl' the nun effect was not lost on me.
taski 11-10-05, 04:07 AM	I've got no problem with female-shaped warforged, and I go by the theory that WFs can slowly grow to fit their identity. If they see themselves as female, they will start looking vaguely female. However, I'm just now realizing that not all females of the common races are shaped the same... Compare the elf and the half-orc. The female elf's face is no more dainty than the male elf's (both belonging to a dainty race), while the female half-orc's face is no less blocky than the male half-orc's (both of a blocky race). Looking at the PHB's pictures, I think the only thing that clearly seperates the common races' males and females is the absence or presence boobs, and the prominence or smoothness of muscles. Hips don't seem as important, as the elf female barely has any, certainly not noticibly more than the elf male. As for the personality aspect of gender, I don't see any common thread in the PHB races... Are men more agressive? Are women more socially astute? The female half-orc and male half-elf indicate otherwise. When a warforged identifies with a gender, just what are they identifying with? I suppose it could be as simple as which Cannith artificer they liked better when they came out of the forge, or as complex as which symbols they think of when trying to understand the biological differences between males and females. I don't think Cannith would really encourage warforged to choose genders, as most in Cannith saw warforged as barely sentient magical devices. Perhaps some artificers wanted to "humanize" the warforged, but that may have been seen as a lonely artificer trying to make imaginary friends.. and confusing a batch of warforged in the process. I don't think warforged absolutely must choose a gender. Changelings are physically genderless, many of them mentally as well. Perhaps a warforged might identify with the Reality Seekers, or independantly adopt a philosophy of not thinking itself to be anything other than it is. So I let warforged be genderless, but I also don't mind when they identify with a gender, as long as I get an explaination of why. Anyway, cool pictures. I like the cowel in the second picture, though it does look like it could be awkward for her to turn her head if that thing is all metal. Still, she definately looks like a warforged.
Euangelion 11-10-05, 12:11 PM	To really answer the question as to what makes a warforged relate to one gender more than the other would greatly depend on how the cultures that the warforged is in contact with believes about gender roles and identity. Since we don't really have any information about that by and large (bits and pieces here and there, like with the Dhakaani), it's really up to the DM. You could say that the warforged is motherly towards others, but who's to say that in Eberron fathers don't take the bulk of the role of raising children? But it's hard to go wrong with following our culture's attitudes for the most part with the occassional wrinkle added for flavor. As long as we stay away from "My warforged has a female personality because she likes to shop" or some other dumb*ss thing like that, we'll be fine. However, one could look at the way that men and women stereotypically shop and apply it to adventuring. Male-personality warforged: "Once we're in the Vile Keep of Duraash'vak, we're just going to get the Cursed Idol of Pain, and then leave!" Female-personality warforged: "Are you kidding? There's a ton of other things to see in there! We're going to explore the whole place and come out with our bags of holding overflowing with treasure. Besides, I've heard rumors that there's a store of components in there and I'm looking for new Traction Claws."
polt 11-10-05, 12:26 PM	I actually like DMAC's alot better than Ediminions. I think the style is much cooler, and if a warforged looked female, it'll probably look like that.
Malicant 11-10-05, 04:14 PM	Female 'forged. Yeah, why not. But still, there are some things about the 'works, that are pretty disturbing to me. Something just looking wrong, if you get what I mean. If not, move on, citizen, nothing to see in this post :D DMAC's pic looks good, but the lips and the cheeks are strange. Not I don't think, female 'foged should have that kind of lips at all. And the cheeks should be a littleless... yeah, dunno how to describe. She reminds me of Patrik Swayze in To Wong Fuu. Damn, I'm horrible at describing what I want to tell you... bah, anyways... Edy's pic is more feminine in my opinion, but the Head is slightly too big IMO. And the feet... ARGH, it's the feet! But that's no big deal, it's no fun to draw feet. They are worse then Hands. What was I talking about? Ah, it's a damn fine coat you're wearing... Cheerio!
Edymnion 11-10-05, 04:19 PM	Changelings are physically genderless, many of them mentally as well.No they aren't. Changlings have an inherent gender when they are born. They can become any gender they want, and many would likely have a genderless mentality (or, more appropriately, the ability to assume either gender role as needed), but if a Changling reverts to it's natural form, its going to have the appropriate dangly bits.
The Brat Prince 11-10-05, 04:37 PM	To add a little Gender Theory to the mix here, I'm just gonna say how i feel about the concept of gender in general. Gender is typically viewed in sociological circles as a mental construction. That is, your physical shape has only the most basic impact on your mental gender. You can be physically male and still view your gender as female, thus being a Transgendered individual. That said, gender's much more abstract than having typically "male" or "female" personality traits. I'm physically male and my mental gender is male, but i hate sports and love to shop. In relation to the 'forged, i can see this working in a similar way. A warforged may just feel that he's male. It could have nothing to do with the way he acts or interacts with others, he just thinks of himself as a man. Granted, our gender does impact our social interactions and i would expect no less of a 'forged, but i still say that it doesn't really have to be justified why a warforged is the gender they chose. Hope that made some kind of sense, it's been a long day and my brain hurts.
makeshiftwings 11-10-05, 04:52 PM	To add a little Gender Theory to the mix here, I'm just gonna say how i feel about the concept of gender in general. Gender is typically viewed in sociological circles as a mental construction. That is, your physical shape has only the most basic impact on your mental gender. You can be physically male and still view your gender as female, thus being a Transgendered individual. That said, gender's much more abstract than having typically "male" or "female" personality traits. I'm physically male and my mental gender is male, but i hate sports and love to shop. In relation to the 'forged, i can see this working in a similar way. A warforged may just feel that he's male. It could have nothing to do with the way he acts or interacts with others, he just thinks of himself as a man. Granted, our gender does impact our social interactions and i would expect no less of a 'forged, but i still say that it doesn't really have to be justified why a warforged is the gender they chose. Hope that made some kind of sense, it's been a long day and my brain hurts. I agree... when reading the book I got the feeling that all warforged looked like the illustrations (mostly masculine), but that some just decided they were different genders. I don't think their actual physical form would have much of anything to do with it. If a warforged came out of the forge with lumps on its chest and a skinny waist, humanoids might refer to it as "she", and thus it would begin thinking of itself as female, but I don't think it was implied in the book that that's what happened, or that for some reason Cannith was purposely making some look male and some look female. That said, I do love the art! Very cool.
DMAC 11-10-05, 05:49 PM	DMAC's pic looks good, but the lips and the cheeks are strange. Not I don't think, female 'foged should have that kind of lips at all. And the cheeks should be a littleless... I'm assuming you're talking about the original sketch, not the update I posted: http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf2.jpg
Malicant 11-10-05, 07:42 PM	Now that's what I'm talking about. I just wonder, why I haven't seen this before. Blind as well as retarded, he? :rolleyes: Sleep... overrated... *snore* Look! There! *disappers* P.S.: Good work. Keep it up.
il Kav 11-10-05, 08:12 PM	Darren, thank you for your amazing work! About the "female shaped wf question", I think she's beautiful... But I think that if she was built to be an effective warrior, she should have broader shoulders... just my opinion by the way, your artworks are beautiful...
Joni-san 11-11-05, 04:38 PM	Pencils for a full-body shot of the female warforged. I made some changes to the... chestal region. http://www.darrencalvert.com/femalewf2.jpg Nice, although I don't know what to think about the hood... :blink: Anyway, here's another non-female and more cartoony warforged I drew tonight: http://www.darrencalvert.com/toonforged.jpg That one is just plain cool :D. When are you adding it to the gallery? :)
Gishsarath 11-12-05, 01:09 PM	I really like the second picture of the warforged. Good job.
TheShark(tm) 11-15-05, 10:51 AM	DMAC - you really ought to post your picture of Scrap. I have to say that I am incredibly (!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: !!!) proud of your depiction of my character. Your ability to put an illustration together quickly with just a brief description is astounding!
Durmald 11-15-05, 11:15 AM	If a warforged manages to accumulate enough wealth we/she can improve their shape to match their own mental gender. :rolleyes: And of course I can think in some artificers making interesting female shaped bodies for some disturbing reasons :eek: (why I’m thinking in cyber marionette J, or a Frankenstein story with happy ending, :banghead: by the flame). :thinks: Also I don’t think that all warforged are made big and strong, the stereotypical killing machine, maybe some were made for other purposes like servitude or laboratory aide, some for archery instead of infantry or as magical support. By the way nice drawings :ayyyy!:
DMAC 11-15-05, 11:43 AM	The debate continues. :) This is the piece TheShark(tm) was talking about, a warforged sorcerer made up of a combination of pieces from other warforged bodies: http://www.darrencalvert.com/scraprough.jpg Still working on it but most of the elements are there.
dang 11-15-05, 12:13 PM	i think we're ignoring something here... we're all assuming that current 'forged are androgynous, but every published picture really shows male secondary sexual characteristics. e.g. broad shoulders. there's no reason for a construct to have broad shoulders (other than intimidation). physiologically, broad shoulders only makes room for neck muscles, which aren't all that useful in battle, outside of head-butting. :) one the other hand, a larger breast area *does* make sense -- fulfilling no mammary function, it's simply more room for the "rootlike" muscle fibers of the pectoral. so, why not conceive of a forged made for close-quarters urban fighting which displaces muscles to an expanded chest? Add that to a mithral body (which is "leaner" and more "flexible" according WF dragonshard 1). as for voice, don't they often get the voice of the individual maker? so, i'm sure there are both slim models and hulking titans with the ringing soprano voices of some Cannith heir. then for personality, didn't mr. baker write that we don't know for sure where their souls (if they have them) come from? if souls can be intrinsically female, there you go. if not, there are transgendered human communities, so why can't 'forged feel a certain gender (especially since they weren't even made with one)? it would make for an interesting character -- a 'forged in transition mentally/physically! lastly, it has been suggested that slimmer bodies would be more fragile. this is not necessarily so. think of two pipes with equal wall thickness, but diffferent diameters. is one easier to dent? (hint: no). just my opinion, ~dang p.s. read "city of towers" if you don't think female personality warforged exist.