Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ranger of the north 02-11-07, 09:48 PM	I'm trying to think of a way to put an organization like the Judge Magisters from Final Fantasy 12 into Eberron. Here's what I've got so far: Thrane: A new group of specially ordained warriors who interpret the laws of Thrane with an iron fist. Though Jaela opposes this group, her slow loss of influence has been the cause of this group's appearance. General power level would be about 3rd to 12th, maybe with a 13th or 14th level leader. or Karrnath: A group of Karrnathi knights that are unofficially recognized by the most powerful warlords of the country. They generally interpret law in a style favoring martial law. Most of them are simply warmongers, supported by the warlords, but some truly believe they are helping Karrnath back to glory. General power level would be about 2nd to 10th, with a 13th level leader or two. Any other ideas? Note: I'm not trying to directly import the judges into Eberron, or any actual Final Fantasy power stuff. Just the idea of the judges. ;)
Charles Phipps 02-11-07, 10:28 PM	I very much like the idea of Judges myself and the important thing to keep in mind with the Judges is that they're Darth Vader. They may have the numbers filed off but that doesn't change that they're a bunch of big armored guys with superpowers that exist to enforce the will of a tyrannical Empire. For my bet, I say don't have the Judges be servants of any existing four nation but instead have them be the servants of the Reidrans.
Arcane Guyver 02-11-07, 11:13 PM	Rather than create a new organization, it might be best to just use Inevitables. Or just have a couple 'bad apple' Sentinel Marshals get the PCs riled up.
Ryuu_Tenshi 02-12-07, 02:55 PM	I like the idea of them either being with Karnnath or Riedria. They COULD be Thranish, but that's more Inquisition type stuff... perhaps even getting FFXish what with the Yevonites. ... Randomly? I adore the visuals in FFXII and use them a lot as source material for Eberron. I do tone it down a great deal so it's less sci-fi ish, but my first reaction upon reaching Archaedes was "Hey, it's Sharn in about 100 years o.O" The airships, especially, look like somewhat more advanced versions of Eberronian airships, especially since they seem to use elemental rings of a sort ;) It'd be interesting to involve other FFXII ish elements in that way, such as dead magic zones in, say, Xen'Drik or Reidria or around Argonessen. (I need to pick up that game again...)
ranger of the north 02-12-07, 04:43 PM	Thinking about the Darth Vader angle helps a bit. The only problem is that I won't be involving Riedra in the current campaign (which is a twisted version of the Savage Tide in Eberron), except for little tiny bits, and in the broadsheets that I'll start giving my players. Nothing says, "Believe what I tell you!" like seeing it in print. Back to the real topic, I realized that Thrane already has Judges in their zealous paladins, so I'm thinking Karrnath. My other idea was for hardcore New Cyreans, or to have the Judges be an organization based out of the Twelve. That idea might actually work, because all my players, including my DMPC, are marked. Even better, they all have tall humanoids (Orien, Cannith, Phiarlan). Now if I can just work in the Paelions, I can set the stage for a mass betrayal! Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! *wheeze* So, anymore thoughts? (Oh, and fighting Gilgamesh is soul-destroying).
Joni-san 02-12-07, 04:51 PM	I have not played FF-XII, but basing on what I've read Riedra would be the best fit. Another option would be a Dhakaani or Darguuni version of the Judges (Perhaps even Droaam?). If you do insist on humans then I'd go with CotSF inquisitors (the bad kind).
Charles Phipps 02-12-07, 05:21 PM	New Secret Society Galifar Justicars Alignment: Lawful Evil The Ancient Empire of Galifar was an organization that many remember with fondness as a shining bastion of goodness, civilization, and peace. Few people remember that the Empire was also an expanionistic state that was utterly ruthless in exploiting its enemies to profit its citizens. No greater organization existing in exemplifying the rule of law than the Galifar Justicars, also known as the Judges. The Judges were granted carte blanche to go forth into the countryside and deal with all threats to their rule. For the most part; this came about being smashing dissent where it existed in all forms. The Valenar humans have something akin to five centuries of horrible memories of what the Cyrean Judge did to them. During the Last War, the Galifar Justicars came to the same agreement with the Five Nations that the Dragonmarked Houses did. They would maintain peace at home while serving in their official capacities as knights until the time that the nation of Galifar was reunited. Their status post the war is assumed to be that all of them are loyal individually to their home nations with the Five Lord-Judges of Galifar being independent Lords of five different groups. They would be wrong. The Galifar Justicars are still united in their single purpose to maintain the rule of law and order in their homelands. Furthermore, anyone that stands in the way of a return to Galifar's unification will be made to dissappear. They are one in this purpose and the idea that the Treaty of Thronehold is anything more than a pause between war is something that they specifically helped kill during the actual treaty. Individual Justicars are primarily Fighters and exist independently of the local government. None of the Four surviving nations were strong enough to marginalize them post the war and have primarily just let them go about their business since then. Many have also "smoothed things over" by taking positions independent of the Judges system. This leads to the (erroneous) impression they have divided loyalties. No member of the Judges survives long the 'screening' process. A substantial number of Justicars are also Blackguards or Paladins with their worship of the Sovereign Host's Lord of the Community allowing them fanatical service. The former substantially outnumber the later who rarely rise to prominence in a society that values hate over mercy. The actual assets of the Judges go well beyond the several hundred men in their service. In addition to their ranks, the majority of them can call upon the services of each nation they belong to with varying degrees of loyalty with some believing in the Judges over their Queen. They have also built up their own private army of mercenaries independent of House Deneith through a legal loophole plus noble forces that their aristocratic members have in their service. This doesn't include all the various pawns they've created from criminal organizations, compromised Dragonmark house members, and so on in order to better serve the greater good. After all; what is blackmail and corruption in the service of the Law? Lord Judge Grast: Lawful Evil Human Male Fighter 10/Aristocrat 4Lord Judge Grast is the Lord Judge of Breland and a General of the nation. Lord Judge Grast is a General of the 'Imperial' Army of Breland and has the loyalty of the First Legion of Breland. He is also a member of the House of Lords in Parliament and a cousin of King Boranal. Grast is privately supporting the Swords of Liberty and the current Prime Minister's work for democracy so that he can eventually dispose of the Royal Family to rule as regent or even King if necessary. After their overthrow, he'll of course eliminate all democratic rule in the kingdom and begin once more working to become Emperor of Galifar. Lord Judge Zole Lawful Evil Female Half-Elf Wizard 13/Fighter 2 A member of House Lyrander, Lady Zole abandoned her house to serve with the Arcane Knights. A leading expert on Airship warfare, she's slowly rebuilt her ties with her house even as she's come to marry/compromise a leading member of the Royal Eyes. This provides her a substantial amount of power over the country's spy service while she considers what to do about the current situation. Lady Zole has no ambitions to be monarch nor is particularly interested in whether Aundair wins the war or not. Her loyalty is to Galifar first and would willingly sabotage her own nation if it means it is restored. Lord Judge Posco: Lawful Good Human Male Cleric 14 Archbishop of the Inquisition Posco is a sincere believer in the Silver Flame and that is why he's fully willing to murder the entire Cardinalite if he has to. Posco is terribly afraid of temporal power 'corrupting' his glorious Flamite church and he is fully intent on restoring the monarchy to prevent worldly matters interferring with his great church's duties to the faithful. There's only the slight problem Posco is demented. The oldest of the Judges, he's actually sustained by powerful magics that have left him more than a little senile and prone to delusions. Posco is controlled by his Lawful Evil Justicar advisors and whom control his access to information. Thus, most of his decisions are entirely just and necessary but carried out with full ruthless abandon. It was Posco's influence that helped make the Lycanthropic crusade happen and he is still respected in the church for his actions there even if they helped contribute to his current delibitated state. Lord Judge Mercer Lawful Evil Human Male Blackguard 18 The most powerful of the Judges personally, Mercer has literally sold his soul to the Devil as he's made a pact with the Lords of Dust post the Mourning. They have given him incredibly powerful magical items and a steady supply of lesser items that he's been distributing through the ranks of the lesser judges to help win their loyalty. Literally hundreds of demons are in his service now and he makes liberal use of them. Lord Judge Mercer wants to restore Cyre to its previous glories as his primary motivation and the fact that its a blasted wasteland doesn't really impact his decisions. It merely means that they will have to rebuild it through whatever demonic artifice they require. Until then, his primary goal is to figure out a way to slaughter the population of Valenar in order to take it over. Q'barra is also a land that he believes can fall under his dominion. Mercer is a violent opponent of Grast's ambition as he wishes to set Oargev up as puppet Emperor. Lord Judge Stane Lawful Neutral Human Male Fighter 12 Lord Judge Stane is a Warlord in Karrnath and by that virtue alone, commands nearly as much power as the King himself. Lord Judge Stane is surprisingly the most moderate of the Judges as he's interested in strict interpretation of their duties than attempting something idealogical. He's annoyed when other members of the Lord Judges overstep their bounds. Stane is currently most interested in rooting out the Emerald Claw and persecuting the Blood of Vol under King Kaius' orders. However, should Kaius prove to be a vampire then he will (purely reluctantly of course) step in to become King or regent if its determined the bloodline hasn't been irrevocably tainted. Then, Stane would certainly note that Kaius' signing of the Treaty of Thornhold was invalid...
Ryuu_Tenshi 02-13-07, 10:45 AM	I would say if one has ToB avaliable that it would be a Good Plan to make them into Warblades and Crusaders rather than simple Fighters, but if you dont have ToB, this is delicious. mmm, villainy. Also, I would not make Posco LG if he helped with the Lycanthrope crusade. LE like everyone else maybe. Or N.
Charles Phipps 02-13-07, 11:32 AM	I would say if one has ToB avaliable that it would be a Good Plan to make them into Warblades and Crusaders rather than simple Fighters, but if you dont have ToB, this is delicious. mmm, villainy. Also, I would not make Posco LG if he helped with the Lycanthrope crusade. LE like everyone else maybe. Or N. This is going with Keith Baker's idea that the Lycanthropic Crusade was actually an extremely good idea. The majority of Lycanthropes being truly horrendous and evil monsters than innocent victims. Only then as everyone became truly gung ho about the war was it "every puppy and his mother." Basically, Posco decided to strike a blow against evil everywhere and like all decisions he's ever made...it ended up causing greater evil than he intended. It's sort of an idea that evil requires "intent" to do harm to innocents but Posco merely is very bad at wielding power or making suitable decisions (his inner circle being thoroughly corrupt Galifarists doesn't help) But yeah, Warblades and Crusades seems about accurate. Frankly, it'd be interesting to see if anyone could play around with this concept to make it interesting. I like the idea of essentially an a Magistrates' bureau gone rogue.
ranger of the north 02-13-07, 12:27 PM	Once again, Charles Phipps, you have won. The idea of the Judges as a Galifaran entity is great, and fits the image much better than keeping them to one country, or making them an outfit of the Twelve. It's a nice touch to make the really nasty one from Cyre, seeing as my Savage Tide will be doing a lot of work there. Now if I just take a few cues from Gabranth, mix with a bit of the arrogance of Gilgamesh, and the general idea of facing down the bottom line enforcers of an entire empire, I think I can thoroughly terrify my players! :D As for the Judges being made with ToB, that would most likely turn out great, but I disallowed it for this campaign. I suppose I could reverse my decision, and then make a large side quest to some ancient lighthouse from the Age of Demons in a cataract in the Barren Sea to gain skills beyond any normal mortals...;)
Ryuu_Tenshi 02-13-07, 02:05 PM	I guess if you didn't integrate ToB into your campaign already then it'd be a problem. Myself, were I to ever run a true, full-blown Eberron game instead of the "Ravenloft-In-Eberron" that I'm currently unable to run due to having more homework than is healthy, I would have the ToB skills be something already extant and while not common, more readily available. That is, some of the Art comes from the ancient Dhakaani, and some of it comes from Adar or Reidria (most particularly Diamond Mind, there), and some of it is a more newly developed phenomenon (for instance, I can see Shadow Hand being developed by a society of Zilargo assassins.) I'd even considered relating each of the nine schools to a dragon - Desert Wind to the Brass, Shadow Hand to the Black, etc, with a fallen tenth school related to the Gold. The main thing is that adepts are far, far, far less common than fighters simply becuase of the comparative difficulty of becoming an adept. Adepts are to fighters what fighters are to warriors. ... Um, but that's really for another thread ^_____^;;;; Yeah, I see your reasoning about the LG bit, that makes sense. Good intentions, but then some wankers down below screwed it up, eh? Makes it nicely grey in typical Eberron fashion. ... damn, now I want to play FFXII some more... heh.
ranger of the north 02-15-07, 12:40 PM	Allow me to present my own Judge. Judge Zepault Lawful Neutral Male Human Ranger 8 Zepault is a Judge under Lord Judge Stane. He has been sent to the Southern Lhazaar in order to work in direct opposition to Lord Judge Mercer's forces. He has been throughout Q'Barra, and is currently in Sasserine, investigating reports of a rogue Judge working in liason with Mercer's activities. Zepault is not a normal Judge. Though he has great combat ability, specializing in the use of two long kukri, he does not favor the Judges' normal fully armored mode of combat. This is mainly due to his upbringing in the Lhazaar, as a ship's boatswain. He was recruited into the ranks of the Judges at the early age of 11, after a Karrnathi exploratory mission to the area during the war. He tends to focus on facts, and discards anything that cannot be immediately proven with logic, or practical application. This has led him to good favor with Lord Judge Stane, but prevents his advancement from going to far because of his inability to accept improvisation. Nonetheless, he is a sound tactician, and few who cross blades with him and his men live long.
ranger of the north 02-15-07, 04:27 PM	As another consideration, I was thinking of altering the smiting targets for the paladin/blackguard judges, and making a feat that the other types could take, like 'Judging Blow' or something. Maybe even a whole tree, for improved smashing. Also, basic items? So far I'm thinking +1 mithral full plate of light fortification would make for some really nasty judges. That and bane weapons. Thoughts, anyone?
Charles Phipps 02-15-07, 08:03 PM	I like Judge Zepault and think he's a very interesting character. A very good extrapolation for the political situation I think. It's also a very good example of a Judge whose not necessarily a bad guy (I find it terribly amusing the only Judge whose probably doing his job right is the one in KARNNATH) I think the Judging Blow as a Smite target for Unlawful types fits the group very well. While I definitely think Judges should be awarded a set of Full Plate Armor, I'm not sure about Mithril since I'm stuck in the old view that it should be fairly rare. On the other hand, artificers and adepts make +1 items fairly common on Eberron. I'd also bestow a +1 weapon upon them as well. With the idea all Judges are at least 2nd level fighters as their basic training, that makes them fairly hefty opponents by comparison and probably as fearful on the battlefield as warforged with most veteran judges being about 4th to 6th level. 1. Occupied territory: A Lhazaar Principality has been conquered by a Brelish task force lead by Judge Grast. The King has been murdered and the Princess forced underground while rather scurilous lies have been concocted to justify the invasion (that is only the first step into conquering all of Lhazaar). Judge Stane objects to the invasion on the grounds that Lhazaar has never been part of the Galifar Empire and wants an investigation into its legal justification. Suffice to say there is skull duggery afoot and even sympathizers in the Lhazaar who pay homage to Brelish gold. 2. The Man in the Iron Mask: The Judges are transporting an individual across the countryside in secret even as a Emerald Claw attack results in the man getting free. It's indeed King Kaius the III trapped in an Iron Mask. However, far from the Salvation of Karrnath the King is quite insane from his years of imprisonment by Vampires and a great believer in the Blood of Vol. Judge Stane is committed to his restoration even as Judge Posco is committed to seeing the imposter (obviously some well meaning Karrnath citizen) from ascending the throne and making Karrnath an even worst nest of undead villainy. Indeed, it was he whom has been holding Kaius III captive in just another revelation that would shake the foundations of Karrnath society. 3. Wrongly Convicted: A man escapes from the Aundair guilotine despite Judge Zole's best efforts and is struggling to escape her dispatch of Arcane Knight Judges whom have marked him with a special seal. The charges against him are tremendous even as he maintains his innocence and blames the Chancellor for setting him up. The Judges are fanatical in their desire to kill him and see justice served since some of the charges are heinous. One is even a paladin. In truth, the man is actually guilty of countless acts of terrorism and is a Rosperrie figure. He's had his mind altered by sympathetic magicians to make him appear innocent until he can restored and continue his revolutionary ideas. Judge Zolo will tolerate no such ideas but has let him go so she can follow him to the hiding place of his conspirators. 4. Pogom: Lord Judge Mercer requires a vast war chest for taking over Q'barra and to do that, he's in negotiations with the Reidrans. They have promised to fully fund his takeover of Q'barra provided he can provide them with the destruction of a substantial number of the Kalashtar. To that end, he has begun deliberately framing them for a substantial number of crimes and executing them without mercy. He also is working on turning public opinion against them so that can be massacred en masse. If this plot is revealed, Mercer thankfully has a scapegoat prepared so his fellow judges don't turn on him. 5. Blood Sports: Believing the number of criminals is overflowing their prisons and unable to get the death penalty applied to more problems, Parliament member Grast has managed to push forth legislation that prisoners can voluntarily compete in gladiator contests to win their freedom through bouts. This he intends to use in order to raise capital for the Judges. Frankly, the "voluntary" nature of these issues is extremely questionable but few prisoners have lawyers or understand the law. This is leading to a brewing jailbreak just as the PCs are arrested for trumped up charges... (Grast has decided to start cracking down on armed 'adventurers' in the Kingdom)
ranger of the north 02-17-07, 11:53 AM	I've been thinking about prerequisites for making a Judging Blow feat, for those Judges who don't go all Paladin or Blackguard. So far, there is obviously the need for membership in the Justicars, although having a version a rogue Judge could use, or maybe just allowing an ex-Judge to retain use of the feat would be kinda neat/odd. Possibly a stat requirement? Maybe a certain level? I'm thinking at least third level myself, but then again paladins and blackguards have these from the beginning. :thinks:
Hopeless 03-02-07, 06:14 PM	I've been thinking about prerequisites for making a Judging Blow feat, for those Judges who don't go all Paladin or Blackguard. So far, there is obviously the need for membership in the Justicars, although having a version a rogue Judge could use, or maybe just allowing an ex-Judge to retain use of the feat would be kinda neat/odd. Possibly a stat requirement? Maybe a certain level? I'm thinking at least third level myself, but then again paladins and blackguards have these from the beginning. :thinks: Just a question but what if another heir to Galifar's throne is found? Would they be interested in tracking such people in case something happens to the current perceived true ruler? And what if they had done something about it, but excuse me, messed it up?
Dragon121594 03-27-07, 05:55 PM	All you need to do is make level twenty-seven knights
ranger of the north 03-28-07, 04:19 PM	I kinda figured that the judges were originally united by Galifar himself, and so served him out of respect. I get the feeling that if Galifar reunited, the judges would most likely do their best to control them in some way, and if they couldn't they would probably denounce them as untrue, and go find someone else they could get a hold on. Judge Stane would most likely be the only one in favor of reuniting Galifar under a non-controlled ruler, and Posco too, if he's still alive by the time that happens.
Charles Phipps 03-28-07, 04:27 PM	Further Suggestions :-) I think Stane would recognize Prince Oargev as the current legal heir of the Galifar throne by most precedent but because the original heir was dead, that all current monarchs have legal claim to the throne except for the Thranite one where the Church is the current heir. Stane, being as he's not a fool, would also recognize this would not be a popular or politically astute thing to voice openly. His duty is to the law but restoring Galifar's unity itself is more important than forwarding one canidate's claim to the throne. Posco is much beloved but he's got several people already vying for his position. Some of them are Lawful Good and terribly disliked by their fellow judges for the fact that they're not going to be so easily manipulated. Others are LE and disliked by the fact that they're going to be rivals in the organization. It's one of the reasons Posco has been kept in his position despite the fact that he's unsuitable for holding it and spends hours a day in times when the world wasn't nearly the Hell hole that it used to be (Posco is something akin to 126 years old thanks to potions of Longeviety) An interesting plot might be the PC's oppostion to the judges actually get them RECRUITED. The organization is so debased in some areas they're not above "if you can't beat em, recruit them." Indeed, they might find that the group could forward "purifying" the other elements as a major element that they're 'different' from the Judges the Pcs may have fought earlier.