Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gilganarz_the_reporter 03-04-05, 08:07 PM	Well, I was reading the superheroes in Eberron thread and it gave me an idea for an epic campaign. Anyone ever read that Marvel vs DC series where the two universes conflict and there is a series of matches between superheroes (hulk vs superman for example)? This could work so well in Eberron. For some reason, the worlds of Eberron and Forgotten Realms collide. In order to decide the fate of the worlds, Ao and Eberron pick 11 champions to fight for the right to exist. Among Eberrons champions are the Pcs. For the others, Oalian, King Boranel and a couple of dragons might be good choices, however, if it isn't going to be just heroes fighting, the daughters of Saura Kell and even Vol might be selected to fight! For FR, Drizz't, Elminister and Simbul are a couple of good choices. Again, if the fighters don't have to be good, stick in Szass Tamm, Furie Orsglottr and a couple of other classic villans. Any other ideas for Roleplaying and other world representatives?
Siduakal 03-04-05, 08:12 PM	... eh if you are really into that.. Go for it. I personally feel it's a bad, bad idea.. (FYI: VERY few cross-comic comics were actually good in my opinion.. SPawn vs Batman being one of those.)
Bluebrush 03-04-05, 09:00 PM	King Boranel isn't that... championic. He's at most CR 9 and an old man by now. Or at least middle aged. Unless he took EWP: Breland on a stick he's not going to stand up to epic levels characters too well. Kaius may have a chance depending on the battlefield.
Puppy 03-04-05, 09:23 PM	Just have this feeling that someone is trying to apply the old playground "my daddy is stronger than your daddy" argument...
MikeyP 03-04-05, 10:08 PM	edit: Forget I even replied.
Siduakal 03-04-05, 10:12 PM	Drizzt can fight my Valenar with a Double-Scimitar, if you want. =) We'll see who the REAL king of Scimitars is. Little Ranger Dark Elf.. ..with his kitten. Or the Spirit-Veil wearing, Double Scimitar wielding Fighter/Tempest Valenar Elf. ..I'm putting my money on the Valenar. Dark Elves got nothin on Valenar.
Xjel 03-04-05, 10:18 PM	Drizzt is over-rated. Suffers Superhero Syndrome: got a problem? Ask Drizzt! What? a Small army of orcs stand between you and your house? Ask Drizzt! Artifact of unbeliveable power taking over your other half? Ask Drizzt! And besides, a Valenar elf is soooo much cooler. :)
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-05-05, 01:58 AM	meh... Put Drizzt up against a war-forged titan, see how long he lasts :P
DM Ront 03-05-05, 02:19 AM	I actually put Drizz't in my Ebberon campign, he was 7 years old and fought with two sticks he called "twinkie" and "icecream", and of course there was his little kitten (who was actually a demon in disguise) I don't like Drizz't much. :looloo:
talion09 03-05-05, 03:41 AM	Game mechanics-wise, I'd have to say that an epic spellcaster like Elminster, Szas Tam (sp?) or the Simbul would wipe the floor with their eberron opponents... Why? Strip aside the Eberron vs FR rhetoric, and consider that there are no epic level PC's in the Eberron setting as it is written. Consider that there are multiple Epic Level PC's in the FRCS, let alone the other sourcebooks. Do you really think that a 15th level character could successfully fight a 25th level caster? If you are trying to argue that Eberron is better than FR, or vice versa, then rhetoric is all that matters. Otherwise the game stats count for a bit. But if you are serious about trying this idea, keep in mind that usually the character with "home turf" advantage wins. If superman fights the hulk in marvel, it turns out differently than if they fight in metropolis. Kinda like two heroes from the same company fighting eachother in different titles... the guy who has his name on the cover usually wins in the end. So if you want to do this, you'd probably have to either "scale-up" the Eberron heroes to fight the FR heroes on Faerun, or "scale down" the FR heroes to fight in Sharn. Or have the fight in a neutral plane and balance the levels. PS. And if we continue this thread, how about we only talk about official characters? None of this "my custom built valenar drizz't slayer is so much tougher than anything from FR" crap. 'cause really, I could just slap a template on that character and proclaim that my character is now the toughest SOB in the planes, but what does that prove?
Ksaturn 03-05-05, 04:49 AM	This thread isn't worth replying to... which leads to the question... Why am I replying... I like Drizzt but he does not have a place in MY ebberon.
Gilganarz_the_reporter 03-05-05, 05:28 AM	Sheesh, what a bunch of party poopers. Was just an idea. Maybe I shouldn't have had the subject "fight Drizz't in Eberron".
Lara Flynn 03-05-05, 07:27 AM	Apart from the question if it should be done - a question which is nothing of my concern, I'd say: It's pointless. It has already been said. The FR guys would wipe the floor with the Eberron characters. There's the Fleshweaver and Oalian being L20, Jaela L18 and Vol with her 16 around - great. So there are the Seven Sisters, El, Khelben and whatnot on the other side ranging from L24-45! Fate of the worlds? Eberron goes down and FR save the day. And if El and stuff aren't good enough yet - don't forget those epic dragons who can even smash the fabulous mage and his comrades.
nyysjan 03-05-05, 10:16 AM	Eberron has a continent full of dragons many of them are epic if there are less than a hundred dragon ascendants at max level ill be heavily dissapointed what makes people think they wont have something to say to this unless it is part of the prophecy
polt 03-05-05, 10:43 AM	In my game, that's impossible. Forgotton Realms doesn't exist. It's another setting, and Eberron isn't connected with it in any way at all, nope, never ever, no!
Onslaught[IT] 03-05-05, 07:28 PM	First of all, I`m not here to 'push' Eberron ... nor critizice it ... I Like FR, I Like Eberron ... Both are good in their own way ... Now, about NPC VS NPC ... Think about that Ubber-Lich who made Szass Tam a lich himself ... He's a true god-like NPC (Supposed to be Lvl 48 or somewhat) ... and he poseses netherese items (Which means super-ubber-artifacts) ... Do you *really* think Vol could stand a round against this guy? Never! Dragons ... Well, Faerun has it's own dragons, but I don't think they would count in this battle ... Now, about Drizzit ... he's not that powerful ... Indeed, FR characters aren't power-oriented, they're just ... 'too' experienced ... that's why they're strong! FR have lots of characters with lots of levels ... but they're not 'god-like' for their levels (I mean, who could make a caster with the same level of Elminster WORST than the old sage of the Dagger Dale? That would be dificult!) Well, that's it ... besides, Eberron and Faerun are in a different context of 'multiverse', so, they couldn't get together (as RL, DL, DS and FR could ... tru PlaneScape and the multiverse)
Gilganarz_the_reporter 03-05-05, 08:12 PM	Look, maybe I was pushing this the wrong way and assumed that more people had actually read or at least heard about the Marvel vs DC crossover. The crossover had superheroes placed up with their counterparts. It wasn't about absolute power. I mean come on, in the comic Jubilee and Robin fought! I can think of about ten better representatives off the top of my head (galactus, Doomsday, martian manhunter etc). And if Aquaman could beat Namor in the comic, then I could see Mordain kicking his counterpart (Szass Tamm). That's why it could work. I'm sure people could think of about 50 better reps for FR than Drizz't, but they aren't as well known are they? I just thought it would be cool idea, even if it is a bit of a humourous one-shot.
darkthought 03-05-05, 09:47 PM	I actually put Drizz't in my Ebberon campign, he was 7 years old and fought with two sticks he called "twinkie" and "icecream", and of course there was his little kitten (who was actually a demon in disguise) I don't like Drizz't much. :looloo: Consider the idea stolen. FAH. let's see how long Elminster can last after the Dreaming Dark get ahold of him. Elminster: "Ho hum, time to sleep..." *ZZZZZZZXHhhhs...* *Horde of Quori* "MWAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAA!" Next Morning... Elminster: "Where's all my spells?" *Horde of Quori-possessed Inspired busting into the room* "MWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAA!" I think it would be a decision on who would be worse invading... FR guys, or the rakasha rajahs. Watch as the dragons WILLINGLY unseal the rajahs to deal with the FR goons... Or of course, the planar rift attracts the Daelkyr to FR. Now that would be interesting. I think they could give the FR goons a run for their money... or at least the being that the Daelkyr are only "emissaries" for. I'd personally rule that anybody from FR comeing into Eberron would have to make a few really big fat saves or pass out due to the elevated ambient magic. Heh... someone fires up Detect Magic and goes into a coma, because their sense is tuned for a world with less prevalent magic. They cast Detect Magic in Sharn and their head explodes. :D
Gilganarz_the_reporter 03-05-05, 10:58 PM	Positive feedback! huzzah!
talion09 03-06-05, 03:15 AM	I might end up incorporating this as a part of my campaign... or at least as a one-off thing as a "filler" adventure if everyone couldn't make it on a given night... My group has been together for years, and we have played in pretty much every world put out by TSR/WOTC, and also in a bunch of homebrews. But more to the point, we have several high level (15+, non-epic) PC's from the Forgotten Realms from campaigns that have been retired. And we just recently started up a new Eberron campaign. I think it would be fun to work the foreshadowing and hints about this conflict, and then have the current Eberron PC's face off against their retired counterparts from FR. More like a JSA vs JLA kind of match than Marvel vs DC, but I think it would be fun to retool those old characters into 3.5 (they were mainly 2nd ed) and send them up against the new guys.
Draco Strang 03-06-05, 02:15 PM	FR would wipe the floor with Eberron....this is not even a contest. Most of the epic casters who would participate are the Chosen of their God. How can you lose with Gods on your side? Plus, resurrection is common in FR. Anyone that dies can be raised right on the battlefield. Good luck getting your Eberron characters that little perk. As stated before, the CRs range from 18 (Drizzt, the lowest on the totem pole here) to just obnoxious...like Larloch, the Simbul, Elminster, Szass Tam, Khelbun Arunsun, and even Kool and his Gang. Oh, I forgot any Netherese Arcansists, if we wanna bring them into the equation. I'd love for the Lord of Blades to fight Drizzt. The dark elf would turn him into kitchen utensils within minutes.
Tealgorthian 03-06-05, 03:01 PM	To be fair, comparing Eberron and Forgotten Realms is like comparing a gifted High School Physics student to Steven Hawkings. One has years and years and years experience on the other.
polt 03-06-05, 03:03 PM	But Eberron will never, at least in my world, get those high lvl epic super über heroes.
Trannic 03-06-05, 03:55 PM	Well, I was thinking, while the premise is a little crazy, it could still be fun, especially if the Fr character's came to Eberron. Some may be the chosen of their gods, but their gods are not on Eberron, are they? They would have to be so utterly unshakeable in their faith to even have a chance at keeping some of their powers, and how do you stay loyal when your god no longer answers your prayers? That would help even the odds a little. You might have to tailor make some characters, say they have been given a short term power boost by the Dragons or something, and have a merry old time beating the crud out of each other.
zerpentor 03-06-05, 07:56 PM	comparing the 2 settings is nothing less than retarded... FR has been out for over a decade and if any comparisson should be made it should be with the first FR setting boxed set. I am pretty sure there aren't too many "epic" characters in that one. Before you start whining about it being 2nd edition, then do the 2nd -> 3rd ed. conversion WotC has put together for you. FR authors have had over 10 years to "out do" eachother with bigger schemes, tougher villians, braver heroes and all that comes with it. It has a pile of supplements and adventures published... I compare this to a heavy weight boxing champion with a decade of experience go toe-to-toe with a guy that just had his first boxing lesson. Don't get me wrong I like both settings, but there's just no comparing the two... if any such comparisson was to be made you would have to discontinue FR books and supplements for a decade, to allow Eberron to evolve like FR has.
mercurywyrm 03-06-05, 09:12 PM	To be fair, comparing Eberron and Forgotten Realms is like comparing a gifted High School Physics student to Steven Hawkings. One has years and years and years experience on the other. Actually I perfer the analogy: Eberron:Forgotten Realms::Real world Rennesaiunce Europe:Arthurian Legends
Jar Head 03-06-05, 09:18 PM	How about someone delete this thread. Forgotten Realms belongs in their boards, and Eberron belongs here. This discussion is just stupid. All of the Eberron fans realize that Eberron wouldn't stand a chance against all of those powerhouses that Forgotten Realms created. Although...I'd like to see Elminster step into Argenossen...
darkthought 03-06-05, 10:00 PM	FR would wipe the floor with Eberron....this is not even a contest. Most of the epic casters who would participate are the Chosen of their God. How can you lose with Gods on your side? Plus, resurrection is common in FR. Anyone that dies can be raised right on the battlefield. Good luck getting your Eberron characters that little perk. As stated before, the CRs range from 18 (Drizzt, the lowest on the totem pole here) to just obnoxious...like Larloch, the Simbul, Elminster, Szass Tam, Khelbun Arunsun, and even Kool and his Gang. Oh, I forgot any Netherese Arcansists, if we wanna bring them into the equation. I'd love for the Lord of Blades to fight Drizzt. The dark elf would turn him into kitchen utensils within minutes. Of course in other settings people draw power from their god... so if that god is removed, poof! No more powers. And the dragons would seriously stomp anybody who was that powerful. I wonder how confused a FR cleric casting augury is when they can't readily identify who or what is answering the spell... In the other settings you're always living the the shadow of someone greater than yourself. In Eberron, YOU are the person to whom everybody aspires to be. Given the two, I'd rather not have a nosey old fart who has a thing for getting drow and goddesses in bed...
Draco Strang 03-07-05, 04:33 AM	Of course in other settings people draw power from their god... so if that god is removed, poof! No more powers. And the dragons would seriously stomp anybody who was that powerful. I wonder how confused a FR cleric casting augury is when they can't readily identify who or what is answering the spell... In the other settings you're always living the the shadow of someone greater than yourself. In Eberron, YOU are the person to whom everybody aspires to be. Given the two, I'd rather not have a nosey old fart who has a thing for getting drow and goddesses in bed... Alright, so the FR gods don't exist. Just delete the Chosen's spell-like ablities, and they'd still stand far apart from Eberron based on their sheer arcane power and experience. I didn't even name any high-level clerics, as I feel this would mainly be an arcane beat down.
Siduakal 03-07-05, 11:37 AM	We have dragon army.. we win. Valenar own Drow. Our Gnomes SOOOO own FR Gnomes. (Zilargo can't be beat in gnome cool ness) Our Dwarves.. okay maybe not so much. Our Warforged own any and all soldiers of FR on equal footing. So take these FR heroes, and now put a Eberron rival up to that level. See who wins. The Valenar Double Scimitar Ranger.. or Drizzt The Talenta Plains Halfling.. Or Regis The Kundarak Debt-Collector Dwarf.. Or Bruenor The Deneith Fighter Human Woman with a Mark.. Or Catti-Brie An Arcanix studied student of Wizardry... Or Elminster A Warforged... ...or one of the "Tough" melees of FR. meh.. the only reason FR has an edge is the setting wants to have "Godlike uber 1337 her0ez" ...Eberron doesn't. Eberron is about YOUR characters.
Draco Strang 03-07-05, 11:51 AM	*deleted*
Draco Strang 03-07-05, 11:52 AM	We have dragon army.. we win. Valenar own Drow. Our Gnomes SOOOO own FR Gnomes. (Zilargo can't be beat in gnome cool ness) Our Dwarves.. okay maybe not so much. Our Warforged own any and all soldiers of FR on equal footing. So take these FR heroes, and now put a Eberron rival up to that level. See who wins. The Valenar Double Scimitar Ranger.. or Drizzt The Talenta Plains Halfling.. Or Regis The Kundarak Debt-Collector Dwarf.. Or Bruenor The Deneith Fighter Human Woman with a Mark.. Or Catti-Brie An Arcanix studied student of Wizardry... Or Elminster A Warforged... ...or one of the "Tough" melees of FR. meh.. the only reason FR has an edge is the setting wants to have "Godlike uber 1337 her0ez" ...Eberron doesn't. Eberron is about YOUR characters. Half of the examples you described are completely irrelevant. a 3rd level fighter is a 3rd level fighter. The Warforged fighter and your typical FR mercenary (most of them are higher level anyway, a *typical* FR NPC fighter is around 3rd or 4th level, whilst Eberron boys are anywhere from 2 to 3 levels of warrior, maybe a level of fighter) are on pretty much equal footing. Forgotten Realms has magic that's just so utterly insane, that two or three of the "uber 1337 her0ez" you describe could just cast up a storm, and decimate any Eberron army. Let me play it out for you. *Time Stop* *Delayed Blast Fireball* *Delayed Blast Fireball* *Delayed Blast Fireball* *Delayed Blast Fireball* *Cloudkill* Drizzt would win simply because he's higher level...let's not talk about coolness factor. Regis would probably whip a Talenta Plains halfling barbarian because of that nifty gem of his. Barbarians have really bad will saves. Then he could turn that barbarian against his own allies. Bring on the smackdown. Elminster could probably erase all of Arcanix by himself. If he can't, there are multiple backups he can bring in for support. The Valenar are all about honor and war, the Drow are about treachery. They'd poison the food of the Valenar, who would then die before ever leaving the breakfast table. But shouldn't you be comparing the Valenar to standard Moon or Grey elves, while stacking the Underdark drow up against the drow of Xen'drik, who are little better than savages? I'll put my money on Bruenor anyday. He has 13 levels of fighter. And he's a king. And he's been brought back from the dead. I think he can take on the Eberron equivalent of a glorified customs agent. I'll give you a house Denieth Dragonmarked mercenary against Catti-brie....... ......Assuming she's bound and gagged with none of her weapons. Taulmaril and Khazi'hea will eat any masterwork longsword alive, in addition to her wicked resourcefulness. She survived in the Underdark, went to sea for 6 years, is the daughter of a dwarven king, and has faced pretty much everything in the Monster Manual, while living to tell about it. Have I made my point? P.S.-Where are the dragons? They didn't fight in the war. Irrelevant.
Siduakal 03-07-05, 12:06 PM	I figured it would be assumed that you'd MAKE THE CHARACTERS ON PAR with the FR rejects. An equal level Valenar is not only COOLER, but will probably beat Drizzts fairy ass. Etc... P.S.-Where are the dragons? They didn't fight in the war. Irrelevant. Go read your timeline, history, whatever.. Dragons didn't fight in the last war, they did, however, fight in other instances. The reason the Elves pulled back to Aerenal from the Dhakaan was a Dragon attack on their home. The Dragons, also, played a large role in the whole quori invasion deal if I remember right. (Haven't read it in a while) You don't have to be part of the Last War to be relevant. The ONLY reason FR holds an edge is simply because they are high level "uber 1337 heroes" who can't be defeated. I've read the Salvatore books. He's a great author. So I'm not bashing him. I'm just pointing out the simple fact that the FR "Heroes" are all too 'perfect' for their own good. So take Catti-Brie and an equal level Deneith Human with a Mark. Give the Deneith human gear that's on par. See who wins. Give the Valenar equal spending funds to match the equipment of Drizzt, see who wins. Give the little Talenta Plains raised Halfling the same, see who wins. (A Cloak of Resistance gives a nice boost to that Will Save.) Give the Warforged levels on par with Wulfgar, see who wins. Etc.. Know who will win every fight if you even them up? The Eberron NPCs... Why? We have Action Points. so ha =P
Tealgorthian 03-07-05, 12:24 PM	I figured it would be assumed that you'd MAKE THE CHARACTERS ON PAR with the FR rejects. Except, you know, then it would just be FR with a different cover and map.
Siduakal 03-07-05, 12:28 PM	Yes, but solely for the purpose of spanking the FR 'heroes'.. We can allow these temporary super heroes of Eberron. Then, for Khorvaire, they'll all die fighting an invasion through the crack in the Mournlands. ..and their equipment gets gobbled up by an aberration and destroyed.
Tealgorthian 03-07-05, 12:33 PM	The point is, if you have to make super powerful heroes of Eberron you've already lost. You tossed out the window the basic premise of the setting. You are comparing apples and oranges. FR is a setting based around the fact your characters are -not- particularly special, and there are bigger fish out there. Eberron is pretty much the opposite. If you try and power-it-up to compete with FR, then you lose because you are a hypocrite. This whole idea is stupid. If you want an invasion from another plane, struggle against domination, look to the Githyanki or something. And another thing. Let's just think about this: WHY, oh WHY, would El, The Simbul, Drizzt or anyone else want to come-over and wholesale butcher the entire population of Eberron? They do have the Good tag on them.
Siduakal 03-07-05, 12:39 PM	-shrug- Boredom? That's why I started replying to this again. :)
Draco Strang 03-07-05, 12:41 PM	I figured it would be assumed that you'd MAKE THE CHARACTERS ON PAR with the FR rejects. An equal level Valenar is not only COOLER, but will probably beat Drizzts fairy ass. Go read your timeline, history, whatever.. Dragons didn't fight in the last war, they did, however, fight in other instances. The reason the Elves pulled back to Aerenal from the Dhakaan was a Dragon attack on their home. The Dragons, also, played a large role in the whole quori invasion deal if I remember right. (Haven't read it in a while) You don't have to be part of the Last War to be relevant. The ONLY reason FR holds an edge is simply because they are high level "uber 1337 heroes" who can't be defeated. I've read the Salvatore books. He's a great author. So I'm not bashing him. I'm just pointing out the simple fact that the FR "Heroes" are all too 'perfect' for their own good. So take Catti-Brie and an equal level Deneith Human with a Mark. Give the Deneith human gear that's on par. See who wins. Give the Valenar equal spending funds to match the equipment of Drizzt, see who wins. Give the little Talenta Plains raised Halfling the same, see who wins. (A Cloak of Resistance gives a nice boost to that Will Save.) Give the Warforged levels on par with Wulfgar, see who wins. Know who will win every fight if you even them up? The Eberron NPCs... Why? We have Action Points. so ha =P Siduakal, I must say that you are one of the most profound and revelatory posters I have ever had the honor of experiencing. Your grammar, diction, and logical reasoning are nothing short of inspirational. :rolleyes: Now, to bust up your argument: Why would you want your Eberron boys to be "on par" with the FR "rejects" as you put it? Just a thought. Anyway, FR is what it is because of its high level NPCs and high-powered nature. Eberron is what it is because of the rarity of any *real* power and grimy, pulpy feel. Take that away, and the selling points of these settings are rendered moot. Let's talk about Dragons. Granted...you were right, they did fight long ago. But where are they today? Isolated, away from everyone else on their own continent. No one has seen them for years. They're almost myths these days The dragons of FR interact with society, and can be persuaded to fight/serve with other creatures through bribery, if it furthers their own goals, through some sense of idealism, or outright force. So it's safe to say that the FR gang would bring a dragon or two with them if this actually happened. All of your other arguments are about "putting Eberron on par" with Forgotten Realms characters. If they're exactly equal, there's a 50/50 chance for each of them to win or lose. Why don't we just save the trouble of writing out stat blocks and start flipping coins? It's make it faster. Are you going to give the little halfling a Cloak of Resistance +5? He's sure gonna need it. That gem has a pretty hefty save DC. look it up. Oh, but wait, if he's "on par" he won't be able to afford it. That's not fair, is it? Guess he can't have it. Sorry. Drizzt would still win...proven fact. How much money have the Valenar generated from book sales and fanboys? Not as much as Drizzt. Not by a long shot. There are more of us rabid freaks who are willing to fight and die in the name of Drizzt than there are for the Valenar. You've never mentioned giving the Warforged levels on par with Wulfgar...you said standard NPC fighter. Again, why don't we just flip a coin? As for your action points? Elminster and the gang have access to Wish.
Siduakal 03-07-05, 12:46 PM	The Whole reason I was saying make them on par was to point out the fact the only reason FR would win in said invasion, is their huge level advantage. Eberron has 0 chance(Well, aside from the Dragons.. and the Rajahs..and the Daelkyr.. but really that's it) of fending them off. The point of my posts was to make some of the Drizzt Fanboys realize exactly how stupid this thread really is. Since saying flat out it was stupid did nothing. Note my above post, where I said I only replied again out of boredom. It's true, I'm just bored right now waiting for a package delivery to arrive.
Draco Strang 03-07-05, 12:58 PM	What an excellent reason to get involved in a debate that has no real conclusion. It wasn't so much the premise that sucked me into a debate with you (it's a really dumb idea, I agree) but your blanket statements that have no backing or sound logic that prompted me to reply. Let's kill this thread.
Siduakal 03-07-05, 01:03 PM	Agreed.. And nerf Drizzt. I want to see him get utterly destroyed in atleast one fight. Not nearly beaten.. -Likes Artemis....-
Onslaught[IT] 03-07-05, 01:12 PM	Guys ... hey ... Most ppl say that Eberron is 'better than FR because it dosn't have all those hi-level NPCs' ... So, then, Eberron is not supposed to have NPCs like FR NPCs ... Again, *any* character with the same level of FR's Characters would beat it counterpart. Now, would be insane make this kind of character ... Another point ... Eberron have it's god-like vilans or NPCs ... but ... God-like NPCs from Eberron are Demi-Gods when compared to FR's ''Greater God-Like'' NPCs ... And, no ... you shouldn't be ashamed of that ... because that's why you like the setting ... you shopuld be happy, b/c if Eberron loses in this point, it hasn't changed ... Who cares about Szass Tam when we have Larloch? He is a lich with enouth levels to be concidered a GOD ... And the most powerfull shades? Forget all that, and think about the most ubber-super-non-sense NPC on the WHOLE history of the cenário ... Could someone beat Karsus, a wizard that had the power to barely kill a god? I don't think so ... Dragons and Dragons, the Realms are full of them ... tere are about 15 Advanced-Master-Dragons who have their own lands and so on ... but you can find places where you can find dragons as a common encounter ... Not really different from Eberron, but still ... Now, think about what a magic circle involving Elminster, Larloch, Szass Tam, Simbul, Blackstaff and Halaster ... what kind of H-bomb could them create with Epic Spellcasting? And, if you want to count monsters, what about Phaerins, who can absorb magic? Then, again ... The combat is non-sense, and FR NPCs could kill each NPC from Eberron easely ... but that's supposed to happen! Well, that's it ...
talion09 03-07-05, 01:12 PM	So take these FR heroes, and now put a Eberron rival up to that level. Gee, I guess you are right. If you artificially either dramatically raise the level of any eberron character to epic levels, I guess they could beat their FR counterpart. Or likewise chop 10-15 levels off of any FR character. Yes, an goblin commoner from Malleon's Gate could beat Elminster in a fight. If Elminster was somehow dropped to first level and the goblin won initiative and then proceeded to roll max damage. Wow, you've proved that if we took eberron characters and forgotten realms characters, level drained them all down to first level, and then had the eberron character win initiative, get a good attack roll and then do well with the damage roll, they could indeed do a single HD worth of damage to their counterpart. Since you seem to have problems with the obvious, note that the above statements were both very sarcastic and also using your own logic. Hmm, I think I've spent enough time on this thread. The original idea of a Marvel vs DC idea had some potential, but idiotic comments by some Eberron zealots have totally gotten it off track.