Firearms in Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Firearms in Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crime_Lord_Lex
10-24-04, 12:09 PM I was wondering about the existence of firearms in Eberron.

The design team gave a long list of films which inspired them(Pirates of the Caribbean, Sleepy Hollow, Casablanca and so forth). All of these films include firearms. Cannons, pistols, muskets...etc.

So do they have a place in eberron, despite the fact that it is set in medieval times?

...personally I have a hard time seeing Jack Sparrow without his trusty pistol ;)

thanks
MarkB
10-24-04, 12:38 PM There's no established place for them, and from what I've read that was a deliberate decision - and one I'd tend to go along with. The setting is not intended to feature any technology more advanced than medieval standard, instead it creates a reneissance (and in some ways more modern) society by using magic to take up the slack between medieval technology and more modern standards - a very interesting approach which would be much diluted by the addition of actual technology.

Nevertheless, I believe there has been much discussion of firearmes on the Combat, Arms and Armour board, and you may well still find a couple of active threads on the subject.
Flack Jack
10-24-04, 02:48 PM My group has aloud the renissance fire arms out of stone, and steel, a universal D20 book. But we all had outlaw star in mind so the already expensive weapon had to become magical. Now are party has magical, armor, swords, and crap while that one swashbuckler has pretty much just a gun. But what a gun it is. We also agreed they could only be found in sharn as it is the city that is said to have everything.
Neofish
10-24-04, 03:26 PM You should have searched this thread, there was already a big thread on this discussion.

No firearms in Eberron.
JDubTrafficGod
10-25-04, 06:02 AM I think this question must come up everytime someone buys the campaign. To say "no firearms in Eberron" is incorrect, as you can add anything you like to your campaign at anytime. Its more of a personal choice. For the most recent discussion of firearms in eberron check out:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=323135

Later :cool:
Gurv
10-25-04, 12:12 PM Although I understand the reason that firearms are left out of most games, one thing that has always bothered me is that there are a huge number of alchemical products available which do things that we can't accomplish in the modern world of science. And yet alchemy cannot produce an explosion.

I understand the game balance issues, really I do. But...I think there must be something we can do to get an alchemical explosion. Maybe not guns, but the bombs at least.

I am considering allowing the bombs described in the DMG, but changing them from gun powder to a more alchemical flavor. And increasing the price so that it isn't a cheaper alternative to magic.

The problem is that the modern mind sees shrapnel and says "Its obvious that being able to direct that where I want it to go...". To which I will have to promptly say "You lose 500xp for bad roleplaying..."

But Eberron demands something that can explode.
ENHenry
10-25-04, 12:20 PM To put it simply, Creator Keith Baker doesn't like them, but if someone wanted to, they should go for it! :)
Warforged_316
10-25-04, 12:38 PM why buy a gun? you could get a warnd of fireball i think for rufly about the same price
JDubTrafficGod
10-25-04, 02:19 PM Unfortunantly a fighter can't use wands.

:rolleyes:
Doctor X
10-25-04, 02:38 PM Sorry, double post...
Doctor X
10-25-04, 02:39 PM Unfortunantly a fighter can't use wands.

:rolleyes:

He can with a DC 20 Use Magic Device check. It's cross-class, but still possible.
JDubTrafficGod
10-25-04, 02:52 PM DC 20 doesnt sound so hard when you think about it...
But most of the NPCs in this world will never see anything above level 3. Which means that your average soldier would have at most a 2 (1 rank, 1 int), or evan the smartest of fighters would have a 5 (1 rank, 4 int). That means an 18 or a 15 everytime you want to use a wand. Not very good odds.

And a note; Though I champion the idea of allowing guns in Eberron and believe that they could feasibly exist in Eberron, they do not in my game. :)
Alexius D'Cannith
10-26-04, 10:15 AM Its for this reason i am experimenting with the development of the Wandlauncher,

The initial models will be a modified ballista type frame inlaid with mithral and silver with an eberron shard instead of a trigger, you slot a wand instead of an arrow (there is no string) and by aiming and firing the ballista the wand is activated,

Advantages, anyone with a launcher and a wand can fire the wand without needing UMD

Disadvantages, Loose automatic hitting, user must aim and fire like a normal ranged weapon, initial models are ballista sized and thus not easily portable

if it works out well it my be reduced to heavy crossbow size, though i might make it an exotic weapon and a bit expensive to buy, though id only allow wands of magic missiles to be fired more than once per round,

i just have this image of the enemy ranged weapon master picking up a magic missile launcher and strafing away with rapid shot
Alarius
10-26-04, 01:11 PM Consider a regiment of magic users:

1st level adepts (representing not too dedicated knowledge of magic?) and wands of lightning bolts (10 charges top, to decrease creation cost). Now that's a scary regiment.

An even more scary scenario is a group of 1st level sorcerers/wizards included in an army battalion using wands of fireballs and scorching rays with wands of fear as back-up to turn the tide of battle.
JDubTrafficGod
10-26-04, 02:00 PM The only thing is why make a magic item that for all intents and purposes is a gun, and not use a gun? Or both? (Other than the coolness.)
dirty_rez
10-26-04, 02:04 PM Its for this reason i am experimenting with the development of the Wandlauncher,

that is the coolest idea ever. may i steel it? pretty please? :D
Sarlax
10-26-04, 03:32 PM Regarding the disparity between alchemy's potential and its actual implementation, a Dungeon a while back (92 I think) revisited the Spelljammer setting. In the equipment section, there were a number of "guns" that worked by firing a spray of alchemist's fire.
Alexius D'Cannith
10-26-04, 04:25 PM The only thing is why make a magic item that for all intents and purposes is a gun, and not use a gun? Or both? (Other than the coolness.)

stylelistics the wand launcher is more flexible than a gun, swap in a wand of summon monster you have a fighter who can deploy an army in an instant,

Swap in fireball wand its a grenade launcher,

swap in a hold monster wand, its a stungun,

and it fits with the setting so well magic instead of technology that goes beyond technology

that is the coolest idea ever. may i steel it? pretty please? :D

Go ahead but be very careful the costs for a launcher should be reasonable for a magic item without being silly, i definatly think it should require exotic weapon proficiancy to use not use without penalty, but use at all,
you also might want to limit the spell level of the wands that can be used say any wand of up to 5th level, and you may want to think about having Arcane and Divine variations of the launcher
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!!
10-26-04, 05:52 PM well since everything in the campaign setting is elemental bound maybe the lord of blades or someone came up with a speacil device that launches fire elementals as bombs ^^ j/k guns make the game unfun.
Manuel: You see a guy with a musket
David: CHARGE!!!!!
Manuel: he shot you with a critical which comes out to 302 damage.
David: but i only have 8 hp...
Lobotaru
10-26-04, 07:15 PM Um, guns don't deal that much damage and that's kind of off by a bit. A pistol deals an average of 6 to 8 damage per shot, which doesn't count in the reload time. Muskets deal 8 to 10 points of damage on average. Also, most players can't afford firearms at the start of the game and even if they do use their treasure to acquire a firearm at 2nd level, they can probably only afford one or two. However, I don't allow magically enchanted guns in my game under the notion that the effects of the enchantment prove detrimental to the chemical reaction of the gunpowder. A flaming or shocking musket will probably explode if anyone attempts to fire it simply because the gunpowder gets ignited in the barrel. A frost musket would simply fail to fire since the gunpowder fails to activate. However, bullets containing magical effects that activate upon impact still work.
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!!
10-26-04, 07:48 PM it was a joke, i admit not a very good one but it was a joke, we all know about modern warfare in the DMG
Flack Jack
10-26-04, 07:48 PM Think of a fire arm of entirely magical nature. First off +1 - +5 or more damage enhancments would still apply.

The weapon would be fueled by the element, be it fire to combust the fuel or electricity that converts to magnitism to accelerate the amunition like a rail gun. Acid would just rely on a different chemical reaction.

I don't know how frost would launch a bullet but I'm not going to rule against it.

Since my group has outlaw star in mind we only let ammunition carry the elemental charge. A freind made a price list for it, and I can post it tomorrow.
Splendide
10-26-04, 07:50 PM I imagine it would be possible to make a projectile weapon based on the compression of bound air elementals. Perhaps it would require a double binding of earth & air elementals. Thats expensive.

It'd be extremely dangerous to wield though, as a backfire would not only do damage, you'd have a couple of angry elementals getting into you.
PsionicMonk
10-27-04, 04:08 AM i dont see how it would be that unbalanceing if you model it right

i like the idea of the fire elemental and what not, but if your baseing it off of outlaw star then really you can have different "shells" that do different elemental damage and even have the ocational dud, :D , fighting any sort of anti magic badguy can easily over power them, expect the 3 speical shells that take a 3rd of your life to use, (lucky for him it was a third of your current hp and not your max :cool: )

anyway cool idea =)
JDubTrafficGod
10-27-04, 05:54 AM I imagine it would be possible to make a projectile weapon based on the compression of bound air elementals... ...It'd be extremely dangerous to wield though, as a backfire would not only do damage, you'd have a couple of angry elementals getting into you.

Sounds like a paintball gun. You fumble... Welcome to doom! :D
PsionicMonk
11-04-04, 07:40 AM after some later thought, and whatching of Outlaw star, the caster wasnt all that powerful of a weapon, but it was far supperor to any firearm.

so letting it do Elemental damage would be cool, but the DCs on most common shells would be low, that most things will be able to bypass it. where then you can go into useing Craft skills and what not, and also you can get better +1...10 that give you better better chances of being able to use it. you can even design a Prc based around it that will give the user bonuses when useing it (if they are willing to spend the gp for the ammo =p)
X-Sakura
11-05-04, 02:42 AM well, i actually believe there should be firearms, look in the DM's Guide 3.5.. there is a small section devoted directly to the implementation of Firearms.. ranging from post midieval to future.. i guess future would be almost like having a gunlike weapon with ammunition imbued with something like magic missle. There is clearly a reason for the gun implementation, and with this setting being close to the technologies of the 1800's it would suit it great to have firearms, if not invented yet.. then invent them i suppose.
Azual
11-05-04, 07:59 AM hmm you could make a weapon that IS an upgrade to a Crossbow.
Just make it so that it uses a Dragonshard to make a small Burning Hands or something Thats what im going to do. (Was inspired to make a firearms/Vamp huntring campaign after Van Helsing) Uses the spell to propel the bullet formt he gun. I also made it so that a Ettin aristocrat has had his epople make these special firearms and is suppliing them to the resistence in Droaam (Daam Hags). There the PC's have to fight Vamps (cause there kool) Werewolves (Ditto) and other baddies (Because a vamp/werewolf needs armies)
:D
I have an overactive amount of free time when not plaing SWG (Star Wars Galaxies)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crime_Lord_Lex 10-24-04, 12:09 PM	I was wondering about the existence of firearms in Eberron. The design team gave a long list of films which inspired them(Pirates of the Caribbean, Sleepy Hollow, Casablanca and so forth). All of these films include firearms. Cannons, pistols, muskets...etc. So do they have a place in eberron, despite the fact that it is set in medieval times? ...personally I have a hard time seeing Jack Sparrow without his trusty pistol ;) thanks
MarkB 10-24-04, 12:38 PM	There's no established place for them, and from what I've read that was a deliberate decision - and one I'd tend to go along with. The setting is not intended to feature any technology more advanced than medieval standard, instead it creates a reneissance (and in some ways more modern) society by using magic to take up the slack between medieval technology and more modern standards - a very interesting approach which would be much diluted by the addition of actual technology. Nevertheless, I believe there has been much discussion of firearmes on the Combat, Arms and Armour board, and you may well still find a couple of active threads on the subject.
Flack Jack 10-24-04, 02:48 PM	My group has aloud the renissance fire arms out of stone, and steel, a universal D20 book. But we all had outlaw star in mind so the already expensive weapon had to become magical. Now are party has magical, armor, swords, and crap while that one swashbuckler has pretty much just a gun. But what a gun it is. We also agreed they could only be found in sharn as it is the city that is said to have everything.
Neofish 10-24-04, 03:26 PM	You should have searched this thread, there was already a big thread on this discussion. No firearms in Eberron.
JDubTrafficGod 10-25-04, 06:02 AM	I think this question must come up everytime someone buys the campaign. To say "no firearms in Eberron" is incorrect, as you can add anything you like to your campaign at anytime. Its more of a personal choice. For the most recent discussion of firearms in eberron check out: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=323135 Later :cool:
Gurv 10-25-04, 12:12 PM	Although I understand the reason that firearms are left out of most games, one thing that has always bothered me is that there are a huge number of alchemical products available which do things that we can't accomplish in the modern world of science. And yet alchemy cannot produce an explosion. I understand the game balance issues, really I do. But...I think there must be something we can do to get an alchemical explosion. Maybe not guns, but the bombs at least. I am considering allowing the bombs described in the DMG, but changing them from gun powder to a more alchemical flavor. And increasing the price so that it isn't a cheaper alternative to magic. The problem is that the modern mind sees shrapnel and says "Its obvious that being able to direct that where I want it to go...". To which I will have to promptly say "You lose 500xp for bad roleplaying..." But Eberron demands something that can explode.
ENHenry 10-25-04, 12:20 PM	To put it simply, Creator Keith Baker doesn't like them, but if someone wanted to, they should go for it! :)
Warforged_316 10-25-04, 12:38 PM	why buy a gun? you could get a warnd of fireball i think for rufly about the same price
JDubTrafficGod 10-25-04, 02:19 PM	Unfortunantly a fighter can't use wands. :rolleyes:
Doctor X 10-25-04, 02:38 PM	Sorry, double post...
Doctor X 10-25-04, 02:39 PM	Unfortunantly a fighter can't use wands. :rolleyes: He can with a DC 20 Use Magic Device check. It's cross-class, but still possible.
JDubTrafficGod 10-25-04, 02:52 PM	DC 20 doesnt sound so hard when you think about it... But most of the NPCs in this world will never see anything above level 3. Which means that your average soldier would have at most a 2 (1 rank, 1 int), or evan the smartest of fighters would have a 5 (1 rank, 4 int). That means an 18 or a 15 everytime you want to use a wand. Not very good odds. And a note; Though I champion the idea of allowing guns in Eberron and believe that they could feasibly exist in Eberron, they do not in my game. :)
Alexius D'Cannith 10-26-04, 10:15 AM	Its for this reason i am experimenting with the development of the Wandlauncher, The initial models will be a modified ballista type frame inlaid with mithral and silver with an eberron shard instead of a trigger, you slot a wand instead of an arrow (there is no string) and by aiming and firing the ballista the wand is activated, Advantages, anyone with a launcher and a wand can fire the wand without needing UMD Disadvantages, Loose automatic hitting, user must aim and fire like a normal ranged weapon, initial models are ballista sized and thus not easily portable if it works out well it my be reduced to heavy crossbow size, though i might make it an exotic weapon and a bit expensive to buy, though id only allow wands of magic missiles to be fired more than once per round, i just have this image of the enemy ranged weapon master picking up a magic missile launcher and strafing away with rapid shot
Alarius 10-26-04, 01:11 PM	Consider a regiment of magic users: 1st level adepts (representing not too dedicated knowledge of magic?) and wands of lightning bolts (10 charges top, to decrease creation cost). Now that's a scary regiment. An even more scary scenario is a group of 1st level sorcerers/wizards included in an army battalion using wands of fireballs and scorching rays with wands of fear as back-up to turn the tide of battle.
JDubTrafficGod 10-26-04, 02:00 PM	The only thing is why make a magic item that for all intents and purposes is a gun, and not use a gun? Or both? (Other than the coolness.)
dirty_rez 10-26-04, 02:04 PM	Its for this reason i am experimenting with the development of the Wandlauncher, that is the coolest idea ever. may i steel it? pretty please? :D
Sarlax 10-26-04, 03:32 PM	Regarding the disparity between alchemy's potential and its actual implementation, a Dungeon a while back (92 I think) revisited the Spelljammer setting. In the equipment section, there were a number of "guns" that worked by firing a spray of alchemist's fire.
Alexius D'Cannith 10-26-04, 04:25 PM	The only thing is why make a magic item that for all intents and purposes is a gun, and not use a gun? Or both? (Other than the coolness.) stylelistics the wand launcher is more flexible than a gun, swap in a wand of summon monster you have a fighter who can deploy an army in an instant, Swap in fireball wand its a grenade launcher, swap in a hold monster wand, its a stungun, and it fits with the setting so well magic instead of technology that goes beyond technology that is the coolest idea ever. may i steel it? pretty please? :D Go ahead but be very careful the costs for a launcher should be reasonable for a magic item without being silly, i definatly think it should require exotic weapon proficiancy to use not use without penalty, but use at all, you also might want to limit the spell level of the wands that can be used say any wand of up to 5th level, and you may want to think about having Arcane and Divine variations of the launcher
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!! 10-26-04, 05:52 PM	well since everything in the campaign setting is elemental bound maybe the lord of blades or someone came up with a speacil device that launches fire elementals as bombs ^^ j/k guns make the game unfun. Manuel: You see a guy with a musket David: CHARGE!!!!! Manuel: he shot you with a critical which comes out to 302 damage. David: but i only have 8 hp...
Lobotaru 10-26-04, 07:15 PM	Um, guns don't deal that much damage and that's kind of off by a bit. A pistol deals an average of 6 to 8 damage per shot, which doesn't count in the reload time. Muskets deal 8 to 10 points of damage on average. Also, most players can't afford firearms at the start of the game and even if they do use their treasure to acquire a firearm at 2nd level, they can probably only afford one or two. However, I don't allow magically enchanted guns in my game under the notion that the effects of the enchantment prove detrimental to the chemical reaction of the gunpowder. A flaming or shocking musket will probably explode if anyone attempts to fire it simply because the gunpowder gets ignited in the barrel. A frost musket would simply fail to fire since the gunpowder fails to activate. However, bullets containing magical effects that activate upon impact still work.
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!! 10-26-04, 07:48 PM	it was a joke, i admit not a very good one but it was a joke, we all know about modern warfare in the DMG
Flack Jack 10-26-04, 07:48 PM	Think of a fire arm of entirely magical nature. First off +1 - +5 or more damage enhancments would still apply. The weapon would be fueled by the element, be it fire to combust the fuel or electricity that converts to magnitism to accelerate the amunition like a rail gun. Acid would just rely on a different chemical reaction. I don't know how frost would launch a bullet but I'm not going to rule against it. Since my group has outlaw star in mind we only let ammunition carry the elemental charge. A freind made a price list for it, and I can post it tomorrow.
Splendide 10-26-04, 07:50 PM	I imagine it would be possible to make a projectile weapon based on the compression of bound air elementals. Perhaps it would require a double binding of earth & air elementals. Thats expensive. It'd be extremely dangerous to wield though, as a backfire would not only do damage, you'd have a couple of angry elementals getting into you.
PsionicMonk 10-27-04, 04:08 AM	i dont see how it would be that unbalanceing if you model it right i like the idea of the fire elemental and what not, but if your baseing it off of outlaw star then really you can have different "shells" that do different elemental damage and even have the ocational dud, :D , fighting any sort of anti magic badguy can easily over power them, expect the 3 speical shells that take a 3rd of your life to use, (lucky for him it was a third of your current hp and not your max :cool: ) anyway cool idea =)
JDubTrafficGod 10-27-04, 05:54 AM	I imagine it would be possible to make a projectile weapon based on the compression of bound air elementals... ...It'd be extremely dangerous to wield though, as a backfire would not only do damage, you'd have a couple of angry elementals getting into you. Sounds like a paintball gun. You fumble... Welcome to doom! :D
PsionicMonk 11-04-04, 07:40 AM	after some later thought, and whatching of Outlaw star, the caster wasnt all that powerful of a weapon, but it was far supperor to any firearm. so letting it do Elemental damage would be cool, but the DCs on most common shells would be low, that most things will be able to bypass it. where then you can go into useing Craft skills and what not, and also you can get better +1...10 that give you better better chances of being able to use it. you can even design a Prc based around it that will give the user bonuses when useing it (if they are willing to spend the gp for the ammo =p)
X-Sakura 11-05-04, 02:42 AM	well, i actually believe there should be firearms, look in the DM's Guide 3.5.. there is a small section devoted directly to the implementation of Firearms.. ranging from post midieval to future.. i guess future would be almost like having a gunlike weapon with ammunition imbued with something like magic missle. There is clearly a reason for the gun implementation, and with this setting being close to the technologies of the 1800's it would suit it great to have firearms, if not invented yet.. then invent them i suppose.
Azual 11-05-04, 07:59 AM	hmm you could make a weapon that IS an upgrade to a Crossbow. Just make it so that it uses a Dragonshard to make a small Burning Hands or something Thats what im going to do. (Was inspired to make a firearms/Vamp huntring campaign after Van Helsing) Uses the spell to propel the bullet formt he gun. I also made it so that a Ettin aristocrat has had his epople make these special firearms and is suppliing them to the resistence in Droaam (Daam Hags). There the PC's have to fight Vamps (cause there kool) Werewolves (Ditto) and other baddies (Because a vamp/werewolf needs armies) :D I have an overactive amount of free time when not plaing SWG (Star Wars Galaxies)