First time as an Eberron DM [Archive] - Wizards Community

First time as an Eberron DM [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AnujaShadow
12-17-04, 11:40 PM In a few weeks, I plan on starting up an Eberron CS game, with a group of 4 to 5 people. I'm a relatively new DM, and I was wondering what's a good level for a group of people to start at?

I was thinking starting them off at 5th level, so they don't have to fear everything in the world, but would this make everything unbalanced or anything? Also, would it be recommended (if I start off at first level) to run them through the adventure in the ECS and the Shadows of the Last War module?
Edymnion
12-17-04, 11:49 PM First up, read your ECS.
It was designed for players to start out at level 1. At level 5, the party would already be some of the most powerful people in the gaming world. Don't just hand that out, make them work for it.

If you are a new DM, and just starting in on Eberron at the same time, yes, I would suggest you do the premade adventures for a while until you are comfortable enough to build your own game.
HuwJones
12-18-04, 12:14 AM If you have the premade adventures, and no better ideas off the top of your head, then yeah, use them.
Level 2 is acceptable starting level if you want less risk, or if several of your party have strong multiclassing concepts (some of which really suffer if you spend your first level without half your abilities).
Level 5 starting is probably best to leave until you and your group are at the point of going "Yeah, we've gone through the first 5 levels too many times, boring..."
Master of shaarat'khesh
12-18-04, 12:56 AM I am in full agreement with Edymnion on this, starting them at 5th lvl is just way too high for SotLW. It says on the inside 1st paragraph that it is designed for four 2nd level players. If you're going to run SotLW and you're new to Dm'ing, you might really want to stick to the suggested guidlines for running it. I mean, it's not a push over adventure for a party of four at 2nd lvl but it's challenging enough to keep that level of PC's interested and challenged. I think that it would be way too easy for a party of 4 or 5 at 5th level though.

Consider this also, even though some may see the 1st level start of a character as "boring" I say, not if it's done right. Call me an old schooler or whatever, but I've always felt like the first couple of levels are the base or foundation for you characters. It's where some of the best gaming stories come from because they aren't so great and can't swing in and save the day without stumbling and falling in the mud maybe. But also because at that level when they do roll that 20 and pull off the spectacular stunt it's like setting the tone for your future PC. It's where you meet up and get a feel for everyone else in the party as well. But in the end I feel that It's only as boring as you (as a player) or you (as the DM) allows it to be.

I guess to me saying that starting levels are boring is like saying that your teen years are or were boring. Maybe they were maybe they weren't but I bet most everyone will look at it and say most of it was alot of fun.

Anyway, just be prepared and cover all your bases and that adventure is pretty smooth.

*leaves .02 cents*
Weo
12-18-04, 12:59 AM I agree with Endymion, I think you should start out really low; lvl 2 if not 1.

If the players are new, they'll need time to get used to rules as they stand before they begin to bend those rules with feats, special abilities, etc. And of course, spells and such only get more complicated as you go up in lvls.

Also, 1st lvl is a time when the players are forced to branch out more; there have been a number of times when I've Dm'd a first lvl sorcerer or wiz who reached for crossbow, or griped their staff and waded into melee b/c they didn't have any spells left. I think these are good things to experience.

the above applies to any setting. And E is a pretty low lvl world, at least right now, at least when it comes to people with actual PC classes and not NPC classes. I think the fact that the world is meant for swashbuckling excitment almost demands low levels. Who needs to make a daring leap from a falling bridge to safety when you can just cast fly? Who needs to climb a golden idol to escape swarming beetles when you've got Control Vermin? etc, etc...point being, E demands low levels moreso than the average game, I think.

And finally, at 5th lvl the wiz gievs fireball....that's a big step....that really changes the way the whole party approaches combat, b/c now you have to give the bad guy space in order to allow the fireball to blow up before you wade in, rogues have to be more careful in their positioning, etc...starting off below all that is easier, I think.

And remember, you can still throw whatever you want at the PC's, just mod the CR by reducing hit points, damage dealt, etc. That's a pretty subtile thing to do, and I know you said you're a new DM, so I would simply suggest that, if you really want to throw an orc barbarian at them right away, go ahead and do, just make sure the orc has 1/2 the hit points of aregulat orc, or something...you know what I'm saying, basically, don't let the numbers inthe Monster Manual get in the way of a good graphic or character or plot....cuz that's the hard stuff to come up with, IMHO.
EberronJunkie
12-18-04, 06:04 AM start at level one, and make the players delve deep into their characters, backstories, personalities etc, dont just let them be people acting, let them be their characters. level one is a great way to get to know your character, they dont know everything, they cant do much and even kobolds can kill them so it will make the players think not just charge in, except barbarians of course.
anyways eberron is designed for lower levels, a level 5 character is already big news in most areas of the world. and try to keep the fireball thowing to a minimum, people dont like singed eye brows.
Emirikol
12-18-04, 12:07 PM We've been discussing this over at EberronDM's. It's a given that 1st is the best. If you're new to the world, it's best to come in as a novice. If you come in with no appreciation for the power of the world (say, if you came in at 5th level or something), then that world (or any world) will be a joke.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/EberronDMs

jh
Gurv
12-18-04, 01:24 PM 1st level. Absolutely.

One of Eberron's strongest points is to bring the power level back down. First level characters are better than the average Joe, who uses NPC classes. Having a PC class is automatic hero status. Starting at 5th level is more like handing out superpowers.
DJDave
12-20-04, 06:56 AM I concur with the comments above. First level campaigning makes for odd group dynamic that changes as you move up levels. F'rinstance I have just seen a four-man party at level one where the supposed front-line warforged was reduced to tossing shuriken, the fighter was downed and the character that got the most kills was the Wizard with a light crossbow. :D
Rinna
12-20-04, 10:37 AM I definaltely agree that 1st is the best. I always liked watching a character start out as a lowly 1st level character and rise to be one of the most powerful people in the world. It's kind of a nice feeling.

However, my group has...peculiar notions for characters. Things with CLs, and all. In order for the one to have any class levels whatsoever, we needed to start at 5th. I'm not all too happy with it, but my player is happy with her character, and that's what matters.

Given the choice, 1st level's the way to go.

Rinna
ENHenry
12-20-04, 12:37 PM I'm going to be a dissenting voice here, and say that while it's probably best to start at 1st level, it is not a necessity. The depth of themes, characters, and threats in Eberron are such that any character, from 1st to 20th, will be challenged by the setting. There ARE more than one or two high-level NPCs in Khorvaire, but no one in the unique position your characters have to make a serious difference. Same as any campaign, starting at first will allow your players to better experience and become grounded in the world; if you and they are interested in exploring higher level themes, then there's also nothing wrong with making 5th level PCs, complete with according levels of prominence in the game world, and start from there; or, make a couple of sessions with the PCs at lower levels, to simulate flashbacks, and then launch into the main campaign at their appropriate level.

In other words, it's your and their show, and Eberron is designed with more than 1st level PCs in mind.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AnujaShadow 12-17-04, 11:40 PM	In a few weeks, I plan on starting up an Eberron CS game, with a group of 4 to 5 people. I'm a relatively new DM, and I was wondering what's a good level for a group of people to start at? I was thinking starting them off at 5th level, so they don't have to fear everything in the world, but would this make everything unbalanced or anything? Also, would it be recommended (if I start off at first level) to run them through the adventure in the ECS and the Shadows of the Last War module?
Edymnion 12-17-04, 11:49 PM	First up, read your ECS. It was designed for players to start out at level 1. At level 5, the party would already be some of the most powerful people in the gaming world. Don't just hand that out, make them work for it. If you are a new DM, and just starting in on Eberron at the same time, yes, I would suggest you do the premade adventures for a while until you are comfortable enough to build your own game.
HuwJones 12-18-04, 12:14 AM	If you have the premade adventures, and no better ideas off the top of your head, then yeah, use them. Level 2 is acceptable starting level if you want less risk, or if several of your party have strong multiclassing concepts (some of which really suffer if you spend your first level without half your abilities). Level 5 starting is probably best to leave until you and your group are at the point of going "Yeah, we've gone through the first 5 levels too many times, boring..."
Master of shaarat'khesh 12-18-04, 12:56 AM	I am in full agreement with Edymnion on this, starting them at 5th lvl is just way too high for SotLW. It says on the inside 1st paragraph that it is designed for four 2nd level players. If you're going to run SotLW and you're new to Dm'ing, you might really want to stick to the suggested guidlines for running it. I mean, it's not a push over adventure for a party of four at 2nd lvl but it's challenging enough to keep that level of PC's interested and challenged. I think that it would be way too easy for a party of 4 or 5 at 5th level though. Consider this also, even though some may see the 1st level start of a character as "boring" I say, not if it's done right. Call me an old schooler or whatever, but I've always felt like the first couple of levels are the base or foundation for you characters. It's where some of the best gaming stories come from because they aren't so great and can't swing in and save the day without stumbling and falling in the mud maybe. But also because at that level when they do roll that 20 and pull off the spectacular stunt it's like setting the tone for your future PC. It's where you meet up and get a feel for everyone else in the party as well. But in the end I feel that It's only as boring as you (as a player) or you (as the DM) allows it to be. I guess to me saying that starting levels are boring is like saying that your teen years are or were boring. Maybe they were maybe they weren't but I bet most everyone will look at it and say most of it was alot of fun. Anyway, just be prepared and cover all your bases and that adventure is pretty smooth. leaves .02 cents
Weo 12-18-04, 12:59 AM	I agree with Endymion, I think you should start out really low; lvl 2 if not 1. If the players are new, they'll need time to get used to rules as they stand before they begin to bend those rules with feats, special abilities, etc. And of course, spells and such only get more complicated as you go up in lvls. Also, 1st lvl is a time when the players are forced to branch out more; there have been a number of times when I've Dm'd a first lvl sorcerer or wiz who reached for crossbow, or griped their staff and waded into melee b/c they didn't have any spells left. I think these are good things to experience. the above applies to any setting. And E is a pretty low lvl world, at least right now, at least when it comes to people with actual PC classes and not NPC classes. I think the fact that the world is meant for swashbuckling excitment almost demands low levels. Who needs to make a daring leap from a falling bridge to safety when you can just cast fly? Who needs to climb a golden idol to escape swarming beetles when you've got Control Vermin? etc, etc...point being, E demands low levels moreso than the average game, I think. And finally, at 5th lvl the wiz gievs fireball....that's a big step....that really changes the way the whole party approaches combat, b/c now you have to give the bad guy space in order to allow the fireball to blow up before you wade in, rogues have to be more careful in their positioning, etc...starting off below all that is easier, I think. And remember, you can still throw whatever you want at the PC's, just mod the CR by reducing hit points, damage dealt, etc. That's a pretty subtile thing to do, and I know you said you're a new DM, so I would simply suggest that, if you really want to throw an orc barbarian at them right away, go ahead and do, just make sure the orc has 1/2 the hit points of aregulat orc, or something...you know what I'm saying, basically, don't let the numbers inthe Monster Manual get in the way of a good graphic or character or plot....cuz that's the hard stuff to come up with, IMHO.
EberronJunkie 12-18-04, 06:04 AM	start at level one, and make the players delve deep into their characters, backstories, personalities etc, dont just let them be people acting, let them be their characters. level one is a great way to get to know your character, they dont know everything, they cant do much and even kobolds can kill them so it will make the players think not just charge in, except barbarians of course. anyways eberron is designed for lower levels, a level 5 character is already big news in most areas of the world. and try to keep the fireball thowing to a minimum, people dont like singed eye brows.
Emirikol 12-18-04, 12:07 PM	We've been discussing this over at EberronDM's. It's a given that 1st is the best. If you're new to the world, it's best to come in as a novice. If you come in with no appreciation for the power of the world (say, if you came in at 5th level or something), then that world (or any world) will be a joke. http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/EberronDMs jh
Gurv 12-18-04, 01:24 PM	1st level. Absolutely. One of Eberron's strongest points is to bring the power level back down. First level characters are better than the average Joe, who uses NPC classes. Having a PC class is automatic hero status. Starting at 5th level is more like handing out superpowers.
DJDave 12-20-04, 06:56 AM	I concur with the comments above. First level campaigning makes for odd group dynamic that changes as you move up levels. F'rinstance I have just seen a four-man party at level one where the supposed front-line warforged was reduced to tossing shuriken, the fighter was downed and the character that got the most kills was the Wizard with a light crossbow. :D
Rinna 12-20-04, 10:37 AM	I definaltely agree that 1st is the best. I always liked watching a character start out as a lowly 1st level character and rise to be one of the most powerful people in the world. It's kind of a nice feeling. However, my group has...peculiar notions for characters. Things with CLs, and all. In order for the one to have any class levels whatsoever, we needed to start at 5th. I'm not all too happy with it, but my player is happy with her character, and that's what matters. Given the choice, 1st level's the way to go. Rinna
ENHenry 12-20-04, 12:37 PM	I'm going to be a dissenting voice here, and say that while it's probably best to start at 1st level, it is not a necessity. The depth of themes, characters, and threats in Eberron are such that any character, from 1st to 20th, will be challenged by the setting. There ARE more than one or two high-level NPCs in Khorvaire, but no one in the unique position your characters have to make a serious difference. Same as any campaign, starting at first will allow your players to better experience and become grounded in the world; if you and they are interested in exploring higher level themes, then there's also nothing wrong with making 5th level PCs, complete with according levels of prominence in the game world, and start from there; or, make a couple of sessions with the PCs at lower levels, to simulate flashbacks, and then launch into the main campaign at their appropriate level. In other words, it's your and their show, and Eberron is designed with more than 1st level PCs in mind.