Flamebound Symbol [Archive] - Wizards Community

Flamebound Symbol [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Takasi
04-17-06, 06:18 PM Can anyone clarify this Five Nations spell?

Under the description for Flamebound symbol:

If you cast the spell before attempting to turn undead, your turn undead ability changes as follows: Instead of being turned or destroyed, all undead within 60 feet take 1d6 points of sacred damage per caster level.

Do you have to succeed on your turning check check in order to affect the undead? Do you have to attempt to turn undead at all? It would seem so from the description. Otherwise, does a 60' radius spell that deals potentially 20d6+ damage as an AoE seem appropriate for a third level slot?
mhacdebhandia
04-17-06, 06:39 PM Yes, you have to succeed on the attempt. Otherwise there's no "instead of being turned or destroyed", because no undead would be turned or destroyed.
The_Holy_Lugnut
04-17-06, 07:38 PM Yes, you have to succeed on the attempt. Otherwise there's no "instead of being turned or destroyed", because no undead would be turned or destroyed.Then not all undead within 60 feet take damage, do they?

For the record, I'm Takasi's player and my interpretation of the spell is that it changes the turn undead ability so that instead of turning or destroying undead, the use of the "turn undead" ability deals damage to all undead within 60 feet (as opposed to changing the turn undead ability so that the effect of the "turn undead" ability is to deal damage instead of turn or destroy undead).

Frankly, I can see the spell being interpreted either way, so I'd be most interested in hearing if anyone thinks a 3rd-level spell that lasts 1 round and requires you to burn a turn attempt in order to inflict 1d6/level damage (save for half) to all undead within 60 feet is overpowered. It doesn't seem like it to me, but maybe that's only because I'm the one who wants to do it! :)
Mephit James
04-17-06, 08:11 PM I think that, given the wording and precedents, they mean that you need to succeed in a turn attempt to deal the damage. It might seem unfair to burn a turn attempt, but consider inflict light wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/inflictLightWoundsMass.htm), which is the lowest-level equivalent that I can find. That's a 5th level spell which, granted, deals 1d8 damage instead of 1d6, but the power scales as +1/level instead of +1d6/level. I suppose the writers of Five Nations figured limiting it to undead as targets would reduce the level to 3rd, but in my mind you also need an attack-like mechanic to reduce the level by a whopping two.
Considering the amazing damage that you can reach quickly, I'd also propose putting an upper cap on the damage such as "... to a maximum of 10d6 damage at 10th level" or something.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Takasi 04-17-06, 06:18 PM	Can anyone clarify this Five Nations spell? Under the description for Flamebound symbol: If you cast the spell before attempting to turn undead, your turn undead ability changes as follows: Instead of being turned or destroyed, all undead within 60 feet take 1d6 points of sacred damage per caster level. Do you have to succeed on your turning check check in order to affect the undead? Do you have to attempt to turn undead at all? It would seem so from the description. Otherwise, does a 60' radius spell that deals potentially 20d6+ damage as an AoE seem appropriate for a third level slot?
mhacdebhandia 04-17-06, 06:39 PM	Yes, you have to succeed on the attempt. Otherwise there's no "instead of being turned or destroyed", because no undead would be turned or destroyed.
The_Holy_Lugnut 04-17-06, 07:38 PM	Yes, you have to succeed on the attempt. Otherwise there's no "instead of being turned or destroyed", because no undead would be turned or destroyed.Then not all undead within 60 feet take damage, do they? For the record, I'm Takasi's player and my interpretation of the spell is that it changes the turn undead ability so that instead of turning or destroying undead, the use of the "turn undead" ability deals damage to all undead within 60 feet (as opposed to changing the turn undead ability so that the effect of the "turn undead" ability is to deal damage instead of turn or destroy undead). Frankly, I can see the spell being interpreted either way, so I'd be most interested in hearing if anyone thinks a 3rd-level spell that lasts 1 round and requires you to burn a turn attempt in order to inflict 1d6/level damage (save for half) to all undead within 60 feet is overpowered. It doesn't seem like it to me, but maybe that's only because I'm the one who wants to do it! :)
Mephit James 04-17-06, 08:11 PM	I think that, given the wording and precedents, they mean that you need to succeed in a turn attempt to deal the damage. It might seem unfair to burn a turn attempt, but consider inflict light wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/inflictLightWoundsMass.htm), which is the lowest-level equivalent that I can find. That's a 5th level spell which, granted, deals 1d8 damage instead of 1d6, but the power scales as +1/level instead of +1d6/level. I suppose the writers of Five Nations figured limiting it to undead as targets would reduce the level to 3rd, but in my mind you also need an attack-like mechanic to reduce the level by a whopping two. Considering the amazing damage that you can reach quickly, I'd also propose putting an upper cap on the damage such as "... to a maximum of 10d6 damage at 10th level" or something.