Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DyloniusFunk 07-29-07, 02:12 PM	SO i'm reading through my copy of Forge Of War and i notice that the stat blocks of units in the War are comprised of a lot of PC classes. There are soldiers with levles in FIghter and commanders are sometimes Knights or Duskblades. Usually it's the leades of a paticular unit that have the PC levels but if we assume a lot of those units were in any one nations millitary that's a lot of PC classes. It seems to me that maybe it's to many PC classes since iw as under the impression that in Eberron PC classes were meant to be rare and special, and the majority of people had NPC not classes, not neccessary commoner but more likely Expert or Magewright instead of Artificer as a town't blacksmith/fix it/build it man or Expert or Adept instead of Clerics leading the church services. But then again i have to rememebr that this is for units who servied during the war and if i recall the ECS says that one of the reasons that PC classes are so rare and more of them are low level today is because, if i may shamelessly steal from Allen Ginsberg, the people of Korvaire saw "the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix; angel-headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dyn" Ok, maybe not quite the same thing but in any case my point is that there were PC classes before and during the way of many levels but the reason theya re so rare in 998 YK where the metagame begins is because most of themw ere killed off duri9ng the war or retired. Thus a new generation of PCs have to rise up to fill in the void left by those lost in 100 years of war. SO anyone have any other thoughts on this? Are there to many PC classes listed as serving in the war or does it fit with what we've learned so far about the history of Eberon and the numbers of people with PC potential?
Koofoo95 07-29-07, 02:27 PM	It seemed to me that the pc classes were mostly elite units or unit commanders and the standard infantry guy was a warrior/commoner. But there are a lot of pc class npc's...
Charles Phipps 07-29-07, 02:33 PM	Basically, I view it this way... Warriors: The average "career" soldier. These people aren't just conscripts straight off the farm but people who've recieved the equivalent of Basic Training. Rangers: The basic "Green Beret" class. Elite Special Forces designed to go behind enemy lines and in hostile foreign territories (Dargunn, Droam, Eldeen Reaches, Valenar, etc) and 'live off the land.' Fighters: The other Special Forces class. Fighters are highly trained, disciplined, and know pretty much can kill with every kind of weapon known to man....and this is at first level. Paladins: Unlike the Forge of War, I totally disbelieve the 2000 Paladins at certain Thrane battles. Paladins are extraordinarily rare, I'm talking Jedi Knight during The ESB rare. Paladins are the equivalent of Joan of Arc. If one involved themselves in the war, you'd know it. Substitute every reference to Paladin in the book with "Templar" from Faiths of Eberron. Mostly, they're Fighter/Adepts which makes them still very good. That's my initial take.
NevronEQ 07-29-07, 03:27 PM	I don't own the book you talk about but I will say this : Thrane could very likely field a two thousand man paladin army at one point from what I read about it. Paladins seem not very rare in 3.5E in general, and Eberron in particular, especially in Thrane where Fanatism as a control device were / is used more often than not. There's likely alot of PC classes listed in that book to better describe the gritty veteran, rather than give him/her 2-3 levels instead.
Charles Phipps 07-29-07, 03:34 PM	Where Fanatism as a control device were / is used more often than not You could be the most religious man in the world and it means jack if your god doesn't choose you.
NevronEQ 07-29-07, 03:38 PM	Well, The Silver flame burns ever bright does it not? That is their god. I'm a fan of the "old" version of the paladin as well, with higher requirements both stats wise and RP wise. But that's not the core rules any longer and Eberron is a world filled with moral laxness.
DragoonDarkfire 07-29-07, 03:39 PM	Wouldn't Favored Souls fall under a similar category?
Arcane Guyver 07-29-07, 04:37 PM	IIRC, I thought the Last War was one reason for a lack of characters with heroic/PC classes. So there very well could be more of them around during that time.
TheKeyofE 07-29-07, 11:16 PM	I would think that 2000 paladins in a single battle would be all the paladins in the church all in one place, most of which would probably only be 1st or 2nd level. It seems to me that even a church with tens or hundreds of thousands of devoted followers would have a hard time finding more than 2000 "true paladins." But that's just my guess, though. My DM just bought FoW, I'll have to look at it and see what they say about it.
Identitystolen 07-30-07, 08:56 AM	Rangers: The basic "Green Beret" class. Elite Special Forces designed to go behind enemy lines and in hostile foreign territories (Dargunn, Droam, Eldeen Reaches, Valenar, etc) and 'live off the land.' Actually, the Green Beret's role is to train foreign forces to help US interest. They can (and do) work convertly, but their primary mission is to train. You're thinking of Marine Recon and/or the Army Rangers. Just nit-picking.
DarkWarriorKarg 07-30-07, 02:27 PM	SO anyone have any other thoughts on this? Are there to many PC classes listed as serving in the war or does it fit with what we've learned so far about the history of Eberon and the numbers of people with PC potential? They are all low-level and STAY that way... the elite soldiers of karrnath might be "Fighters", but they rarely progress past 5th level.... at least in the PC classes. They might be multiclassed with NPC classes...
DBlizzard 07-30-07, 03:03 PM	They are all low-level and STAY that way... the elite soldiers of karrnath might be "Fighters", but they rarely progress past 5th level.... at least in the PC classes. They might be multiclassed with NPC classes... Somewhat true (I think most do advance, but pretty slowly). Also just because they are rare it doesn't mean they are non-existent. For example, the Demographics Generator (http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/demographics.html) gives me over 100 fighters out of 100,000 people in a Breland metropolis (with 1 11th level fighter). Yes, it's less than 1%. However, you can bet that almost everyone of them is out fighting the war and not staying a home cleaning the streets or running the local tavern. So, the percentage of PC classes you see "in the field" will be higher than expected in the general population.
aelryinth 07-30-07, 07:52 PM	Paladins are no more rare then LG clerics are. Unlike 1 and 2E, you don't need a 17 Cha to be a paladin (paladins WERE extremely rare in those days as a class). So there can be tons and tons of paladins around, its just you have to have a LG population base to take them from...which Thrane has. ===Aelryinth
Charles Phipps 07-30-07, 07:57 PM	Paladins are no more rare then LG clerics are. Unlike 1 and 2E, you don't need a 17 Cha to be a paladin (paladins WERE extremely rare in those days as a class). So there can be tons and tons of paladins around, its just you have to have a LG population base to take them from...which Thrane has. ===Aelryinth Yeah, I think the point was that you can't train a paladin. It's chosen by the deity in question. It's not like the Jedi Knighthood where you learn Lay on Hands by meditation.
Revvecor 07-30-07, 08:59 PM	I may have misunderstood the text in the FoW, but the 2000 complement units you are saying are paladins. The text says "a 2000 man unit with a company of paladins" to me this means that the unit contains (1,800-1,925) mounted calvary and a company (75-200) of paladins. Apart from my differences on terminology with most of you, I would say Charles Phipps description of the classes is the most reasonable.