Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dhakaani Heir 02-16-05, 05:45 AM	Yesterday I dm'd my first eberron adventure the Forgotten Forge with a party consisting of an adamantine Warforged Fighter, Valenar ranger and Shifter cleric. And basically they crushed everything I threw at them they guessed the puzzles on the first try, missed the swarm with the flasks of fire but still easily beat it the only time they came close to dieing was in the final fight and then they just used the potions from inside the forge Afterwards I got their opinions on the adventure and was an indifferent okay Has anyone else had these problems?
HippoRider 02-16-05, 06:03 AM	what sort of stats did they have? Similar to the elite array or better? If better then sometimes you have to scale the encounters up to a party almost a level higher. Also i didn't see you mention the horrid rats were they too stealthy for them? As they are one of the tougher beasties in that module or so I hear.
Dhakaani Heir 02-16-05, 06:48 AM	The Cleric Calmed the rats easily the characters were from Hellcows sample party
Kid SixXx 02-16-05, 07:05 AM	If they nearly died at the end, but still succeeded, it sounds like everything went well. The dire rats gave the party I DMed no end of trouble as did the Iron Defender, but I don't think the module is designed to be terribly life threatening since it is the players maiden foray into adventure. The beetle swarm, IMO, is supposed to be a scare tactic more or less. I had one of the retreating Shifters from the ambush eaten alive by it, and conveniently allowed the PC's to see the entire thing. That made the next few dice rolls a bit tense. Were your PC's bored or did they enjoy the adventure?
Firiel Tindomerel 02-16-05, 07:23 AM	The most fun is to just roleplay the adventure. The fighting stuff is quite "vanilla" I have to agree. Just the final encounter can be really challenging. If the adventurers come out injured from the dog, just have fun! I really liked the scene. The party came out of the forge, thinking they are done, and a flaming bolt reach them from the shadows :D
markvi58 02-16-05, 05:08 PM	If they didn't fight the rats, and didn't absentmindedly wander into the swarm, then the adventure might have been easier. These were the two combats where my players started burnin' the action points. There was talk (probably over a month ago) on this board that the horrid rats were probably too tough to be a CR2 creature for the amount of troubles that they gave some parties.
Graywolf 02-18-05, 04:08 AM	I really wouldn't call the Forgotten Forge too easy. My group, for example, had a rather difficult time getting through. We had four characters with good to... well impresive stats. It may have been bad die rolls, or just an off night but... The Warforged and shifters managed to box us in between them in the narrow hallway where we first entered the sewer. The rogue and my sorcerer were desperately trying to find some way to stay out of melee with the shifters, while our warforged fighter couldn't seem to hit the enemy warforged to save his life. (I don't think I've ever seen anyone roll that many 1's.) After that there was a rather comical scene where the warforged wandered into the swarm, imagine a warforged, covered with beetles, jumping around slapping himself yelling "Get them off! Get them off!" The rats however, well we were walking along and suddenly they just appeared and attacked. Our Rogue went to 0 hit points with the first attack, and my Sorcerer went down to 1. We actually didn't have that much trouble with the Iron Defender or the final encounter, of course by that time we figured it was time to start seriously burning action points ;)
Twinblades 02-18-05, 06:18 AM	My group didn't find it too easy - in fact it was just about right for a party of 4 1st level characters (Human Monk, Kalashtar Telepath, Warforged Barbarian and Human Artificer). The telepath had put sufficient skill points into diplomacy and gather information to get them as far as the sewers without too much difficulty, but then things started going wrong. The ambush knocked out the telepath in one sneak attack (he had manifested vigor when they neared the bottom of the stairs which saved his life!) but even reduced to three they managed the rest of the fight fairly easily with a couple of good rolls. The artificer had prepared several scrolls of CLW so several rounds later (damned UMD checks..) the Psion was up on his feet again. The swarm was a bit of a breeze - the telepath used a couple of Energy Rays (fire) to significantly weaken it and they used oil flask molotov cocktails to disperse what was left without taking significant damage. The noise and light did bring out the horrid rats, but the barbarian used his rage and an action point or two to see them off in a brief (and very messy) clash. They were stumped for a couple of minutes by the Forge before the monk suggested someone giving him a bunk up onto the roof. He let down a rope and the party managed the ascent without too much difficulty. The Barbarian climbed down into the forge and was set upon by the Iron Defenders, and although they caused him a fair bit of damage they fell quite quickly under a hail of crossbow bolts and energy missiles, not to mention being smacked upside the head with a greatsword. But it was at this point that the fun really started... It turns out that the most dangerous encounter in the whole adventure for my party was descending and climbing the rope from the roof to inside the forge. A knotted rope. That's a climb DC 5. The monk had to use his last AP to avoid making a complete ass (not to mention a pavement pizza) of himself, the telepath just made the climb down, and the artificer with her negative climb modifier decided to stay on the roof with her crossbow to prevent anyone sneaking up. After they'd solved the puzzle (too easy) and retrieved the schema, they headed back to the roof. The telepath and monk made it safely (with another AP from the telepath!), and the barbarian failed miserably. He made one last ditch attempt to grab the rope (used an AP, but rolled a 1), missed, and down he went with a spectacular crash. Together with the damage he'd already received from the Iron Defenders, the fall was enough to knock him out. The monk volunteered to go back down and tie the rope round him so they could haul him back up to the artificer for repair, but also failed his check, lost his grip and fell on top of the barbarian. Only a spectacular feat of tumbling to break his fall prevented another KO, but he refused to come back up until the artificer lowered a potion of CLW to him! All in all they burned 3 APs, suffered one (and very nearly 2) KOs, had to use a potion of CLW (and all the artificer's remaining infusions on RLW) just to climb a DC 5 rope! Funnily enough, they were a bit hesitant to climb back down the outside of the forge. And that was before they even knew about the final ambush... The barbarian got shot in the back half way down the wall, fell (again) and seriously lost his rag. Fortunately he was on full hitpoints at that point, and survived the fall. Unfortunately for his opponent his unlucky streak on the d20s came to an abrupt end with a massive critical on his assailant, and the combat went pretty smoothly from that point. All in all the party enjoyed the adventure, they roleplayed the early bits well, had enough narrow scrapes with the combats to make them interesting, and came out of it feeling like they'd done a difficult job well. What more can a DM ask for?
Ricohard_Draconis 02-18-05, 06:22 AM	i'd just say that i think (and i don't have the ECS with me) that the adventure says that the rubble has fallen in such a way as to make an easy slope for them to climb up/down.
Twinblades 02-18-05, 06:44 AM	That's as maybe...but where's the fun in that? ;)
Setherial 02-18-05, 06:48 AM	A lot of the adventure and of playing Eberron/sharn in general should be having fun interacting with this rich environment and not just going from fight to fight. That said I believe a good DM should always adapt his challenge ratings during play. I usually throw a few easy fights at a new party I don't know yet to measure their strengths and then throw in less or more monsters for the next more important fights. To have a failsave in case I make a combat too heavy I usually make sure an NPC accompanies the party and have him balance the fight a bit. This way I try to keep my players on edge and drive important fights to the limit. Another thing I'm convinced is the right thing to do without letting your players know you are doing it is never to let your key villian die after one lucky blow. If you really underestimated the players and your villian turns out to be a disappointment don't show it, increase his HitPoints during combat, whatever it takes. It might not seem fair but your players expect a challenge and will be disappointed if they don't get it. Your primary job as a DM is to provide your players with a fun to play game, not to be strickt on the rules.
Mandarbgrim 02-18-05, 09:43 AM	I take it nobody just let the party open up the doors to leave? I was asuming they could be opened from the inside.
Makabriel 02-18-05, 11:48 AM	.... After they'd solved the puzzle (too easy) and retrieved the schema, .... Ok, how do you "solve" the puzzle? There are no hints to which order they are put in, so how can it be solved? I've read through it 3 or 4 times now and I'm stumped...
Mandarbgrim 02-18-05, 11:57 AM	There are no hints..it is kind of just guessing and trial and error. The worst that can happen is that the group gets shocked 3 times before they solve it. Mine only got shocked once.
Makabriel 02-18-05, 12:04 PM	There are no hints..it is kind of just guessing and trial and error. The worst that can happen is that the group gets shocked 3 times before they solve it. Mine only got shocked once. That's what I thought So who made their players make spot schecks for the metal grating? Or were you deviant enough to let it go unnoticed until they were zapped? :D
Eltarren 02-18-05, 12:33 PM	My players have found it somewhat difficult so far, but it's mostly due to their play style. My players are all good friends of mine, so I guess as DM I'm entitled to fudge a few rolls now and then for their sake. :P During the battle against the Warforged and the shifters, the cleric (I boosted my three PCs to level 2, BTW) gets critted and loses all his HP, but I fudged that roll so that he only took about 5 damage instead. The fighter/monk stayed in the back, afraid to get damaged. Yay for bravery. The kalashtar wilder tried to stay at a distance while the cleric absorbed all the damage. I think my group will enjoy the upcoming battles. At least they'd better, since two of the three really don't know their characters well and don't roleplay very well. It's all about battle at times.
HippoRider 02-18-05, 12:47 PM	I sovled the puzzle first try too. Spoiler Just start with the smallest number of side and count upwards.
caern.hallatheen 02-18-05, 12:52 PM	Ok, how do you "solve" the puzzle? There are no hints to which order they are put in, so how can it be solved? I've read through it 3 or 4 times now and I'm stumped... Well, there's only three things that would really make sense, right? Simultaneous entry, increase the number of sides, or decrease the number of sides. The latter one is rather weird, without anything to suggest it, so most people would opt for one of the first two. For the first group I DMd it was a split-second decision (the bard plays Myst games a lot). The other group started with simultaneous, got shocked, didn't see any pattern in sides, and then proceeded to cautiously shock itself a couple of more times. What I'm really kind of worried is the "puzzle" of the map in SoTLW. It's not really a puzzle at all. It seems that when the forge was operating, pretty much any low-level worker or guest or client within could figure out the locations of a few of House Cannith's top secret labs. I definetely have to figure out something more complicated for the first group.
Mandarbgrim 02-18-05, 12:56 PM	You can always assume that the building was more heavily guarded and there were other factors in place to prevent people that weren't privy to that information from being in the room...but it does seem a bit vexing. I am kinda worried the party won't figure the puzzle out without hints.
Mandarbgrim 02-18-05, 12:58 PM	Going from left to right works on the puzzle, as well. -Forgotten Forge-
Altaris 02-18-05, 03:02 PM	I got to play through the Forge, and had a lot of fun. We, rightly, focused on the RP. Right in the beginning, we got surprised by the warforged who killed the librarian. We wiped the floor with the Warforged and the two shifters, and managed to avoid the horrid rat. We did get pretty beat up in the final fight though. What I'm really kind of worried is the "puzzle" of the map in SoTLW. It's not really a puzzle at all. It seems that when the forge was operating, pretty much any low-level worker or guest or client within could figure out the locations of a few of House Cannith's top secret labs. I definetely have to figure out something more complicated for the first group. I disagree with this. I DM'ed SotLW and the players took two hours to figure it out, and I finaly had to give them a hint.
Evil Wizard 02-18-05, 04:02 PM	The party I was in had a bit of trouble with it, but only because we didn't bring enough rope and took a bunch of falling damage trying to get down the slope. Aheheh. Losing a bunch of hit points right off the bat made the next few battles that much harder. The warforged at the end with the flaming bolts was a neat surprise, though.
MarkB 02-18-05, 05:38 PM	I've just finished taking my local group through this. It wasn't overpowered, but was certainly challenging. In the sewer encounter, they were hampered by the cramped conditions, and couldn't get their front-line fighters into position, nor could the ranged specialists fire effectively through the cover of their fellow characters (a couple of them actually tried climbing on top of the party warforged to get a clear shot). They won in the end, but had to go back and rest before continuing. In the forge area, they took on the swarm and horrid rats successfully, but were still sufficiently hurt that they had to rest in the church. While they rested, Saber moved into his ambush position - which the players promptly explored the next morning, precipitating that encounter before they even approached the forge building. They won but were a little beaten up. They then spent long enough figuring out a way into the forge building that they had to take on another Horrid Rat in the interim. Taking on the Iron Defenders proved a nastier challenge - the Warforged dropped down through the hole first, and was slowly but surely chomped, whilst the others fired ineffectually from the roof, hampered by the fact that none of them had Precise Shot. In the end, two characters dropped to negative hitpoints before the iron defenders were put down. The forge trap zapped two of the PCs before they got the right combination, but fortunately a couple were still at full health, and they took the brunt of the damage. They rested once more within the Forge before they felt safe enough to return to the surface. So, no PC deaths, but definitely some nasty moments - and that was with a balanced party of six characters.
RamblingScribe 02-18-05, 07:42 PM	Interesting, My party are a group of six with good stats, so I had to up the ante to give them much of a challenge. I also gave them some more problem solving to do. I didn't have Elaydrin come after them, they had to find out where Bonal Geldam was going and track her down etc. My players were very clever though, and left no stray informationas to where they were going, and I couldn't justify the sewer ambush. At least initally. The horrid rats did some serious damage to the party, partly because one character attracted their attention while they were still fighting the beetle swarm (also I had added an extra rat). I felt the puzzle of the keys was too easy so I added an extra key (also an extra iron defender), and they solved it without getting shocked once. Again, the party did such a good job of guarding the whole area, I couldn't justify Saber being able to set up his ambush. On the other hand, they also threatened Skakan, which set me up with some good stuff. On the way back out, I hit them with an ambush in the sewrs consisting of Saber, three shifters, the warforged rogue, Skakan and four more goblins. I also put both of the warforged underwater to improve their stealth. Ironically, the party realized they were being ambushed and sent their warforged to scout ahead underwater, but he didn't see the other two until they started hammering him. That was a beautiful fight I'm going to change the puzzle in SotLW as well. I'm stealing a page from an old adventure from another game. Each of the statues will have four symbols on it that correspond to symbols on the map. If you draw an x between all four symbols, the place where they cross is the location you want. I'm a little worried that SotLW will be too easy as well, especially because the party has now completed 'The Queen With the Burning Eyes' as well. Once again, I had to forgo the pleasure of hitting the PC's with all of the ambush events since they managed to clear out the whole dungeon in one sweep. Vestan is going to have to bide his time until they get back from the mournland. I'm particularly worried that the PCs will wipe out Garrow the first time they meet him, or even the second. I might have to use a 'later' version of Garrow right off the bat to keep him alive. Craig Shackleton, The Rambling Scribe
Ellipsis 02-20-05, 02:04 PM	It turns out that the most dangerous encounter in the whole adventure for my party was descending and climbing the rope from the roof to inside the forge. A knotted rope. That's a climb DC 5. The monk had to use his last AP to avoid making a complete ass (not to mention a pavement pizza) of himself, the telepath just made the climb down, and the artificer with her negative climb modifier decided to stay on the roof with her crossbow to prevent anyone sneaking up. After they'd solved the puzzle (too easy) and retrieved the schema, they headed back to the roof. The telepath and monk made it safely (with another AP from the telepath!), and the barbarian failed miserably. He made one last ditch attempt to grab the rope (used an AP, but rolled a 1), missed, and down he went with a spectacular crash. Together with the damage he'd already received from the Iron Defenders, the fall was enough to knock him out. The monk volunteered to go back down and tie the rope round him so they could haul him back up to the artificer for repair, but also failed his check, lost his grip and fell on top of the barbarian. Only a spectacular feat of tumbling to break his fall prevented another KO, but he refused to come back up until the artificer lowered a potion of CLW to him! All in all they burned 3 APs, suffered one (and very nearly 2) KOs, had to use a potion of CLW (and all the artificer's remaining infusions on RLW) just to climb a DC 5 rope! That has got to be the funniest D&D story I've heard...
Kalanth 02-20-05, 02:18 PM	My party had little trouble with this one as well. That is, to say, except for one of the two rogues in the party. From the opening battle to the end, this rogue went down in every fight we had. And he was not charging in blind, he was playing his part smartly and carefully, but that saved him none. My Shaper nearly went down on one (minimum damage) hit from the first forge we fought, but managed to be the top killer in the party by the end. We struggled royally with the swarm, we kinda waisted our alchemists fire and oils before getting in there, and it was not until the artificer realized that he could bath his weapon in flame that we managed to get the upper hand. The final battle was the easiest. As I sat on top of the forgotten forge building the rest of the team battle away. When my Astral Construct dissapated I decided it was time to be a hero, lept from the top of the building in a diving spear and pinned the warforged to the ground. This is more spectacular because I have a 9 strength. With him pinned, the others in the group beat him to a metallic pulp. Ahh, good times. As was said, this adventure was fun because of the indepth roleplaying that the DM provided us. As an adventure in and of itself, its lackluster and dull really. When the DM and players spiced it up with witty banter and in character conversation, that made it more fun. I would gladly play this one again, as long as the group handled it as well from an RP standpoint.
snikt-snikt 02-20-05, 03:35 PM	I just finished DMing the forgotten forge--my party had a hard time--although it was mostly due to their own fault and bad die rolling. It took them forever to subdue the warforged on the bridge because one of the PCs decided to start a grapple with him. The grappling PC kept losing the grapple then getting back again. Thus, everyone had a very hard time hitting the warforged (due to their companion gettingin the way). The sewer encounter didn't go too bad for them although one PC cast obscuring mist on the whole area which made the whole encounter harder for all parties involved. The beetle kicked the PC's arses all the way back up the shaft to recover for three days. This was because they brought some fire but not enough. They retreated when the beetles were down to 2 hit points (unknown to them). The rats also dealt the PCs a huge blow although they took refuge in the temple and healed. It took the party a while to figure out how to get into the foundry. They must have spent 10min. rolling cooperative strength checks to open the door with and without the journal in hand. The iron defenders were a good challenge for my group but drained almost all of their resources (due to bad die rolling). The "puzzle" was easy. Thus when they were exiting the foundry they were mainly at half hit points with no spells or healing left (besides the unknown potions). Saber brought the PC ranger down to negative hit points with one of his shots (this PC had fallen every encounter). The warforged PC climbed down the back the foundry wall. The artificer tried to climb downthe wall failed, rolled a successful reflew to catch himself but the next turn failed his climb check and took falling damage which rendered him unconscious. The cleric PC also fell as the artificer did (failed climb, good reflex, failed climb) and was brought to 0 hit points. Fortunately for her she had all the unknown potions which she decided to risk it and drank two (healing and armor) and the warforged drank 2 (healing). So for the big melee end game fight against Saber--two of the party were stable but unconscious, the cleric had no spells and not even half hit points and the warforged barbarian almost at full. There was a stalemate for a while with some banter between the two warforged. Then I had Saber charge out of hiding at the lone warforged and deal him a good blow. Then the warforge barbarian while raging swung around and did a successful critical against Saber with his great axe!!! He dealt 44 damage to Saber in one frigging hit!!!! (no action points used, light fortification failed for Saber and the barbarian actually rolled good damage). It was incredible to say the least. Anyways I have bantered for WAY to long, sorry. with good role playing this adventure can be very good whether your party breezes through it or has a hard time (I mean they ARE first level come on) Cheers