Free the Bound Elementals? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Free the Bound Elementals? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CaPiCoPsYcHo
03-31-07, 03:33 PM The warforged PC in the game I run recently picked up Aquan (as well as the other 3 elemental languages) and began chatting it up with the water elemental bound to a Lyrander galleon while traveling to the Shadow Marches from Sharn. The warforged was shocked and appalled to find that the water elemental was not happy with its situation. This warforged unit values its freedom and the freedom of all thinking beings very highly, and angrily approached the captain of the airship to ask that the water elemental be released.
The warforged's main points were that the elemental was bound against its will, that ithad done no harm to anyone, and that all beings deserve freedom.
I had the captain counter with a few good points saying that it was his ship, elementals have been summoned and bound for thousands of years, that elementals are utterly foriegn to Eberron and invade routinely with each planar convergence, and that while the Treaty of Thronehold may have affirmed warforged rights, elementals still have no rights.
The warforged then asked the captain “If the Last War had not ended, would you use me as a slave?” so which the angry captain refused to answer and threatened to dump the non-breathing construct off the side of the ship.
The warforged backed down.

The initial conflict has past, but the player told me he is going to start looking for an “elemental rights” advocacy group when he gets back to Sharn.
What I’d like to ask is:
1. What kind of groups could I have him find when he starts asking around?
2. What kind of effect could these groups have on trade, transportation and politics?
3. What are some strong arguments for and against “elemental freedom”?

Thanks in advance for any input. :)
Moosh Nailo
03-31-07, 06:10 PM Magic of Eberron, page 34. A group called the Power of Purity. Started with a gnome wizard who "felt that more could be accomplished with the art of elemental binding by negotiating with the elementals."

It's basically an elemental rights group. "Negotiates with the elementals it binds into vessels and other items before the binding process begins, gaining permission, or at least acceptance, from the creatures."

It's a fairly interesting group, and could be adapted easily enough. Maybe make them a little more radical, even agressive in their stance. Raids on airships and the lightning rail, expressly to free the bound elementals, that kinda thing.

Your warforged shouldn't have much trouble fitting in, and I'd imagine he wouldn't have to try too hard to find the group. Perhaps hearing stories from the galleon's sailors?
Mayor_McFunkenstein
04-01-07, 02:18 AM I don't have the book right in front of me but isn't it the Power of Purity group that does most of the elemental binding in the first place? Aren't they the ones that stole the process from the Xen'drik drow? So then shouldn't it be that elemental vehicles that are built by the gnomes would have bound elementals that were either ok with their servitude or at least indifferent to it?

That being said, the idea of an elemental rights activist group sounds cool. So if the above is true according to the books, then totally ignore it.
The Fireballed Mage
04-01-07, 02:40 AM 3. What are some strong arguments for and against “elemental freedom”?

"I don't ask my horse if it wants to till the fields, why should I ask a bonfire?"

"You can talk to a wave?"

"The intellectual capacity of the standard bound elemental is barely above that of animals. While living, it possesses an alien mindset that focuses on what it is rather than who it is. For example: a fire elemental does not think about burning things: it is the burning. It has no existance beyond that. Bound into an airship it is allowed to burn. That is all it cares about, all it is. To ascribe humanoid emotions such as longing or feelings of entrapment to it is to engage in the most foolish of personifications."

"They fight when they're being put into an item, and they fight when they're set free from the item. If that's the case then it's safer to keep 'em in the item."

"I treat my bound elemental like I treat my horse. I groom, feed, and water my horse: it is well taken care of. I fix my bound elemental's item and ensure it's in good working order. It's well taken care of. It doesn't ask for anything else."

"I once saw a tornado flatten my cousin's house: killed her two kids. And you're telling me the air can think?! You're darn right I want those things bound into a 'shard where we can keep 'em safe!"

"You would have us destroy our bound elemental items --a keystone of our world's economy-- for something that can not speak our language? For something that will repay your misguided attempts by setting fire to our crops, blowing in fierce storms, drowning our people, and shaking the very core of Eberron itself? You sir, are as naive as you are foolish."

"When bound, elementals enter a kind of torpor. Any kind of higher mental activities they may have had are suppressed while they are encased in the Khyber Dragonshard. For them it is like a dream-state. What do you mean 'this is not the case'? I take great pride in my knowledge of such things and ask you not to make baseless comments!"

"Elementals are eternal: the air, the ground, the water, fire... all where here before you and all will exist long after we're gone. Maybe we are trapping them in these Dragonshards, but for an elemental 100 years is but the passing of a moment. They probably spend longer than that on a day-dream."

"See the fire in the hearth over there? Should I ask it if it wants to be free? Should I set it free? Should I let it turn to ash all the things we've built over the centuries? Fire is a tool, a fire elemental more so. Magic is what makes us great, makes us masters of the world around us. So somethings that's not even wholly part of this natural world is bound by our magics? So what?"

"This breeze is alive? Does it have arms, or legs? Does it have kids? A family? No? Then I don't care what you say, it's not really alive."

"Golems look alive, but aren't. The undead look alive, but aren't. Elementals? They might look like they're alive, but they really aren't. No, I don't have any ranks in knowledge (the planes), but I don't need no fancy schooling! I know what I know, and no pompus schooled boy is going to tell me otherwise!"

"Freedom? You jest. We are all trapped in some way. Fiends are trapped inside Khyber's dark coils. Khyber is trapped inside Eberron's enfolding rock. Mortals are trapped by ever-approaching death. Bounded elementals? Why... they are more true to themselves and the true nature of existance than anyone. Do not pity them, but rejoice that they touch the very truth that surrounds us."
Moblin
04-01-07, 04:10 AM <snip>
You've had this debate before haven't you ;)
Edymnion
04-01-07, 05:17 PM Yeah, its come up from time to time. ;)
RogueElement
04-02-07, 08:58 PM That being said, the idea of an elemental rights activist group sounds cool.
Using elementals to power vessels and equipment is very similar to using animals to power vessels and equipment. Many would argue that elementals are far more one-dimensional (no pun intended) than animals and wouldn't care where they were as long as they were allowed to do their thing (Fire elementals like to burn stuff, Water elementals like to pump water, etc), but I'm sure that some would disagree. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a grassroots "Humanoids for the Ethical Treatment of Elementals" organization in Eberron.

Quick conspiracy theory: anyone who hates the gnomes would love to fund an organization like that, hoping to weaken the gnome's power base in their elemental binding monopoly.
Sir Elton
04-02-07, 11:20 PM Oh, I'm sure that the many Wizard groups in Sharn would love to fund such a group, and then blame it on a well known evil group like the Blood of Vol.
:rolleyes:
Hellcow
04-03-07, 10:41 AM "The intellectual capacity of the standard bound elemental is barely above that of animals. While living, it possesses an alien mindset that focuses on what it is rather than who it is. For example: a fire elemental does not think about burning things: it is the burning. It has no existance beyond that. Bound into an airship it is allowed to burn. That is all it cares about, all it is. To ascribe humanoid emotions such as longing or feelings of entrapment to it is to engage in the most foolish of personifications."

"When bound, elementals enter a kind of torpor. Any kind of higher mental activities they may have had are suppressed while they are encased in the Khyber Dragonshard. For them it is like a dream-state... "
Both arguments I've put forward myself in the past. The point here is that it's really up to you to decide if you WANT it to be a deep moral issue, CaPiCoPsYcHo. If you take the first approach described above, it's not. If the elemental, while sentient, is in no way human, and is truly happy being able to BURN, regardless of whether it is bound or free, than you don't really have a problem.

On the other hand, since you've already had the character talk to the elemental and had it expressed a desire to be free, you're somewhat committed to that path. As elemental languages do exist, if elementals are conscious, fully aware, behave in a manner similar to humans, and actively wish to be freed, binding them does become a cruel and difficult to defend practice - though many of FBM's arguments can still be applied.

Again, I've always taken the approach that intelligence does NOT mean "possesses a psychology similar to a human". I consider elementals to be some of the most alien creatures out there. I'm certainly happy to leave some ambiguity as to whether they are happy or not, and elemental binding is supposed to be a practice worthy of debate. But in my campaign, the answer isn't as simple as just speaking with an elemental and asking if it's happy, because the response is more likely to be a stream of consciousness about fire, the burning, the first flame burns and burns beyond. The elemental has a LANGUAGE - what it lacks is any sort of common frame of reference with the tiny mortal who's used to living in a world of four elements.
Kid SixXx
04-03-07, 10:54 AM The warforged was shocked and appalled to find that the water elemental was not happy with its situation. This warforged unit values its freedom and the freedom of all thinking beings very highly, and angrily approached the captain of the airship to ask that the water elemental be released.

I would ask the meta question of what was the INT score of the elemental in question. If it was the INT score of a typical elemental, then you shouldn't have been having a full conversation with it.

The answer to any question you asked it (yep, I said "it.") should've been, "I am water, I make the waves." No more, no less.

It's my interpretation that the reason elementals resist capture and go nuts when released is the shock of not being in the plane of their origin and not necessarily because they realize that they've been "captured."

I am also usually quite surly when I step out of a wonderfully hot shower into a chilly bathroom, so I imagine that an elemental drawn from its home plane to this one is liable to be a thousandfold times more grumpy.

Your DM colored the situation by imposing his own moral standards into the situation instead of allowing you guys to come up with your own conclusions.

The reason you assume that elemental control is tantamount to slavery is because your DM has positioned you to think that way via the encounter.

3. What are some strong arguments for and against “elemental freedom”?

Besides the obvious economics issues, an elemental should be no more aware of it's capture than an ox is of being in a yoke and plowing a field.

The elemental inside of a containment ring is pretty much free to do whatever it normally does (burn, make waves, create wind), only its power has been harnessed. Once the elemental is in the containment ring, it is docile because the ring shields the elemental from the shock of being in the Prime Materiel Plane & the elemental is free to do the things that elementals do, only this time in the confines of the ring.
arjomanes
04-03-07, 11:47 AM How do the Ashbound feel about the bound elementals?

It might seem hypocritical for druids to complain about others summoning and commanding elementals, since they do the same thing; however, some druids could see a very sharp difference between commanding an elemental for a minute to serve the cause of nature and binding one to a machine permanently for the purpose of industry.

The Ashbound are already militantly opposed to arcane magic, magical technology and urbanization.

On the other hand, it seems very unlikely that they would work directly with a warforged, though they may attempt to use the warforged, or another organization the warforged joins could have radical members that are Ashbound.
Chimaera2000
04-10-07, 02:55 AM I'm contemplating this very issue in and out of character for my warforged artificer. On one hand, elemental-bound items can be quite potent; on the other hand, he's very firmly against the idea of enslaving sentient beings (as the warforged were in this setting). The question is, of course, whether elementals can be considered sentient, which will vary from campaign to campaign.
Edymnion
04-10-07, 09:01 PM Of course, there is a stop-gap between these two extremes.
What if the elemental WANTED to be bound? With the level of magic we're talking about to summon an elemental of suitable size and bind it, the extra magic needed to pick out one that is about to die isn't much more trouble. You summon and bind an elemental that just lost a fight as is nearly destroyed. In exchange for service, you give it a safe place to recouperate.
goblin_pride
04-11-07, 12:52 AM In exchange for service, you give it a safe place to recouperate.

And eventually break out of once it's strength returns.

Have I mentioned lately that you're Evil, Edy?
Just another user
04-11-07, 09:04 AM I would ask the meta question of what was the INT score of the elemental in question. If it was the INT score of a typical elemental, then you shouldn't have been having a full conversation with it.

The answer to any question you asked it (yep, I said "it.") should've been, "I am water, I make the waves." No more, no less.

Even if elementals could talk I doubt you can talk to one while it is bound into an item.
What I think really happened is that a wizard/bard/ on the ship used Ventriloquism to play a prank on that warforged, he just failed the spot check to notice him snicker :D
Sereno
04-11-07, 09:52 AM Both arguments I've put forward myself in the past. The point here is that it's really up to you to decide if you WANT it to be a deep moral issue, CaPiCoPsYcHo. If you take the first approach described above, it's not. If the elemental, while sentient, is in no way human, and is truly happy being able to BURN, regardless of whether it is bound or free, than you don't really have a problem.

You can even have it both ways ... nothing in the RAW says that *every* elemental thinks about things the same way.

There could be some who are resentful of their "captivity" and others who don't feel captive at all because they get to do what it is they're designed to do.

Just because PETE (People for the Ethical Treatment of Elementals) believes that every elemental is suffering in being bound doesn't mean that they're *right*.
Edymnion
04-11-07, 06:07 PM And eventually break out of once it's strength returns.

Have I mentioned lately that you're Evil, Edy?I may have heard somebody else mention it in passing. ;)
But yeah, what if every bound elemental in Eberron is actually injured and weakened? If it takes decades for an elemental to heal itself, then that would mean the time is just about right for the first ones bound to start deciding that they're good to go on their own, and start breaking free.
The Wilgar
04-11-07, 08:28 PM Just because PETE (People for the Ethical Treatment of Elementals) believes that every elemental is suffering in being bound doesn't mean that they're *right*.

PETE! That's awesome! :rofl:

I may have heard somebody else mention it in passing. ;)
But yeah, what if every bound elemental in Eberron is actually injured and weakened? If it takes decades for an elemental to heal itself, then that would mean the time is just about right for the first ones bound to start deciding that they're good to go on their own, and start breaking free.

Elemental 3: Rise of the Bound Items?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CaPiCoPsYcHo 03-31-07, 03:33 PM	The warforged PC in the game I run recently picked up Aquan (as well as the other 3 elemental languages) and began chatting it up with the water elemental bound to a Lyrander galleon while traveling to the Shadow Marches from Sharn. The warforged was shocked and appalled to find that the water elemental was not happy with its situation. This warforged unit values its freedom and the freedom of all thinking beings very highly, and angrily approached the captain of the airship to ask that the water elemental be released. The warforged's main points were that the elemental was bound against its will, that ithad done no harm to anyone, and that all beings deserve freedom. I had the captain counter with a few good points saying that it was his ship, elementals have been summoned and bound for thousands of years, that elementals are utterly foriegn to Eberron and invade routinely with each planar convergence, and that while the Treaty of Thronehold may have affirmed warforged rights, elementals still have no rights. The warforged then asked the captain “If the Last War had not ended, would you use me as a slave?” so which the angry captain refused to answer and threatened to dump the non-breathing construct off the side of the ship. The warforged backed down. The initial conflict has past, but the player told me he is going to start looking for an “elemental rights” advocacy group when he gets back to Sharn. What I’d like to ask is: 1. What kind of groups could I have him find when he starts asking around? 2. What kind of effect could these groups have on trade, transportation and politics? 3. What are some strong arguments for and against “elemental freedom”? Thanks in advance for any input. :)
Moosh Nailo 03-31-07, 06:10 PM	Magic of Eberron, page 34. A group called the Power of Purity. Started with a gnome wizard who "felt that more could be accomplished with the art of elemental binding by negotiating with the elementals." It's basically an elemental rights group. "Negotiates with the elementals it binds into vessels and other items before the binding process begins, gaining permission, or at least acceptance, from the creatures." It's a fairly interesting group, and could be adapted easily enough. Maybe make them a little more radical, even agressive in their stance. Raids on airships and the lightning rail, expressly to free the bound elementals, that kinda thing. Your warforged shouldn't have much trouble fitting in, and I'd imagine he wouldn't have to try too hard to find the group. Perhaps hearing stories from the galleon's sailors?
Mayor_McFunkenstein 04-01-07, 02:18 AM	I don't have the book right in front of me but isn't it the Power of Purity group that does most of the elemental binding in the first place? Aren't they the ones that stole the process from the Xen'drik drow? So then shouldn't it be that elemental vehicles that are built by the gnomes would have bound elementals that were either ok with their servitude or at least indifferent to it? That being said, the idea of an elemental rights activist group sounds cool. So if the above is true according to the books, then totally ignore it.
The Fireballed Mage 04-01-07, 02:40 AM	3. What are some strong arguments for and against “elemental freedom”? "I don't ask my horse if it wants to till the fields, why should I ask a bonfire?" "You can talk to a wave?" "The intellectual capacity of the standard bound elemental is barely above that of animals. While living, it possesses an alien mindset that focuses on what it is rather than who it is. For example: a fire elemental does not think about burning things: it is the burning. It has no existance beyond that. Bound into an airship it is allowed to burn. That is all it cares about, all it is. To ascribe humanoid emotions such as longing or feelings of entrapment to it is to engage in the most foolish of personifications." "They fight when they're being put into an item, and they fight when they're set free from the item. If that's the case then it's safer to keep 'em in the item." "I treat my bound elemental like I treat my horse. I groom, feed, and water my horse: it is well taken care of. I fix my bound elemental's item and ensure it's in good working order. It's well taken care of. It doesn't ask for anything else." "I once saw a tornado flatten my cousin's house: killed her two kids. And you're telling me the air can think?! You're darn right I want those things bound into a 'shard where we can keep 'em safe!" "You would have us destroy our bound elemental items --a keystone of our world's economy-- for something that can not speak our language? For something that will repay your misguided attempts by setting fire to our crops, blowing in fierce storms, drowning our people, and shaking the very core of Eberron itself? You sir, are as naive as you are foolish." "When bound, elementals enter a kind of torpor. Any kind of higher mental activities they may have had are suppressed while they are encased in the Khyber Dragonshard. For them it is like a dream-state. What do you mean 'this is not the case'? I take great pride in my knowledge of such things and ask you not to make baseless comments!" "Elementals are eternal: the air, the ground, the water, fire... all where here before you and all will exist long after we're gone. Maybe we are trapping them in these Dragonshards, but for an elemental 100 years is but the passing of a moment. They probably spend longer than that on a day-dream." "See the fire in the hearth over there? Should I ask it if it wants to be free? Should I set it free? Should I let it turn to ash all the things we've built over the centuries? Fire is a tool, a fire elemental more so. Magic is what makes us great, makes us masters of the world around us. So somethings that's not even wholly part of this natural world is bound by our magics? So what?" "This breeze is alive? Does it have arms, or legs? Does it have kids? A family? No? Then I don't care what you say, it's not really alive." "Golems look alive, but aren't. The undead look alive, but aren't. Elementals? They might look like they're alive, but they really aren't. No, I don't have any ranks in knowledge (the planes), but I don't need no fancy schooling! I know what I know, and no pompus schooled boy is going to tell me otherwise!" "Freedom? You jest. We are all trapped in some way. Fiends are trapped inside Khyber's dark coils. Khyber is trapped inside Eberron's enfolding rock. Mortals are trapped by ever-approaching death. Bounded elementals? Why... they are more true to themselves and the true nature of existance than anyone. Do not pity them, but rejoice that they touch the very truth that surrounds us."
Moblin 04-01-07, 04:10 AM	<snip> You've had this debate before haven't you ;)
Edymnion 04-01-07, 05:17 PM	Yeah, its come up from time to time. ;)
RogueElement 04-02-07, 08:58 PM	That being said, the idea of an elemental rights activist group sounds cool. Using elementals to power vessels and equipment is very similar to using animals to power vessels and equipment. Many would argue that elementals are far more one-dimensional (no pun intended) than animals and wouldn't care where they were as long as they were allowed to do their thing (Fire elementals like to burn stuff, Water elementals like to pump water, etc), but I'm sure that some would disagree. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a grassroots "Humanoids for the Ethical Treatment of Elementals" organization in Eberron. Quick conspiracy theory: anyone who hates the gnomes would love to fund an organization like that, hoping to weaken the gnome's power base in their elemental binding monopoly.
Sir Elton 04-02-07, 11:20 PM	Oh, I'm sure that the many Wizard groups in Sharn would love to fund such a group, and then blame it on a well known evil group like the Blood of Vol. :rolleyes:
Hellcow 04-03-07, 10:41 AM	"The intellectual capacity of the standard bound elemental is barely above that of animals. While living, it possesses an alien mindset that focuses on what it is rather than who it is. For example: a fire elemental does not think about burning things: it is the burning. It has no existance beyond that. Bound into an airship it is allowed to burn. That is all it cares about, all it is. To ascribe humanoid emotions such as longing or feelings of entrapment to it is to engage in the most foolish of personifications." "When bound, elementals enter a kind of torpor. Any kind of higher mental activities they may have had are suppressed while they are encased in the Khyber Dragonshard. For them it is like a dream-state... " Both arguments I've put forward myself in the past. The point here is that it's really up to you to decide if you WANT it to be a deep moral issue, CaPiCoPsYcHo. If you take the first approach described above, it's not. If the elemental, while sentient, is in no way human, and is truly happy being able to BURN, regardless of whether it is bound or free, than you don't really have a problem. On the other hand, since you've already had the character talk to the elemental and had it expressed a desire to be free, you're somewhat committed to that path. As elemental languages do exist, if elementals are conscious, fully aware, behave in a manner similar to humans, and actively wish to be freed, binding them does become a cruel and difficult to defend practice - though many of FBM's arguments can still be applied. Again, I've always taken the approach that intelligence does NOT mean "possesses a psychology similar to a human". I consider elementals to be some of the most alien creatures out there. I'm certainly happy to leave some ambiguity as to whether they are happy or not, and elemental binding is supposed to be a practice worthy of debate. But in my campaign, the answer isn't as simple as just speaking with an elemental and asking if it's happy, because the response is more likely to be a stream of consciousness about fire, the burning, the first flame burns and burns beyond. The elemental has a LANGUAGE - what it lacks is any sort of common frame of reference with the tiny mortal who's used to living in a world of four elements.
Kid SixXx 04-03-07, 10:54 AM	The warforged was shocked and appalled to find that the water elemental was not happy with its situation. This warforged unit values its freedom and the freedom of all thinking beings very highly, and angrily approached the captain of the airship to ask that the water elemental be released. I would ask the meta question of what was the INT score of the elemental in question. If it was the INT score of a typical elemental, then you shouldn't have been having a full conversation with it. The answer to any question you asked it (yep, I said "it.") should've been, "I am water, I make the waves." No more, no less. It's my interpretation that the reason elementals resist capture and go nuts when released is the shock of not being in the plane of their origin and not necessarily because they realize that they've been "captured." I am also usually quite surly when I step out of a wonderfully hot shower into a chilly bathroom, so I imagine that an elemental drawn from its home plane to this one is liable to be a thousandfold times more grumpy. Your DM colored the situation by imposing his own moral standards into the situation instead of allowing you guys to come up with your own conclusions. The reason you assume that elemental control is tantamount to slavery is because your DM has positioned you to think that way via the encounter. 3. What are some strong arguments for and against “elemental freedom”? Besides the obvious economics issues, an elemental should be no more aware of it's capture than an ox is of being in a yoke and plowing a field. The elemental inside of a containment ring is pretty much free to do whatever it normally does (burn, make waves, create wind), only its power has been harnessed. Once the elemental is in the containment ring, it is docile because the ring shields the elemental from the shock of being in the Prime Materiel Plane & the elemental is free to do the things that elementals do, only this time in the confines of the ring.
arjomanes 04-03-07, 11:47 AM	How do the Ashbound feel about the bound elementals? It might seem hypocritical for druids to complain about others summoning and commanding elementals, since they do the same thing; however, some druids could see a very sharp difference between commanding an elemental for a minute to serve the cause of nature and binding one to a machine permanently for the purpose of industry. The Ashbound are already militantly opposed to arcane magic, magical technology and urbanization. On the other hand, it seems very unlikely that they would work directly with a warforged, though they may attempt to use the warforged, or another organization the warforged joins could have radical members that are Ashbound.
Chimaera2000 04-10-07, 02:55 AM	I'm contemplating this very issue in and out of character for my warforged artificer. On one hand, elemental-bound items can be quite potent; on the other hand, he's very firmly against the idea of enslaving sentient beings (as the warforged were in this setting). The question is, of course, whether elementals can be considered sentient, which will vary from campaign to campaign.
Edymnion 04-10-07, 09:01 PM	Of course, there is a stop-gap between these two extremes. What if the elemental WANTED to be bound? With the level of magic we're talking about to summon an elemental of suitable size and bind it, the extra magic needed to pick out one that is about to die isn't much more trouble. You summon and bind an elemental that just lost a fight as is nearly destroyed. In exchange for service, you give it a safe place to recouperate.
goblin_pride 04-11-07, 12:52 AM	In exchange for service, you give it a safe place to recouperate. And eventually break out of once it's strength returns. Have I mentioned lately that you're Evil, Edy?
Just another user 04-11-07, 09:04 AM	I would ask the meta question of what was the INT score of the elemental in question. If it was the INT score of a typical elemental, then you shouldn't have been having a full conversation with it. The answer to any question you asked it (yep, I said "it.") should've been, "I am water, I make the waves." No more, no less. Even if elementals could talk I doubt you can talk to one while it is bound into an item. What I think really happened is that a wizard/bard/ on the ship used Ventriloquism to play a prank on that warforged, he just failed the spot check to notice him snicker :D
Sereno 04-11-07, 09:52 AM	Both arguments I've put forward myself in the past. The point here is that it's really up to you to decide if you WANT it to be a deep moral issue, CaPiCoPsYcHo. If you take the first approach described above, it's not. If the elemental, while sentient, is in no way human, and is truly happy being able to BURN, regardless of whether it is bound or free, than you don't really have a problem. You can even have it both ways ... nothing in the RAW says that every elemental thinks about things the same way. There could be some who are resentful of their "captivity" and others who don't feel captive at all because they get to do what it is they're designed to do. Just because PETE (People for the Ethical Treatment of Elementals) believes that every elemental is suffering in being bound doesn't mean that they're right.
Edymnion 04-11-07, 06:07 PM	And eventually break out of once it's strength returns. Have I mentioned lately that you're Evil, Edy?I may have heard somebody else mention it in passing. ;) But yeah, what if every bound elemental in Eberron is actually injured and weakened? If it takes decades for an elemental to heal itself, then that would mean the time is just about right for the first ones bound to start deciding that they're good to go on their own, and start breaking free.
The Wilgar 04-11-07, 08:28 PM	Just because PETE (People for the Ethical Treatment of Elementals) believes that every elemental is suffering in being bound doesn't mean that they're right. PETE! That's awesome! :rofl: I may have heard somebody else mention it in passing. ;) But yeah, what if every bound elemental in Eberron is actually injured and weakened? If it takes decades for an elemental to heal itself, then that would mean the time is just about right for the first ones bound to start deciding that they're good to go on their own, and start breaking free. Elemental 3: Rise of the Bound Items?