Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hellfirewyrm 02-09-07, 09:49 AM	Do you think it'd be possible for characters to do genetic engineering in Eberron?
Logos7 02-09-07, 09:52 AM	people have been doing genetic engerring for thousands of years, its called animal husbandry and domestication. Do i think the PC's are going to have access to a modern lab in eberron , well not in mine, but as vandalis shows the effects of magic on the above are amusing if nothingi else
hellfirewyrm 02-09-07, 09:54 AM	hrm, ok. I'm DMing a game and the idea of engineering superpeople came up. Then I thought it would be interesting if some "mad" scientistish character decided to take the warforged to the next level and create humans. They would be non-playable of course and mainly very difficult adversaries. But all in all, I wondered if it seemed plausible.
Alex_ 02-09-07, 10:32 AM	If you're going for the idea of a mad scientist creating some horrible abomination... The Daelkyr are masters of this, as many of the abberations that exist in Eberron are products of their modifications of earlier creatures into those for specific tasks. There are also creatures like hommoculi and flesh golems, grafts, and transmutation magic. You may also want to check out Lords of Madness book for some of the feats and prestige classes. In Droaam, there's a wizard who was exiled from the Twelve specifically for this kind of research. So yes, not only is it plausible, but there are prominent examples of it taking place in the world. It is generally considered vile and unacceptable though.
Bluebrush 02-09-07, 10:34 AM	It is generally considered vile and unacceptable though.What if you're just trying to breed locust resistant tomatoes or something?
Euangelion 02-09-07, 10:44 AM	One could argue that magebred and horrid creatures are effectively genetically engineered with magic. Maybe we could come up with a term along the lines of "eugenics" that would emphasize the magical aspect of the process in Eberron. Totally brainstorming here: eugenmancy/eugenmancer, eugenmuter, genetic artificer, whatever.
Salla 02-09-07, 01:27 PM	It'd be magical instead of scientific (assuming you don't consider magic to be a science), but yes, it's certainly possible to go all mad scientist in Eberron. :)
Nived 02-09-07, 03:07 PM	Magebred animals. Horrid animals. Grafting. various templates you can add to humanoids... (feral comes to mind) Yeah you can do it. Just don't make it easy for your characters to do to themselves... these are things that need to be 'grown'. So my suggestion is go with a long lived race (gnome, elf, dwarf) who's old and has been experimenting on shorter lived races (Humans, goblins, orcs, half-orcs.)
Darth Syntax 02-09-07, 04:24 PM	In Droaam, there's a wizard who was exiled from the Twelve specifically for this kind of research. So yes, not only is it plausible, but there are prominent examples of it taking place in the world. Ah Mordain the Fleshweaver, one of my favorite characters in the setting. I always invisioned him as a cross between Dr. Moreau, and Dr. Prunesqualor (of Gormenghast fame). Sure he's crazy (in that sort of too-sane sort of way that really gives you the creeps, as it makes so much sense *shudder*) and his experiments with living subjects are considered horrific, but there may well be a purpose to these horrific undertaking. Mordain, in my imagining, is actually something of a philanthropist. He wants to rid the world of all its frailties (like disease, the fact that primates cannot synthesize their own vitamin C, near sightedness, the dependency on sleep, pain, and so on), he's just willing to go to all sorts of horrific ends to accomplish this task. He also experiments on himself and is no longer just an elf with an unhealthy interest in the inner workings of beings. If you want customized biological items (say a pair of grafted eyes that grant you arcane sight, true seeing, and generally excellent vision that are somehow still your eyes) then you go to Mordain, and you pay his price , but it will not be pleasant. Although I hear he is otherwise a fantastic host, he doesn't normally get much company.
Just another user 02-09-07, 05:02 PM	What if you're just trying to breed locust resistant tomatoes or something? Oh, they always start that way, then something go wrong and you have the night of the killer tomatoes. :)
SquirrelMortis 02-09-07, 05:49 PM	Ah Mordain the Fleshweaver, one of my favorite characters in the setting. I always invisioned him as a cross between Dr. Moreau, and Dr. Prunesqualor (of Gormenghast fame). Sure he's crazy (in that sort of too-sane sort of way that really gives you the creeps, as it makes so much sense *shudder*) and his experiments with living subjects are considered horrific, but there may well be a purpose to these horrific undertaking. Mordain, in my imagining, is actually something of a philanthropist. He wants to rid the world of all its frailties (like disease, the fact that primates cannot synthesize their own vitamin C, near sightedness, the dependency on sleep, pain, and so on), he's just willing to go to all sorts of horrific ends to accomplish this task. He also experiments on himself and is no longer just an elf with an unhealthy interest in the inner workings of beings. If you want customized biological items (say a pair of grafted eyes that grant you arcane sight, true seeing, and generally excellent vision that are somehow still your eyes) then you go to Mordain, and you pay his price , but it will not be pleasant. Although I hear he is otherwise a fantastic host, he doesn't normally get much company. Sounds familiar... Prepare to be...Upgraded. "And what happens if I refuse?" "DON'T REFUSE!" Delete, Delete! Sorry, just some Cyber-madness...:D
Bluebrush 02-09-07, 07:31 PM	Oh, they always start that way, then something go wrong and you have the night of the killer tomatoes. :)I thought it was "Attack of"...
Count Nerindil Van Seraph 02-09-07, 07:45 PM	I thought it was "Attack of"... Best crappy B-movie ever!
Belabras 02-09-07, 07:47 PM	Sounds familiar... Prepare to be...Upgraded. "And what happens if I refuse?" "DON'T REFUSE!" Delete, Delete! Sorry, just some Cyber-madness...:D Upgrading is compulsory.
SquirrelMortis 02-10-07, 11:51 AM	Upgrading is compulsory. :dancin: :dancin: :bounce: :dancin: :dancin:
Rocksa 02-10-07, 04:59 PM	Personally I've always liked the idea of making a super secret sub-sect of The Twelve that are devoted to creating the perfect beings. More or less it'd be a group that only select individuals within The Twelve even knew existed. They'd basically be people trying to improve upon the dragonmarks and make it so that they could force them to manifest in people with greater powers, as well as doing crazy stuff like making better soldiers, more accurately super soldiers, seeing as how the warforged proved to not be totally controllable and all, as well as magebred humans, elves, and such. Just thought that something like that would make for a great campaign, especially when you toss in things like PC's with supernatural abilities...well, supernatural beyond the crazy things that PC's are able to do with enough levels...anyway, that and the fact that if the dragons found out about the dragonmark experiments they'd likely reduce Khorvaire to ash. Not to mention what the public at large would do if they found out about it. Maybe the PC's are escaped experiments, maybe they were deemed failures at a young age and somehow managed to be placed out of the labs and out of the group's minds and grew up as a normal person who could just, well, do stuff. Or maybe the PC's just found something out that they shouldn't have, and now they have to stop the group without letting the dragons find out. I mean, come on, even in the normal history of Eberron there has to be some kind of referrence to House Vadilis at least trying to make a magebred human. Then there's the fleshwarpers, that one guild of mages in Sharn who experimented with making Daelkyr symbionts, the Daelkyr, and just so many more people who can do these crazy things with altering living people, and it just seems like there's nothing big done with it. With all the templates that would be so easily applied to creatures in Eberron, and all the people capable of changing a creature, it just seems like the whole idea of genetic engineering is overlooked in Eberron. I don't know, maybe I'm ranting, but it seems like there's just so much more that could have been done in this department. Maybe it's just me but it just seems like there should be more crazy mutant people walking around Sharn.
UnderworldLord 02-10-07, 08:24 PM	My game is going to start in Aundair... but I'm so yoinking your idea of the PCs beings escaped test subjects.
Romulus LoneWolf 02-11-07, 09:37 AM	Sounds familiar... Prepare to be...Upgraded. "And what happens if I refuse?" "DON'T REFUSE!" Delete, Delete! Sorry, just some Cyber-madness...:D Sounds like a good excuse for another Template, created by a mad Cannix Artificer..
The Fireballed Mage 02-11-07, 08:10 PM	Do you think it'd be possible for characters to do genetic engineering in Eberron? As others have mentioned, the Dealkyr and Moradin the Fleshweaver are the premier users/abusers of exotic genetic engineering/magical augmentation. And others have also correctly mentioned, magebred animals are a kind of more-progressive genetic engineering. I usually have a small sub-set of House Vadalis attempting to add the magebred template onto to sentient creatures. You know, the "We've improved animals, just imagine how we could improve humanity!" These sick and twisted (or bold and inovative) people usually work with the members of House Jorasco who run the Healer's sanatoriums. After all, nothing like having horrific experiments conducted on the poor insane people locked up in the asylums to bring out that Noir feel. And, as an added bonus, it makes bad guys out of (subsets) of the Handlers Guild and the Healers Guild. Not too many players expect them to be the BBEG.
UnderworldLord 02-11-07, 08:17 PM	I'm starting in Aundair, so I've come up with an idea after this thread: the PCs are genetic experiments, set loose. They just haven't been clued in yet. I'm using the Towers of Arcanix as the place they might have been spawned, and I'm thinking the Arcane Congress might be responsible. I plan to somehow put the lords ofdust in there. Perhaps trying to recruit them, though I've forbidden the evil alignment from my game for sake of this being my whole fourth time to DM. Any comments?
Korhal_IV 02-12-07, 01:22 AM	House Vadalis, essentially, is the biotech laboratory of Khorvaire. Not only do they have the fastest horses (barring Valenar mysticism), they outfitted Brelish cavalry with DIRE BEARS, and Boranel walks around all the time followed by a pair of dire tigers, one of which mauled his child. Jaela is guarded by Skaravogen (iirc), a six-legged "dragonhound" that is nearly impossible to kill and will never stop chasing someone who attacks or harms her. I'm sure other examples of House Vadalis bioengineering abound throughout the books. These are not your ordinary horse-breeders, folks. I'm sure there's a handful of "magebred" humans wandering around today. ;) Hmm. That might make a good explanation for Karsites (Tome of Magic), or half-daelkyr (in a way that doesn't require a pregnant lady to spend copious time chatting with insane alien gods and get out alive).
SquirrelMortis 02-12-07, 03:57 AM	Sounds like a good excuse for another Template, created by a mad Cannix Artificer.. The Age of Steel!
UnderworldLord 02-12-07, 11:53 AM	Half Golems... would those be more House Cannith [ie, one of the Tales from the Last War]? Or would House Vadalis be interested in how to combine the human genome and the golem creation magics? Perhaps a joint venture? I'm thinking Arcanix will crash, and Vadalis and Cannith will both be in ruins by this campaigns end...
Nived 02-12-07, 01:04 PM	There is precedence for magebred humans. In Dragonmarked the capstone ability of the House V PrC was being able to add the Magebred template to yourself.
Nived 02-12-07, 01:42 PM	This thread has really gotten my creative juices flowing. I've been thinking of starting a more pulp episodic campaign.. but my trouble was trying to come up with a unifying theme between these adventures. This thread may have finally done it. My key idea has for a long time been tying the PCs to the Aquisitions Directorate of The Twelve (detailed in the Explorer's Handbook) giving my players the much needed free reign to loot and plunder that they often like. With this model I could create many different dungeons in many regions of the world (that suit my fancy). That are by and large seemingly unconnected other than the PCs trying to ransack the place. Which my gamers enjoy doing (I blame Dungeon Magazine's Plunderer's Handbook article a number of years ago on how to steal everything not nailed down in a dungeon and remember to bring a crowbar for everything else). Seem to have these adventures unconnected but in actuality be building to something... I just never knew what. This thread has given me the idea of haveing a rogue faction of The Twelve (is there any other kind really?), a group of professors from the various houses broke into the sealed research records of Mordain d'Phiarlan a number of years ago and have been trying to recreate his work for their own reasons. These men would of course all be doing it for the noblest of reasons, cure disease, get rid of the frailties inheirant in mortals... etc. Though after years of this they'd all be flippin mad. Gone too far... magicalscience gone ary. Horrific genetic reasearch, experiments leading to monsters, the whole bit... of course none of this would come up till much much later in the campaign. These men, or perhaps one professor in particular, would be the patron for their expeditions. Sending them to Xen'drik to seach forgotten giant ruins for the origins of grafting magic. Plumbing the depts of the Mror holds to unearth magics of the lost kingdom of Dwarves and perhaps bring back a Neogi... preferably alive. Obtaining symbiote specimins from mad cults in the swamps of the Shadow Marches. Facing Aberrations in kyber to obtain some secret of the Daelkyr. Treking through the mournlands to retrieve somelost schema relating to contruct grafting from some Cannith facility. Eventually attempting to retrieve a rare tome from Mordain himself that his old notes made referance to. In the end the party might get some idea about what's going on, or maybe by that point they've allow'd themselves to be grafted one way or another... in the end though they'd find out exactly what their hard work has wrought, they'd see what has been created with what they've discovered. While the professors would posess PrCs like Renegade Master Makera, or fleshwarpers. Cue the fight music.
yossarius 02-12-07, 03:44 PM	About 15 years ago Mayfair Games released this awesome real world near future RPG called Underground, where one of the main story points was that the PCs were all genetically enhanced, to the point of minor supermen. The problem was that the process of genetic enhancement wasn't entirely understood (like that has ever stopped us before), and so the process drove its subjects nuts. Part of the character creation process was determining which psychosis your PC manifests. It was great. Imagine Marvel Comic's Thing from Fantastic Four having a bipolar crash in the middle of combat, or Spiderman going on a homicidal rampage when he gets too stressed out. I can totally see these superpowered NPCs completely loosing it in the middle of the Bazaar in Sharn and killing a dozen people, and the PCs are hired to find him. Eberron meets Marvel Comics meets the movie First Blood.
UnderworldLord 02-12-07, 08:23 PM	You people are awesome. I think I might gnab bits of both of those to work on my campaign. A half-clay golem human rogue/fighter who's artificial portions are quite lifelike, and he uses minor magic to make them look perfectly real. The Arcane Congress, however, will be what I use, since I'm in Aundair. I'll probably throw some full metal alchemist Scar style traits on my guy. Perhaps even give him an associate who made him a homunc or two. I'm making a variant of the rules about giving someone else your exp, except that now you also add your blood and the homunc would be connected to you instead of the creator. In my game, however, the PCs are also altered humans, but have no idea. I might make them chase down some odds and ends for the Congress, and perhaps have a few rogue Cannith Artificers and Vadalis breeders put in there to make it seem more legit to them. But they aren't wanting to make cures for disease here: they want supersoldiers to fight off Karnnath and Thrane so they can start the next war. They will of course need the PCs to kill certain targets, so missions won't always be 'fact finding'. I just need a way to tie in the lords of dust, and figure out why they are in Passage and have no idea that the arcane congress created them.
Logos7 02-12-07, 08:32 PM	well, I done and done it My Players just Defeated the Human-Gnome Project a organization dedicated to maping out the magical essenence of humans and gnomes. Sadly was destroyed after the matron of the project went insane and started trying to force gnomes and humans together by smashing them with enough magic to level city blocks ( Nothing quite like Staffs of Power Imploding on huge Psionic Anvils/Bells [The Cerebell ;)] to attempt to smush together humans and gnomes Afterwards the party being caught in the transplanar rift gets sucked into Risia at level 4, along with the world's first or second Home, the Human Gnome. ( Who Could stop a adaptable, hardy human gnome afterall!) Logos
UnderworldLord 02-12-07, 09:02 PM	We should stop making half- templates, and just make a half-human template. Let it reduce all the base creatures stats, and remove la.
allenchan 02-12-07, 09:53 PM	Lets not forget another fairly important sect genetic engineering in Eberron: The Inspired. Every last Chosen has been genetically engineered through human eugenics and mixing in elf and fiend blood. ps: The Xeph are also a race created through mastering eugenics, somewhat similiar.
UnderworldLord 02-12-07, 09:56 PM	Depending on how you look at the Xeph. If I'm thinking of the correct race, then doesn't it say they were designed as prisoners for rogue Quori? So if that was true, wouldn't they be more like... accidents of eugenics or something?
allenchan 02-12-07, 10:00 PM	Depending on how you look at the Xeph. If I'm thinking of the correct race, then doesn't it say they were designed as prisoners for rogue Quori? So if that was true, wouldn't they be more like... accidents of eugenics or something? Different race. I believe you are referring to Elans in Eberron.
UnderworldLord 02-13-07, 10:33 AM	yes, yes I am. Please forgive my ignorance! :bow:
Rocksa 02-13-07, 07:59 PM	One of the things I've written into my campaign, which I've yet to run, is the whole rogue faction of The Twelve that I mentioned, making supersoldiers towards the end of the last war. One of their biggest creations that I did was something that, well, I basically forgot all about RAW and just did it, but I made a half-giant near demi-god named Sapletsedon. He basically had just about every useful template that I could find slapped on him, and in the end he was a hulking quad gestalt classed fighter/barbarian/psychic warrior/ranger, half-giant, half-dragon, half-fiend, half-celestial, magebred, horrid, phrenic, half-farspawn, half-golem something or other. I know, completely against RAW, seeing as that he'd be at least six halves of something and that gestalt classes are only supposed to be two different classes together, but the way I envisioned him working was just so fun. Basically he would've been like the Nemesis creature from the Resident Evil series, something that would chase you no matter what, and something that you couldn't kill, only deter if you were lucky. The campaign itself would have started during the last war with the PC's fighting on the Cyran's side, Sapletsedon would've been used by the Karn's and the Blood of Vol to fight in the war. Huge killing machine that could single handedly take down entire platoons, tearing across the battlefield, and the PC's are the ones tasked with trying to slow it down. So, anybody else tried doing anything like that? Stupid idea? Input?
EimiYoshikawa 02-15-07, 07:41 AM	I seem to recall the Player's Guide mentioning a rumor going around that Whisper Gnomes were, more or less, genetically engineered/magically bred to be the perfect Trust agents. Gnomish super-soldiers seeded amongst 'normal' Gnomish communities? Just makes the race even more fun in Eberron.
UnderworldLord 02-15-07, 10:38 AM	Christ, supergnomes? Where will it end! Eberron truely is the only place where a gnome strikes more fear than an Ogre.
Evilmonster 02-15-07, 12:12 PM	I'm playing with this idea that House Vadalis was lookin at teh killing Canith was making with thier warforged durring the last 15 years of the war and hoping to get in on the action. They were adding alll sorts of templates to critters and people looking for the perfect solder when, bam, the morning happened. They held back on breaking the news for a while and then the war ended. Now they're tryin to cover up the experiments, but some of the researcers went underground and are still working on the eldrich device that will allow them to mass produce super solders. Possable adventures. 1) The heroes find out about it and the lives wrecked by the house and are out to bring the house to justice, but what if the house finds the rogue researcers first? 2) The rogues succede and start selling tauric orc/gryphins (sp) to Aundair, shoring up thier forces and threatening to restart the war. Unless the PCs can find proof of what's going on and expose them before it's too late. 3) one of the PCs friends has been kidnaped! After tracking him down to a remote, forgotten lab he is rescued. But slowly his skin is being replaced by scales and his fingers are growing claws. Can the PC's find the people responcable and get the cure before their friend fully becomes a half dragon? (to bam it up a notch, their friend has a dragon mark and we all know what happend last time a half dragon had a mark)
EimiYoshikawa 02-15-07, 07:45 PM	Christ, supergnomes? Where will it end! Eberron truely is the only place where a gnome strikes more fear than an Ogre. You have no idea. Though this thread does give one or two: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=633443 Gnomes can be scary, Whisper Gnomes naturally moreso. I'd be considerably more worried to know the Trust was out to get my character than, say, the Emerald Claw.
Thanqol 02-15-07, 07:51 PM	House Valdis. Seriously, have a look at the Valdis Beastmaster PrC. They apply the Magebred Template to themselves.
Huzzah! 02-16-07, 01:58 PM	Paging Dr. Mengele.... Dr. Mengele, line one....
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 02:08 PM	About 15 years ago Mayfair Games released this awesome real world near future RPG called Underground, where one of the main story points was that the PCs were all genetically enhanced, to the point of minor supermen. The problem was that the process of genetic enhancement wasn't entirely understood (like that has ever stopped us before), and so the process drove its subjects nuts. Part of the character creation process was determining which psychosis your PC manifests. It was great. Imagine Marvel Comic's Thing from Fantastic Four having a bipolar crash in the middle of combat, or Spiderman going on a homicidal rampage when he gets too stressed out. It wasn't just the modifications that drove the soldiers nuts in that game. It was their country's willingness to just discard them after their time in the military. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is very dangerous in an individual that can literally rip a tank apart with his bare hands, don't you know? All in all, I can see the same thinking from that game driving the nations fighting the last war to consider "altering" humans to be better killing machines and then just turning them loose on an unsuspecting population when they're no longer needed. Hide the research notes and dispose of the test subjects. Wait, on second thought, let's turn them loose and observe them in the field......
Lucifi 02-16-07, 06:08 PM	It might not be something your interested in integrating into your campaign, but if you take a quick look at Expanded Psionics and Complete Psionics, you'll find all the information for Astral Construct and the Ectopic Master along with the feats in there. I could totally see a mad psionist who has decided to take the art of 'shaping' humans like he does his astral constructs. Maybe working with House Vadalis and House Cannith? Just a thought.
hellfirewyrm 02-19-07, 12:37 PM	Actually, I've been working on it a little on my own and thought the best idea is that House Vadalis and House Cannith want to create the ultimate being. The Warforged was a step in the right direction, but they failed in the sense of personal healing. Not only was it expensive to repair damaged warforged, but they did not regenerate over time. So, a scientist working for Houses Vadalis and Cannith spent his time working on developing the ultimate human. This work of course had been studied over years, before the warforged were created. At first, his developments were to create free-thinking constructs, the warforged, and eventually, he was able to create humans, but in doing so, they had no free-thought. They took orders to the letter, and were similar to a flesh golem in most aspects. Eventually, he went too far, creating not only a human who is faster, stronger, and more intelligent, but their free will made them ask, "Why do I listen to lesser beings?" This character, of course, is an NPC of exceptional power and not a playable race as there is only one. The creator still lives and has reincarnated himself in the body of a young boy. In my campaign, the boy has been following the party because the superhuman has broke free and now hunts him. While the whole story is yet to be revealed, the Lords of Dust have a little bit of play in this as well. How does that sound so far? Any suggestions for how to continue this campaign?