Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goon_for_Hire 10-31-06, 03:46 PM	I recently got my hands on copies of The Player’s Guide to Eberron and the Eberron Exporer’s Handbook. These are fantastic resources, but I was very disheartened by the treatment of Epic adventure’s in the ‘Guide. I DM heavily both in my own worlds and in Eberron, and love doing both for different reasons. I’ve found Eberron is great for piecing together a quick campaign with less fuss or planning than one’s own world does, and so many of the Solos I run, or campaigns where my players want lots of intrigue, it’s the way to go. The near-total lack of settings and concepts for epic level play in Eberron was very disappointing. I’ve been wracking my brains for ideas involving Epic Eberron, and I’ve come up with some neat ideas, mechanics, and suggestions I thought I’d put forward for people’s use. I’m hoping others will contribute some more of the same. Ideas that get a lot of positive feedback, I’ll gladly attack in greater depth. Giants Orbiting Researchers at Morngrave University have recently come across some interesting myths dating back to the end of the Age of Giants (possibly thanks to PC explorers’ contributions.) One of the most compelling is the story of Pan’Keur. According to the legend, an order of Eldritch, Storm, and Cloud giant mystics saw the end of their age coming. As dragonfire consumed the empires of Xen’drik they found an incredible means of escape: Using cooperative magic and the genesis spell from The Epic Level Handbook, the giants created a demiplane and built a city in it. This city, Pan’Keur (Jewelled City) was to hold their greatest innovations, their libraries, their most potent artefacts, and their greatest minds. The giants sealed Pan’Keur and set it in planar orbit just as the last nations of Xen’drik fell, and it has slowly followed its course ever since. Pan’Keur is almost never conterminous with the Material plane, it’s slow cycle takes tens of thousands of years to complete, and the composition of the focus rod for plane shifting there is an eternally lost secret. It has been aligned with the Material Plane only once since the end of the Age of Giants, corresponding with numerous strange magical upheavals and arcane events across the world. Its next alignment will be in 999YK. A secret Cadre of Morngrave scholars are desperately trying to discover where planar portals and manifest zones to the Lost City of the Giants might appear, in hopes of exploring the greatest ruin of all. Of course, what will truly dumbfound all of the scholars (and the PCs undertaking the journey) is to discover a living city of wise, scholarly giants with incredible arcane power, served by ornate stone warforged-like beings…. Pan’Keur can serve as a replacement for Union as a centre of interplanar commerce, not to mention the only place in Eberron with an epic-level economy, and smiths powerful enough to create epic items. Naturally there are complications. If the configuration for the plane shift focus rods to reach Pan’Keur became public knowledge, or the arcane lore necessary to open a gate there were discovered, giant magic could flood Khorvaire! This alone could start a chain reaction: overturning its economies, overwhelming its scholars, and putting nearly limitless power in the hands of people who haven’t the intellect to use it. Of course, the Aurum would like to control this for themselves and begin plotting ways to cover this discovery up, discover the way to Pan’Keur themselves, and silence any and all involved. The Dragons of Argonessen, now much weaker than they were in the Age of Giants fear what might happen if the Lords of Xen’drik could return. They are even more adamant about stifling the attempt, and PCs might have to face epic-powered dragons in the attempt. The Cabinet is unable to decide whether this is the work of the Prophecy, or it’s end. The Giants of Pan’Keur have no wish to deal with the strange dragonmarked races that now walk Eberron, in fact they have a severe dislike for anything related to dragonmarks and the Prophecy. They hold that dragonmarks are at best oracular tools and aberrant magic, and at worst a distraction from the pursuit of true knowledge. These ideas are so dangerous they could turn Eberron on its head. Even more bizarre, the Giants worship gods unheard of in modern Khorvaire. What could their religions do to modern belief? Certainly the church of the Silver Flame will have to make hard decisions about where they stand on opening the door to Pan’Keur, or unleashing the Dogs of Inqusition against those who might. Perhaps, they already knew about Pan’Keur from lost scriptures, and have been saving something special for this day… Out of Time A famous Thunder Guide (EXPLORER'S HANDBOOK) observes and reports mysterious giants excavating ruins in Xen’drik. Their language, mastery of the glyphs, the weapons they carry, and especially the magic they wield are not at all consistent with the primitive state of things on the Lost Continent. Are these explorers from Pan’Keur? Members of an enclave of giants that have truly maintained their culture on Xendrik? Or something far more dangerous, like scouts from a time-travelling army preparing to reclaim the continent that (to them) was only lost yesterday? Impergium Something strange is happening to the Ascendant Councillors of Aerenal: some are going into a trance, and then simply withering away. Hellfire-and-brimstone spouting clerics claim it is faithlessness among the young Areni at first, but then signs suggest that someone or something has been severing the Councillors’ chords and setting their Astral Bodies adrift. Some of the Areni set out to try and recover the drifting souls of their honoured leaders before it is too late, some travel the astral hoping to protect the remaining councillors, and others get ready for a battle. When evidence suggests that it is the work of the Githyankim the Areni storm en masse into the Astral Plane, and other set sail for Khorvaire, to slaughter every enclave of Gith existing today. Anyone who gets in their way can expect a fight with some of the most ancient and potent necromancers in Eberron backed by legions of deathless warriors. Dreaming Light A shy, temperamental young Khalashtar girl develops powers far beyond the mere psionics or sorcery. Everything she draws comes to life, as if every bit of ink she uses becomes Nolzur’s Marvellous Pigments: even things that should not be able to exist. She is slowly creating a new land where the usual rules of reality do not apply. It is almost as if she is creating a manifest zone to a plane that exists solely in her imagination. She claims she dreams of this realm where fish fly in the fog, and mirrors flow like water, showing different times. Desperate to confirm it the Quori have scoured the realms of Dal Quor and found nothing resembling her “world.” Is she tapping into an unknown realm of light dreams and fantasy (an opposite plane to Dal Quor?) is the spirit in her mind an actual Quori, or something new? The dreaming dark doesn’t want to wait to find out, they want her dead. Meanwhile other people… Khalashtar and human alike are flocking to her as some kind of prophetess. Clerics of established religions are worried, some are desperate enough to try and put an end to her dreams, before their beliefs lose all power on Eberron. Epic Magic A tablet containing an epic spell is found in underwater ruins along the coast of Xen’drik. It is the first such tablet ever covered (as far as the public knows.) No one seems to be able to understand the complex arcane theory behind it, and certainly they don’t seem to be able to cast it, but it may be the Rosetta Stone to the power of the Giants. Now Researchers are flocking to the “Sunken Atellier” trying to piece together more clues. While the most powerful mages clamour to examine the object. The secret to learning the Epic Magic feat might be in reach to a PC who discovers secrets in the ruin, but it will be a race against almost every powerful and corrupt organization in Khorvaire. Not to mention that it will require a deadly race to collect more tablets and clues across Xen’drik. The Twelve will do anything to be the organization to uncover that secret, even unleash things long trapped in a prison created by the ancient giants… Dust Up Fallen Paladins, prophets, and madmen alike begin howling about the next grand conclave of the Lords of Dust. If these hundreds of would-be prophets are right, then the next conclave at Ashtakala will bring together every Rakshasa in Khorvaire to plan a final great act to unleash their long-imprisoned lords. One raving artificer comes out of his lab bearing strange epic weapons: holy brilliant energy repeating crossbows, and insists that the PCs take them to Ashtakala and stop the Lords of Dust once and for all. Reading the Signs An epic-level magician boldly takes the tenth and final level in Cataclysm mage (EBERRON EXPLOERER’S HANDBOOK.) The magical power he wields is so great, and his mind so sharp that none of the Dragon’s increasingly furious attacks seem to be able to do him any harm. Desperate to eliminate him, they send flights of aggressive young dragons, and even teams of great wyrms to try and bring his magical studies to a halt, but he gains more and more power instead. As he climbs into high epic levels, he develops a series of epic feats and spells to manipulate dragonmarks: stealing other’s powers, activating bizarre magical properties in places that bear the dragonmarks, and revealing hidden ones with his passing. When he changes his dragonmark, other marks shift with it. Now he has set his sights on something deep in the heart of Argonessen, and even the mightiest dragons might not be able to stop him. Is he really re-writing the prophecy itself? The Seal While there are very few epic beings on Eberron, there are at least a few. Perhaps one of the most secret, and most deadly of them is an ancient order of dragons called The Seal. They opposed the War against the Giants of Xen’drik, and failed. Ever since, these dragons have agitated a new way of life in Argonessen. They wish to discard the prophecy and embrace their power to live as gods among the lands of mortals. In the past, the seal has been small and harmless, but since a charismatic CE Prismatic Dragon took over leadership, the seal has become more aggressive. They have sent agents to the barbaric dragons of Khorvaire, Xen’drik and Sarlona in secret, and now are mounting a campaign to annihilate every dragonmark they can, even if it means burning away the infrastructure of Korvaire and demolishing the very landscape to do it. The Pinnacle Another, even more potent epic order in Eberron is The Pinnacle. A group of a very few intelligent beings from a dozen ages, who have ascended to levels of power and enlightenment far above the limitations of their kind. The Pinncale has witnesses and records to most of the secrets of Eberron, from an elder titan leader, to the eternally preserved carcass of Vvaraak, enchanted with a permanent speak with dead. They invite the PCs to join them as scions of the lesser races, if they can meet the deadly initiation challenge: reach their Great Hall at the heart of Frostfell without the use of teleportation magic. The Soaring Sands While wandering with a band of sand giants (MMIII) in Menechtarun, a Scholar from Aundair sees something odd in a realm that is perpetually shrouded in sandstorms and inhabited by Creatures even the giants will not challenge. He claims to have seen what looked like a massive airship, scaled to giants, and built of stone, but suspended with the characteristic rings of fire? Most dismiss his discussion of ramblings, but some scramble to brave the stormy desert to try and find proof that the giants once had elemental binding technology (and hopefully thus send the Zilargo monopoly.) The New Flesh The Daelkyr have not been passive in their years below the surface. In fact they have been in touch with one another a great deal of time, often engaging in competitions to see who can create the foulest abberation yet. Unfortunately for Eberron, even that game has grown old, and now they want to try something new: a collaborative project. The abomination they plan to unleash threatens to wipe most life off the surface, in order to put a stop to it, the PCs are going to have to track down and eliminateall the daelkyr involved at once. Broken Anchor The spell that broke Xoriat’s connection with the planes has finally failed, and the plane of madness is moving again. In order to prevent a second Daelkyr invasion the PCs have to discover how the spell worked, how it was broken, and learn the epic magic necessary to mend it, and hopefully seal Xoriat away for good. They will meet some unexpected opposition along the way, including members of a subsect of cataclysm mages called The Flooding Dawn (EBERRON EXPLOERER’S HANDBOOK.) It Moves! An extremely active sect of the Godforged (FAITHS OF EBERRON) completes what they believe to be a worthy body for their Becoming God, complete with parts of a decommissioned creation forge within. Although it is barely conscious and incomplete, the Becoming God begins to move about of it’s own volition: heading across the Mournalnd where it was made toward breland in search of more components. This is in effect an iron Colossus controlled by the High Architect of an Assemblage of demented Godforged, who do not wish to wait for the coming of their god. The colossus is poorly controlled, and still mindless, as it travels it crushes anything in its path. The Mark of Changing A small tribe of shifters emerges from a deep, almost unpopulated portion of the Eldeen Reaches bearing a new dragonmark: it appears in every grade, and gives the power over transmutation and shape changing. While they are a small band, they are ambitious, and have far-reaching plans. They petition to become the thirteenth dragonmarked house: House Rassuk. Used to the traditional number, still superstitious about aberrant dragonmarks, and unwilling to split their business interests several of the dragonmarked houses refuse, others waffle, and at least two houses, Denieth and Medani come out as aggressive, potentially violent opposition. Forces in the Houses threaten to spark a second War of the Mark over this upstart clan of shifters. House Rassuk is not without allies, however: dozens of large shifter tribes, the Wardens of the Wood, the Ghaash’kala barbarians of the Demon Wastes, and House Tharashk are willing to fight for House Rassuk’s recognition. One Little Bite A celebrated bardic hero whose exploits have been carefully documented in the Korranberg Chronicles appears to manifest a strange new form of lycanthropy after being bitten by a shifter in the Eldeen reaches. Is this a hoax, an aberration, or a step in the evolution of shifters? Unfortunately the Silver Flame inquisition is not willing to wait to find out. Their zeal to exterminate the “new threat’ might even lead them to war, as Thrane troops (with or without leave) threaten to march into Eldeen, Darguun, and the Shadow Marches, regardless of Aundarian or Brelish borders. Meanwhile zealous hatred and fear erupt in the streets of several major cities in Western Khorvaire. Stones of Years A merchant in stormreach encounters a strange old man at his shop late at night. The haggard human worked hard to conceal a dragonmark as he tried to sell very old jewellery, old-fashioned clothes, some magic items, local herbs, and old artificer’s tool set for some unusual items. At the time he didn’t find this unusual, save that the man was exceptionally old, and had the look of having “gone native” in the jungle. But later when inspecting the goods he discovered that several items were monogrammed as property of one Aaren d’Canntih. The name meant little to him, but he reported it to House Cannith, who immediately organized an expedition to try and find the old man, who disappeared back into the jungle. Merrix d’Cannith is surprised that his cousin, the real inventor of the warforged is still alive and back in Xen’drik, and hopes to capture him, question him, and if necessary, eliminate him before he has a chance to ruin Meriix’ reputation. Along the way the PCs will encounter strange-looking stone warforged, of incredible grace, intellect, and power, before tracking Aaren down to an ancient creation forge of the giants, still guarded by paragon warforged made millennia ago, before the fall of Xen’drik. Aaren is trying to fulfill his dream of creating true life: a race of living constructs to work as artists, poets, philosophers, thinkers, and guides for humanity, capable of self-replication. Something many factions on Khorvaire would do anything to stop. Of course, Aaren is perfectly capable of protecting himself: with ancient warforged titan paragons. Shattered Dreams A Khlashtar seer has come to the conclusion that the Quori threat can only be ended if Dal Quor is cut off from the Material Plane just as Xoriat was, and he has plans to do it, but they require expeditious to Xen’drik to learn lost secrets, then to ancient temples around the world. His plan then requires mounting an attack that requires a veritable army of adventurers to simultaneously sabotage every Obelisk in Reidra. Of course, the possible side effects of severing the plane of dreams is almost unimaginable… So, show me what you've got. Toss in some ideas, or tell me what you liked. Oh, and to the WotC, I am for hire... ;)
Edymnion 11-01-06, 08:26 AM	The near-total lack of settings and concepts for epic level play in Eberron was very disappointing.Well, the entire point of the setting is that it is geared towards low level play. There is plenty of material there for high level play (some of the rajah's have a freaking divine rank they're so powerful!), but it was never intended to be the focus of the game, like it is in Faerun. The point was that low level is just as much fun to play, if not more so.
Logos7 11-01-06, 10:46 AM	I Think the sheer amount of stuff offered in the first post , kinda contridicts it's intent. Their's stuff with devine ranks and enough places and planes that are mostly undefined to shove whate'er you want I surpose they just need to make a random epic event chart step 1: who 00 Giants 01 The Dreaming 02 Kalalyshtar 03 Shapeshifters 04 The Emerald Claw 05 Aberations/Xoriat 06 Dragons 07 Demon 08 THe Coutyl 09 The Church Step 2: Does What 00 Reincarnate(Dm's Choice 01 "Eldritch Machine" 02 Assassinate (roll Who) 03 War on (Reroll who 04 have a disaster 05 Disappear 06 Steals Babies(roll Who's) 07 Use Epic Magic 08 Smuggle in Outsiders 09 Declares Jihad (roll on who) Step 3: Where 00 Aernale 01 Argonseen 02 Xendrick 03 Sharn 04 Karnath 05 Aundair 06 Mounlands 07 Thrane 08 Sarlona 09 The ten Seas Step 4: why 00 For Revenge ( roll on who) 01 For the Draconic Prophecy 02 For Perversity 03 For Morality 04 Out of Fear 05 Out of Misunderstanding 06 To Conquer the World 07 To Distroy the World 08 To **** off the Dragons 09 To **** of the Gawds I have just provided omething like 40,000 adventure ideas in eberron that the most of which, can easily lend themselves to epic play. It's all make believe , if you pretend that eberron lends it self to epic play it does. I'm not saying that you wont have to crank up the power a bit ( Monsterous Hit dice and level adjustments , Templates and Eldritch machines help provide this without everyone being a level 22 guy). PC's will never fight 99.99 % of your world who cares if they are level 3, if a level 3 commoner has the peice of info that level 22 PC's need , well they have to deal with the commoner at some point. I think much like in other less combat motivated games in eberron , perhaps think a touch more about stories and a touch less about cR. example 8572 The Couytl Dissappear Thrane for Perversity Those Gawdless Coutyle make thrane dissappear for the sake of perversity, Where the Hell are hero's when we need them.... or a well known coutyl dissapears within's thrane's borders. The Church is blamed and hires investigators to figure out who really did it. These investigator's then find Lord Ir Sicko and his Taxidermist and theire hall of Stuffed and Dead Good Creatures with it's new Aquisition. It's all in the fluff and fluff dont care if it's a level one guy ding it or level 21 Logos ~Ps sorry for the crappy table but you get the idea
Sarig the Genie 11-01-06, 11:21 AM	There already is 13 dragonmarked houses, so the shifter one would have to try to become the 14th :) Or have more ambitious plans and try to eradicate on of the others...
MagicMouth 11-01-06, 01:52 PM	I can just say... wow. :clap: Although Eberron is more of a low-level world, a time comes when even its characters reach truly epic heights. There is certainly no lack of epic threats (Lords of Dust, the Daelkyr, etc.), but nevertheless this list is quite impressive. I applaud thee, Goon_for-Hire.
PoeticJustice 11-02-06, 06:09 PM	I don't care what anyone else tells you. This is good stuff. As in Keith Baker, Trolls, Decreeofboredom, Saves-vs.-DM, or Fireballedmage good. I'm not sure how you did it, but this is exactly what Epic Eberron should be like. It's so dynamic. I can already see the art on the page! Oh, crap...could somebody hand me a tissue?
AvonRekaes 11-02-06, 06:52 PM	Well, the entire point of the setting is that it is geared towards low level play. There is plenty of material there for high level play (some of the rajah's have a freaking divine rank they're so powerful!), but it was never intended to be the focus of the game, like it is in Faerun. The point was that low level is just as much fun to play, if not more so. Your ECS must be missing the pages with Vol, Mordain the Fleshweaver, and Dealkyr on them. Low-level is not the point of Eberron. The PCs are the Heroes is the point of Eberron. Check for yourself. Off the top of my head there are only 2 high level good-guy NPCs in the setting (Jaela and Oalain), and many many more high level bad-guys: Rajahs, Dealkyr, Dealkyr Generals (the big nasty named ones), Vol, Mordain, the Lord of Blades (who should be gaining levels with the PCs, meaning he's always supposed to be more powerful than they are, relatively). This kind of environment means that yes, there are not many high- or epic-level allies like there are in FR. But that just means your high- or epic-level PCs are the ones that have to beat the big bad guys. Eberron is not low-level inherently. It's not high-level inherently (after all, all those bad guys I just mentioned are the nigh-immortal patient types, so their plans may not threaten the world in the lifetime of your campaign). Saying that epic-level play doesn't belong in Eberron is being close minded. There are elements there for you to work with if you want to play epic (as evidenced by Goon_for_Hire), and there are things to do at low level. Perhaps you don't like the idea of high-level Eberron play because it means it would most likely affect the world in some way. A massive Xoriat invasion would drastically change the setting. But it's not as if the setting will advance on its own. If I DM a game from level 1 to 25, you better believe that world-changing events would begin to happen around level 8. The books aren't advancing a metaplot so my personal plot won't be absolete, not because I shouldn't have my own plot either.
Goon_for_Hire 11-02-06, 07:54 PM	Sarig: I always count the shadow houses as one house in my head. Knowing House Thurrani and Phiarlan, it's all just a ruse anyway. How better to divide and conquer the intelligence world. ;) I was thinking of Russak more as a replacement for House Vol... with moons lighting up and shifts in planar alignment again. Logos7: I don't think I'll ever agree with your philosophy, but the table's kinda cool. I just break out a tarot deck or some of my old magic cards when I'm stumped for a plot, myself. Edymnion: I've found that Eberron does lend itself to low-level play, certainly: 1st level PCs can be a lot tougher in Eberron than in core-only/Greyhawk material, and you can manage low-violence a litte easier in Eberron, but I don't think that necessarily equates to a low-level setting. When I've run Eberron, I find that the pace moves so fast that PCs tend to skyrocket up the first handful of levels, then even out in the middle range, as the plot thickens, the Action Points become less useful, and the DM has to take extra measures to keep party information flow managed. But then, that might just be a style issue. Magic Mouth: Thanks. My first couple of Eberron campaigns just refused to quit. My Players were not satisfied until Merrix d'Cannith was brought to justice, the Lord of Blades was defeated, or they'd discovered proof of the Original Warforged from the age of Giants. I found it necessary to exploit those threats. I've been hoping to see soem strong epic-level material for Eberron ever since. Poetic Justice: Thank you! I appreciate your comments. I'll admit to having artwork in my head to work with when I put these together, Now if I could just rope my fantasy artist friend to doing a few freebies for me...
Edymnion 11-02-06, 09:35 PM	Edymnion: I've found that Eberron does lend itself to low-level play, certainly: 1st level PCs can be a lot tougher in Eberron than in core-only/Greyhawk material, and you can manage low-violence a litte easier in Eberron, but I don't think that necessarily equates to a low-level setting. When I've run Eberron, I find that the pace moves so fast that PCs tend to skyrocket up the first handful of levels, then even out in the middle range, as the plot thickens, the Action Points become less useful, and the DM has to take extra measures to keep party information flow managed. But then, that might just be a style issue.What makes it a low level setting has more to do with the NPCs. By default, it is a rare exception to find an NPC that is not an NPC class, and rarely do you ever find one that is more than lvl 2-3. As such, the majority of challenges a given party would face, when it comes to humanoids, will either be low level, or you would be pitting them up against what would essentially amount to elite forces. The King's personal guard are more likely to be 3rd level warriors than they would be 10th level fighters, for example. Sure, there are plenty of "normal" CR encounters, but you would not run across a thieve's guild that is made up of hundreds of 6th level Rogues that could send out hit squads after you that would be a major threat to even a low-mid level party. Its more realistic (oops, I used the R word) that a dagger is a significant threat to your average person in the setting, and that the odds of anybody in a given town even having PC classes is pretty low.
Goon_for_Hire 11-02-06, 10:43 PM	What makes it a low level setting has more to do with the NPCs. By default, it is a rare exception to find an NPC that is not an NPC class, and rarely do you ever find one that is more than lvl 2-3. As such, the majority of challenges a given party would face, when it comes to humanoids, will either be low level, or you would be pitting them up against what would essentially amount to elite forces. The King's personal guard are more likely to be 3rd level warriors than they would be 10th level fighters, for example. Sure, there are plenty of "normal" CR encounters, but you would not run across a thieve's guild that is made up of hundreds of 6th level Rogues that could send out hit squads after you that would be a major threat to even a low-mid level party. Its more realistic (oops, I used the R word) that a dagger is a significant threat to your average person in the setting, and that the odds of anybody in a given town even having PC classes is pretty low. Okay, I see where your going. In an adventure dedicated to intrigue, warfare, etc., I can agree with it. Given a certain DMing style. Mind you, Even in an intrigue campaign (perhaps especially in an intrigue campaign), there ought to be a myriad of story goals, RP bonues, etc., that scale up with the characters. The trick here being that your characters are not pitted exclusively against the NPCs of the world: Given that they are heroes and adventurers they are out exploring giant-infested ruins, facing off with living spells, avoiding traps and beetle swarms in the sewers of sharn, dealing with the undead, etc., which is something most of the NPCs in the world is not doing. They are at a totally different level of power. After all, Eberron draws its ideas from (and tries to capture the flavour of) sources that feature nearly superhuman heroics from a select few who are not at all like the rest of the people around them (consider the movie list in the intro!) I would argue that Eberron's relatively low level of "anti-monster" racism combined with the plethora of non-intelligent dangers out there means PCs in the "typical" swash-buckling Eberron campaign are more likely going to be dealing with the non-humanoid threats than the teeming masses of low-level NPCs. In that case, the levels of NPCs has little to do with the power level of the campaign as a whole. (Once again, excepting the rare campaign where humanoid NPCs are the only villains.) I'm not shooting you down, mind you. I'm certainly not going to argue that if you are playing Eberron you must buckle your swashes, or battle the beasties. If you are setting things up so that your PCs fight unexceptional NPCs more than monsters, I applaud you, and you will most certainly find Eberron pretty low-powered in that situation. ________________________________________ ________________________ You know, one thing that has always bothered me about Eberron is the relatively low level of a lot of NPCs. I mean, we are talking about a world that's just been through a major, bloody, magic-saturated war. Given the sheer scale of the Last War, about a tenth of the world's population should be military veterans. If you survive a single engagement with an equal-sized force of low level NPCs (total routes excluded) you really should come out of it with a decent chunk of experience. Where are all of these combat mages, blood-soaked warforged veterans, seasoned human fighters, and Kaarnathi necromancer-sergeants anyway? If anything there really ought to be droves of mid-level vets out there.
Belabras 11-02-06, 11:44 PM	This is great stuff Goon_For_Hire, but what about the Daughter's of Sora Kell (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041018a)? That's epic content right out of the box.
Edymnion 11-03-06, 12:24 AM	You know, one thing that has always bothered me about Eberron is the relatively low level of a lot of NPCs. I mean, we are talking about a world that's just been through a major, bloody, magic-saturated war. Given the sheer scale of the Last War, about a tenth of the world's population should be military veterans. If you survive a single engagement with an equal-sized force of low level NPCs (total routes excluded) you really should come out of it with a decent chunk of experience. Where are all of these combat mages, blood-soaked warforged veterans, seasoned human fighters, and Kaarnathi necromancer-sergeants anyway? If anything there really ought to be droves of mid-level vets out there.Actually, that was already hit upon. The basic idea is that NPCs do *NOT* gain xp in the same manner PCs do. That grissled war veteran that fought for a solid decade is still just going to be a level 2 warrior, not a 15th level Fighter/Exotic Weapons Master, simply because the vast majority of people in the setting simply do not have what it takes to be "PC Worthy". So, bottom line, there aren't a bunch of mid level war vets running around because they simply didn't gain xp for the combat like a PC would have.
Goon_for_Hire 11-03-06, 07:40 AM	The 'Daughters, eh? Hmmm... Black As Night The Daughters of Sora Kell have fought long and hard for their position of power in Droaam, and not without resistance. Tired of endless bickering, they use potent magics from the Age of Demons uncovered by Sora Teraze to turn their loose command into an iron grip. In a single "night of a thousand knives" every disloyal warlord and their families, every major foe, and every foreign agitator in Droaam ends up dead. Nobody saw or heard anything. Ecouaraged by the lethality of their magic, they begin eliminating major opposition to their sovreignty and recognition next. Noone has even the vaguest idea of how to stop the bloodshed (except giving into their demands) until one of the assassins is killed in the palace in Korth. The noone in Korth can identify the nightmarish humanoid (a gloom), but dozens of party begin scouring lore of the Dhakaani and Demon Age to identify their weaknesses. The search becomes truly desperate when the Daughters begin demanding political contrition and reparations from Jaela Daran as the head of the Silver Flame. The PCs may be called in as the only bodyguards capable of protecting the young Keeper, they might be involved in a journey to ancient ruins in the Demon Wastes or intelligence-gathering missions to discover the origin of the Glooms in Droaam, and possibly, to cut them off at their source. Thunder Underground For decades Xor'chylic has been directing the construction of Greywall's disturbing architecture. Most have assumed that it was meerely to please the ancient Illithid's sense of aesthetics, but it has turned out to be something far more mencaing... Greywall has been made into an elaborate three-dimensional sigil. In a night of calculated slaughter, Xor'chylic has finally activated the massive, alient stucture of the city, and in doing so has opnened a portal not to Xoriat, but rather to the Outer Darkness itself, and in doing so has unlashed an army of Katori minions led by and collective of Uvuduum. These horrors have begun a war on the beings of Khyber, and not even the Daelkyr seem to be able to stand up to them. Lands surrounding Greywall are slowly becoming encysted, and any humanoids discovered in Kyber are converted. The Supply of Kyber dragonshards has effectively been cut off, and Droaam tumbles toward civil war as the Daughters demand Xor'chylic dismiss his legions. In response, the Katori have begun slaughtering and converting goblinoids as well. Cults of evil Alienists have begun appearing all over Breand and Aundair who venerate the powers of the Outer Darkness rather than those of Xoriat. Worse yet, the Druids have become torn. The Gatekeepers, the Wardens, and(surprisingly) the Greensingers wish to end the menace, but the Children of Winter and the Ashbound see this as the beginning of the end they have sought and have turned on their own brethren. What's worse, the Katori appear to be expanding Greywall into an even greater sigil with towers of resin and cyst domes.
Goon_for_Hire 11-03-06, 07:46 AM	Actually, that was already hit upon. The basic idea is that NPCs do *NOT* gain xp in the same manner PCs do. That grissled war veteran that fought for a solid decade is still just going to be a level 2 warrior, not a 15th level Fighter/Exotic Weapons Master, simply because the vast majority of people in the setting simply do not have what it takes to be "PC Worthy". So, bottom line, there aren't a bunch of mid level war vets running around because they simply didn't gain xp for the combat like a PC would have. Certainly the Eberron makes a point of describing NPCs as being less potent than PCs, that there are fewer high level NPCs in this world than in many, and that NPCs classes don't necessarily invite an adventuring life, but I'm not sure I saw where you are getting your information about a retarded XP gain for NPCs in Eberron. Could you please direct me to a citation?
Goon_for_Hire 11-03-06, 07:48 AM	I don't care what anyone else tells you. This is good stuff. As in Keith Baker, Trolls, Decreeofboredom, Saves-vs.-DM, or Fireballedmage good. I'm not sure how you did it, but this is exactly what Epic Eberron should be like. It's so dynamic. I can already see the art on the page! Oh, crap...could somebody hand me a tissue? Sigged! And I followed the link in your sig... apparently I am "Sibling Machine Gun of Reasoned Discussion." :D
aelryinth 11-03-06, 05:34 PM	Certainly the Eberron makes a point of describing NPCs as being less potent than PCs, that there are fewer high level NPCs in this world than in many, and that NPCs classes don't necessarily invite an adventuring life, but I'm not sure I saw where you are getting your information about a retarded XP gain for NPCs in Eberron. Could you please direct me to a citation? This is the rationale given by Hellcow. THis is the reason why high level characters are not running rampant over Eberron. This is WHY traditional armies can exist...because the high level characters who would transform the battlefield into something more resembling modern warfare simply do NOT exist in the numbers to do that job. This is WHY the cavalry is not coming to rescue the PC's and set things straight with a wave of the hand. It's why the actions of your PC's matter...because there is NOBODY ELSE who can do the job. There is no back weight. Your average town guard is not a f/3. People don't xp like PC's do. This is actually a harkening back to 1E. In 1E, a level 9 character was 'Name Level'...all he had to do was build a stronghold and Poof, instant noble, he was THAT good, and his fame was built into the class mechanic. A Hero acclaimed in the area was a level4, a superhero was level 8. It's far easier to level up in the current game then in the old one. 1E slowed down tremendously around level 9-12. The more powerful classes took longer to level up then less powerful ones...and so in Eberron, NPC's of levels to rival the PC's are extremely rare, so of course non-humans become even more important. I like Eberron this way. There is no Elminster, unless your character becomes him. No backstory, nothing to make you wonder why your characters matter. You get to establish the heroic powers...not some thousand year old touched by the gods tool of the DM. Much more fun. ===Aelryinth
Goon_for_Hire 11-03-06, 08:16 PM	This is the rationale given by Hellcow. THis is the reason why high level characters are not running rampant over Eberron. This is WHY traditional armies can exist...because the high level characters who would transform the battlefield into something more resembling modern warfare simply do NOT exist in the numbers to do that job. Fair enough. I won't argue with Mr. baker, but that still doesn;t give me a direct citation ;) This is actually a harkening back to 1E. In 1E, a level 9 character was 'Name Level'...all he had to do was build a stronghold and Poof, instant noble, he was THAT good, and his fame was built into the class mechanic. A Hero acclaimed in the area was a level4, a superhero was level 8. It's far easier to level up in the current game then in the old one. 1E slowed down tremendously around level 9-12. The more powerful classes took longer to level up then less powerful ones...and so in Eberron, NPC's of levels to rival the PC's are extremely rare, so of course non-humans become even more important. Oh, I remember those days allright. I still have my Rules Cyclopaedia and red box around here somewhere. I still use some of the old economic managment rules from the expert set. I like Eberron this way. There is no Elminster, unless your character becomes him. No backstory, nothing to make you wonder why your characters matter. You get to establish the heroic powers...not some thousand year old touched by the gods tool of the DM. Much more fun. I agree. Wholeheartedly. My argument was more about the fact that low-level NPCs do not mean a low-level campaign setting. I am curious about the rationale and where in the ECS they tried to convey the idea, however.
Edymnion 11-04-06, 12:14 AM	Fair enough. I won't argue with Mr. baker, but that still doesn;t give me a direct citation ;)And you likely will never get one, because the post he said it in has likely been pruned by now.
MagicMouth 11-04-06, 07:10 PM	Well, Goon, you inspired me to come up with some new epic ideas. The Once and Future Kings? In Aerenal and Valenar, more and more people have joined causes with a group of strange albino elves preaching about “the ancient glories of the old continent”. These leShay, as they call themselves, claim that the past the elves know today is flawed, that they could have much greater power than they can dream of, magic rivaling that of the old giant kingdoms. Now the leShay seem intent on eradicating all links to the past we know; this would naturally include the entire Undying Court... What are the goals of these leShay? Would their version of today be a paradise... or an era of tyranny? What links do they have to the ancient giant magic of the past? How do they plan to change over 40,000 years of history? Are they connected with the invasion from Dal Quor all those years ago? And if so, do they cooperate with the quori now? Deus Ex Machina There are many silent battlefields remaining after the Last War, and the dead include mem-bers of all races and creeds. But now, explorers in the Mournlands have reported that the countless lifeless husks of warforged soldiers have simply vanished to gods-know-where. While this is rather disturbing, other more pressing matters need to be dealt with. Weeks later, all major cities of Khorvaire are visited by strange, metallic entities who appear among the warforged population and urges them to resist humanoid oppression. They aren´t openly aggressive yet, but their appearance worry the rulers of the continent. Is this some scheme conducted by the Lord of Blades? Has he managed to repair the Creation Forges, combining the husks of old warforged to create these super-soldiers? But then why are the strange constructs talking about the coming of King Anaxim? Have the sins of old come back to haunt those of flesh and blood, who for so many years treated warforged like lifeless shells? Plane-Shaking Discoveries A Xen´drik expedition recently brought back a massive obsidian tome with pages of flexible lead. Supposedly, the adventurers found this artifact in a never-before seen ruin in the darkest parts of the jungle, a place where the buildings seemed to dwarf the mountains themselves. Unfortunately, all attempts to study this codex has resulted in the immediate death of the curi-ous researchers. Thus, it has been placed under strict supervision until further notice. This artifact is nothing less than the legendary Codex of the Infinate Planes. It is with the help of this tome that the giants could put Dal Quor out of orbit 40,000 years ago. But while this was first considered possible only with epic dragon magic, this artifact seems to have far more demonic origins. Could rakshasa infiltrators originally have put this item in giant hands? Why would they even do such a thing; wouldn´t they thrive in the chaos of a planar invasion? Could the spells within the Codex weaken the very fabric of the world? Were they written by the ancient rajahs themselves? And if this is the truth, what happens if they are cast once more?
DwarfPcfan 11-07-06, 12:00 PM	The Responsibilities of Power From such disparate locations as the Cogs of Sharn, The jungles of Xendrik, the Mournland, The Mror Holds, etc have risen people wielding power of a magnitude unseen anywhere in recorded history. According to witnesses, these characters have claimed to be the livings incarnations of the Dark Six, having come to crush the Followers of the Sovereign Host once and for all. They seek to crush any remnants of civilization bringing an age of untold savagery. Are their words true, what is the source of their powers. As the fearful population flocks to their banner in fear is their hope for to keep the peace. And for that matter if the Dark Six has come in flesh, Will the Sovereigns respond in kind...
MagicMouth 11-07-06, 04:44 PM	Hey, it lives again. :D A Hundred Blades The heroes have come too late. After many years of preparations, the Lords of Dust and their humanoid minions have finally completed an unholy ritual that will release the rajahs from their ages-long imprisonment. Or so it was thought... The earth and heavens shook in pain as the rift opened, releasing an unholy abomination of the worst sort; a Hecatoncheires, a creature so terrible even the rajahs fear its power. As this monstrosity makes its way towards Argonessen, the rakshasa of Ashtakala plead to the heroes for aid. Even the greatest wyrms would have no chance against the Hundred-Handed One, so the demons claim that the only way to defeat it would be to channel the power of a rajah into a living vessel. Is the price worth it? If the monster is defeated, then what would happen? When and how did the Hecatoncheires come into being? Is this all a ploy conducted by the rakshasa, meant to fool the heroes into truly bringing about a new Age of Demons?