Getting new players to "Buy In" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Getting new players to "Buy In" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hoffmangler
10-13-04, 04:03 PM Hello all,

I'm new to the boards so if this topic has it's own thread or has been beaten to death I apologize in advance.

How do you suggest getting PCs who have only ever played vanilla D&D to really buy into the idea of Eberron's cinematics?

Some of our players (I am also a player not the GM) are really concerned with classic D&D and it tends to drag down the movie feel of the game by spending a lot of time on uncinematic things or by not understanding why we do cinematic things.

Examples; our party had a friend in prison that we needed to help escape. The cinematic players wanted to stage a daring daylight rescue, using distractions, and possibly a horse/carriage chase with our getaway. The classic D&D players didn't understand why we didn't just bribe the guards.; Every combat ends up being "I use trip attack" followed by lengthy rule look up sessions; At one point, a player wanted to pillage a defeated warforged by cutting off it's limbs and melting them down for weapons. He felt that it would be important to have weapons that pierce the warforged hide.

I'm new to Eberron and I absolutely love the setting. I'm a huge fan of cinematic role playing and Eberron's focus on tone and attitude plays right up my alley. I want to help others understand this side of the game but I've been told to give up as it's "like explaining color to a blind person".

Anyone have any similar experiences and/or suggestions. Thanks!
jonthegm
10-13-04, 04:07 PM If you have the patience, just lead by example, and keep combats moving (and keep them devilish).
m15a
10-13-04, 05:14 PM not that it'll help with your problem, but make sure they know that melting down the warforged is an evil action. (if they don't care whether it's evil because it doesn't affect their abilities, make sure such actions build a reputation, helpful or harmful.)

i think you shouldn't have stood in the way of their characters trying to bribe the guards. let them try and then have the guards be loyal and turn against them, or have the guards require more than the players were originally willing to offer. maybe more than money. i think that's safer than telling them "that's not very cinematic." just push them into cinematic situations when you can.
Makseb
10-13-04, 05:30 PM So what does your DM think about all this? I agree with m15a that he needs to guide the cinematic aspect of the game. Any situation can become cinematic if the consequences of a players' actions are tailored that way...
Edymnion
10-13-04, 09:29 PM At one point, a player wanted to pillage a defeated warforged by cutting off it's limbs and melting them down for weapons. He felt that it would be important to have weapons that pierce the warforged hide.Just to clear this one up, there is not enough of the precious metals in the WF's body to be worth the trouble of getting to it.

Keith originally had it that those WF were LACED with the metals, but they were still mainly good old fashioned stone and steel in their plates. Good example of this is Adamantine Body. They are effectively in Adm Full Plate, but their DR is only 2/- when adm heavy armor should be granting 3/-, indicating that the plating is NOT as pervasive as real adm full plate would be.

Essentially, it would be the same as mining computers for their precious metals. Yes, every computer contains a fair bit of gold and a couple other valuable materials. No, unless you've got a large scale operation designed to mine hundreds of thousands of computers (actually, pound for pound, computers are richer than any gold vein on the planet).

Its the same with the WF. They have SMALL amounts of the metal in key places, but they are not walking around with a hundred thousand gold's worth of adamantine on them. We're talking in a 300+ pound Adm Body Warforged, the amount of adm actually in them would be a couple pounds.

If you REALLY want to spend a week dissassembling a WF, smelting it down, avoiding all those silly peasants with pitchforks that keep yelling something about how you're defiling the dead, all for a lump of adamantine/mithril worth at most a couple hundred gold, go right ahead.

Of course, you'll likely have the Church of the Silver Flame on your butt for it.
I mean, its essentially the same as killing people so you can grind up their bones to sell as bonemeal. Yeah, people would buy it as long as you didn't tell them where it came from, but damn if you don't have paladins from across the realm trying to make you stop.
Brastan
10-13-04, 11:30 PM Warforged paladins to be precise :).

In order to help things keepa moving I would recommend you help your DM, by pushing combat ahead. Don't let lengthy rules discussions about another players actions bog your character down. Or bog the DM down for that matter. Say okay, and proceed with your turn in such a way that it does not have to relay on the out come of said debate. Also players should have the rules of complicated actions ready to go before they act. Otherwise they shouldn't do them.

Let them bribe the guard(s). As long as its there money. Just remember you'll be able to fight him on the way back out. Just stop to take the money the other fools, I mean players paid him for yourself. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hoffmangler 10-13-04, 04:03 PM	Hello all, I'm new to the boards so if this topic has it's own thread or has been beaten to death I apologize in advance. How do you suggest getting PCs who have only ever played vanilla D&D to really buy into the idea of Eberron's cinematics? Some of our players (I am also a player not the GM) are really concerned with classic D&D and it tends to drag down the movie feel of the game by spending a lot of time on uncinematic things or by not understanding why we do cinematic things. Examples; our party had a friend in prison that we needed to help escape. The cinematic players wanted to stage a daring daylight rescue, using distractions, and possibly a horse/carriage chase with our getaway. The classic D&D players didn't understand why we didn't just bribe the guards.; Every combat ends up being "I use trip attack" followed by lengthy rule look up sessions; At one point, a player wanted to pillage a defeated warforged by cutting off it's limbs and melting them down for weapons. He felt that it would be important to have weapons that pierce the warforged hide. I'm new to Eberron and I absolutely love the setting. I'm a huge fan of cinematic role playing and Eberron's focus on tone and attitude plays right up my alley. I want to help others understand this side of the game but I've been told to give up as it's "like explaining color to a blind person". Anyone have any similar experiences and/or suggestions. Thanks!
jonthegm 10-13-04, 04:07 PM	If you have the patience, just lead by example, and keep combats moving (and keep them devilish).
m15a 10-13-04, 05:14 PM	not that it'll help with your problem, but make sure they know that melting down the warforged is an evil action. (if they don't care whether it's evil because it doesn't affect their abilities, make sure such actions build a reputation, helpful or harmful.) i think you shouldn't have stood in the way of their characters trying to bribe the guards. let them try and then have the guards be loyal and turn against them, or have the guards require more than the players were originally willing to offer. maybe more than money. i think that's safer than telling them "that's not very cinematic." just push them into cinematic situations when you can.
Makseb 10-13-04, 05:30 PM	So what does your DM think about all this? I agree with m15a that he needs to guide the cinematic aspect of the game. Any situation can become cinematic if the consequences of a players' actions are tailored that way...
Edymnion 10-13-04, 09:29 PM	At one point, a player wanted to pillage a defeated warforged by cutting off it's limbs and melting them down for weapons. He felt that it would be important to have weapons that pierce the warforged hide.Just to clear this one up, there is not enough of the precious metals in the WF's body to be worth the trouble of getting to it. Keith originally had it that those WF were LACED with the metals, but they were still mainly good old fashioned stone and steel in their plates. Good example of this is Adamantine Body. They are effectively in Adm Full Plate, but their DR is only 2/- when adm heavy armor should be granting 3/-, indicating that the plating is NOT as pervasive as real adm full plate would be. Essentially, it would be the same as mining computers for their precious metals. Yes, every computer contains a fair bit of gold and a couple other valuable materials. No, unless you've got a large scale operation designed to mine hundreds of thousands of computers (actually, pound for pound, computers are richer than any gold vein on the planet). Its the same with the WF. They have SMALL amounts of the metal in key places, but they are not walking around with a hundred thousand gold's worth of adamantine on them. We're talking in a 300+ pound Adm Body Warforged, the amount of adm actually in them would be a couple pounds. If you REALLY want to spend a week dissassembling a WF, smelting it down, avoiding all those silly peasants with pitchforks that keep yelling something about how you're defiling the dead, all for a lump of adamantine/mithril worth at most a couple hundred gold, go right ahead. Of course, you'll likely have the Church of the Silver Flame on your butt for it. I mean, its essentially the same as killing people so you can grind up their bones to sell as bonemeal. Yeah, people would buy it as long as you didn't tell them where it came from, but damn if you don't have paladins from across the realm trying to make you stop.
Brastan 10-13-04, 11:30 PM	Warforged paladins to be precise :). In order to help things keepa moving I would recommend you help your DM, by pushing combat ahead. Don't let lengthy rules discussions about another players actions bog your character down. Or bog the DM down for that matter. Say okay, and proceed with your turn in such a way that it does not have to relay on the out come of said debate. Also players should have the rules of complicated actions ready to go before they act. Otherwise they shouldn't do them. Let them bribe the guard(s). As long as its there money. Just remember you'll be able to fight him on the way back out. Just stop to take the money the other fools, I mean players paid him for yourself. ;)