Getting the Noir feel across in your games [Archive] - Wizards Community

Getting the Noir feel across in your games [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kisama
02-23-05, 04:48 PM In my spare time I decided to read up on the Noir style. Initially I was trying to find cool quotes to use but instead happened upon quite a bit of analysis papers on the whole Noir style in general.

Then I happened upon one site where the auther acutally played RPG's and was trying to apply a Noir style to his Greyhawk games.

He provides some good tips on how to get add a Noir feeling to the adventures. Here is a quote I like.

In terms of the latter the way a GM chooses to describe the game world can have a strong impact in the way the players respond to it. The Noir prose style is often characterised by a terse compact style. It is not given over much to lengthy descriptive passages. Emulating this is fairly easy. Think about your locations before a game starts and try to eliminate anything that is purely atmospheric or colour from your descriptions. For example you may know that the curtains in a certain room are purple but unless this is some kind of clue do not both to mention it unless the players ask.

This of course does not mean a return to the classic style of "you are in a ten by ten room". Descriptions need not be utilitarian and basic, simply short and sharp.

Another technique that seemed to work out was reversing my normal practice of giving every NPC a name where possible. For the Noir style games only the "important" characters were deemed worthy of a name. The bartender or the butler would simply be "the bartender", "the butler". This kept the game flowing as the group did not have to persecute "the beggar" (for example) just to see if he were a spy.

Another aspect of Noir is the lack of "dead time", even the main protagonist's introspection is limited to the case currently at hand. Any actions that a character wishes to undertake that are not relevant to the job in hand should be resolved quickly without too great a detail. Any time the group are uncertain as to what to do next then the NPC's should seize the initiative. Common events are a body turning up (possibly someone the group have met but have not had a chance to question in depth yet), a visit from one of the suspects or alternatively the authorities.

Noir is strongly narrative driven and character development and interaction often takes a back seat in these style of adventures. The point is to keep the plot moving.

The URL for the whole document is here.
http://carnel.sdf-eu.org/carnel/carnel15.html

I am still searching for more writings to inspire me. If any of you know of any please post them.
Altaris
02-23-05, 05:29 PM Those are all very valid points. I DM a bi-weekly Eberron game that I've had a lot of success with. One of the best ways to keep the Noir alive is to make sure each player is familiar with the style. Make certain that each character has a dark side, both PCs and NPCs. The Church of the Silver Flame is the perfect example.

One of my players is a Changeling Rogue/Paladin of the Silver Flame. She has no compunctions about sneaking around, spying, and even back-stabbing those who are evil or who are doing evil. Not very honorable, but she feels it is necessary.

Another character is an Elven Cleric/Exorcist of the Silver Flame. He is just as willing to get 'dirty' in order to vanquish evil, including working with those within the Church that he knows are also evil.

The main character (only because of plot) is a Human Soulknife, Dragonmarked Heir of House Deneith. He is willing to murder, torture, and in general do what ever it takes to defeat his opponents. As a matter of personal choice, he selects those who do harm to the innocent as his opponents.

The anti-hero concept fits so well within Eberron, and it makes for great RP when it comes to inter-party conflict over morals. Because even though all three of the above are very similar, their specific choices make them dissimilar.

And along that vein, I tend to highlight the darker side of Sharn. Dirty air, crowded streets, stormy skies and dark tunnels... Changeling consorts and Daask thugs conflicting with Boromar minions and their Watch allies. I tend to start the session off with a recap of last session, and then either a cinematic or a mood-setting description.

Oh, and music is an absolute must!
Gurv
02-23-05, 08:46 PM I think the antihero is the best type of PC for Eberron. They need to be willing to do good, but capable of doing what is needed. A character that is all about doing good (Superman) will be immediately defeated when the only way to accomplish something is to deal with a lesser evil. A vigillante hero with a dark side (Batman) is going to be better equiped to deal with the realities of a world with shades of grey.

Even paladins need to be willing to get down in the gutter to get things done. That doesn't mean doing evil acts. But ignoring a lesser evil to eliminate a greater one might be. Realists survive better in Eberron.

As the ECS says, "Search Slow, Fight Fast", and the OP pretty much goes into that. In additions to the combats being fast and furious, it is also a good idea to have them be very sudden and unexpected. PCs shouldn't be expecting it. Evil minions crashing through the windows, a sniper taking a shot and then running, or whatever. It should be rare for the PCs to know a combat encounter is about to occur.
DJDave
02-24-05, 03:10 AM Well my method is to go with the "Big Sleep" method of chucking in a random dead body every now and then to keep them on their toes

:plotting:

Of course usually it's an NPC they have come to have a certain regard for. Or I'll have someone disappear, or they will come back to bury a comrade's body and will find it's gone

:evillaugh
JohnSnow
02-24-05, 01:17 PM These posts SOOO make me want to either play in or run an Eberron game!! :w00t:

But unfortunately, my gaming group is currently involved in a homebrew Castles and Crusades game. Our DM (sorry...CK :bored: ) has decided he's not fond of the "complexity" of 3rd Edition, so he converted his homebrew (which our group enjoys) to C&C, which has a certain old-school charm. Of course, it also has all those old-school...problems. You know the ones I mean...

Anyway, I'm jealous of those of you who get to actually PLAY Eberron. :bigeyes:

Personally, I've thought about trying to DM a game, but Eberron is jousting with Midnight. Odd that I'd be so attracted to two such different settings, eh? On the other hand, Keith's a George Martin reader, so clearly he likes some of that kinda stuff, and (Midnight designer) Wil Upchurch played in an Eberron game, so maybe I'm not THAT odd.

I wonder if it's possible to have a dark fantasy pulp noir game...oh wait, that's Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser... :blush:
Siran Dunmorgan
02-24-05, 02:08 PM Simple advice? Begin all of your adventures with variations on the following sentence:

"You're knocking back a Mror whiskey at Gorignak's in Downstairs when trouble walks in—brunette, as usual."[1]

But I suppose that if what you're looking for is quotations to set the mood, it's hard to go wrong with these:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033870/quotes

—Siran Dunmorgan

[1] With apologies to Bill Watterson, on whom peace.
kisama
02-24-05, 03:18 PM wow, good quotes there!
JohnSnow
02-24-05, 04:02 PM That reminds me.

If you can get the DVD copy of A&E's excellent (if somewhat short-lived) Nero Wolfe series, it's great. The lines are priceless, and fit in very well with Noir stories.

Just a random suggestion.
DJDave
02-25-05, 03:36 AM But I would suggest a film night with your party to watch a selection of films mentioned in the ECS and Sharn.

We had one last weekend and watched The Maltese Falcon and Pirates of the Caribbean. Then we played a monster session of Eberron

Was excellent!
fizzbang
02-25-05, 12:55 PM The Opinion about Pulp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=385085) thread was an excellent one about the Pulp side of Eberron, complete with a great bit of advice for Noir stylings (from Zalaz Mavi), and a bit of general advice about the difference between Pulp and Noir. It makes for an interesting counterpoint to this thread.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kisama 02-23-05, 04:48 PM	In my spare time I decided to read up on the Noir style. Initially I was trying to find cool quotes to use but instead happened upon quite a bit of analysis papers on the whole Noir style in general. Then I happened upon one site where the auther acutally played RPG's and was trying to apply a Noir style to his Greyhawk games. He provides some good tips on how to get add a Noir feeling to the adventures. Here is a quote I like. In terms of the latter the way a GM chooses to describe the game world can have a strong impact in the way the players respond to it. The Noir prose style is often characterised by a terse compact style. It is not given over much to lengthy descriptive passages. Emulating this is fairly easy. Think about your locations before a game starts and try to eliminate anything that is purely atmospheric or colour from your descriptions. For example you may know that the curtains in a certain room are purple but unless this is some kind of clue do not both to mention it unless the players ask. This of course does not mean a return to the classic style of "you are in a ten by ten room". Descriptions need not be utilitarian and basic, simply short and sharp. Another technique that seemed to work out was reversing my normal practice of giving every NPC a name where possible. For the Noir style games only the "important" characters were deemed worthy of a name. The bartender or the butler would simply be "the bartender", "the butler". This kept the game flowing as the group did not have to persecute "the beggar" (for example) just to see if he were a spy. Another aspect of Noir is the lack of "dead time", even the main protagonist's introspection is limited to the case currently at hand. Any actions that a character wishes to undertake that are not relevant to the job in hand should be resolved quickly without too great a detail. Any time the group are uncertain as to what to do next then the NPC's should seize the initiative. Common events are a body turning up (possibly someone the group have met but have not had a chance to question in depth yet), a visit from one of the suspects or alternatively the authorities. Noir is strongly narrative driven and character development and interaction often takes a back seat in these style of adventures. The point is to keep the plot moving. The URL for the whole document is here. http://carnel.sdf-eu.org/carnel/carnel15.html I am still searching for more writings to inspire me. If any of you know of any please post them.
Altaris 02-23-05, 05:29 PM	Those are all very valid points. I DM a bi-weekly Eberron game that I've had a lot of success with. One of the best ways to keep the Noir alive is to make sure each player is familiar with the style. Make certain that each character has a dark side, both PCs and NPCs. The Church of the Silver Flame is the perfect example. One of my players is a Changeling Rogue/Paladin of the Silver Flame. She has no compunctions about sneaking around, spying, and even back-stabbing those who are evil or who are doing evil. Not very honorable, but she feels it is necessary. Another character is an Elven Cleric/Exorcist of the Silver Flame. He is just as willing to get 'dirty' in order to vanquish evil, including working with those within the Church that he knows are also evil. The main character (only because of plot) is a Human Soulknife, Dragonmarked Heir of House Deneith. He is willing to murder, torture, and in general do what ever it takes to defeat his opponents. As a matter of personal choice, he selects those who do harm to the innocent as his opponents. The anti-hero concept fits so well within Eberron, and it makes for great RP when it comes to inter-party conflict over morals. Because even though all three of the above are very similar, their specific choices make them dissimilar. And along that vein, I tend to highlight the darker side of Sharn. Dirty air, crowded streets, stormy skies and dark tunnels... Changeling consorts and Daask thugs conflicting with Boromar minions and their Watch allies. I tend to start the session off with a recap of last session, and then either a cinematic or a mood-setting description. Oh, and music is an absolute must!
Gurv 02-23-05, 08:46 PM	I think the antihero is the best type of PC for Eberron. They need to be willing to do good, but capable of doing what is needed. A character that is all about doing good (Superman) will be immediately defeated when the only way to accomplish something is to deal with a lesser evil. A vigillante hero with a dark side (Batman) is going to be better equiped to deal with the realities of a world with shades of grey. Even paladins need to be willing to get down in the gutter to get things done. That doesn't mean doing evil acts. But ignoring a lesser evil to eliminate a greater one might be. Realists survive better in Eberron. As the ECS says, "Search Slow, Fight Fast", and the OP pretty much goes into that. In additions to the combats being fast and furious, it is also a good idea to have them be very sudden and unexpected. PCs shouldn't be expecting it. Evil minions crashing through the windows, a sniper taking a shot and then running, or whatever. It should be rare for the PCs to know a combat encounter is about to occur.
DJDave 02-24-05, 03:10 AM	Well my method is to go with the "Big Sleep" method of chucking in a random dead body every now and then to keep them on their toes :plotting: Of course usually it's an NPC they have come to have a certain regard for. Or I'll have someone disappear, or they will come back to bury a comrade's body and will find it's gone :evillaugh
JohnSnow 02-24-05, 01:17 PM	These posts SOOO make me want to either play in or run an Eberron game!! :w00t: But unfortunately, my gaming group is currently involved in a homebrew Castles and Crusades game. Our DM (sorry...CK :bored: ) has decided he's not fond of the "complexity" of 3rd Edition, so he converted his homebrew (which our group enjoys) to C&C, which has a certain old-school charm. Of course, it also has all those old-school...problems. You know the ones I mean... Anyway, I'm jealous of those of you who get to actually PLAY Eberron. :bigeyes: Personally, I've thought about trying to DM a game, but Eberron is jousting with Midnight. Odd that I'd be so attracted to two such different settings, eh? On the other hand, Keith's a George Martin reader, so clearly he likes some of that kinda stuff, and (Midnight designer) Wil Upchurch played in an Eberron game, so maybe I'm not THAT odd. I wonder if it's possible to have a dark fantasy pulp noir game...oh wait, that's Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser... :blush:
Siran Dunmorgan 02-24-05, 02:08 PM	Simple advice? Begin all of your adventures with variations on the following sentence: "You're knocking back a Mror whiskey at Gorignak's in Downstairs when trouble walks in—brunette, as usual."[1] But I suppose that if what you're looking for is quotations to set the mood, it's hard to go wrong with these: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033870/quotes —Siran Dunmorgan [1] With apologies to Bill Watterson, on whom peace.
kisama 02-24-05, 03:18 PM	wow, good quotes there!
JohnSnow 02-24-05, 04:02 PM	That reminds me. If you can get the DVD copy of A&E's excellent (if somewhat short-lived) Nero Wolfe series, it's great. The lines are priceless, and fit in very well with Noir stories. Just a random suggestion.
DJDave 02-25-05, 03:36 AM	But I would suggest a film night with your party to watch a selection of films mentioned in the ECS and Sharn. We had one last weekend and watched The Maltese Falcon and Pirates of the Caribbean. Then we played a monster session of Eberron Was excellent!
fizzbang 02-25-05, 12:55 PM	The Opinion about Pulp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=385085) thread was an excellent one about the Pulp side of Eberron, complete with a great bit of advice for Noir stylings (from Zalaz Mavi), and a bit of general advice about the difference between Pulp and Noir. It makes for an interesting counterpoint to this thread.