Githzerai, Githyanki, and Mindflayers in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Githzerai, Githyanki, and Mindflayers in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ch@pel
08-19-04, 02:52 PM I'm trying to adapt these classic races into Eberron and I'm just wondering if anyone had any ideas about them.

Since mindflayers were created by the Daelkyr, it would make sense that the Gith races were also created by the Daelkyr. I would imagine that the Giths were created as a slave race on Xoriat, and the Illithids were charged with overseeing them by the Daelkyr. At some point, the Giths revolted and escaped to the Astral Plane. (possibly during the failed invasion of the Material plane by the Daelkyr) The Daelkyr are not overly concerned with recovering their slaves, as they can simply create new races to serve them, but the Illithids do wish to reinstate their tyrannical rule over the Giths. This would pretty much set up the Githzerai, Githyanki, and Illithids in their "default" history, without interfering with the backstory specific to Eberron.

What do you think? Am I missing something? How would you alter this?
Takasi
08-19-04, 03:51 PM Here's an interesting take from Hellcow on the Ask Keith thread:

Q Originally posted by Xyl In the book, it says that the daelkyr seem to make an art form of destroying worlds. Since it would be hard to develop it into an art form when the only world available to destroy is Eberron, do they have access to other worlds? If so, how? If not, did they have access in the past, and how? Are there more daelkyr out there working to destroy other worlds?

A This theory is based on the idea that there are other worlds in the material plane besides Eberron, and that Xoriat and the other planes may touch these worlds as well. Some sages believe this must be the case; others say it is a preposterous idea. Among those who do believe in other worlds, one claim is that the gith are survivors of a world destroyed by the Daelkyr. The gith fled to the outer planes to escape the destruction of their world. If this is true, the traditional gith hatred of the illithids should be extended to all forces of Xoriat. It is even possible that illithids are corrupted gith, just as dolgaunts are corrupted hobgoblins and chokers are (if the stories are to be believed) corrupted halflings.

Here's another related Q&A:

Q Originally posted by Joni-san In traditional D&D (Planescape to be exact) dead gods become big rocks in the Astral (and are usualy inhabited by Gith). What happens to dead gods in Eberron? Or where do Gith live if not on god-isles?

A Since it cannot be conclusively proven that the gods exist, no-one knows if they can die or what happens to them if they do. The githyanki do still live on fortresses in the astral plane; their history and the origin and nature of these fortresses may be explored in the future.

And finally:

Q Originally posted by Takasi Quick question: how does the Gith world fit into the timeline of Eberron? Was the world a separate progenitor dragon? Does it orbit the sun of Eberron or another star?

A Since the people of Eberron have not developed space travel, no one knows (and my expectation is that this is something that will jbe left in the hands of you as a DM). At the moment, the only way to reach another world would be through a planar bridge.

Interesting stuff! I can't wait to hear more about gith in the future from sourcebooks. In the meantime, these seeds from Keith add a lot to the imagination.
Kid SixXx
08-19-04, 04:30 PM Thread on the use of the Githyanki Incursion mega adventure from Dragon & Dungeon magazine posted below:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291687
Kesh
08-19-04, 07:59 PM Actually, I don't think the Daelkyr created the Illithid. More like, the Illithid already existed in Xoriat, and serve the Daelkyr.

A possibility is that the Gith were an experiment of the Illithid, who were emulating their Daelkyr masters in trying to create servant-races of their own. The Gith were created too willful, however, and once Xoriat was closed off by the Gatekeepers (with the help of Gith herself), the survivors were on their own.

Of course, being creations of the Illithid, they were unwelcome on Eberron, so they fled to the planes. One faction set up in the Astral, while another found their home in one of the planes proper.

Another possibility is that they were a race native to the Astral plane, which the Mind Flayers enslaved during the invasion of Eberron. When the war was over, one group returned to their home in the Astral, while another struck out to find a new place to reside among the planes.
Brianish
08-19-04, 09:22 PM Mmm pretty sure I read that the Daelkyr created the Illithid somewhere in the book.

Maybe not, though. Their entry does refer to them as "natives" of Xoriat.`
Ch@pel
08-19-04, 09:54 PM Actually, I don't think the Daelkyr created the Illithid. More like, the Illithid already existed in Xoriat, and serve the Daelkyr.

Under the entry for Daelkyr in the Monster section of the Eberron CSB, it states that the Daelkyr did create the mind flayers.

I like the idea of the Giths coming from a world that was destroyed long ago by the Daelkyr, that makes a little more sense than having them come from Xoriat as well. That way, they weren't created by the Mind Flayers or the Daelkyr, but they were enslaved by them, and I agree that the racial hatred for Illithids should extend to the Daelkyr. I'd like to keep the idea that the Daelkyr aren't as directly involved with the Giths as the Mind Flayers; the Daelkyr ought to have bigger fish to fry.

As far as space travel goes, I didn't know it was an issue in traditional D&D (including Eberron) at all! I always thought of the planes as other planets, with the Astral Plane functioning as traditional "outer space." One thing I remember seeing somewhere in the Manual of the Planes was that other material planes (other worlds, with their own set of planes) could be accessed through the Plane of Shadow, but not through the Astral or Ethereal Plane. Each individual Material plane has its own set of distinct planes all connected by its own Astral and Ethereal Planes and its own deities, but they are all connected by the Plane of Shadow. Naturally moving between these alternate dimensions is a little harder to do than accessing the standard planes.

With this is mind, you could say that the Daelkyr already decimated Faerun, Oerth, and Athas by going through the Plane of Shadow. :cool: When they did, the Gith fled along the Plane of Shadow to find a new Astral Plane to call home. (or they were enslaved and brought back by the Daelkyr's minions, the Illithids.)
Takasi
08-20-04, 02:23 PM There's a thread at ENWorld on the new half-illithid lizardfolk. It talks a little bit about ceremorphosis, which is in the fiend folio. True "mind flayers" are created from the illithid tad poles transforming a human host. Other races create other types of illithids. Going off of Keith's statement, in Eberron the first illithid may have been descended from the Gith. Perhaps this is how the Daelkyr infiltrated the Gith homeworld, which provides more explanation to the Gith hatred of illithids.
Neofish
08-21-04, 03:18 PM Hmmm....interesting stuff.
allow my to add in my 2cp
during the big invasion of ebberon by the Daelkyr, what if one of them landed in Sarlona? and what if he brought back to Xorait some "blank canvas" Humans with him and made the gith? Somehow they manged to escape the horrors of Xorait before it was closed for good and now reside in the astral plane, this could explain thier paranoia towards everything. Maybe the illithids where just thier burtal slave masters. The gith in Ebberon could be potential allies against the Daelkyr.
Anyway just a thought...
WizO_Sith
08-21-04, 04:23 PM An even more outre' theory is that the Daelkyr might've created the proto-Gith specifically to serve as a foodsource for the Mind Flayers.

For a race that so prizes the suffering of others, a race created specifically to serve as slaves and foodstuff yet intelligent enough to recognize and dread their fate, might have a certain twisted appeal for the Daelkyr.

In either case, it raises some interesting "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" possibilities if/when the PCs go Daelkyr hunting..
Markab
08-31-04, 01:13 AM I think that in normal D&D the githyanki and githzerai were humans that the mindflayers mutated. I like the idea that they won their freedom at the time the daelkyr were trapped in kyber.

if you want to completely change their origin (because it is fun). you could say that in time long past there were humans, giants, or whatever. the major race I will refer to as humans. humans discovered psioncs (the basis of gith and illithid). they wanted to be gods. to do whatever they wanted. out of this there emerged 5 schools of psionic dicsipline.

the Cor drew their powers from the dream realm.
the Ithlian focused their energy to control their conscious mind.
the Dellkorians manipulated reality with their thoughts.
the Goths blended their mind powers with the strength of their bodies.

they were still humans but their pursuits grew from an achedemic disagreement into a war of ideology. as time continued the societies developed the ability to twist their bodies to make them better able to channel the type of energy they focused on. they twisted and mutated their brethren in an effort to improve themselves.

conflict was inevitable. the Cor sought to win the hearts of their brethren to control them. the Ithlians wanted to control their minds. a war raged not unlike the religious purifications that would later occur. towns were dstroyed where the factions, that now only passingly resembled the humans that they existed among or ruled. the Cor and the Ithlians were the cause. the Dellkorians remained neutral while the goths split, some helping the Cor and some the Ithlians.

the two sides waged their battle to prove who was the more god-like. through times of heated battle and simmering hate the powers engulfed nations in their struggles. the drive to become more powerful drove them to radical changes. the Cor making themselves immortal, masters of dreams and the ithlians developing to suck the knowledge from brains they consumed. the Goth changed very little over this time except to become battle hardened and resolute in their cause.
the fighting continued with no one seeming to notice that Dellkor monastaries had vanished.

time immeasurable passed. if someone was alive at the beginning of the war they would hardly recognize the Illithids and the Quori fighters. the Goths too had changed and though they are not recognizable, they are not the abominations that their masters had become. the Githyanki fought for the Illithids and the Githzerai fought for the Quori.

then the impass ended with the return of the forgotten. The Daelkyr returned or rather revealed themselves again. Illithids were swallowed by eberron's gaping maw and the sky rained acid on the Quori.

The true masters had developed their powers in secret. They did not boast of grand designs, they showed them. all the arguments of heart and mind seemed meaningless when compared to the fathomless depths that the consciousness of the shapers of reality possessed.

in moments their eyes were opened. the quori were able to escape into their world of pleasant thoughts and nightmares with the Githzerai. the illithids were not so lucky nor were their men at arms. they were taken to the realm of the Daelkyr. they were to live as slaves and contemplate their existence with new teachers.

Xoriat was the Daelkyr realm. what it was before thier visions became reality no one can say. in this land the Illithids served. and the Githyanki were their dogs. they existed in their hell for many eons so much time had passed that the Illithids and Githyanki forgot their origin, did the daelkyr? no one knows the mind of the uknowable.

the invasion of eberron.

this is a history we know and this would seem to be the end. the Daelkyr being defeated. the flayers loosing their hold over the Githyanki who fled to the astral plane.
the Quori also invaded. seeing that their conquerers were no longer there they attempted. but to no avail. their servants sick with losing abandoned their masters. they fled to a realm of their own dreams where they could emulate the victors and create through imagination. they went to kythri

the feuds it seems did not die. though the masters no longer able to fight. the Illithids not even remembering the battle, their servants carry on the feud. the githzerai and githyanki fight every time they see their hated brethren. what will be the next page in this saga?

-if the Illithids emerge fom kyber will old arguments inspired with new ideas flare again.
-If the daelkyr emerge will the Quori retreat again? what of the Kalashtar, will they become heroes among those that exiled them by defeating their age old enemies?
-will the githyanki or githzerai stop the inspired?
-would the inspired stop an invasion of gith? would they conquer the world only to win favor of the Daelkyr?

well there is my idea if you don't like the original. if you are going to use that tell me what parts you liked or will change. I like to original story for them just fine but I thought, I've got too much time on my hands (45 minutes) so I will come up with something new.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ch@pel 08-19-04, 02:52 PM	I'm trying to adapt these classic races into Eberron and I'm just wondering if anyone had any ideas about them. Since mindflayers were created by the Daelkyr, it would make sense that the Gith races were also created by the Daelkyr. I would imagine that the Giths were created as a slave race on Xoriat, and the Illithids were charged with overseeing them by the Daelkyr. At some point, the Giths revolted and escaped to the Astral Plane. (possibly during the failed invasion of the Material plane by the Daelkyr) The Daelkyr are not overly concerned with recovering their slaves, as they can simply create new races to serve them, but the Illithids do wish to reinstate their tyrannical rule over the Giths. This would pretty much set up the Githzerai, Githyanki, and Illithids in their "default" history, without interfering with the backstory specific to Eberron. What do you think? Am I missing something? How would you alter this?
Takasi 08-19-04, 03:51 PM	Here's an interesting take from Hellcow on the Ask Keith thread: Q Originally posted by Xyl In the book, it says that the daelkyr seem to make an art form of destroying worlds. Since it would be hard to develop it into an art form when the only world available to destroy is Eberron, do they have access to other worlds? If so, how? If not, did they have access in the past, and how? Are there more daelkyr out there working to destroy other worlds? A This theory is based on the idea that there are other worlds in the material plane besides Eberron, and that Xoriat and the other planes may touch these worlds as well. Some sages believe this must be the case; others say it is a preposterous idea. Among those who do believe in other worlds, one claim is that the gith are survivors of a world destroyed by the Daelkyr. The gith fled to the outer planes to escape the destruction of their world. If this is true, the traditional gith hatred of the illithids should be extended to all forces of Xoriat. It is even possible that illithids are corrupted gith, just as dolgaunts are corrupted hobgoblins and chokers are (if the stories are to be believed) corrupted halflings. Here's another related Q&A: Q Originally posted by Joni-san In traditional D&D (Planescape to be exact) dead gods become big rocks in the Astral (and are usualy inhabited by Gith). What happens to dead gods in Eberron? Or where do Gith live if not on god-isles? A Since it cannot be conclusively proven that the gods exist, no-one knows if they can die or what happens to them if they do. The githyanki do still live on fortresses in the astral plane; their history and the origin and nature of these fortresses may be explored in the future. And finally: Q Originally posted by Takasi Quick question: how does the Gith world fit into the timeline of Eberron? Was the world a separate progenitor dragon? Does it orbit the sun of Eberron or another star? A Since the people of Eberron have not developed space travel, no one knows (and my expectation is that this is something that will jbe left in the hands of you as a DM). At the moment, the only way to reach another world would be through a planar bridge. Interesting stuff! I can't wait to hear more about gith in the future from sourcebooks. In the meantime, these seeds from Keith add a lot to the imagination.
Kid SixXx 08-19-04, 04:30 PM	Thread on the use of the Githyanki Incursion mega adventure from Dragon & Dungeon magazine posted below: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291687
Kesh 08-19-04, 07:59 PM	Actually, I don't think the Daelkyr created the Illithid. More like, the Illithid already existed in Xoriat, and serve the Daelkyr. A possibility is that the Gith were an experiment of the Illithid, who were emulating their Daelkyr masters in trying to create servant-races of their own. The Gith were created too willful, however, and once Xoriat was closed off by the Gatekeepers (with the help of Gith herself), the survivors were on their own. Of course, being creations of the Illithid, they were unwelcome on Eberron, so they fled to the planes. One faction set up in the Astral, while another found their home in one of the planes proper. Another possibility is that they were a race native to the Astral plane, which the Mind Flayers enslaved during the invasion of Eberron. When the war was over, one group returned to their home in the Astral, while another struck out to find a new place to reside among the planes.
Brianish 08-19-04, 09:22 PM	Mmm pretty sure I read that the Daelkyr created the Illithid somewhere in the book. Maybe not, though. Their entry does refer to them as "natives" of Xoriat.`
Ch@pel 08-19-04, 09:54 PM	Actually, I don't think the Daelkyr created the Illithid. More like, the Illithid already existed in Xoriat, and serve the Daelkyr. Under the entry for Daelkyr in the Monster section of the Eberron CSB, it states that the Daelkyr did create the mind flayers. I like the idea of the Giths coming from a world that was destroyed long ago by the Daelkyr, that makes a little more sense than having them come from Xoriat as well. That way, they weren't created by the Mind Flayers or the Daelkyr, but they were enslaved by them, and I agree that the racial hatred for Illithids should extend to the Daelkyr. I'd like to keep the idea that the Daelkyr aren't as directly involved with the Giths as the Mind Flayers; the Daelkyr ought to have bigger fish to fry. As far as space travel goes, I didn't know it was an issue in traditional D&D (including Eberron) at all! I always thought of the planes as other planets, with the Astral Plane functioning as traditional "outer space." One thing I remember seeing somewhere in the Manual of the Planes was that other material planes (other worlds, with their own set of planes) could be accessed through the Plane of Shadow, but not through the Astral or Ethereal Plane. Each individual Material plane has its own set of distinct planes all connected by its own Astral and Ethereal Planes and its own deities, but they are all connected by the Plane of Shadow. Naturally moving between these alternate dimensions is a little harder to do than accessing the standard planes. With this is mind, you could say that the Daelkyr already decimated Faerun, Oerth, and Athas by going through the Plane of Shadow. :cool: When they did, the Gith fled along the Plane of Shadow to find a new Astral Plane to call home. (or they were enslaved and brought back by the Daelkyr's minions, the Illithids.)
Takasi 08-20-04, 02:23 PM	There's a thread at ENWorld on the new half-illithid lizardfolk. It talks a little bit about ceremorphosis, which is in the fiend folio. True "mind flayers" are created from the illithid tad poles transforming a human host. Other races create other types of illithids. Going off of Keith's statement, in Eberron the first illithid may have been descended from the Gith. Perhaps this is how the Daelkyr infiltrated the Gith homeworld, which provides more explanation to the Gith hatred of illithids.
Neofish 08-21-04, 03:18 PM	Hmmm....interesting stuff. allow my to add in my 2cp during the big invasion of ebberon by the Daelkyr, what if one of them landed in Sarlona? and what if he brought back to Xorait some "blank canvas" Humans with him and made the gith? Somehow they manged to escape the horrors of Xorait before it was closed for good and now reside in the astral plane, this could explain thier paranoia towards everything. Maybe the illithids where just thier burtal slave masters. The gith in Ebberon could be potential allies against the Daelkyr. Anyway just a thought...
WizO_Sith 08-21-04, 04:23 PM	An even more outre' theory is that the Daelkyr might've created the proto-Gith specifically to serve as a foodsource for the Mind Flayers. For a race that so prizes the suffering of others, a race created specifically to serve as slaves and foodstuff yet intelligent enough to recognize and dread their fate, might have a certain twisted appeal for the Daelkyr. In either case, it raises some interesting "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" possibilities if/when the PCs go Daelkyr hunting..
Markab 08-31-04, 01:13 AM	I think that in normal D&D the githyanki and githzerai were humans that the mindflayers mutated. I like the idea that they won their freedom at the time the daelkyr were trapped in kyber. if you want to completely change their origin (because it is fun). you could say that in time long past there were humans, giants, or whatever. the major race I will refer to as humans. humans discovered psioncs (the basis of gith and illithid). they wanted to be gods. to do whatever they wanted. out of this there emerged 5 schools of psionic dicsipline. the Cor drew their powers from the dream realm. the Ithlian focused their energy to control their conscious mind. the Dellkorians manipulated reality with their thoughts. the Goths blended their mind powers with the strength of their bodies. they were still humans but their pursuits grew from an achedemic disagreement into a war of ideology. as time continued the societies developed the ability to twist their bodies to make them better able to channel the type of energy they focused on. they twisted and mutated their brethren in an effort to improve themselves. conflict was inevitable. the Cor sought to win the hearts of their brethren to control them. the Ithlians wanted to control their minds. a war raged not unlike the religious purifications that would later occur. towns were dstroyed where the factions, that now only passingly resembled the humans that they existed among or ruled. the Cor and the Ithlians were the cause. the Dellkorians remained neutral while the goths split, some helping the Cor and some the Ithlians. the two sides waged their battle to prove who was the more god-like. through times of heated battle and simmering hate the powers engulfed nations in their struggles. the drive to become more powerful drove them to radical changes. the Cor making themselves immortal, masters of dreams and the ithlians developing to suck the knowledge from brains they consumed. the Goth changed very little over this time except to become battle hardened and resolute in their cause. the fighting continued with no one seeming to notice that Dellkor monastaries had vanished. time immeasurable passed. if someone was alive at the beginning of the war they would hardly recognize the Illithids and the Quori fighters. the Goths too had changed and though they are not recognizable, they are not the abominations that their masters had become. the Githyanki fought for the Illithids and the Githzerai fought for the Quori. then the impass ended with the return of the forgotten. The Daelkyr returned or rather revealed themselves again. Illithids were swallowed by eberron's gaping maw and the sky rained acid on the Quori. The true masters had developed their powers in secret. They did not boast of grand designs, they showed them. all the arguments of heart and mind seemed meaningless when compared to the fathomless depths that the consciousness of the shapers of reality possessed. in moments their eyes were opened. the quori were able to escape into their world of pleasant thoughts and nightmares with the Githzerai. the illithids were not so lucky nor were their men at arms. they were taken to the realm of the Daelkyr. they were to live as slaves and contemplate their existence with new teachers. Xoriat was the Daelkyr realm. what it was before thier visions became reality no one can say. in this land the Illithids served. and the Githyanki were their dogs. they existed in their hell for many eons so much time had passed that the Illithids and Githyanki forgot their origin, did the daelkyr? no one knows the mind of the uknowable. the invasion of eberron. this is a history we know and this would seem to be the end. the Daelkyr being defeated. the flayers loosing their hold over the Githyanki who fled to the astral plane. the Quori also invaded. seeing that their conquerers were no longer there they attempted. but to no avail. their servants sick with losing abandoned their masters. they fled to a realm of their own dreams where they could emulate the victors and create through imagination. they went to kythri the feuds it seems did not die. though the masters no longer able to fight. the Illithids not even remembering the battle, their servants carry on the feud. the githzerai and githyanki fight every time they see their hated brethren. what will be the next page in this saga? -if the Illithids emerge fom kyber will old arguments inspired with new ideas flare again. -If the daelkyr emerge will the Quori retreat again? what of the Kalashtar, will they become heroes among those that exiled them by defeating their age old enemies? -will the githyanki or githzerai stop the inspired? -would the inspired stop an invasion of gith? would they conquer the world only to win favor of the Daelkyr? well there is my idea if you don't like the original. if you are going to use that tell me what parts you liked or will change. I like to original story for them just fine but I thought, I've got too much time on my hands (45 minutes) so I will come up with something new.