Grasp of the Emerald Claw and other Adventures [Archive] - Wizards Community

Grasp of the Emerald Claw and other Adventures [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mandarbgrim
01-25-05, 11:40 PM ***!!!SPOILERS!!!***
I am really not understanding that battle at the end with Xulo and the primative Warforged. What is the purpose of destroying the pillars? Why should the characters destroy all the cords? It would seem a lot faster and easier to destroy the warforged. Especialy since it will be attacking them.
100 cord would take 100 attacks..assume I allow the PC's the option of destroying the organic cords with Fireballs or some other area of effect..that still leaves 50 metalic cords. How far the cords supposed to be spaced, as well? I really like the idea of including them..but don't see how it helps the PC's in any way.

To attack Xulo you simply attack the complete creation pattern..then when you do enough damage it falls back into the pieces and become inert?

Is the last battle with the Warforged an automatic occurance? Why even leave search options and such available if I am just going to force the plot into a certain direction?

Am I correct in understanding that Muroni becomes an active member of the party? Her being 4th level makes her rather weak as an active member doesn't it?

Does anyone else thing the 4 adventures in this campaign are especially deadly?
1st- Likilihood of a weak character being downed by a sneak attack on a surprise round of combat. Magic traps if the characters aren't being especially clever. Swarm that can't be hit by weapons. 3rd level Fighter who ambushes party. This doesn't seem that bad, but..

2nd- Adventuring in the Mournlands with no healing. Hard battles during this. End battle with Garrow and crew if characters do the "right" thing.

3rd- Masquerade encounter-difficulty getting into, battle with no armor or possiblly weapons. Fall for 12d6 damage???? I don't see many good options to instantly occur to/or be available to characters of 4th-5th level.

4th- Even harder battles during this one. Getting bullrushed or washed off of building. Magic traps that can kill wounded characters with a single attack.

I just have a feeling that the people I am DMing this for won't survive through all of it without me fudging rolls, or giving major hints. I don't mind players dying..when they do something stupid. Not just because they don't happen to be especially clever and creative.
Firiel Tindomerel
01-26-05, 03:18 AM Does anyone else thing the 4 adventures in this campaign are especially deadly?
It depends a lot on both players and characters, IMHO.

1st- Likilihood of a weak character being downed by a sneak attack on a surprise round of combat. Magic traps if the characters aren't being especially clever. Swarm that can't be hit by weapons. 3rd level Fighter who ambushes party. This doesn't seem that bad, but..
The worse being the sneak attack, I guess... for the swarm there is always fire, and the traps are just part of every game. (always IMHO).

2nd- Adventuring in the Mournlands with no healing. Hard battles during this. End battle with Garrow and crew if characters do the "right" thing.
The Mournland depends on how you handle healing (allowing rope trick or not) my party wizards fainted vs the carcass crab, nothing that bad :D I agree, the final battle is a bit too much to handle, but it's not a battle the party is supposed to win either :)

3rd- Masquerade encounter-difficulty getting into, battle with no armor or possiblly weapons. Fall for 12d6 damage???? I don't see many good options to instantly occur to/or be available to characters of 4th-5th level.
I will DM this on sunday, I've seen there are quite a lot of feather fall ring around... and they got plenty of time to do something clever, anyway.

4th- Even harder battles during this one. Getting bullrushed or washed off of building. Magic traps that can kill wounded characters with a single attack.
I want the boook!!! :D It's not arrived in Switzerland yet! :(

I just have a feeling that the people I am DMing this for won't survive through all of it without me fudging rolls, or giving major hints.
Whell, you have to, if you want a fun game and they arent up to the task...

I don't mind players dying..when they do something stupid. Not just because they don't happen to be especially clever and creative
I do... a player rarely dies in my campaing, he really has to do something really, really stupid... I dont let a wrong die roll get into their path, sometimes :grin:
nick012000
01-26-05, 05:27 AM ***!!!SPOILERS!!!***
I am really not understanding that battle at the end with Xulo and the primative Warforged. What is the purpose of destroying the pillars? Why should the characters destroy all the cords? It would seem a lot faster and easier to destroy the warforged. Especialy since it will be attacking them.
100 cord would take 100 attacks..assume I allow the PC's the option of destroying the organic cords with Fireballs or some other area of effect..that still leaves 50 metalic cords. How far the cords supposed to be spaced, as well? I really like the idea of including them..but don't see how it helps the PC's in any way.

I think that you're supposed to be able to damage all of them with area attacks. The first average 6d6 fireball (21 damage) will take out all of the organic ones and leave the metallic ones in bad shape. The second will take out all of the metallic ones as well.
Mandarbgrim
01-26-05, 11:48 AM I think I might describe the situation in more detail.. and have the cabes coming out on each side...so it will only take an area attack to destroy each bundle of organic..and not much effort to destroy the metalic. And if they don't pick up on the idea that the cables are feeding him power... oh well.

Or maybe make it obvious that cables are helping him..pulsing energy running down their length and the blows he is taking are being healed. Probably too hard.

Yeah..I am with you on not killing people. I mean.. the people I play with don't have the 16 INT or more their characters have. So I can't expect them to be able to be clever and figure everything out everytime. I don't really like killing people period. Unless they do something really stupid...like.."" I jump into the frozen river and swim after him" "In your full plate armor with no ranks in Swim?" "Yeah." Or the first level fighter continues to mouth off to the 20th level Wizard with a temper after the other characters have left the room and are hiding behind the biggest pillars they can find. But usually I have seen DM's come up with some obvious consequence of their actions that punish them and make them realize they are pushing the realism to absurdity. So I prefer that method.
Golbez57
01-26-05, 01:50 PM Yes, these are certainly tough adventures. Aside from the difficulty of healing being impaired in the Mournland (I can't see anyone surviving this without adjusting either the adventure or that restriction), the party will probably need to be balanced in a way that they have access to healing magic in order to survive.

As was alluded to already by Firiel Tindomerel regarding the final confrontation of Shadows, it's okay for the heroes to drop between -1 and -9 hit points, and at that point, you should just have the bad guys shift attention to someone else. Eberron is intended to have a cinematic feel, and I can't think of an action movie right now where:

a) the good guys come through unscathed and don't get knocked for a loop at least once;

or

b) the bad guys give all of their attention to finishing off the unconscious hero while others still stand.

About Grasp...

For the final conflict with Xulo, I personally will be having Garrow physically try to fight off its influence, assuming he reaches that part of the ziggarut. You know, one of those, "you're my enemy, and I will kill you once our mutual foe is done for!" scenes--with some interesting role-playing/combat following the hopeful defeat of Xulo. Your additional description sounds good, Mandarbgrim, but if the players at the time don't catch on, I might have Garrow--again assuming he's around--hack away at one of the cords. That's just an exciting scene to imagine: some characters rushing around trying to "cut the power" to the huge Warforged while their companions try to keep it at bay.
bykov1
01-11-07, 01:03 PM Running my players through Grasp I have noticed some details that would prevent certain character death could have been expounded. Our thief managed a reflex save on the second spike he hit on the way down (the module did not give this sort of enlightenment, which seemed most obvious).....but then he realized that he had a ring of featherfall and let go....hehehe. But the previous adventure had the potential to supply the whole group with Rings of Featherfall for this final adventure. I have noticed that the adventure has had a few traps that were not meant to be found by a party of 6th level, and thus the subsequent not finding of said trap would lead to a most horrid death. Then on the otherside, the Emerald Claw have been almost completely ineffective. Muroni and her healing arts have been completely tapped out. Muroni has already gone up 3 levels (which brings up the obscenely frequent leveling in 3e, but that it a separate topic. The power level of this adventure does not seem to have been play-tested well. But all in all, it has been very enjoyable.
Recovering_Blackguard
01-11-07, 03:01 PM Any advice for modifying Grasp for 4th level characters? My players are just finishing up Shadows (and yes, I tweaked the Mournland/healing thing a bit), and I'm sensing they may want to finish the tale of the schemas w/o taking a sidetrip through Whisper. Scaling down the monsters is one thing, but some of the traps and structural dangers (e.g., falling off the side of the building) seen tougher to tweak w/o eliminating entirely.
Wrathamon
01-12-07, 07:13 PM Grasp was very deadly... I have heard that Bruce Cordell wrote a variant of the shark encounter somewhere.

Xulo was very tough but my group didnt have your typical arcane blaster nor CoDzilla.
Bluebrush
01-12-07, 09:31 PM 2nd- Adventuring in the Mournlands with no healing. Hard battles during this. End battle with Garrow and crew if characters do the "right" thing.Part of what makes it tricky is that the adventure was designed before the whole "No healing in the mournland" thing was decided.

It's been suggested by KB that you could fudge this a bit by giving Whitehearth a magical abjuration field (To avert detection, contain accidents, etc) which blocks the effect of the mourning.
Wrathamon
01-12-07, 09:42 PM Part of what makes it tricky is that the adventure was designed before the whole "No healing in the mournland" thing was decided.

It's been suggested by KB that you could fudge this a bit by giving Whitehearth a magical abjuration field (To avert detection, contain accidents, etc) which blocks the effect of the mourning.

I made one of the rooms an interdimensional space so the player's could rest up before the big battle. the idea was that this was a testing room for dangerous experiements.
beezly
01-13-07, 09:48 AM Any advice for modifying Grasp for 4th level characters? My players are just finishing up Shadows (and yes, I tweaked the Mournland/healing thing a bit), and I'm sensing they may want to finish the tale of the schemas w/o taking a sidetrip through Whisper. Scaling down the monsters is one thing, but some of the traps and structural dangers (e.g., falling off the side of the building) seen tougher to tweak w/o eliminating entirely.

This sounds really great, because i was really wanting to Do Red Hand of Doom with the warforged in the mournland with Xulo as the new object of worship. I'd really like to see what changes you made. As for the structural dangers, make the Zuggurat strcture a pyramid and then if someone falls, they slide down, taking X damage but not the full falling damage.
Recovering_Blackguard
01-13-07, 02:45 PM I'd really like to see what changes you made.

Basically I ruled that magical healing does work in the Mournland, but is only half as effective as normal (rounded down). So, for example, a potion of Cure Light, which would normally heal 1d8+1; heals 1d4 in the Mournland. Etc.

As for the structural dangers, make the Zuggurat strcture a pyramid and then if someone falls, they slide down, taking X damage but not the full falling damage.

Excellent idea. Consider it stolen.
beezly
01-13-07, 05:30 PM I was asing more about what you did with the encounters when converting Grasp to 4th level, but that mournland idea is excellent.
mhacdebhandia
01-13-07, 05:42 PM How's this for hilarious?

When I ran Shadows of the Last War for my fiancee and two of our friends, they actually managed to kill Garrow at the back of the church before he could drink his potion of invisibility.

Subsequently, they were not followed into the Mournland and avoided most of the fights on the way to Whitehearth.

The toughest fight they had was with the stone half-golem wolf in the kennel, actually. Even the fight with the elementals was a little easier, because they'd seen the illusory version first.
Recovering_Blackguard
01-15-07, 01:12 PM I was asing more about what you did with the encounters when converting Grasp to 4th level, but that mournland idea is excellent.

Beezly - check out my original post. I haven't modified Grasp for 4th level characters; I was asking for suggestions on how to do it.
beezly
01-15-07, 03:09 PM Blackguard, according to the character wealth by level, 4th level characters have 40% of the wealth of a 6th level character. Here's the changes i'd make so far.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Town House 19
1. 2 Karrnathi Zombies
2. Payment is 2,000 Gold peices each
3. Upfront Payment is 2,000 gold peices

Danger At Sea
1. Sahaugin Sabateurs are just regular Sahaugin
2. Draggers have hardness 8 and 15 hit points, or require a DC 20 Disable Device Check
3. Characters Get Experience of a CR 6 Encounter

Stormreach:
1. Gather Information DC's reduced by 5
2. Surthain is a Mummy Figthter 1
3. Muroni is a 3rd level cleric and has only 1500 gp to offer the PC's to help pay for the marlow
4. Reduce the DC's of the Riverboat by 5, and make the costs 40% of their original amount
5. Award the PC's the equivalent of a CR 4 encounter if they negotiate passage

Adjust the river encounter accordingly

The Giant Hands:
1. Air skiff guards are War2's

The Ruin:
Pushing Doors open is a DC23 Str. Check
Adjust the random encounters accordingly by CR

1. The Drow party is 4 Drow Warriors
2. There are only 6 Dire Rats in the drow lair
8. The Spider is Huge and not Gargantuan, the coins are worth 1,200 gp to a colecter, the gems are worth 200 gp each, and instead of hte rod there's a Circlet of Persuasion and a Cloak of Resistance +1
9. Change the number of Emerald Claw Soldiers to 4
10. Replace the drowned with your favorite appropriate CR 6 encounter. The treasure is worth 200
12. Change the number of Mephits to 2
16. Change the mummy to a 4th level human sorcerer
17. Change the treasure to Amulet of Natural Armor +1
20. Change the Dire Apes to Regular Apes and change the number to 4
21. Change the Girallion to a Dire Ape and the treasure to a ring of protection +1
22. The Emerald Claw Soldiers have been ripped limb from limb. The trap is a Blade Barrier (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr7BladeBarrierTrap). I'm thinking of leaving the Tooth of At-Ta-Ir the same, but i'm not sure.
23.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr7BlackTentaclesTrap
24. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr4LightningBoltTrap
25. Replace the zombie with a Chimera Skeleton
29. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr4GlyphofWardingBlast. The stuff in this room costs 1600 gp
31. Replace that with the Ettin Skeleton
33. Use Garrow and Scimitar from the Whispers of the Vampire's Blade. I made scimitar a Warmage, but that's just my own personal flavor. Reduce the Soldiers to 4
34. The price of the bottles are 400 gp.
35. Reduce the Number of Wraiths to 1
37. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr4GlyphofWardingBlast, the Treasure is a +2 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt instead of a Manual of Bodily Health
39. The Monstrous Spiders are Medium
41. Xulo's body has the same stats as a Flesh Golem

I think that's it. Anything look out of the ordinary?
Wrathamon
01-15-07, 09:29 PM How's this for hilarious?

When I ran Shadows of the Last War for my fiancee and two of our friends, they actually managed to kill Garrow at the back of the church before he could drink his potion of invisibility.

Subsequently, they were not followed into the Mournland and avoided most of the fights on the way to Whitehearth.

The toughest fight they had was with the stone half-golem wolf in the kennel, actually. Even the fight with the elementals was a little easier, because they'd seen the illusory version first.

I heard that happens "often" actually and to use a "twin" brother of Garrows that pretends to be garrow. You could also make him truely undead later on if they dont dispose of the body.
mhacdebhandia
01-16-07, 12:17 AM Basically, I decided that the way they handled themselves in Rose Quarry meant that they had earned their freedom from pursuit:

They didn't alert the main camp of Emerald Claw soldiers to their presence, avoiding combat with the glass zombies where those soldiers might have heard them.
They ended up heading straight for the church where Garrow was excavating the graveyard; killing him before they left Rose Quarry meant that his zombie vulture couldn't follow them and lead the main Emerald Claw force to Whitehearth.
They took care of the Emerald Claw types in the map chamber quickly, and didn't raise the alarm there.
As soon as they figured out the location of Whitehearth, they headed straight out of Rose Quarry and into the Mournland.
Since the adventure, as written, relies on the device of Garrow's zombie vulture leading the Emerald Claw force on the PCs' trail, I felt it was just fair play to have their actions effectively destroy any chance the soldiers had to follow them.
My philosophy as a DM is that it's better to err on the side of operating according to circumstances as they've been established, rather than using the power of DM fiat to manipulate those circumstances for challenge or dramatic effect.

They also avoided quite a bit of trouble in the Mournland - it means they missed out on a bit of treasure, too, but there you go.
Recovering_Blackguard
01-16-07, 02:29 PM Blackguard, according to the character wealth by level, 4th level characters have 40% of the wealth of a 6th level character. Here's the changes i'd make so far.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Wow, very thorough. Thanks beezly.
Golbez57
01-16-07, 05:58 PM Grasp was very deadly... I have heard that Bruce Cordell wrote a variant of the shark encounter somewhere.

Yeppers; it's posted here (http://homepage.mac.com/macbrucecordell/B1283663648/C608165187/E1610916623/index.html), at his website. Still very challenging, I think, but I haven't DMed the adventure yet--with or without the original encounter--to know for certain.

While I'm at it, props to beezly for the excellent and thorough scaling! :clap:
Wrathamon
01-16-07, 06:07 PM Basically, I decided that the way they handled themselves in Rose Quarry meant that they had earned their freedom from pursuit:

I meant for the later adventures - Garrow is in all of them.
mhacdebhandia
01-16-07, 09:44 PM I meant for the later adventures - Garrow is in all of them.
Oh, of course.

Well, I ran Shadows of the Last War as a one-shot anyway, though my fiancee's character was the same changeling sorcerer she used when I ran The Forgotten Forge as a one-shot.

I certainly wouldn't have any qualms about having Garrow re-appear - why even offer an explanation?

To quote Geoffrey Rush, "It's a mystery."
Wrathamon
01-17-07, 02:37 PM Oh, of course.
why even offer an explanation? To quote Geoffrey Rush, "It's a mystery."

incase they investigate... or interogate. :)
mhacdebhandia
01-17-07, 04:04 PM Heh. Interrogation gets you an answer; there's no guarantee it's the truth.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mandarbgrim 01-25-05, 11:40 PM	*!!!SPOILERS!!!* I am really not understanding that battle at the end with Xulo and the primative Warforged. What is the purpose of destroying the pillars? Why should the characters destroy all the cords? It would seem a lot faster and easier to destroy the warforged. Especialy since it will be attacking them. 100 cord would take 100 attacks..assume I allow the PC's the option of destroying the organic cords with Fireballs or some other area of effect..that still leaves 50 metalic cords. How far the cords supposed to be spaced, as well? I really like the idea of including them..but don't see how it helps the PC's in any way. To attack Xulo you simply attack the complete creation pattern..then when you do enough damage it falls back into the pieces and become inert? Is the last battle with the Warforged an automatic occurance? Why even leave search options and such available if I am just going to force the plot into a certain direction? Am I correct in understanding that Muroni becomes an active member of the party? Her being 4th level makes her rather weak as an active member doesn't it? Does anyone else thing the 4 adventures in this campaign are especially deadly? 1st- Likilihood of a weak character being downed by a sneak attack on a surprise round of combat. Magic traps if the characters aren't being especially clever. Swarm that can't be hit by weapons. 3rd level Fighter who ambushes party. This doesn't seem that bad, but.. 2nd- Adventuring in the Mournlands with no healing. Hard battles during this. End battle with Garrow and crew if characters do the "right" thing. 3rd- Masquerade encounter-difficulty getting into, battle with no armor or possiblly weapons. Fall for 12d6 damage???? I don't see many good options to instantly occur to/or be available to characters of 4th-5th level. 4th- Even harder battles during this one. Getting bullrushed or washed off of building. Magic traps that can kill wounded characters with a single attack. I just have a feeling that the people I am DMing this for won't survive through all of it without me fudging rolls, or giving major hints. I don't mind players dying..when they do something stupid. Not just because they don't happen to be especially clever and creative.
Firiel Tindomerel 01-26-05, 03:18 AM	Does anyone else thing the 4 adventures in this campaign are especially deadly? It depends a lot on both players and characters, IMHO. 1st- Likilihood of a weak character being downed by a sneak attack on a surprise round of combat. Magic traps if the characters aren't being especially clever. Swarm that can't be hit by weapons. 3rd level Fighter who ambushes party. This doesn't seem that bad, but.. The worse being the sneak attack, I guess... for the swarm there is always fire, and the traps are just part of every game. (always IMHO). 2nd- Adventuring in the Mournlands with no healing. Hard battles during this. End battle with Garrow and crew if characters do the "right" thing. The Mournland depends on how you handle healing (allowing rope trick or not) my party wizards fainted vs the carcass crab, nothing that bad :D I agree, the final battle is a bit too much to handle, but it's not a battle the party is supposed to win either :) 3rd- Masquerade encounter-difficulty getting into, battle with no armor or possiblly weapons. Fall for 12d6 damage???? I don't see many good options to instantly occur to/or be available to characters of 4th-5th level. I will DM this on sunday, I've seen there are quite a lot of feather fall ring around... and they got plenty of time to do something clever, anyway. 4th- Even harder battles during this one. Getting bullrushed or washed off of building. Magic traps that can kill wounded characters with a single attack. I want the boook!!! :D It's not arrived in Switzerland yet! :( I just have a feeling that the people I am DMing this for won't survive through all of it without me fudging rolls, or giving major hints. Whell, you have to, if you want a fun game and they arent up to the task... I don't mind players dying..when they do something stupid. Not just because they don't happen to be especially clever and creative I do... a player rarely dies in my campaing, he really has to do something really, really stupid... I dont let a wrong die roll get into their path, sometimes :grin:
nick012000 01-26-05, 05:27 AM	*!!!SPOILERS!!!* I am really not understanding that battle at the end with Xulo and the primative Warforged. What is the purpose of destroying the pillars? Why should the characters destroy all the cords? It would seem a lot faster and easier to destroy the warforged. Especialy since it will be attacking them. 100 cord would take 100 attacks..assume I allow the PC's the option of destroying the organic cords with Fireballs or some other area of effect..that still leaves 50 metalic cords. How far the cords supposed to be spaced, as well? I really like the idea of including them..but don't see how it helps the PC's in any way. I think that you're supposed to be able to damage all of them with area attacks. The first average 6d6 fireball (21 damage) will take out all of the organic ones and leave the metallic ones in bad shape. The second will take out all of the metallic ones as well.
Mandarbgrim 01-26-05, 11:48 AM	I think I might describe the situation in more detail.. and have the cabes coming out on each side...so it will only take an area attack to destroy each bundle of organic..and not much effort to destroy the metalic. And if they don't pick up on the idea that the cables are feeding him power... oh well. Or maybe make it obvious that cables are helping him..pulsing energy running down their length and the blows he is taking are being healed. Probably too hard. Yeah..I am with you on not killing people. I mean.. the people I play with don't have the 16 INT or more their characters have. So I can't expect them to be able to be clever and figure everything out everytime. I don't really like killing people period. Unless they do something really stupid...like.."" I jump into the frozen river and swim after him" "In your full plate armor with no ranks in Swim?" "Yeah." Or the first level fighter continues to mouth off to the 20th level Wizard with a temper after the other characters have left the room and are hiding behind the biggest pillars they can find. But usually I have seen DM's come up with some obvious consequence of their actions that punish them and make them realize they are pushing the realism to absurdity. So I prefer that method.
Golbez57 01-26-05, 01:50 PM	Yes, these are certainly tough adventures. Aside from the difficulty of healing being impaired in the Mournland (I can't see anyone surviving this without adjusting either the adventure or that restriction), the party will probably need to be balanced in a way that they have access to healing magic in order to survive. As was alluded to already by Firiel Tindomerel regarding the final confrontation of Shadows, it's okay for the heroes to drop between -1 and -9 hit points, and at that point, you should just have the bad guys shift attention to someone else. Eberron is intended to have a cinematic feel, and I can't think of an action movie right now where: a) the good guys come through unscathed and don't get knocked for a loop at least once; or b) the bad guys give all of their attention to finishing off the unconscious hero while others still stand. About Grasp... For the final conflict with Xulo, I personally will be having Garrow physically try to fight off its influence, assuming he reaches that part of the ziggarut. You know, one of those, "you're my enemy, and I will kill you once our mutual foe is done for!" scenes--with some interesting role-playing/combat following the hopeful defeat of Xulo. Your additional description sounds good, Mandarbgrim, but if the players at the time don't catch on, I might have Garrow--again assuming he's around--hack away at one of the cords. That's just an exciting scene to imagine: some characters rushing around trying to "cut the power" to the huge Warforged while their companions try to keep it at bay.
bykov1 01-11-07, 01:03 PM	Running my players through Grasp I have noticed some details that would prevent certain character death could have been expounded. Our thief managed a reflex save on the second spike he hit on the way down (the module did not give this sort of enlightenment, which seemed most obvious).....but then he realized that he had a ring of featherfall and let go....hehehe. But the previous adventure had the potential to supply the whole group with Rings of Featherfall for this final adventure. I have noticed that the adventure has had a few traps that were not meant to be found by a party of 6th level, and thus the subsequent not finding of said trap would lead to a most horrid death. Then on the otherside, the Emerald Claw have been almost completely ineffective. Muroni and her healing arts have been completely tapped out. Muroni has already gone up 3 levels (which brings up the obscenely frequent leveling in 3e, but that it a separate topic. The power level of this adventure does not seem to have been play-tested well. But all in all, it has been very enjoyable.
Recovering_Blackguard 01-11-07, 03:01 PM	Any advice for modifying Grasp for 4th level characters? My players are just finishing up Shadows (and yes, I tweaked the Mournland/healing thing a bit), and I'm sensing they may want to finish the tale of the schemas w/o taking a sidetrip through Whisper. Scaling down the monsters is one thing, but some of the traps and structural dangers (e.g., falling off the side of the building) seen tougher to tweak w/o eliminating entirely.
Wrathamon 01-12-07, 07:13 PM	Grasp was very deadly... I have heard that Bruce Cordell wrote a variant of the shark encounter somewhere. Xulo was very tough but my group didnt have your typical arcane blaster nor CoDzilla.
Bluebrush 01-12-07, 09:31 PM	2nd- Adventuring in the Mournlands with no healing. Hard battles during this. End battle with Garrow and crew if characters do the "right" thing.Part of what makes it tricky is that the adventure was designed before the whole "No healing in the mournland" thing was decided. It's been suggested by KB that you could fudge this a bit by giving Whitehearth a magical abjuration field (To avert detection, contain accidents, etc) which blocks the effect of the mourning.
Wrathamon 01-12-07, 09:42 PM	Part of what makes it tricky is that the adventure was designed before the whole "No healing in the mournland" thing was decided. It's been suggested by KB that you could fudge this a bit by giving Whitehearth a magical abjuration field (To avert detection, contain accidents, etc) which blocks the effect of the mourning. I made one of the rooms an interdimensional space so the player's could rest up before the big battle. the idea was that this was a testing room for dangerous experiements.
beezly 01-13-07, 09:48 AM	Any advice for modifying Grasp for 4th level characters? My players are just finishing up Shadows (and yes, I tweaked the Mournland/healing thing a bit), and I'm sensing they may want to finish the tale of the schemas w/o taking a sidetrip through Whisper. Scaling down the monsters is one thing, but some of the traps and structural dangers (e.g., falling off the side of the building) seen tougher to tweak w/o eliminating entirely. This sounds really great, because i was really wanting to Do Red Hand of Doom with the warforged in the mournland with Xulo as the new object of worship. I'd really like to see what changes you made. As for the structural dangers, make the Zuggurat strcture a pyramid and then if someone falls, they slide down, taking X damage but not the full falling damage.
Recovering_Blackguard 01-13-07, 02:45 PM	I'd really like to see what changes you made. Basically I ruled that magical healing does work in the Mournland, but is only half as effective as normal (rounded down). So, for example, a potion of Cure Light, which would normally heal 1d8+1; heals 1d4 in the Mournland. Etc. As for the structural dangers, make the Zuggurat strcture a pyramid and then if someone falls, they slide down, taking X damage but not the full falling damage. Excellent idea. Consider it stolen.
beezly 01-13-07, 05:30 PM	I was asing more about what you did with the encounters when converting Grasp to 4th level, but that mournland idea is excellent.
mhacdebhandia 01-13-07, 05:42 PM	How's this for hilarious? When I ran Shadows of the Last War for my fiancee and two of our friends, they actually managed to kill Garrow at the back of the church before he could drink his potion of invisibility. Subsequently, they were not followed into the Mournland and avoided most of the fights on the way to Whitehearth. The toughest fight they had was with the stone half-golem wolf in the kennel, actually. Even the fight with the elementals was a little easier, because they'd seen the illusory version first.
Recovering_Blackguard 01-15-07, 01:12 PM	I was asing more about what you did with the encounters when converting Grasp to 4th level, but that mournland idea is excellent. Beezly - check out my original post. I haven't modified Grasp for 4th level characters; I was asking for suggestions on how to do it.
beezly 01-15-07, 03:09 PM	Blackguard, according to the character wealth by level, 4th level characters have 40% of the wealth of a 6th level character. Here's the changes i'd make so far. SPOILERS AHEAD Town House 19 1. 2 Karrnathi Zombies 2. Payment is 2,000 Gold peices each 3. Upfront Payment is 2,000 gold peices Danger At Sea 1. Sahaugin Sabateurs are just regular Sahaugin 2. Draggers have hardness 8 and 15 hit points, or require a DC 20 Disable Device Check 3. Characters Get Experience of a CR 6 Encounter Stormreach: 1. Gather Information DC's reduced by 5 2. Surthain is a Mummy Figthter 1 3. Muroni is a 3rd level cleric and has only 1500 gp to offer the PC's to help pay for the marlow 4. Reduce the DC's of the Riverboat by 5, and make the costs 40% of their original amount 5. Award the PC's the equivalent of a CR 4 encounter if they negotiate passage Adjust the river encounter accordingly The Giant Hands: 1. Air skiff guards are War2's The Ruin: Pushing Doors open is a DC23 Str. Check Adjust the random encounters accordingly by CR 1. The Drow party is 4 Drow Warriors 2. There are only 6 Dire Rats in the drow lair 8. The Spider is Huge and not Gargantuan, the coins are worth 1,200 gp to a colecter, the gems are worth 200 gp each, and instead of hte rod there's a Circlet of Persuasion and a Cloak of Resistance +1 9. Change the number of Emerald Claw Soldiers to 4 10. Replace the drowned with your favorite appropriate CR 6 encounter. The treasure is worth 200 12. Change the number of Mephits to 2 16. Change the mummy to a 4th level human sorcerer 17. Change the treasure to Amulet of Natural Armor +1 20. Change the Dire Apes to Regular Apes and change the number to 4 21. Change the Girallion to a Dire Ape and the treasure to a ring of protection +1 22. The Emerald Claw Soldiers have been ripped limb from limb. The trap is a Blade Barrier (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr7BladeBarrierTrap). I'm thinking of leaving the Tooth of At-Ta-Ir the same, but i'm not sure. 23. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr7BlackTentaclesTrap 24. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr4LightningBoltTrap 25. Replace the zombie with a Chimera Skeleton 29. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr4GlyphofWardingBlast. The stuff in this room costs 1600 gp 31. Replace that with the Ettin Skeleton 33. Use Garrow and Scimitar from the Whispers of the Vampire's Blade. I made scimitar a Warmage, but that's just my own personal flavor. Reduce the Soldiers to 4 34. The price of the bottles are 400 gp. 35. Reduce the Number of Wraiths to 1 37. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr4GlyphofWardingBlast, the Treasure is a +2 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt instead of a Manual of Bodily Health 39. The Monstrous Spiders are Medium 41. Xulo's body has the same stats as a Flesh Golem I think that's it. Anything look out of the ordinary?
Wrathamon 01-15-07, 09:29 PM	How's this for hilarious? When I ran Shadows of the Last War for my fiancee and two of our friends, they actually managed to kill Garrow at the back of the church before he could drink his potion of invisibility. Subsequently, they were not followed into the Mournland and avoided most of the fights on the way to Whitehearth. The toughest fight they had was with the stone half-golem wolf in the kennel, actually. Even the fight with the elementals was a little easier, because they'd seen the illusory version first. I heard that happens "often" actually and to use a "twin" brother of Garrows that pretends to be garrow. You could also make him truely undead later on if they dont dispose of the body.
mhacdebhandia 01-16-07, 12:17 AM	Basically, I decided that the way they handled themselves in Rose Quarry meant that they had earned their freedom from pursuit: They didn't alert the main camp of Emerald Claw soldiers to their presence, avoiding combat with the glass zombies where those soldiers might have heard them. They ended up heading straight for the church where Garrow was excavating the graveyard; killing him before they left Rose Quarry meant that his zombie vulture couldn't follow them and lead the main Emerald Claw force to Whitehearth. They took care of the Emerald Claw types in the map chamber quickly, and didn't raise the alarm there. As soon as they figured out the location of Whitehearth, they headed straight out of Rose Quarry and into the Mournland. Since the adventure, as written, relies on the device of Garrow's zombie vulture leading the Emerald Claw force on the PCs' trail, I felt it was just fair play to have their actions effectively destroy any chance the soldiers had to follow them. My philosophy as a DM is that it's better to err on the side of operating according to circumstances as they've been established, rather than using the power of DM fiat to manipulate those circumstances for challenge or dramatic effect. They also avoided quite a bit of trouble in the Mournland - it means they missed out on a bit of treasure, too, but there you go.
Recovering_Blackguard 01-16-07, 02:29 PM	Blackguard, according to the character wealth by level, 4th level characters have 40% of the wealth of a 6th level character. Here's the changes i'd make so far. SPOILERS AHEAD Wow, very thorough. Thanks beezly.
Golbez57 01-16-07, 05:58 PM	Grasp was very deadly... I have heard that Bruce Cordell wrote a variant of the shark encounter somewhere. Yeppers; it's posted here (http://homepage.mac.com/macbrucecordell/B1283663648/C608165187/E1610916623/index.html), at his website. Still very challenging, I think, but I haven't DMed the adventure yet--with or without the original encounter--to know for certain. While I'm at it, props to beezly for the excellent and thorough scaling! :clap:
Wrathamon 01-16-07, 06:07 PM	Basically, I decided that the way they handled themselves in Rose Quarry meant that they had earned their freedom from pursuit: I meant for the later adventures - Garrow is in all of them.
mhacdebhandia 01-16-07, 09:44 PM	I meant for the later adventures - Garrow is in all of them. Oh, of course. Well, I ran Shadows of the Last War as a one-shot anyway, though my fiancee's character was the same changeling sorcerer she used when I ran The Forgotten Forge as a one-shot. I certainly wouldn't have any qualms about having Garrow re-appear - why even offer an explanation? To quote Geoffrey Rush, "It's a mystery."
Wrathamon 01-17-07, 02:37 PM	Oh, of course. why even offer an explanation? To quote Geoffrey Rush, "It's a mystery." incase they investigate... or interogate. :)
mhacdebhandia 01-17-07, 04:04 PM	Heh. Interrogation gets you an answer; there's no guarantee it's the truth.