Handling Death in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Handling Death in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
debatedeus
11-01-04, 10:41 AM I was DMing a game last night when my PCs were fighting a group of Sahuagin. I called for initiative, and the rouge had the highest and so went first. His character drew out alchemist's frost, charged ahead, and tossed it at a flat footed Sahuagin. Then it was my turn, and since the rouge was in front, the sahuagin charged her. Long story shorter, one of the Sahuagin got a crit for max damage and dropped the rouge, and another took a 5 foot step and performed a coup de grace.

I tried to state to gravity of her death in the game with my description, but the PCs just didn't bite (except for her handler, HE was definitely unhappy).

It is somewhat understandable because the the party of PCs just started up, so they aren't very close yet (even though the group, in character, has been working together for ever). In any case, I want to have a bit next session to reflect the gravity of death in Eberron, and the loss of a good friend. Any good ideas?
dentris
11-01-04, 10:49 AM In many DnD worlds, death is a certainty. Gods do exist and life after death is a reality, not just a question of faith. In Eberron, death and what lies beyond this barrier is based on faith...In a Forgotten Ralm campaign, a devoted follower of Tyr dies. All his comrades know he went in his patron's realm. He is probably happy now. In Eberron, who knows what happen to their rogue companion...Maybe his soul simply vanished, or is about to be absorbed by the plane of death, forever destroying his memories. Who knows. That is what makes Eberron different.
Brianish
11-01-04, 10:55 AM Also the fact that we only know of two NPCs in the whole world who can perform Resurrection, and one of them is basically the Pope.
qwykee
11-01-04, 12:03 PM It is somewhat understandable because the the party of PCs just started up, so they aren't very close yet (even though the group, in character, has been working together for ever). In any case, I want to have a bit next session to reflect the gravity of death in Eberron, and the loss of a good friend. Any good ideas?

Well assuming that they aren't in the middle of a mission with a very tight timeline, they should see to it that she has a decent burial. They should have and attend funeral services, they may need to transport the body back to her homeland and alert any relatives of her demise (this is a great way for the player to come up with a new character to join the party).
james bierly
11-02-04, 02:09 PM Also the fact that we only know of two NPCs in the whole world who can perform Resurrection, and one of them is basically the Pope.
Who is the other one?
Gurv
11-02-04, 02:26 PM I once played in a game where if a character died and the player had to create a new character, everyone had to contribute XP to make up the new character's levels. It wasn't a direct expense, for every point someone contributed, the new character got two. Its not what I do, but if your players are having trouble feeling the loss, then making it manifest into XP has a way of quickly changing their ways. Strangely enough, the loss of XP has the effect of causing them to feel the loss.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
11-02-04, 03:33 PM Who is the other one?

A certain unfriendly lich queen, another leader of an entire religion.
stone_dog
11-02-04, 04:09 PM A certain unfriendly lich queen, another leader of an entire religion. I seem to recall her being a 15th level wizard without cleric levels though. Of course, I'd rather put her at wizard3/cleric3/true necro 14 with a few levels of that template that makes freaky old undead more powerful, but that is just me.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
11-02-04, 04:59 PM I seem to recall her being a 15th level wizard without cleric levels though. Of course, I'd rather put her at wizard3/cleric3/true necro 14 with a few levels of that template that makes freaky old undead more powerful, but that is just me.

Ah, my mistake. I guess use lich clerics so often I forget they can be wizards! On a quick check, she is a Wizard 16. I was thinking Cleric 16 :rolleyes:
Another NPC able to return you to life would be Oalian, with his reincarnate spell. I can't think of a high level cleric other than Jaela.
Peter the Hegemon
12-04-04, 04:13 AM Tezaera of Mendyrian, the Sibling Queen of Aerenal, is a level 16 cleric of the Undying Court. Her husband and brother, Belaereth the Sibling King, is a level 2 fighter/level 12 clericof the Undying Court. So Tezaera can do it, and so could Belaereth (at least, whenever he levels up).
ThanisKartaleon
12-04-04, 06:04 AM ...and one of them is basically the Pope.
Wow. Now I can call the Pope a little girl and not even smile.

...

Okay, yeah, that's funny.

(disclaimer: this is not meant to offend any.... oh who am I kidding? Who can't find this funny?)
MarkB
12-04-04, 07:06 AM Actually, there is another option for resurrection - a purely commercial one, which short-cuts Eberron's usual no-divine-spells-for-cash rule. House Jorasco have access to a Wondrous Item called the Altar of Resurrection, and will charge standard casting rates for its use. It's likely that only one or two exist, so you'd probably have to go to their main HQ in Karrnath, but it is an option.
grey muse
12-04-04, 12:56 PM The altar of resurrection is an interesting idea, but I don't know if I like the flavor of it. I'd be veeeerrrrrry leery of introducing any unlimited-use resurrection items into the game -- otherwise, why would any of the higher-ups in Jorasco ever die? Or any of their allies?

One solution I've come up with is to have a magical/alchemical mixture which takes a person from death to stable at -9 if administered within one minute of death. It's made from a concoction of rare plants indigenous to Aerenal, Wen'drik, and the Eldeen Reaches, meaning it's exceedingly difficult to get the components to make even one draught.

By letting the party have a vial or two of this, you can somewhat avoid accidental combat death without drastically altering the politics of the world.

grey muse
hiryuu
12-04-04, 01:13 PM The altar of resurrection is an interesting idea, but I don't know if I like the flavor of it. I'd be veeeerrrrrry leery of introducing any unlimited-use resurrection items into the game -- otherwise, why would any of the higher-ups in Jorasco ever die? Or any of their allies?

Because you need the body intact. The killer just takes the body and burns it or dumps acid on it, no altar for you.
nyysjan
12-04-04, 01:41 PM and the altar works only for the right halflings
grey muse
12-04-04, 02:10 PM You don't need the body to cast resurrection, just a small portion of it. Dunking someone in acid might work if the bones dissolve too, but fire would probably leave the bones behind.

Even if you restrict its use to halflings with the greater Mark of Healing, it's still really powerful. It's probably not something Jorasco would put on the open market. If they did, rulers could just pay them in advance to revive them in case of "accidents", and it'd do away with a lot of poltical intrigue. I'd say it's something the characters would only have available if they had some favors owed them by Jorasco.

grey muse
Brianish
12-04-04, 03:16 PM Who is the other one?

Oalian
nyysjan
12-04-04, 03:43 PM and the woody probably won't bother

(especially if you call him/her woody :P )

on unrelated what gender is Oalian
Teron Gorefiend
12-04-04, 04:07 PM and the woody probably won't bother

(especially if you call him/her woody :P )

on unrelated what gender is Oalian
Obviously he's sexless, but I seem to recall male pronouns being used in the book, so I suppose he's mentally closer to male, if anything.

Of course, this will probably spark a discussion on whether trees can have breasts.
Ashaman Joe
12-04-04, 04:13 PM On top of that, he doesn't think anything like humans would. Its simpler to refer to him with a gender, but when you've essentially got all of eternity to live, you don't act like everyone else. ;)
Neofish
12-04-04, 05:20 PM Who is the other one?

The Sliver Flame chick in Sharn, ArchHierophant Ythana Morr, can bring dead heros back to life....

Buts it's gonna cost more than gold for her services...
grey muse
12-04-04, 05:34 PM Obviously he's sexless,

Actually, some trees (including conifers, such as the greatpine presumably is) reproduce sexually.

You're probably right, though, if you say he's genderless. Er, it's genderless. Or something. :)

grey muse
Ramses III
12-04-04, 06:06 PM On top of that, he doesn't think anything like humans would. Its simpler to refer to him with a gender, but when you've essentially got all of eternity to live, you don't act like everyone else.
It's shorter to write the word "it" than "him." Thus it's actually simpler to refer to it without a gender, at least as far as pronoun usage goes. :P
Teron Gorefiend
12-04-04, 06:42 PM Actually, some trees (including conifers, such as the greatpine presumably is) reproduce sexually.

You're probably right, though, if you say he's genderless. Er, it's genderless. Or something. :)

grey muse
Hmm, good point. My memory is a little foggy on the topic, but I assume conifers reproduce by standard pollination? If so, that actually makes Oalian hermaphroditic. I do maintain that he's genderless, however.
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!!
12-04-04, 07:26 PM Maybe you could make it that her body was taken by the emerald claw and now is an evil undead rogue. Your friends are now your enemys. Thats my ideal.
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!!
12-04-04, 07:27 PM Obviously he's sexless, but I seem to recall male pronouns being used in the book, so I suppose he's mentally closer to male, if anything.

Of course, this will probably spark a discussion on whether trees can have breasts.
Maybe hes bi.... and trees dont have breast, if they did then dirty old men would be groping them all day.
grey muse
12-04-04, 07:43 PM Hmm, good point. My memory is a little foggy on the topic, but I assume conifers reproduce by standard pollination? If so, that actually makes Oalian hermaphroditic. I do maintain that he's genderless, however.

I don't remember much either, but google yielded this link (in addition to a bunch of links about tree sex that I wasn't brave enough to click on):
http://www.backyardnature.net/conifers.htm

But yeah, gender is pretty meaningless when you're talking about an 8000 year old tree. And it shouldn't really matter, unless your party has a particularly promiscuous druid, or something. :)

grey muse
Peter the Hegemon
12-05-04, 02:04 AM I wasn't aware that Oalian could resurrect anyone . . . druids just have reincarnate.
Taelok
12-05-04, 02:11 AM I tried to state to gravity of her death in the game with my description, but the PCs just didn't bite. In any case, I want to have a bit next session to reflect the gravity of death in Eberron, and the loss of a good friend. Any good ideas?

What are your views on Dolurrh? even if you got resurrected, you have to make that will save to keep your memories, then drop a wish or miracle to get them back if you fail the save. Dolurrh is not in-game information unless you got some serious ranks in Knowledge(the planes), so death is a very permanant thing. Now, how to translate this knowledge into ideas that can be expressed to the surviving characters.

In Dolurrh you become a shade and lose your memories, but what happens after that? I use the idea that the memories are sucked through a membrane/filter and these shades with no memories are the source of the warforged's intelligence. The creation forges skim off the top of this membrane and put these memoryless shades into fresh shells.

What this means for your question is to have the guy playing the rogue make up a warforged character of his design. He died while fighting Sahuagin, so it sounds like you are adventuring to or in Xen'drik. While there, near one of the original forges, have some of his memories start to pop back in, similar to the Immancipated Spawn from Savage Species. The characters would get creeped out about their souls being recycled like that and seek out Cannith for answers. I play up the fact that Cannith doesn't know how the forges work, just that they do. The only one with any true knowledge of the forges are the giants of Xen'drik.

Playing out the few levels of warforged and then have his rogue identity return to him in clumps will provide a dramatic look at the afterlife and what is being done to the restful souls of their dearly departed. Who is right/wrong about death and the afterlife? Cannith for recycling the souls for profit? Blood of Vol for their necromantic rites trying to extend their time on Eberron before they get banished from the plane of the living by the evil gods? These questions and more will keep your players tossing in their sleep dreading the day of their own deaths and what will become of them after they bite the big one.
Inadequate
12-05-04, 04:03 AM Well if you want to get the right "we've just lost a friend mood"
you should (as the dm) first of all get the right music (I assume that you listen to music when you game, if you do not, I would advise you to do it, it really creates a brilliant mood)
Second of all, try to describe to the players, what has just happened. Nothing makes the character think more when you give them an "epilogue" to the terrible thing that has just happened.

Example:

"So as you finish the rough fighting you soon realise that the cleric wasn't able to do anything about Emilia, It's a tough thing loosing a good friend, another life wasted for the sake of bringing justice to this cruel world.
A thick cloud of sadness rises above you, the guilt and regret will be hard to process, but you must battle on"

In general I'm very much against telling PC's what they think, but in these situation I'm large enough to bend the rules a bit.
Making this sort of epilogue also makes the dead player feel more important etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
debatedeus 11-01-04, 10:41 AM	I was DMing a game last night when my PCs were fighting a group of Sahuagin. I called for initiative, and the rouge had the highest and so went first. His character drew out alchemist's frost, charged ahead, and tossed it at a flat footed Sahuagin. Then it was my turn, and since the rouge was in front, the sahuagin charged her. Long story shorter, one of the Sahuagin got a crit for max damage and dropped the rouge, and another took a 5 foot step and performed a coup de grace. I tried to state to gravity of her death in the game with my description, but the PCs just didn't bite (except for her handler, HE was definitely unhappy). It is somewhat understandable because the the party of PCs just started up, so they aren't very close yet (even though the group, in character, has been working together for ever). In any case, I want to have a bit next session to reflect the gravity of death in Eberron, and the loss of a good friend. Any good ideas?
dentris 11-01-04, 10:49 AM	In many DnD worlds, death is a certainty. Gods do exist and life after death is a reality, not just a question of faith. In Eberron, death and what lies beyond this barrier is based on faith...In a Forgotten Ralm campaign, a devoted follower of Tyr dies. All his comrades know he went in his patron's realm. He is probably happy now. In Eberron, who knows what happen to their rogue companion...Maybe his soul simply vanished, or is about to be absorbed by the plane of death, forever destroying his memories. Who knows. That is what makes Eberron different.
Brianish 11-01-04, 10:55 AM	Also the fact that we only know of two NPCs in the whole world who can perform Resurrection, and one of them is basically the Pope.
qwykee 11-01-04, 12:03 PM	It is somewhat understandable because the the party of PCs just started up, so they aren't very close yet (even though the group, in character, has been working together for ever). In any case, I want to have a bit next session to reflect the gravity of death in Eberron, and the loss of a good friend. Any good ideas? Well assuming that they aren't in the middle of a mission with a very tight timeline, they should see to it that she has a decent burial. They should have and attend funeral services, they may need to transport the body back to her homeland and alert any relatives of her demise (this is a great way for the player to come up with a new character to join the party).
james bierly 11-02-04, 02:09 PM	Also the fact that we only know of two NPCs in the whole world who can perform Resurrection, and one of them is basically the Pope. Who is the other one?
Gurv 11-02-04, 02:26 PM	I once played in a game where if a character died and the player had to create a new character, everyone had to contribute XP to make up the new character's levels. It wasn't a direct expense, for every point someone contributed, the new character got two. Its not what I do, but if your players are having trouble feeling the loss, then making it manifest into XP has a way of quickly changing their ways. Strangely enough, the loss of XP has the effect of causing them to feel the loss.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 11-02-04, 03:33 PM	Who is the other one? A certain unfriendly lich queen, another leader of an entire religion.
stone_dog 11-02-04, 04:09 PM	A certain unfriendly lich queen, another leader of an entire religion. I seem to recall her being a 15th level wizard without cleric levels though. Of course, I'd rather put her at wizard3/cleric3/true necro 14 with a few levels of that template that makes freaky old undead more powerful, but that is just me.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 11-02-04, 04:59 PM	I seem to recall her being a 15th level wizard without cleric levels though. Of course, I'd rather put her at wizard3/cleric3/true necro 14 with a few levels of that template that makes freaky old undead more powerful, but that is just me. Ah, my mistake. I guess use lich clerics so often I forget they can be wizards! On a quick check, she is a Wizard 16. I was thinking Cleric 16 :rolleyes: Another NPC able to return you to life would be Oalian, with his reincarnate spell. I can't think of a high level cleric other than Jaela.
Peter the Hegemon 12-04-04, 04:13 AM	Tezaera of Mendyrian, the Sibling Queen of Aerenal, is a level 16 cleric of the Undying Court. Her husband and brother, Belaereth the Sibling King, is a level 2 fighter/level 12 clericof the Undying Court. So Tezaera can do it, and so could Belaereth (at least, whenever he levels up).
ThanisKartaleon 12-04-04, 06:04 AM	...and one of them is basically the Pope. Wow. Now I can call the Pope a little girl and not even smile. ... Okay, yeah, that's funny. (disclaimer: this is not meant to offend any.... oh who am I kidding? Who can't find this funny?)
MarkB 12-04-04, 07:06 AM	Actually, there is another option for resurrection - a purely commercial one, which short-cuts Eberron's usual no-divine-spells-for-cash rule. House Jorasco have access to a Wondrous Item called the Altar of Resurrection, and will charge standard casting rates for its use. It's likely that only one or two exist, so you'd probably have to go to their main HQ in Karrnath, but it is an option.
grey muse 12-04-04, 12:56 PM	The altar of resurrection is an interesting idea, but I don't know if I like the flavor of it. I'd be veeeerrrrrry leery of introducing any unlimited-use resurrection items into the game -- otherwise, why would any of the higher-ups in Jorasco ever die? Or any of their allies? One solution I've come up with is to have a magical/alchemical mixture which takes a person from death to stable at -9 if administered within one minute of death. It's made from a concoction of rare plants indigenous to Aerenal, Wen'drik, and the Eldeen Reaches, meaning it's exceedingly difficult to get the components to make even one draught. By letting the party have a vial or two of this, you can somewhat avoid accidental combat death without drastically altering the politics of the world. grey muse
hiryuu 12-04-04, 01:13 PM	The altar of resurrection is an interesting idea, but I don't know if I like the flavor of it. I'd be veeeerrrrrry leery of introducing any unlimited-use resurrection items into the game -- otherwise, why would any of the higher-ups in Jorasco ever die? Or any of their allies? Because you need the body intact. The killer just takes the body and burns it or dumps acid on it, no altar for you.
nyysjan 12-04-04, 01:41 PM	and the altar works only for the right halflings
grey muse 12-04-04, 02:10 PM	You don't need the body to cast resurrection, just a small portion of it. Dunking someone in acid might work if the bones dissolve too, but fire would probably leave the bones behind. Even if you restrict its use to halflings with the greater Mark of Healing, it's still really powerful. It's probably not something Jorasco would put on the open market. If they did, rulers could just pay them in advance to revive them in case of "accidents", and it'd do away with a lot of poltical intrigue. I'd say it's something the characters would only have available if they had some favors owed them by Jorasco. grey muse
Brianish 12-04-04, 03:16 PM	Who is the other one? Oalian
nyysjan 12-04-04, 03:43 PM	and the woody probably won't bother (especially if you call him/her woody :P ) on unrelated what gender is Oalian
Teron Gorefiend 12-04-04, 04:07 PM	and the woody probably won't bother (especially if you call him/her woody :P ) on unrelated what gender is Oalian Obviously he's sexless, but I seem to recall male pronouns being used in the book, so I suppose he's mentally closer to male, if anything. Of course, this will probably spark a discussion on whether trees can have breasts.
Ashaman Joe 12-04-04, 04:13 PM	On top of that, he doesn't think anything like humans would. Its simpler to refer to him with a gender, but when you've essentially got all of eternity to live, you don't act like everyone else. ;)
Neofish 12-04-04, 05:20 PM	Who is the other one? The Sliver Flame chick in Sharn, ArchHierophant Ythana Morr, can bring dead heros back to life.... Buts it's gonna cost more than gold for her services...
grey muse 12-04-04, 05:34 PM	Obviously he's sexless, Actually, some trees (including conifers, such as the greatpine presumably is) reproduce sexually. You're probably right, though, if you say he's genderless. Er, it's genderless. Or something. :) grey muse
Ramses III 12-04-04, 06:06 PM	On top of that, he doesn't think anything like humans would. Its simpler to refer to him with a gender, but when you've essentially got all of eternity to live, you don't act like everyone else. It's shorter to write the word "it" than "him." Thus it's actually simpler to refer to it without a gender, at least as far as pronoun usage goes. :P
Teron Gorefiend 12-04-04, 06:42 PM	Actually, some trees (including conifers, such as the greatpine presumably is) reproduce sexually. You're probably right, though, if you say he's genderless. Er, it's genderless. Or something. :) grey muse Hmm, good point. My memory is a little foggy on the topic, but I assume conifers reproduce by standard pollination? If so, that actually makes Oalian hermaphroditic. I do maintain that he's genderless, however.
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!! 12-04-04, 07:26 PM	Maybe you could make it that her body was taken by the emerald claw and now is an evil undead rogue. Your friends are now your enemys. Thats my ideal.
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!! 12-04-04, 07:27 PM	Obviously he's sexless, but I seem to recall male pronouns being used in the book, so I suppose he's mentally closer to male, if anything. Of course, this will probably spark a discussion on whether trees can have breasts. Maybe hes bi.... and trees dont have breast, if they did then dirty old men would be groping them all day.
grey muse 12-04-04, 07:43 PM	Hmm, good point. My memory is a little foggy on the topic, but I assume conifers reproduce by standard pollination? If so, that actually makes Oalian hermaphroditic. I do maintain that he's genderless, however. I don't remember much either, but google yielded this link (in addition to a bunch of links about tree sex that I wasn't brave enough to click on): http://www.backyardnature.net/conifers.htm But yeah, gender is pretty meaningless when you're talking about an 8000 year old tree. And it shouldn't really matter, unless your party has a particularly promiscuous druid, or something. :) grey muse
Peter the Hegemon 12-05-04, 02:04 AM	I wasn't aware that Oalian could resurrect anyone . . . druids just have reincarnate.
Taelok 12-05-04, 02:11 AM	I tried to state to gravity of her death in the game with my description, but the PCs just didn't bite. In any case, I want to have a bit next session to reflect the gravity of death in Eberron, and the loss of a good friend. Any good ideas? What are your views on Dolurrh? even if you got resurrected, you have to make that will save to keep your memories, then drop a wish or miracle to get them back if you fail the save. Dolurrh is not in-game information unless you got some serious ranks in Knowledge(the planes), so death is a very permanant thing. Now, how to translate this knowledge into ideas that can be expressed to the surviving characters. In Dolurrh you become a shade and lose your memories, but what happens after that? I use the idea that the memories are sucked through a membrane/filter and these shades with no memories are the source of the warforged's intelligence. The creation forges skim off the top of this membrane and put these memoryless shades into fresh shells. What this means for your question is to have the guy playing the rogue make up a warforged character of his design. He died while fighting Sahuagin, so it sounds like you are adventuring to or in Xen'drik. While there, near one of the original forges, have some of his memories start to pop back in, similar to the Immancipated Spawn from Savage Species. The characters would get creeped out about their souls being recycled like that and seek out Cannith for answers. I play up the fact that Cannith doesn't know how the forges work, just that they do. The only one with any true knowledge of the forges are the giants of Xen'drik. Playing out the few levels of warforged and then have his rogue identity return to him in clumps will provide a dramatic look at the afterlife and what is being done to the restful souls of their dearly departed. Who is right/wrong about death and the afterlife? Cannith for recycling the souls for profit? Blood of Vol for their necromantic rites trying to extend their time on Eberron before they get banished from the plane of the living by the evil gods? These questions and more will keep your players tossing in their sleep dreading the day of their own deaths and what will become of them after they bite the big one.
Inadequate 12-05-04, 04:03 AM	Well if you want to get the right "we've just lost a friend mood" you should (as the dm) first of all get the right music (I assume that you listen to music when you game, if you do not, I would advise you to do it, it really creates a brilliant mood) Second of all, try to describe to the players, what has just happened. Nothing makes the character think more when you give them an "epilogue" to the terrible thing that has just happened. Example: "So as you finish the rough fighting you soon realise that the cleric wasn't able to do anything about Emilia, It's a tough thing loosing a good friend, another life wasted for the sake of bringing justice to this cruel world. A thick cloud of sadness rises above you, the guilt and regret will be hard to process, but you must battle on" In general I'm very much against telling PC's what they think, but in these situation I'm large enough to bend the rules a bit. Making this sort of epilogue also makes the dead player feel more important etc.