Hellboy [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Hellboy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Medesha
08-02-04, 10:23 PM I just saw this movie tonight and wow. Not only is it pretty fargin awesome, but it has some *great* Eberron-style stuff. Sort of Eberron-Cthuhlu, I guess. I know a certain faceless Nazi assassin who is making his way into my game!
Saurenda
08-02-04, 10:41 PM Your stealing clockwork Nazi? More power to ya, as a member of the Emerald Claw I think a character like that would be awesome.

He reminded me too much of voldo from SoulCaliber though, hmm.

Ah well. Seems like a good notion.
ruleslawyer
08-02-04, 10:43 PM A clockwork Warforged, perhaps?

Kroenen + Adamantine Body. Heh.
Saurenda
08-02-04, 10:46 PM Nah it takes away from the fun of calling him clock work Nazi, he has to be a sort of undead creature.

Human, lets say fighter since he had no magicd, maybe a little bit of rouge tossed in for all his great dodging and backstabbing.

Yes I can see him as a Fighter 2/ Rouge 3 to start with. Medesha you mind me giving a shot at constructing him? I'd call his sword blades short sword, or shall we call them longswords?
Medesha
08-02-04, 11:28 PM Not at all! Just be forewarned that I probably won't use your version because I am a control freak. ;) I may make up my own and we'll see how they compare! I am interested in seeing what you come up with.
Saurenda
08-03-04, 02:20 PM I'm gonna work on it on the plane ride down to new mexico tomorrow. I should be able to post it within a few days =D

So I'm glad your making your own.
JohnnyONeal
08-03-04, 03:05 PM When Hellboy first came out and people compared it to Eberron, I thought of it as wishful thinking, but there are definitely similarities. Hellboy is a very "pulp" movie, with plenty of monster fighting and dungeon crawling. The Cthulu influences are also evident in both. I can definitely see a good-hearted demon inquisitive, a merfolk psion, and a fire-themed sorceress (or pyrokinetic wilder) making a good Eberron party.

If you liked the movie and haven't read the comics, I encourage you to check them out. Some things are different, but the spirit is very much the same.
Lasrifriir
08-03-04, 06:07 PM Originally posted by Saurenda
Nah it takes away from the fun of calling him clock work Nazi, he has to be a sort of undead creature.

Human, lets say fighter since he had no magicd, maybe a little bit of rouge tossed in for all his great dodging and backstabbing.

Yes I can see him as a Fighter 2/ Rouge 3 to start with. Medesha you mind me giving a shot at constructing him? I'd call his sword blades short sword, or shall we call them longswords?

Kroenen is indeed hard to stat out, his comic background according to the movie website is:

Kroenen
A practicing occultist long before World War II, the young Kroenen studied the black arts with the modern wizards Crowley and Gurdjieff. He specialized in the Oeft-handedOpeth of torture and pain. With his taste for perversion, it ws easy for him to devote his life to Nazism, particularly in its most arcane and superstitious form. In the end, after the failure of the Reich, he chooses to give up his soul and accept the inferno as his master.

He was human to begin with, and then kept himself alive beyond his lifespan 'through force of sheer will'. Whether that warrants a new undead template or not, I'm not sure. It's certainly something that I'll look forward to statting out.

For classes I would go with almost straight fighter, then with rogue like Saurenda suggested. I was about to recommend monk (he did use a form of Armed Arrow Deflection on bullets a few tmes) until I remembered how he had that pseudo-golden armor on in the modern day. The 'sword-batons' that he uses would just be a variant short sword, IMO.

Overall a very interesting character, he'll act perfectly as the bodyguard of a rakshasa sorcerer that I am using in my campaign.
JohnnyONeal
08-03-04, 07:51 PM I'd call Kroenen a monk. His body is metal, but I see that less as "armor" than as a manifestation of contempt for his own weak flesh. His skills definitely have the "flurry of blows" feel, and he's an obvious choice for Flensing Strike.

It really depends on what you're trying to do.

If you really want to find the perfect fit for Kroenen, I have a hard time imagining him without using the d20 Modern ruelset. I'd make him a heavily cyborged character, but make his "cybernetics" clockwork rather than electronic. He'd be a Fast hero with Martial Artist levels and a bunch of skill ranks in occult knowledge.

If you want a character inspired by Kroenen that fits in the world of Eberron, make him a mithral-laced warforged monk and create a backstory about how he's a one-of-a-kind example of a human transferring his intelligence into an artificial body.
Teslacoil1138
08-03-04, 08:44 PM Why would it have to be a human transferring his intelligence to a machine? Warforged are already intelligent. The Eberron-Kroenen could just have easily developed his martial skills on his own (building upon those he was already "made" with), no need for a brain transplant ;)
The_Epic_Paladin
08-03-04, 08:56 PM Actually Hellboy was in mind when Eberron was made. Not just the movie but the comic book too. In truth the person who drew the Hellboy comics also did some of the art work for the ECS. Just look at page 9 & 28 they are full page art that are signed KW, the artist of Hellboy. Just a little tid bit of information for you.
Brianish
08-03-04, 09:34 PM Originally posted by Saurenda

He reminded me too much of voldo from SoulCaliber though, hmm.

Yeah, too bad Hellboy predates Soul Caliber, huh?
stone_dog
08-03-04, 09:40 PM Originally posted by The_Epic_Paladin
look at page 9 & 28 they are full page art that are signed KW, the artist of Hellboy. The artist and creator of Hellboy is Mike Mignola. The art in the book looks like his, but it isn't. Still, imitation being the best form of flattery and all that.

Hellboy does have some great critters in it though and any one of them would be fine to slide into an Eberron game. Drums of the Dead and Almost Collosus spring to mind right away.
JohnnyONeal
08-03-04, 10:22 PM Yeah, the artist of Hellboy is Mike Mignola. KW's work was clearly referencing Mignola, but it wasn't quite the same. Kev's an excellent artist (http://www.cadona.com/~liu/magic/cards/artists/kev_walker.html) in his own right, though. He has even done his own comic book work (http://www.theartistschoice.com/kwalker.htm).

Why would it have to be a human transferring his intelligence to a machine? Warforged are already intelligent. The Eberron-Kroenen could just have easily developed his martial skills on his own (building upon those he was already "made" with), no need for a brain transplant.Good point. Part of Kroenen's character is that he was into self-mutilation, which is what led to him replacing parts of his body. That's hard to pull into a world that doesn't have cyborgs, which is why I mentioned the idea of transferring his conciousness into a warforged. But that could certainly be dropped for the Kroenen-inspired character.
Kesh
08-04-04, 12:51 AM Take a look at the Dragonstar d20 setting. They have a race called Soulmechs, which are essentially robots made so that a person can transfer their soul into the mechanical body using a trap the soul spell.

I could picture someone commissioning a warforged body, then transferring their soul into it. :)
Phist
08-04-04, 11:49 AM But the problem is that he isn't mechanical for the most part. I might even call him an evil deathless. I know deathless are always good, but other then that, the template seems to fit him quite well. And Eberron's alignment system is quite flexible. I might also make him some sort of half-golem. Half-mithril perhaps. As for class levels, I'd say Monk/Assassin

Kroenen
Human Half-mithril golem (Deathless)
Class levels: Monk 13/Assassin 7
Attack: Masterwork Wrist sythes 1d6 piercing or slashing. Count as monk weapon.
Alignement: LE
Save_vs_DM
08-05-04, 07:18 AM Okay, I gotta chime in on this one. Plus, you really need two versions of Kronen, comic book and movie.

I like the half golem idea, but I was gonna use a deathtouched (half-undead from Dragon Magazine 313, I think).

Comic Book Version:
Expert 4/Artificer 6 (Kronen was much less a fighter in the comic book. He was the one who made the portal, the hand, and all the other gimicks. He was an artificer for sure).

Movie Version:
Artificer 4/Ftr 4-5: I was slightly dissapointed they didn't include more of his role of a creator, though his role as a fighter was quite cool!

Cheers,
Save-vs-DM

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Medesha 08-02-04, 10:23 PM	I just saw this movie tonight and wow. Not only is it pretty fargin awesome, but it has some great Eberron-style stuff. Sort of Eberron-Cthuhlu, I guess. I know a certain faceless Nazi assassin who is making his way into my game!
Saurenda 08-02-04, 10:41 PM	Your stealing clockwork Nazi? More power to ya, as a member of the Emerald Claw I think a character like that would be awesome. He reminded me too much of voldo from SoulCaliber though, hmm. Ah well. Seems like a good notion.
ruleslawyer 08-02-04, 10:43 PM	A clockwork Warforged, perhaps? Kroenen + Adamantine Body. Heh.
Saurenda 08-02-04, 10:46 PM	Nah it takes away from the fun of calling him clock work Nazi, he has to be a sort of undead creature. Human, lets say fighter since he had no magicd, maybe a little bit of rouge tossed in for all his great dodging and backstabbing. Yes I can see him as a Fighter 2/ Rouge 3 to start with. Medesha you mind me giving a shot at constructing him? I'd call his sword blades short sword, or shall we call them longswords?
Medesha 08-02-04, 11:28 PM	Not at all! Just be forewarned that I probably won't use your version because I am a control freak. ;) I may make up my own and we'll see how they compare! I am interested in seeing what you come up with.
Saurenda 08-03-04, 02:20 PM	I'm gonna work on it on the plane ride down to new mexico tomorrow. I should be able to post it within a few days =D So I'm glad your making your own.
JohnnyONeal 08-03-04, 03:05 PM	When Hellboy first came out and people compared it to Eberron, I thought of it as wishful thinking, but there are definitely similarities. Hellboy is a very "pulp" movie, with plenty of monster fighting and dungeon crawling. The Cthulu influences are also evident in both. I can definitely see a good-hearted demon inquisitive, a merfolk psion, and a fire-themed sorceress (or pyrokinetic wilder) making a good Eberron party. If you liked the movie and haven't read the comics, I encourage you to check them out. Some things are different, but the spirit is very much the same.
Lasrifriir 08-03-04, 06:07 PM	Originally posted by Saurenda Nah it takes away from the fun of calling him clock work Nazi, he has to be a sort of undead creature. Human, lets say fighter since he had no magicd, maybe a little bit of rouge tossed in for all his great dodging and backstabbing. Yes I can see him as a Fighter 2/ Rouge 3 to start with. Medesha you mind me giving a shot at constructing him? I'd call his sword blades short sword, or shall we call them longswords? Kroenen is indeed hard to stat out, his comic background according to the movie website is: Kroenen A practicing occultist long before World War II, the young Kroenen studied the black arts with the modern wizards Crowley and Gurdjieff. He specialized in the Oeft-handedOpeth of torture and pain. With his taste for perversion, it ws easy for him to devote his life to Nazism, particularly in its most arcane and superstitious form. In the end, after the failure of the Reich, he chooses to give up his soul and accept the inferno as his master. He was human to begin with, and then kept himself alive beyond his lifespan 'through force of sheer will'. Whether that warrants a new undead template or not, I'm not sure. It's certainly something that I'll look forward to statting out. For classes I would go with almost straight fighter, then with rogue like Saurenda suggested. I was about to recommend monk (he did use a form of Armed Arrow Deflection on bullets a few tmes) until I remembered how he had that pseudo-golden armor on in the modern day. The 'sword-batons' that he uses would just be a variant short sword, IMO. Overall a very interesting character, he'll act perfectly as the bodyguard of a rakshasa sorcerer that I am using in my campaign.
JohnnyONeal 08-03-04, 07:51 PM	I'd call Kroenen a monk. His body is metal, but I see that less as "armor" than as a manifestation of contempt for his own weak flesh. His skills definitely have the "flurry of blows" feel, and he's an obvious choice for Flensing Strike. It really depends on what you're trying to do. If you really want to find the perfect fit for Kroenen, I have a hard time imagining him without using the d20 Modern ruelset. I'd make him a heavily cyborged character, but make his "cybernetics" clockwork rather than electronic. He'd be a Fast hero with Martial Artist levels and a bunch of skill ranks in occult knowledge. If you want a character inspired by Kroenen that fits in the world of Eberron, make him a mithral-laced warforged monk and create a backstory about how he's a one-of-a-kind example of a human transferring his intelligence into an artificial body.
Teslacoil1138 08-03-04, 08:44 PM	Why would it have to be a human transferring his intelligence to a machine? Warforged are already intelligent. The Eberron-Kroenen could just have easily developed his martial skills on his own (building upon those he was already "made" with), no need for a brain transplant ;)
The_Epic_Paladin 08-03-04, 08:56 PM	Actually Hellboy was in mind when Eberron was made. Not just the movie but the comic book too. In truth the person who drew the Hellboy comics also did some of the art work for the ECS. Just look at page 9 & 28 they are full page art that are signed KW, the artist of Hellboy. Just a little tid bit of information for you.
Brianish 08-03-04, 09:34 PM	Originally posted by Saurenda He reminded me too much of voldo from SoulCaliber though, hmm. Yeah, too bad Hellboy predates Soul Caliber, huh?
stone_dog 08-03-04, 09:40 PM	Originally posted by The_Epic_Paladin look at page 9 & 28 they are full page art that are signed KW, the artist of Hellboy. The artist and creator of Hellboy is Mike Mignola. The art in the book looks like his, but it isn't. Still, imitation being the best form of flattery and all that. Hellboy does have some great critters in it though and any one of them would be fine to slide into an Eberron game. Drums of the Dead and Almost Collosus spring to mind right away.
JohnnyONeal 08-03-04, 10:22 PM	Yeah, the artist of Hellboy is Mike Mignola. KW's work was clearly referencing Mignola, but it wasn't quite the same. Kev's an excellent artist (http://www.cadona.com/~liu/magic/cards/artists/kev_walker.html) in his own right, though. He has even done his own comic book work (http://www.theartistschoice.com/kwalker.htm). Why would it have to be a human transferring his intelligence to a machine? Warforged are already intelligent. The Eberron-Kroenen could just have easily developed his martial skills on his own (building upon those he was already "made" with), no need for a brain transplant.Good point. Part of Kroenen's character is that he was into self-mutilation, which is what led to him replacing parts of his body. That's hard to pull into a world that doesn't have cyborgs, which is why I mentioned the idea of transferring his conciousness into a warforged. But that could certainly be dropped for the Kroenen-inspired character.
Kesh 08-04-04, 12:51 AM	Take a look at the Dragonstar d20 setting. They have a race called Soulmechs, which are essentially robots made so that a person can transfer their soul into the mechanical body using a trap the soul spell. I could picture someone commissioning a warforged body, then transferring their soul into it. :)
Phist 08-04-04, 11:49 AM	But the problem is that he isn't mechanical for the most part. I might even call him an evil deathless. I know deathless are always good, but other then that, the template seems to fit him quite well. And Eberron's alignment system is quite flexible. I might also make him some sort of half-golem. Half-mithril perhaps. As for class levels, I'd say Monk/Assassin Kroenen Human Half-mithril golem (Deathless) Class levels: Monk 13/Assassin 7 Attack: Masterwork Wrist sythes 1d6 piercing or slashing. Count as monk weapon. Alignement: LE
Save_vs_DM 08-05-04, 07:18 AM	Okay, I gotta chime in on this one. Plus, you really need two versions of Kronen, comic book and movie. I like the half golem idea, but I was gonna use a deathtouched (half-undead from Dragon Magazine 313, I think). Comic Book Version: Expert 4/Artificer 6 (Kronen was much less a fighter in the comic book. He was the one who made the portal, the hand, and all the other gimicks. He was an artificer for sure). Movie Version: Artificer 4/Ftr 4-5: I was slightly dissapointed they didn't include more of his role of a creator, though his role as a fighter was quite cool! Cheers, Save-vs-DM