Help me DM Eberron please. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help me DM Eberron please. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Valuum
08-20-06, 12:32 AM Hi, I've been playing D&D for 5 or so years now, on and off. I started in 5th grade, and I'm now entering 11th. Until now I haven't DM'd that many good parties, mostly the "I attack, I attack, I attack" bunch.

Well my friends saw my old D&D books the other month and wanted me to make an adventure for them (They had all played the D&D games for xbox and PC so they had an interest in it). Well it took me a while to get everything together and reread the rules, but I made kind of a joke adventure that was really humor based, but everyone loved it and we had a great time. So I bought the Eberron Setting source-book.

My player roster is like this:

W - Really smart player, he always makes really strong characters and makes good choices. Currently a two-weaponing swashbuckler. He read the players handbook so he knows quite a bit about what he as a player should do.

P - Usually plays what he thinks will be interesting, he knows D&D a bit from player Neverwinter Nights.

T - Kinda young, likes to play along as his character (he always plays a half orc barbarian).

J - Doesn't understand the game that well so everyone helps him out. Still gets involved with it though.

And another guy that only played once.

Ok, so I decided to start with "The Forgotten Forge", since I didn't have time to make an adventure that would introduce the party to Eberron. Currently I'm having some problems with it.

I'm finding the adventure to be really unbalanced, the first fight was easy, but the fight with the AC 20 rats (I believe it was) was very difficult and I had to cheat for the PC's a bit. Which leads into my next problem, HP recovery. One player does know Cure Light Wounds, but can only cast it once per day. How am I supposed to have the PC's healed? I've been looking through source-books trying to find a practical way. It seems like clerics would charge for the service or something. I don't think it makes sense for the players to rest for days on end, then progress through the story like nothing happened.

My other problem seems more to be with the adventure than my skills/Eberron. I find the Forgotten Forge to be a little bit "On Rails", as the characters are forced around the adventure, and don't have much choice. For example the adventure provides a hook for going into the sewers (not even a read hook, it's in the normal black text). The story then rushes the players to the Valve, and then provides text saying that the players just couldn't find the valve, to chance of finding it at all.

Once in the ruins I was confuses about why it was pitch black. Thankfully one PC had rope to lower themselves down, but I had no idea how to DM a situation where the players were in complete darkness. I let them pick a direction and eventually they made an ok map and finally figured out where to go.

Any advice?
Valuum
08-20-06, 02:50 AM Also, I'm DMing again tommorow night. Is the follow up to TFF any better?
RellenMarn
08-20-06, 04:02 AM I would suggest having your characters trip over a torch or lantern, a quick search could provide a flint, etc. The adventure taking place far underground in an essentially abandoned area darkness does seem pretty appropriate and adventuring underground without a light source seems pretty odd. As for healing the temple area has a font with three doses of cure light wounds in it and you can always up this dosage if you feel it is neccesary. There are also plenty of ways to get around the rats ac, flank them, zap them, use any buff powers if you have a bard or a cleric. All you need is a magic missile or two, and some lucky dice rolls - do not forget action points these will enable your players to add an extra d6 to their to hit rolls. They should be only moderately challenging for the party. If anything this ought to teach them one of the first rules of low level adventuring - always bring a torch! Hope that helps, I think the adventure is "on rails" as a nice easy introduction for new players, etc.
Korhal_IV
08-20-06, 04:30 AM Only cast Cure Light Wounds once per day? If you had a cleric or bard, they could spontaneously convert any spell into a Cure spell. If you had a druid, well, they'll learn better spell selection as they go! :P

Characters naturally heal 1 HP/level per night of bed rest, 2 HP/level with good care (DC 15 heal check), and 3 HP/level under conditions that I forget. At low levels, this shouldn't take too long to patch them up, particularly if Cure spells are invoked.

You could try looking in the ECS under House Jorasco to see how much a House Jorasco heir will charge to use Cure Light Wounds. Your players could also see about investing their rewards into Cure potions (which House Jorasco also sells).

If House Jorasco is too expensive and your PCs have no alternate sources of healing, and you still think "days of bed rest" is too much, just double the rate of natural healing, or otherwise fiddle with it. Perhaps a night of bed rest cures 2 HP/level, and good medical care advances that to 4 HP/level, etc.

As for the total darkness, as RellenMarn mentioned, everyone should have a torch! :D They'll bring one next time. Adjudicating combat in darkness is pretty easy (everyone who can't see gives full concealment to all his foes, or 50% miss chance with every attack), but it makes fights long and complicated.

All adventure modules are a little railroady - it's just the nature of the beast. A game designer can't plan everything! I suggest you make sure you're familiar with the module, that way if your players surprise you by going offroad, you can improvise to make it interesting anyway. :)

I highly recommend the whole Eberron adventure path - it gives you a good sense of the setting, they're fun to play through, and you can use the time to whip up your own campaign. :) The issues with the modules are also well-known, so you can post here and get answers to your questions. Did you finish all of The Forgotten Forge already?
DoveArrow
08-20-06, 01:12 PM I'm finding the adventure to be really unbalanced, the first fight was easy, but the fight with the AC 20 rats (I believe it was) was very difficult and I had to cheat for the PC's a bit.

Keep in mind, that a lot of the abilities that the PCs have don't necessarily rely on whether or not they can hit a high AC. For example, magic missile, which is a 1st level spell, hits unerringly and does 1d4+1 points of damage. Burning hands is another good 1st level spell, and since the horrid rat only has a Reflex save of DC 5, your players are more than likely going to do their full damage every time.

For fighters, you might suggest that they pick up some splash weapons. These require only a ranged touch attack, which makes the horrid rat a lot easier to hit (AC 14 touch). You might also want to remind your players about their action points, since this is something that a lot of new players forget about. One of the things that our group does is ask each player, on their turn, whether or not they want to use an action point. It may get a little annoying at times, but it does help remind them of a resource that they may not be used to.

Which leads into my next problem, HP recovery. One player does know Cure Light Wounds, but can only cast it once per day. How am I supposed to have the PC's healed? I've been looking through source-books trying to find a practical way. It seems like clerics would charge for the service or something.

Prices for spellcasting services are listed on page 129 of the Player's Handbook. The prices for House Jorasco's dragonmarked services are listed on page 121 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Now your player that can only cast one cure spell per day, what class is he playing? If he's playing a cleric, remind him that he can spontaneously swap out any of his loaded spells for cure spells. If he's playing a druid, you might want to suggest that he take the Spontaneous Healer feat that's listed on page 84 of the Complete Divine. Regardless of what class he is, you might want to suggest that he purchase some scrolls of cure light wounds, or see if the party would pitch in for a wand of cure light wounds. Also, check to see what your player's Wisdom score is. From the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like he's aware that he gets bonus spells for a high Wisdom score.

Now as the DM, there are things you can do as well. For example, you might place potions or scrolls of cure light wounds in the adventure as treasure. You've already made it a good deal of the way through the module, from the sounds of it, but if you haven't made it to the Vault at the end of the module yet, it's as good a place as any to put some potions of cure light wounds. Meanwhile, Skakan, the goblin merchant in the Rat's Market, might have found a used wand that he's willing to sell to the PCs (for a price).

Once in the ruins I was confused about why it was pitch black.

Because it's dark in them thar ruins! ;) Seriously, though, players who do not have a light source, and who do not have darkvision are effectively blinded in areas that are pitch black. For more information about vision and light, see pages 164-165 of the Player's Handbook, or just click here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm).

Conclusion

It sounds like a lot of your problems are stemming from a lack of familiarity with the rules. That's not a bad thing, mind you. From the sounds of it, you're all experienced players who have been out of the game for a while, and you're all just a little rusty. Give it time, and soon, you'll all be chastising one another for trying to make a Search check as part of a standard action. :P Meanwhile, keep in mind that the glossary in the back of the Dungeon Master's Guide is your best friend. If you can't find the answer you need in there, make one up, and look it up later. It's also a good idea to go over your adventures beforehand and see if you can figure out how to rule on certain encounters ahead of time. Good luck with your game! :)
Korhal_IV
08-20-06, 02:35 PM Prices for spellcasting services are listed on page 129 of the Player's Handbook. The prices for House Jorasco's dragonmarked services are listed on page 121 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.
Wouldn't that be the DMG, not the PHB?
Valuum
08-20-06, 03:01 PM Thanks for all the advice, I read it all. I'll post again later with how well the next session went. Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valuum 08-20-06, 12:32 AM	Hi, I've been playing D&D for 5 or so years now, on and off. I started in 5th grade, and I'm now entering 11th. Until now I haven't DM'd that many good parties, mostly the "I attack, I attack, I attack" bunch. Well my friends saw my old D&D books the other month and wanted me to make an adventure for them (They had all played the D&D games for xbox and PC so they had an interest in it). Well it took me a while to get everything together and reread the rules, but I made kind of a joke adventure that was really humor based, but everyone loved it and we had a great time. So I bought the Eberron Setting source-book. My player roster is like this: W - Really smart player, he always makes really strong characters and makes good choices. Currently a two-weaponing swashbuckler. He read the players handbook so he knows quite a bit about what he as a player should do. P - Usually plays what he thinks will be interesting, he knows D&D a bit from player Neverwinter Nights. T - Kinda young, likes to play along as his character (he always plays a half orc barbarian). J - Doesn't understand the game that well so everyone helps him out. Still gets involved with it though. And another guy that only played once. Ok, so I decided to start with "The Forgotten Forge", since I didn't have time to make an adventure that would introduce the party to Eberron. Currently I'm having some problems with it. I'm finding the adventure to be really unbalanced, the first fight was easy, but the fight with the AC 20 rats (I believe it was) was very difficult and I had to cheat for the PC's a bit. Which leads into my next problem, HP recovery. One player does know Cure Light Wounds, but can only cast it once per day. How am I supposed to have the PC's healed? I've been looking through source-books trying to find a practical way. It seems like clerics would charge for the service or something. I don't think it makes sense for the players to rest for days on end, then progress through the story like nothing happened. My other problem seems more to be with the adventure than my skills/Eberron. I find the Forgotten Forge to be a little bit "On Rails", as the characters are forced around the adventure, and don't have much choice. For example the adventure provides a hook for going into the sewers (not even a read hook, it's in the normal black text). The story then rushes the players to the Valve, and then provides text saying that the players just couldn't find the valve, to chance of finding it at all. Once in the ruins I was confuses about why it was pitch black. Thankfully one PC had rope to lower themselves down, but I had no idea how to DM a situation where the players were in complete darkness. I let them pick a direction and eventually they made an ok map and finally figured out where to go. Any advice?
Valuum 08-20-06, 02:50 AM	Also, I'm DMing again tommorow night. Is the follow up to TFF any better?
RellenMarn 08-20-06, 04:02 AM	I would suggest having your characters trip over a torch or lantern, a quick search could provide a flint, etc. The adventure taking place far underground in an essentially abandoned area darkness does seem pretty appropriate and adventuring underground without a light source seems pretty odd. As for healing the temple area has a font with three doses of cure light wounds in it and you can always up this dosage if you feel it is neccesary. There are also plenty of ways to get around the rats ac, flank them, zap them, use any buff powers if you have a bard or a cleric. All you need is a magic missile or two, and some lucky dice rolls - do not forget action points these will enable your players to add an extra d6 to their to hit rolls. They should be only moderately challenging for the party. If anything this ought to teach them one of the first rules of low level adventuring - always bring a torch! Hope that helps, I think the adventure is "on rails" as a nice easy introduction for new players, etc.
Korhal_IV 08-20-06, 04:30 AM	Only cast Cure Light Wounds once per day? If you had a cleric or bard, they could spontaneously convert any spell into a Cure spell. If you had a druid, well, they'll learn better spell selection as they go! :P Characters naturally heal 1 HP/level per night of bed rest, 2 HP/level with good care (DC 15 heal check), and 3 HP/level under conditions that I forget. At low levels, this shouldn't take too long to patch them up, particularly if Cure spells are invoked. You could try looking in the ECS under House Jorasco to see how much a House Jorasco heir will charge to use Cure Light Wounds. Your players could also see about investing their rewards into Cure potions (which House Jorasco also sells). If House Jorasco is too expensive and your PCs have no alternate sources of healing, and you still think "days of bed rest" is too much, just double the rate of natural healing, or otherwise fiddle with it. Perhaps a night of bed rest cures 2 HP/level, and good medical care advances that to 4 HP/level, etc. As for the total darkness, as RellenMarn mentioned, everyone should have a torch! :D They'll bring one next time. Adjudicating combat in darkness is pretty easy (everyone who can't see gives full concealment to all his foes, or 50% miss chance with every attack), but it makes fights long and complicated. All adventure modules are a little railroady - it's just the nature of the beast. A game designer can't plan everything! I suggest you make sure you're familiar with the module, that way if your players surprise you by going offroad, you can improvise to make it interesting anyway. :) I highly recommend the whole Eberron adventure path - it gives you a good sense of the setting, they're fun to play through, and you can use the time to whip up your own campaign. :) The issues with the modules are also well-known, so you can post here and get answers to your questions. Did you finish all of The Forgotten Forge already?
DoveArrow 08-20-06, 01:12 PM	I'm finding the adventure to be really unbalanced, the first fight was easy, but the fight with the AC 20 rats (I believe it was) was very difficult and I had to cheat for the PC's a bit. Keep in mind, that a lot of the abilities that the PCs have don't necessarily rely on whether or not they can hit a high AC. For example, magic missile, which is a 1st level spell, hits unerringly and does 1d4+1 points of damage. Burning hands is another good 1st level spell, and since the horrid rat only has a Reflex save of DC 5, your players are more than likely going to do their full damage every time. For fighters, you might suggest that they pick up some splash weapons. These require only a ranged touch attack, which makes the horrid rat a lot easier to hit (AC 14 touch). You might also want to remind your players about their action points, since this is something that a lot of new players forget about. One of the things that our group does is ask each player, on their turn, whether or not they want to use an action point. It may get a little annoying at times, but it does help remind them of a resource that they may not be used to. Which leads into my next problem, HP recovery. One player does know Cure Light Wounds, but can only cast it once per day. How am I supposed to have the PC's healed? I've been looking through source-books trying to find a practical way. It seems like clerics would charge for the service or something. Prices for spellcasting services are listed on page 129 of the Player's Handbook. The prices for House Jorasco's dragonmarked services are listed on page 121 of the Eberron Campaign Setting. Now your player that can only cast one cure spell per day, what class is he playing? If he's playing a cleric, remind him that he can spontaneously swap out any of his loaded spells for cure spells. If he's playing a druid, you might want to suggest that he take the Spontaneous Healer feat that's listed on page 84 of the Complete Divine. Regardless of what class he is, you might want to suggest that he purchase some scrolls of cure light wounds, or see if the party would pitch in for a wand of cure light wounds. Also, check to see what your player's Wisdom score is. From the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like he's aware that he gets bonus spells for a high Wisdom score. Now as the DM, there are things you can do as well. For example, you might place potions or scrolls of cure light wounds in the adventure as treasure. You've already made it a good deal of the way through the module, from the sounds of it, but if you haven't made it to the Vault at the end of the module yet, it's as good a place as any to put some potions of cure light wounds. Meanwhile, Skakan, the goblin merchant in the Rat's Market, might have found a used wand that he's willing to sell to the PCs (for a price). Once in the ruins I was confused about why it was pitch black. Because it's dark in them thar ruins! ;) Seriously, though, players who do not have a light source, and who do not have darkvision are effectively blinded in areas that are pitch black. For more information about vision and light, see pages 164-165 of the Player's Handbook, or just click here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm). Conclusion It sounds like a lot of your problems are stemming from a lack of familiarity with the rules. That's not a bad thing, mind you. From the sounds of it, you're all experienced players who have been out of the game for a while, and you're all just a little rusty. Give it time, and soon, you'll all be chastising one another for trying to make a Search check as part of a standard action. :P Meanwhile, keep in mind that the glossary in the back of the Dungeon Master's Guide is your best friend. If you can't find the answer you need in there, make one up, and look it up later. It's also a good idea to go over your adventures beforehand and see if you can figure out how to rule on certain encounters ahead of time. Good luck with your game! :)
Korhal_IV 08-20-06, 02:35 PM	Prices for spellcasting services are listed on page 129 of the Player's Handbook. The prices for House Jorasco's dragonmarked services are listed on page 121 of the Eberron Campaign Setting. Wouldn't that be the DMG, not the PHB?
Valuum 08-20-06, 03:01 PM	Thanks for all the advice, I read it all. I'll post again later with how well the next session went. Thanks again.