Post/Author/DateTime	Post
james bierly 11-11-04, 05:56 PM	Ever seen the show "Smallville"? In this show there is a villain, Lional Luther, who has done a lot of bad ****. He's also a prominant member of the community and the CEO of a huge, multi-national corporation. He has his own agendas, which often conflict with the heroes, but sometimes he can be beneficial, and end up working toward common goals with them. But in the end he is still a villain. Anyhow, I love this dynamic, and I think a villain of this sort. (I'm thinking Baron Merix d'Cannith would work excellently.) But I'm having trouble working out how to run this in game. How do I establish he's bad? How do I then establish that he should not be killed outright? How do I make his relationship with the players love/hate? How should I develop his story? Anyone run a villain like this in their games? Thanks in advance, as always, for your input...
Zagumus 11-11-04, 06:53 PM	I will give it a try... How do I establish he's bad? Do things with out care for others, he thinks of himslef as above the law. How do I then establish that he should not be killed outright? Make him the CEO of a large company in Sharn that would fall if something happend to him and 100's of inocent people would be hurt. How do I make his relationship with the players love/hate? He gives they big payoffs for easy jobs, in hopes that they will leave him alone and go after the bigger evil How should I develop his story? i don't kow Anyone run a villain like this in their games? no but i like the idea. Thanks in advance, as always, for your input... your welcome, thanks in advance for your input about my input :D
MarkB 11-11-04, 07:02 PM	Ever seen the show "Smallville"? In this show there is a villain, Lional Luther, who has done a lot of bad ****. He's also a prominant member of the community and the CEO of a huge, multi-national corporation. He has his own agendas, which often conflict with the heroes, but sometimes he can be beneficial, and end up working toward common goals with them. But in the end he is still a villain. Anyhow, I love this dynamic, and I think a villain of this sort. (I'm thinking Baron Merix d'Cannith would work excellently.) But I'm having trouble working out how to run this in game. Nice idea if you can pull it off - Lionel Luthor is an excellent villain character template. How do I establish he's bad? Look at some of the ways the show established he was bad - for example, the Kents saved the life of his son, and in return he faked Clark's adoption records, no strings attached. Then, when it suited his purposes, he blackmailed them with the threat of exposing the faked documents and having Clark's adoption papers revoked. How do I then establish that he should not be killed outright? This is the tricky one, alright. Players often hate an untouchable villain, especially if he's a plot device. If they can find a way to take him out - whether depose him or kill him outright - they will. A few possible solutions include ensuring that his personal power - in terms of class and level - matches his organisational position, and that both put him very obviously out of the players' direct reach (and make sure you advance him along with the players). Alternatively, he might obtain blackmail information on the players at an early date, and maintain a fresh supply as they progress, though this is liable to annoy players if done to excess. How do I make his relationship with the players love/hate? One possibility: Make him family. The most interesting relationship in Smallville doesn't touch Clark - it's the relationship between Lex and Lionel Luthor that provides the best tension and drama. You could have one of the PCs be a House Cannith Heir, descended directly from Merrix (father and son, preferably), and with some moral qualms about patricide. With D&D's treasure system, it'll be hard to produce the same degree of financial dependence that Lex has with Lionel, but if you encourage the player to invest heavily in the Dragonmark Heir prestige class, his influence will wax and wane with how favourably his father looks upon him. On a wider scale, make him a patron of the party. He supports them, helps them in his own particular way, but he has a very specific vision of where he wants them to go, morally speaking, which isn't one a good-aligned party would relish, so they find themselves alternating between benefitting from his good will and excellent intelligence information, and bouncing against the restrictions he places in their way in an attempt to mould them. How should I develop his story? This is one place to follow your players' lead as far as possible. Give them an idea of the sort of person he is, and then see how they respond to his actions. If they hook onto the idea of maintaining this difficult working relationship, let it progress, and allow them victories against his schemes on some occasions, but not all. If, on the other hand, they perceive a way to escape his influence, go with that and slip him gradually into full-time villain mode, or if they perhaps try to redeem him and make him mend his ways, you could see where that leads you - ex-villains make the most interesting heroes. Either way, build some grand plan for him, some goal that he is working towards that the players will get no more than hints at until late into his schemes. I hope some of that helps, and good luck with it - you've got a great concept!
james bierly 11-11-04, 08:00 PM	Thanks! Making the big bad family will probably not work... we only have one Dragonmarked individual, and he's from Deneith. Deneith doesn't have the kind of economic or organizational clout that Cannith has. The leader of a dragonmarked house composed of overglorified mercenaries just doesn't seem to fit what I'm going for... One player wants to have an abberant Dragonmark... maybe we could say Merrix fathered him secretely... I mainly wanted to go with Merrix because we've already played The Forgotten Forge, and the players have already developed a love/hate relationship with Elaydren. For the grand plot, I'll be using whatever I decide the completed pieces of the schema does. Thanks again for the input! Any more ideas?
Splendide 11-11-04, 09:33 PM	Money is more important than people. Poor safety in the workplace, bad wages coupled with evilly high-interest loans to employees, dumping effluent into important waterways....all the usual stuff that an industrialist can do to <swearword> people off. As for dragonmarks...I think it would be better if he was not representing a dragonmarked house, but his own venture. All of these shortcuts he uses are measures that he sees as essential if he is going to compete with the dragonmarked houses...which is obviously an excellent villainous justification to do almost anything. He's just trying to provide an affordable alternative and make a living - whats wrong with that? Like a lot of self-made businessmen in cut-throat industry, he will have faced challenges to his operations before, and will no doubt have certain connections capable of dealing with people that make things complicated. Various rumours of disappearing agitators are good here. Specific things you can do to show his nature: former employees with one or more limbs crushed limbs after the earth elemental got loose, overworked employees up to their necks in debt to their employers, children that work with fiddly and dangerous machinery....all that stuff. Of course, this requires that the party be moral. If not, then yeah, he's not likely to mess with them....unless they've taken a job that inadventently involves messing with him. Hope this helps.
Ormazd 11-12-04, 11:34 AM	I ran an NPC in a campaign not too long ago who my PCs couldn't stand, but they always turned to him when they needed info. He was a low-life theives' guild wannabe who fell into a drug-smuggling position and suddenly was rolling in dough. He was smarmy and self-important and a bda-guy to boot, so the PCs were naturally inclined to dislike him. I initially introduced him as just a sideline NPC who they dealt with only rarely. He would give them some information on the necromancer they were hunting down, etc. and all he would ask of the PCs is that they carry a small box to a bookseller in Silverymoon and NOT look inside. I was, at first, surprised that the PCs agreed to the deal, and there was some in-party discussion at the moment of truth about whether they should peek in the box, but utimately, they held up their end of the bargain and, later, dealt with the smuggler as necessary. I think the players actually enjoyed the conflict that arose from the "lesser of two evils" approach and didn't want to take the stupidly heroic path of "kill all that is not good." At the end of the day, the best way to keep the PCs from killing your NPC is simply by not putting them in a position to do so. The head of House Cannith is not stupid and isn't going to meet the PCs in the dark alley with no backup and no magical protection. Sure, they can take a swing at him, but then they have to deal with the bodyguards and resulting backlash (destruction of the offending PC's material goods, family, etc.). Don't be afraid to make the bad guy truly BAD. But, remember, you need someone out there (the present adventure seed) who's WORSE. Otherwise, your PCs won't deal with this guy. Then, give the bad guy things that the PCs truly want and need: not just treasure, but information, maps, rare magical items, influence to get PCs out of jail, travel arrangements, contacts, all the things you can't necessarily go buy in a store. Finally, work the NPC in slowly. Don't start with him as the focus of the campaign, but have him working in the background. The PCs might not even know immediately that he's shady. By the time they figure it out, they have had opportunities to see that he's not pure evil (maybe he has family that he loves and is devoted to, humanizing him somewhat) and, more importantly, that they need him. They'll let him live until it's dramatically appropriate to kill him. Hope that helps, O