Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quarion Silverfrond 02-07-07, 10:38 AM	Ok so I'm DMing Eberron. The party consists of a Catfolk Rouge/Fighter/Monk (he has monistic training), Elf Hexblade/Ocult Slayer, Human Fighter, Human Cleric (protection and death domains), Kalashtar Soulknife, Human Vampire Warmage/Mindbender, and the problum child, an Elf Werepanther Rouge. Now your probely thinking what the hell is wrong with this guy. Well the vampire progressed and the person running the catfolk and I worked it out so he wasn't to broken. Anyway the party was fine until the werepanther got a copy of Complete Scoundrel. I allowed for the tumble to tumble past an oppnent, that was no big deal. Then he got a Rod of Ropes, and thats when the $#!t hit the fan. Now I have him binding opponents to the ground by pikeing one end into the ground and lasoing them with the other. So know hes taking every single kill. I've solved the problum temperarly by having him play a temp character for a while while his normal guy is off "training" but thats only for a few sesions. To make a long story short (too late) I need help to balance this guy with the rest of the party, before i have people in the group ready to mutiny because he's pulling enimies away from them to kill himself. Help, please. Please excuse any misspellings.
UnderworldLord 02-07-07, 11:08 AM	I don't have that book, but I'm pretty sure he can do what i did when a Lasher visited my campaign. He tried to sneak ahead of the two ogres the party was fighting, and found the hill giant's lair. What happened afterwards was not something I planned, but worked really well. A similar example can be seen in the player who made a race specialized in grapples and used swallow whole and gape of the serpent. Things got too strong, or too tough for it to work. Or stuff started using daggers and cut their way out. Doesn't really balance the player so much as balance the field of play.
Alex_ 02-07-07, 11:30 AM	When you see the player again, and are not playing, tell them that you think they are overshadowing the others in combat and that you would like them to tone things down a bit in future sessions. You can let them use their favorite (and very effective) technique from time to time, but don't overdo it to the point where nobody else ever seems to be able to get a hit in or seem like they contributed to battle. If that doesn't work, tell the player that you're going to start designing challenges that limit the effectiveness of their power so the other players can have a chance to shine. Don't target and punish the player specifically, like making EVERY enemy resistant to their ability, or make every enemy attack them first. Offer more enemies that are more vulnerable to the other members of the party, and cannot be easily bound (undead, powerful arcanists, psionics, larger creatures, etc). If they can't handle this either, I would suggest you have them trade in the item for something else, create a new character, or sit the game out.
cancerousmango 02-07-07, 11:53 AM	Your problem is that you're playing with furries, and can't spell.
Logos7 02-07-07, 12:36 PM	Escape Artist and Str Checks anyone, regardless of how much the rod can pull it doesn't help if the ropes broken or not in around the creature. Also note that the Hooks description says creatures can only be pushes, Note the Rod's Description says that ANY KNOT, within 30 feet of the rod (On the Rod's rope) comes undone. Last time i checked laso's worked off knottage, this is what ii would call the coniently forgotten fact thats breaking the item. But still nifty item.
ChimericalWolf 02-07-07, 02:24 PM	Your problem is that you're playing with furries, and can't spell. Wow. Furry-bashing. Classy.
goblin_pride 02-07-07, 11:56 PM	Dude, R-O-G-U-E. I thought it seemed a bit odd asking for cosmetic advice on the Eberron boards.
UnderworldLord 02-08-07, 12:08 AM	Perhaps we're just more friendly? :D
RogueElement 02-08-07, 10:06 PM	Rogue. ROGUE. R-O-G-U-E!
Raziel_Brokodar 02-08-07, 10:17 PM	oy! my rouge was nuts once, I straightened it out though but good You're the DM dude, you rule the roost... bring the hammer down Dunno what to suggest beyond DM intervention, maybe have the Silver Flame come after him? :confused: Also that party sounds too messed up for words................ so, hell make their challenges that much harder. If they're all uber crazy and the rogue is the only one 'barely' breaking a sweat, they can handle harder challenges. They seem pretty melee combat heavy, they can take it
RogueElement 02-08-07, 10:21 PM	oy! my rouge was nuts once, I straightened it out though but goodRogueElement hate rouge! RogueElement smash! Grrrr! <tears dictionary in half> :D
Kaizer_Ryu 02-08-07, 10:24 PM	Geez, s/he apologized for spelling errors. No need to get snippy about it. As Alex_ said, discussing it with the player is usually the best route. It's a game, and games are supposed to be fun. If he is told flat-out that he's ruining the fun for everyone else, I'd expect it not to be a problem anymore. If it continues, do as has been suggested and design encounters that limit the ability's effectiveness.
RogueElement 02-08-07, 10:49 PM	Geez, s/he apologized for spelling errors. No need to get snippy about it. How many smiley faces do I need to put in my posts to make sure you know I'm kidding?:D :D :D :D :D :D
Kreistor2 02-08-07, 11:29 PM	Yeah, okay, while you all embarass yourselves by insulting the guy, how about the adults help the guy out? Alright, I don't have Complete Scoundrel yet. It sounds like this has something to do with a specific ability in the CS, but I'll do my best anyway. Not all rules WotC invents work. Some of them are just not well thought out. It is clear that you have already reached the conclusion that this Lasso is hurting your campaign. Step 1: Review the rules. Before making a final decision, get out the relevant rules. Re-read them in precise detail, and try to analyze them with a fresh eye. Is there a little detail that you overlooked? Is something supposed to Provoke that you haven't been? Is there some loophole you have been overlooking? Is the player maybe playing it incorrectly in some way? Step 2: Compare the ability in question to other rules. In this case, I'd compare the ability to Grapple, a baseline ability. Is this new ability grossly superior to Grapple? If not, then you're overreacting. If it is, then you've found an imbalance in the ability that WotC overlooked. Step 3: Talk to the player and discuss the problem with him/her. Let the player know that they have been dominating the game, and that it hasn't been fun for you or any of the other players. Everyone needs to shine at the table, or else only one person has fun. I've said this in the past: "Congratulations. I can't challenge your character. You won DnD. Time to retire the character and try a new one." You'd be surprised at the reactions you get to something like that. You're arguing from a point of pride and ego for the player, which is really hard for them to think around. I note you've already spoken to one player about a somewhat similar situation, so i don't think you'll have a problem with this. Ultimately, you need the new ability gotten rid of, or in a major way diminished. You'll note that at no point have I suggested killing off the character, which only comes across as malicious. Nor have I suggested colluding with the other players to somehow force the character out, which if discovered risks the player thinking that he is being forced out rather than the character. I have also not suggested doing anything one-sided, such as enacting your will as Dm-Dictator, which can result in enmity and recrimination. Be rational, logical, and reasonable with the player. You have a problem that requires his participation in the solution, or else he'll never be satisfied.
goblin_pride 02-09-07, 12:07 AM	Yeah, okay, while you all embarass yourselves by insulting the guy, how about the adults help the guy out? I was helping him out. Proper spelling is very important in a purely written form such as these boards. Did I say anything that could be taken as insulting?
Kreistor2 02-09-07, 12:45 AM	You didn't help him with the problem he was asking for help with. You mentioned only the spelling. If he wanted help with his spelling, he would have gone to www.dictionary.com. So, yes, by pointing out his misspelling (and not even the first person to do so), yes you were insulting him.
Ozymandias V. 02-09-07, 02:27 AM	Only not.
Logos7 02-09-07, 09:58 AM	well if the only reponce that people can think of to an actual question is "You spelt it wrong" I don't really see how that is being helpful, and personally i find it insulting when i ask a question and someone says " You spelt/said that wrong" sometimes we just need to let things slide really think the abuse is ignoring that knots come undone within 30 feet. Logos
Raziel_Brokodar 02-09-07, 02:53 PM	Yeah, okay, while you all embarass yourselves by insulting the guy, how about the adults help the guy out? hey I did both (help and make fun of the spelling) and embarrassed? hardly :P You didn't help him with the problem he was asking for help with. You mentioned only the spelling. If he wanted help with his spelling, he would have gone to www.dictionary.com. So, yes, by pointing out his misspelling (and not even the first person to do so), yes you were insulting him. Also the newest version of firefox underlines incorrectly spelled words, very useful for forum-types
goblin_pride 02-09-07, 05:06 PM	Also the newest version of firefox underlines incorrectly spelled words, very useful for forum-types Who needs Firefox? As often as the word rogue appears in the books, boards, articles and the website, you'd think the spelling of it would be painfully obvious. As to his question, if the PC is too overpowering, kill it off and help the player make the next one. If that doesn't get the job done, start limiting the choices during character generation. From the sound of it, the players could do with a bit of the abject humility of making PCs at first level with none of the optional material in the expanded canon.
Just another user 02-09-07, 05:28 PM	A thing to remember about D&D is that there is not the perfect combo, for every strategy there is a counter stategy or some monster/clall against which that strategy don't work (note: I don't particolary like this I find it more appropriate for a card game like MTG that for a RPG but whatever) So, if he like bind monster with a rod of ropes just send against him creatures that can't be tied, for example incorporeal creatures, ethereal, that can blink, with free action, strong enough to break the rope, ozees, swarms, with some form of Free Action, etc, etc.. Also he can do the trick only with one creature at the time, and when do it is vulnerable, send more creature slightly weakers rather than few stronger, also recheck the rod of ropes, because I'm not sure that what this guy is doing is possible with it.
Zombomaniac 02-09-07, 09:02 PM	My response to a rope dude? Str check. Plain and simple. Just through the Eberron version of the Hulk at him and lets see if ropes work.:D
Raziel_Brokodar 02-09-07, 09:46 PM	Who needs Firefox? As often as the word rogue appears in the books, boards, articles and the website, you'd think the spelling of it would be painfully obvious. well it works for spelling in general is what I meant Are you saying that you don't like/use Firefox?! :eek:
goblin_pride 02-09-07, 10:14 PM	Are you saying that you don't like/use Firefox?! :eek: Never used it, actually.
Edymnion 02-09-07, 10:38 PM	Then he got a Rod of Ropes, and thats when the $#!t hit the fan. Now I have him binding opponents to the ground by pikeing one end into the ground and lasoing them with the other.And just how exactly is he doing this? The Rod of Ropes does not have a pike that you can drive into the ground. Even if he is just sticking the rod itself into the ground, it has no way of actually staying there, so it would just pull out. Second, the Rod does not launch any kind of knot, and all knots in it untie when it rewinds. He would have to stop fighting, take an entire round to make a Use Rope check to tie a lasso, then most likely have to make a ranged attack to actually get the thing to loop around somebody, at which point it would be his own strength check pulling on the rope to reel somebody in. And if he fails that check, odds are the guy on the other end just yanked him off his feet and sent him sprawling. Aka, there is nothing about this item that would let it function the way you are describing that couldn't be done with a normal length of rope tied to a quarterstaff. Just because he says he does all of this stuff doesn't mean he can actually do it. There are rules for a reason. He has to make the checks, and doing all of this is going to take several rounds every time he does it, which is going to basically mean he spends most of the combat trying to set up a cheap and inneffective trick while the rest of the party is actually killing things. Really, I would be more worried about the fact that you've got a werepanther, a catfolk, and a vampire in the party than I would be over the use of a lasso.
yrogerg 02-10-07, 01:18 AM	hey I did both (help and make fun of the spelling) and embarrassed? hardly :P Also the newest version of firefox underlines incorrectly spelled words, very useful for forum-types Right, but rouge isn't an incorrectly-spelled word; it's absolutely the proper spelling for the makeup.
ArcTan 02-10-07, 01:30 AM	Right, but rouge isn't an incorrectly-spelled word; it's absolutely the proper spelling for the makeup. Not really. Anyone who doesn't want to sound middle-aged these days calls it "blush".
FrostWolf 02-10-07, 04:17 AM	So we have a rod that will pull something towards the user, and unknot at 30 feet? Okay! The target of the lasso, have it ready an action for being pulledtowards the panther guy, then give it a balance check to keep its footing. And that readied action, have it be charge. If it keeps its footing, let it's charge do extra damage/stun/ knock down the panther. Or gnome Wizard*/Giant slayers that use his own trick against him. *To use Enlarge person on the were Panther. I THINK it should up his size to something a giant slayer can be effective against. )
yrogerg 02-10-07, 09:39 AM	Not really. Anyone who doesn't want to sound middle-aged these days calls it "blush". Yeah, but Firefox's spellcheck doesn't know that. Though, it doesn't recognize the word "Firefox", by default, ironically enough.
spyone 02-10-07, 09:52 AM	Just chiming in on the thread's 2 main topics. :) 1) The original poster did apologize for any spelling errors in his post, and that's why I didn't comment on it earlier. However, subsequent posters who mimic his misspellings despite posts correcting them are either mocking him or simply careless. Either way, they deserve some grief. 2) I agree with what folks said above about talking to the player about how dominant he's become and how the game is supposed to be fun for everybody. As for his input on how to limit his character without totally nerfing him. And look for ways to make certain encounters resistant to his nifty new trick. I also agree that the party you have .... doesn't suit my tastes. But if you're having fun with it, game on!
Edymnion 02-10-07, 12:38 PM	So we have a rod that will pull something towards the user, and unknot at 30 feet? Okay!Actually, if we wanna get technical, the ability to haul things is only mentioned as a function of the grappling hook function, not the rope function. And the grappling hook section specifically says that hitting somebody with it only pushes them back like a bullrush attempt, not that it latches onto them. In fact, the Rope function specifically says that it only uncoils at a rate of 60' per round, which is *NOT* enough to send it shooting out. Which means that one, the character in question could not shoot a lasso out, as the only way to tie a lasso in the first place is to use the Rope function, and it just spins the rope out into a pile on the floor. Which the character then has to stop and tie, throw at the badguy, and reel back in manually. And even if you say the pulling power remains the same as the grappling hook function, then unless the character is braced, pulling anything heavier than himself is going to make him get pulled towards the target, not the other way around. Even if he does brace sufficiently, and makes the strength check to hold onto the thing as a thousand pounds of force tries to rip it out of his hands, like you said, the knot would untie 30' away from him, leaving the badguy much closer to him, unharmed, unhindered, ready to walk over and lay some smack down on the guy. So yeah, bottom line, this does not work. At all.
UnderworldLord 02-10-07, 08:27 PM	I'm completely in agreement, except the part about it not shooting out. A round is six seconds. Ten feet of rope per second is quite a it. Its not going to shoot out a lasso, no, but thats still quite a bit of speed.
Edymnion 02-10-07, 09:50 PM	I'm completely in agreement, except the part about it not shooting out. A round is six seconds. Ten feet of rope per second is quite a it. Its not going to shoot out a lasso, no, but thats still quite a bit of speed.It comes out at the same rate a human moves taking a double move, half the speed of a flat out run. It might shoot out a foot or two before falling to the ground.
AllWillFall2Me 02-13-07, 01:56 AM	My response, assuming you somehow ignore Edy's masterful analysis of the failure of the item to enact his trick, is any creature with the heat special ability. Takes care of ropes pretty quick. Tie up a burning man? Unlikely.
cypher_zero 02-13-07, 10:14 AM	My solution, at least for the short term, would be to burn the rope. Or steal it from him. He can always get a new one, but if you're pitting him against say a fire elemental, the item is going to be usesless. In essence, make the bigger baddies the ones he can't do it to. The guards at the front gate sure, but the boss wizard? Have him blink or something so he can't be tied down. cypher
goblin_pride 02-13-07, 10:27 AM	An even better idea is to make the enemies catch on to the trick and start using it against him. It's not a perfect solution, but it'll make him a little leery about using any tactics that regularly again. I did the same thing to a player that liked using big-damage fire spells against any spellcasters he saw, once the other side's spellcasters started tossing the same spells back at him, he seems to have mellowed out a bit.
spyone 02-13-07, 03:46 PM	An even better version of "turnabout" would be if monsters start exploiting a weakness in the attack. For instance, if he were not "planting" the rod but instead holding it, monsters might try to grab the rope as the lasso comes at them (or even comes by), and then give it a yank if they catch it. A few times where trying his lasso trick led to him getting his face yanked into somebody's fist will likely convince him that that tactic is not for all situations. :) Barring that, my DM is a big proponent of "if a tactic works every time, the monsters will figure that out". Have there been survivors of any encounter he's used that tactic in? Anybody who could have observed it, then fled? If so, soon all the humanoid monsters in the area are playing with lassos, and some of the smarter ones may have started trying to aquire a nifty magic item like his. So the next time they come across a group of hobgoblins, 2 or 3 of them have lassos and try to nab him. Eventually, he runs into a group of monsters where one has the same device as him, and uses it the same way. I don't know why, really, but our parties have always abandoned strategies that monsters turned back on us.
goblin_pride 02-13-07, 05:01 PM	I don't know why, really, but our parties have always abandoned strategies that monsters turned back on us. I think that's a pretty standard pattern.
eRaz0r 02-16-07, 07:37 PM	I have to agree with Edym. There's no way this trick should work at all. Allowing it to work at all was the OP's first mistake. My advice : tell the guy that you made a mistake in interpreting the rules and you'll have to nerf his "one trick" -- so now he needs a new pony. If your players are not the type to take nerfs well, then some of the other tactics (including stealing the item, destroying the item, using the item against the party, or adjusting monsters and their tactics to account for the item), ought to be considered. Killing off the character for no other reason than you let the player get away with something he shouldn't have is not a good solution, unless your player group consists of a bunch of "easy-come, easy go" types who throw their characters together in an afternoon and don't give a flying fig if they survive more than three sessions.
Quarion Silverfrond 02-17-07, 11:58 AM	Thanks for the help. I apreciate it. An for future referance, correcting my spelling is not an insult, ONCE. Multiple times by the same person is just plain annoying.
Edymnion 02-17-07, 01:22 PM	Thanks for the help. I apreciate it. An for future referance, correcting my spelling is not an insult, ONCE. Multiple times by the same person is just plain annoying.Heh, but I bet you won't make that mistake again, will ya? :D
johnkretzer 02-17-07, 11:50 PM	There is nothing in the description of the item that says it works this way. As a matter of fact what he is doing shouldn't work very well. Have you read it? If so how did you think it could work this way. You actualy have to face a bigger problem. Since you have to allow it you got to go to him and say it doesn't work that way anymore. This can be diffitcult. My suggestion is to phase it in such a way as it is botrh of your faults..."We been making a mistake...".