Help with plot direction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with plot direction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thavis
04-08-08, 01:43 PM The setup:

In Sharn, a PC admitted to the group's favorite barkeep that he killed a fellow party member--she was naturally agasht, but otherwise continued to serve the PCs. Fast forward a weeks realtime, and our game group picked up new characters to run Eyes of the Lich Queen. We played through the adventure and afterward, the new PCs went to Sharn for more adventure and, while meandering through Tavick's Landing, found their previous haunt. Sadly, the barkeep they remembered is surly and curt and not her jovial self. In addition, shady halflings are the most frequent visitors to the bar instead of the gambit of visitors that used to frequent the local. The PCs have since headed off to Xen'drik for treasure.

What the PCs don't know:
The barkeep, disgusted with the PC's actions, talked to her late husbands' contacts in the Black Dogs and had the offensive PC assassinated. Her involvement after this forced her to let the group opperate out of the bar as payment of her debt, and she's gradually relented until the point, now, where she is an influential memeber of the group and accepts her new role. Although a few guards suspect something is wrong with the place, she pays off enough captains to turn a blind eye to the establishment.

What I need help with:
I want to unravel what happened to the barkeep slowly (not just a straightforward dialoge of what happened) and offer the PCs a chance to redeem one of their favorite NPCs -- ideally in a way that pits them against her/Black Dogs without triggering their bloodthirsty nature (because the PCs will try to kill anything they see as a threat).

The PCs will be about level 14-15 when they return, although I suspect this won't be a high-combat challenge.
Rania
04-10-08, 01:59 PM I'll think about this; I hate seeing any thread with zero responses.
grifo
04-12-08, 11:49 AM I'd say it's time for you to make a Sharn advanture.

From what you wrote it shouldn't be that hard to make this into an adventure.
You can start with a request from a local cop the group knows to help investigate some dubious case. In turn, the case leads them to the black dogs, and from them to your barkeep.

However if you go this way you'd better switch the black dogs with some real criminal organization like The Boromar Clan. if you do this you can set a situation where the PCs have to decide - except the new barkeep and get a powerful yet evil ally, fight her along with the rest of the Clan, or straighten the barkeep up and get the Boromars as enemies.
Cloud Divider
04-13-08, 09:39 PM Assuming I understand what's going on, here's the quick summary:

1) PC #1 admits to barkeep that he killed PC #2.
2) Barkeep makes a devil's bargain with the Black Dogs to have PC #1 assassinated.
3) PCs leave Sharn.
4) Black Dogs make Barkeep's tavern ("Cheers," for my amusement) into a base of operations
5) Barkeep gains influence in the Black Dogs. (I don't buy the "don't want it" angle - you don't gain influence by being passive. With a gang like this, everyone is "predator" or "prey" - if she's passive, she's not going to have any real influence)
6) PC's return, find Cheers has a totally different feel. The clientele is...smarmy, and the barkeep is surly.

You somehow want the PC's to figure out what happened here?
And somehow have it turn out such that the barkeep doesn't get killed by the PCs?

The latter is probably going to be relatively unlikely - PC's tend to have very, very low tolerance for anyone calling a hit on a fellow party member. "So what if we were friends once...she called in a hit job on Dave! She's goin' DOWN!" Maybe they stop short and just call the watch on her - that's probably the best possible outcome.

But hey, your players may be different. Even still - step into the PC's shoes a bit - you've got your Band of Brothers, folk who've stood with each other in the most dire of situations, relying on each other, and saving each others lives. It's going to be pretty tough justifying no action on their part... Unless you've got some really spectacular redemption arc planned for the barkeep.

As far as getting the PC's involved...perhaps a witness comes forward, to give the PC's just enough information to start moving on the Black Dogs. Naturally, they're doing it out of their own self interest...having a gang of 15th level PCs owing you a favor is pretty sweet; alternatively, perhaps the witness belongs to another gang or some other group that would benefit from the Black Dogs going down.

Feed them just enough information to get the PC's interest. Maybe someone gives them some info on the sort of dastardly activities the Black Dogs are up to.

Then they can discover evidence of the hit job put out on PC #1.

But I predict it will End In Flames, for Cheers. The bar will get demolished in a spectacular barfight (Keen flame bursting war-axes and 7th level combat spells will do that to a place), and I suspect the barkeep will get cut down.
ChaoticGood
04-14-08, 08:16 AM Cloud Divider: You almost got it right, except that this is a new group of PCs played by the same players. Still, the players are unlikely to take hearing of one of their group's previous character's untimely demise well, so... Yeah, I think got it spot-on. :)

So here's a few suggestions for making this less lethal and more intriguing...

1. Drop the idea of the barkeep having power in the organization. As Cloud Divider pointed out, if she didn't want the power, then she wouldn't have it. This is a criminal organization, not a civic duty, and she doesn't exactly sound like the former Don's eldest living heir... UNLESS...

2. She's fallen for one of the Black Dog thugs and is now letting them dig their claws deeper into her business because she's torn between keeping her lover close or fighting back and almost certainly losing his affections. This way, the barkeep isn't so much an enemy as a tragic figure who needs the PCs to rescue her even though she is working against them.

To make this work, make your top Black Dog is a real lady's man, a Rogue with high Charisma, Bluff, etc. He may even have her under the grip of a charm person or make frequent use of suggestion to keep her pining for him and giving him what he wants. Whatever tactics he has at his disposal for getting close to his victims, he should surely turn them on any female PCs as well.

3. Revealing things slowly:

The first time the new PCs are in the bar, mention that there is rack on the wall with the retired mugs of previous patrons who once called the bar their home away from home, each with a small brass plaque bearing the former owner's name. They are sure to ask if their previous characters' names are on the rack; here you can reveal that the killer's name is NOT present, and that an empty hook stands next to the hooks of the other previous PCs' mugs. If they don't ask, simply call for a Spot check to notice that one of the hooks is conspicuously empty, the plaque beneath it recently removed.

If asked about the empty hook, the barkeep simply mutters, "That treacherous vermin is the whole reason I'm in this mess. I'd rather not talk about it." If pressed, she becomes irritated and asks, "Are you going to order a drink or what? Because if not, there's plenty of paying customers I could be serving right now!" Other patrons may also be loath to discuss the dead ex-PC as well; they'll have to look elsewhere to learn the mysterious circumstances surrounding the character's untimely disappearance or death by defenestrating acid burns (or whatever method the assassin may have used).

Later, have a member of the City Watch show up, talk quietly with the barkeep, and then be admitted into the back room. (Later investigation can reveal this as one of the "crooked cops" who keeps the Watch from turning the bar inside-out to get to the Black Dogs.) Call for a Spot check to notice that several of the shadier people in the bar made quietly for the door when he arrived.

After all this, if they haven't taken the hook... I can't help ya. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thavis 04-08-08, 01:43 PM	The setup: In Sharn, a PC admitted to the group's favorite barkeep that he killed a fellow party member--she was naturally agasht, but otherwise continued to serve the PCs. Fast forward a weeks realtime, and our game group picked up new characters to run Eyes of the Lich Queen. We played through the adventure and afterward, the new PCs went to Sharn for more adventure and, while meandering through Tavick's Landing, found their previous haunt. Sadly, the barkeep they remembered is surly and curt and not her jovial self. In addition, shady halflings are the most frequent visitors to the bar instead of the gambit of visitors that used to frequent the local. The PCs have since headed off to Xen'drik for treasure. What the PCs don't know: The barkeep, disgusted with the PC's actions, talked to her late husbands' contacts in the Black Dogs and had the offensive PC assassinated. Her involvement after this forced her to let the group opperate out of the bar as payment of her debt, and she's gradually relented until the point, now, where she is an influential memeber of the group and accepts her new role. Although a few guards suspect something is wrong with the place, she pays off enough captains to turn a blind eye to the establishment. What I need help with: I want to unravel what happened to the barkeep slowly (not just a straightforward dialoge of what happened) and offer the PCs a chance to redeem one of their favorite NPCs -- ideally in a way that pits them against her/Black Dogs without triggering their bloodthirsty nature (because the PCs will try to kill anything they see as a threat). The PCs will be about level 14-15 when they return, although I suspect this won't be a high-combat challenge.
Rania 04-10-08, 01:59 PM	I'll think about this; I hate seeing any thread with zero responses.
grifo 04-12-08, 11:49 AM	I'd say it's time for you to make a Sharn advanture. From what you wrote it shouldn't be that hard to make this into an adventure. You can start with a request from a local cop the group knows to help investigate some dubious case. In turn, the case leads them to the black dogs, and from them to your barkeep. However if you go this way you'd better switch the black dogs with some real criminal organization like The Boromar Clan. if you do this you can set a situation where the PCs have to decide - except the new barkeep and get a powerful yet evil ally, fight her along with the rest of the Clan, or straighten the barkeep up and get the Boromars as enemies.
Cloud Divider 04-13-08, 09:39 PM	Assuming I understand what's going on, here's the quick summary: 1) PC #1 admits to barkeep that he killed PC #2. 2) Barkeep makes a devil's bargain with the Black Dogs to have PC #1 assassinated. 3) PCs leave Sharn. 4) Black Dogs make Barkeep's tavern ("Cheers," for my amusement) into a base of operations 5) Barkeep gains influence in the Black Dogs. (I don't buy the "don't want it" angle - you don't gain influence by being passive. With a gang like this, everyone is "predator" or "prey" - if she's passive, she's not going to have any real influence) 6) PC's return, find Cheers has a totally different feel. The clientele is...smarmy, and the barkeep is surly. You somehow want the PC's to figure out what happened here? And somehow have it turn out such that the barkeep doesn't get killed by the PCs? The latter is probably going to be relatively unlikely - PC's tend to have very, very low tolerance for anyone calling a hit on a fellow party member. "So what if we were friends once...she called in a hit job on Dave! She's goin' DOWN!" Maybe they stop short and just call the watch on her - that's probably the best possible outcome. But hey, your players may be different. Even still - step into the PC's shoes a bit - you've got your Band of Brothers, folk who've stood with each other in the most dire of situations, relying on each other, and saving each others lives. It's going to be pretty tough justifying no action on their part... Unless you've got some really spectacular redemption arc planned for the barkeep. As far as getting the PC's involved...perhaps a witness comes forward, to give the PC's just enough information to start moving on the Black Dogs. Naturally, they're doing it out of their own self interest...having a gang of 15th level PCs owing you a favor is pretty sweet; alternatively, perhaps the witness belongs to another gang or some other group that would benefit from the Black Dogs going down. Feed them just enough information to get the PC's interest. Maybe someone gives them some info on the sort of dastardly activities the Black Dogs are up to. Then they can discover evidence of the hit job put out on PC #1. But I predict it will End In Flames, for Cheers. The bar will get demolished in a spectacular barfight (Keen flame bursting war-axes and 7th level combat spells will do that to a place), and I suspect the barkeep will get cut down.
ChaoticGood 04-14-08, 08:16 AM	Cloud Divider: You almost got it right, except that this is a new group of PCs played by the same players. Still, the players are unlikely to take hearing of one of their group's previous character's untimely demise well, so... Yeah, I think got it spot-on. :) So here's a few suggestions for making this less lethal and more intriguing... 1. Drop the idea of the barkeep having power in the organization. As Cloud Divider pointed out, if she didn't want the power, then she wouldn't have it. This is a criminal organization, not a civic duty, and she doesn't exactly sound like the former Don's eldest living heir... UNLESS... 2. She's fallen for one of the Black Dog thugs and is now letting them dig their claws deeper into her business because she's torn between keeping her lover close or fighting back and almost certainly losing his affections. This way, the barkeep isn't so much an enemy as a tragic figure who needs the PCs to rescue her even though she is working against them. To make this work, make your top Black Dog is a real lady's man, a Rogue with high Charisma, Bluff, etc. He may even have her under the grip of a charm person or make frequent use of suggestion to keep her pining for him and giving him what he wants. Whatever tactics he has at his disposal for getting close to his victims, he should surely turn them on any female PCs as well. 3. Revealing things slowly: The first time the new PCs are in the bar, mention that there is rack on the wall with the retired mugs of previous patrons who once called the bar their home away from home, each with a small brass plaque bearing the former owner's name. They are sure to ask if their previous characters' names are on the rack; here you can reveal that the killer's name is NOT present, and that an empty hook stands next to the hooks of the other previous PCs' mugs. If they don't ask, simply call for a Spot check to notice that one of the hooks is conspicuously empty, the plaque beneath it recently removed. If asked about the empty hook, the barkeep simply mutters, "That treacherous vermin is the whole reason I'm in this mess. I'd rather not talk about it." If pressed, she becomes irritated and asks, "Are you going to order a drink or what? Because if not, there's plenty of paying customers I could be serving right now!" Other patrons may also be loath to discuss the dead ex-PC as well; they'll have to look elsewhere to learn the mysterious circumstances surrounding the character's untimely disappearance or death by defenestrating acid burns (or whatever method the assassin may have used). Later, have a member of the City Watch show up, talk quietly with the barkeep, and then be admitted into the back room. (Later investigation can reveal this as one of the "crooked cops" who keeps the Watch from turning the bar inside-out to get to the Black Dogs.) Call for a Spot check to notice that several of the shadier people in the bar made quietly for the door when he arrived. After all this, if they haven't taken the hook... I can't help ya. :)