Historic Parallels in Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Historic Parallels in Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Intellectual Punk
07-29-07, 01:54 AM I've noticed some interesting parallels in this setting. Not only the Great War but does Darguun remind anyone of a budding young Nazi Germany? Droaam seems to me a model of Communist Russia early on with all of the Monstrous races pitching in ignorant of the Tyrant Hags(Stalin, Trotsky, and Lenin) ruling over them.

Q'Barra seems like a model of Israel only in the sense that people are coming onto the land and angering the various Lizard Races(Palestinians)

I'm thinking about making a game in which Darguun becomes unified and tries to reclaim its former glory and the characters are caught in the middle of it all, does anyone have any advice?
Charles Phipps
07-29-07, 03:04 AM Well, Eberron in my campaigns relies very heavily on real-world parallels but none of the ones you made in your realm are remotely similar to the ones I make. Mostly, because your choices are very much done along the lines of non-humans and its more difficult to do the parallels I make with them.

However, here's the ones that I make.

The Last War: World War 1. Heroism as a concept died in Eberron during the Last War. The glories of battle were muted by the fact that the technology outpaced the human factor. The looming threat of World War 2 also hangs in the balance. Obviously, the Hundred Years War is also there.

Karrnath: Nazi Germany for its fascist military run culture, it's secret police, and its cult of personality. Soviet Union for frequent famine and the frequent cultural revolution and de-revolution backtracking it does. Parts resemble Fantasy Transylvania with its abundance of crumbling castles and undead.

Dargunn: Pre-Tokugawa Japan. The Hobgoblins have a culture of feuding Daimayos in my games with a leader who dreams of reviving the Shogunate of his race. It's the place where you get your samurai.

Aundair: Elizabethan England mixed with Chivalric France. Grand courts, gaity, and intrigue out the gazoopa.

Thrane: Post-Reconquest Spain with some elements of the Papal States and Venice Italy.

Breland: The fantasy United States of America with Sharn serving as New York City and London crossbreed. The Parliament is very Pre-Revolution and the Sons of Liberty are an evil version of the American forefathers.

Droam: Pretty much a generic fairy kingdom of Unseelie horrors and strangeness that no sane man would enter.

Eldeen Reaches: Scotland during Edward the First complete with kilts, claymores, and crazy accents plus the Druids are very Celtic anti-Roman Empire resistance.

Q'Barra: Oddly, with it's Swamps and Lizardmen plus port town nature. I make it the Eberron version of New Orleans. Lots of mixed cultures turning into a unique one with imports, including slaves, from Xen'drick.

Cyre: Pre-Apocalypse, I imply Cyre was Italian flavored with the heart of it being very Roman. Most of the survivors are characterized by Byronic morbidity and Dadaism.

The Giant Civilization: Atlantis.

The Dhakaani: The Numenoreans.

Mror Holds: Sadly, I've made no real progress beyond it being Dwarfland.

Valenar: Somewhat Mongol in attitudes with most of them ruling over the peasantry with a disinterested attitude. I also like the idea of Mongolian Elf women, very cute ;-)

Lhazaar Principalities: Very Arabic in attitude. Corsairs and all of that. Very Persian.

Sarlona: Imperial China during the Qin. Heavy censors, fawning diplomats, everyone wears black like in Hero. The Kalashtar get all the cool wuxia stuff to resist them.

Xen'drick: South America crossed with the African Congo of Alan Quartermain.

Aerenal: Somewhat Aztec in nature.

Argonessan: They're dragons dude.

Serens: Viking in attitude and somewhat more primitive than the rest of the world.
JulesCARV
07-29-07, 03:38 AM The Last War actually might be a bit more like the breakup of Yugoslavia than like WW1. Galifar was a single society with a variety of territories and groups which was torn asunder after a previous era of integration and peace.

It would be interesting to know if similar atrocities were committed. (e.g., early in the war, Karrnathi soldiers go to a neighborhood in Karlakkton filled with Thranish-accented Silver Flame worshippers and murder, rape, and torture them into fleeing to Thrane.) Perhaps this has already been addressed in the novels.
Charles Phipps
07-29-07, 03:58 AM The Last War actually might be a bit more like the breakup of Yugoslavia than like WW1. Galifar was a single society with a variety of territories and groups which was torn asunder after a previous era of integration and peace.

It would be interesting to know if similar atrocities were committed. (e.g., early in the war, Karrnathi soldiers go to a neighborhood in Karlakkton filled with Thranish-accented Silver Flame worshippers and murder, rape, and torture them into fleeing to Thrane.) Perhaps this has already been addressed in the novels.

It depends, Yugoslavia was on religious and ethnic grounds. Galifar might be better termed the breakup of the Holy Roman Empire with the states inside it becoming independent Europe.

And its stated that war crimes were committed by all sides but it seems fairly clear that no state was actively pursuing campaigns of terror if these war crimes trials had a leg to stand on.
JulesCARV
07-29-07, 04:43 AM Well, war crimes trials regarding the Former Yugoslavia are primarily due to outside pressure, which wouldn't apply to the Former Galifar.

In WW2, the Japanese and Germans were tried for war crimes because they lost, and the Allies were in charge.

In the former Yugoslavia, all parties are subject to such trials, because of the outside pressure from other Europeans.

In the former Galifar, there are neither clear victors fully occupying their former opponents' territory nor such outside pressure, so there's no real reason that anyone responsible for such crimes would be held to account.
Kaodi
07-29-07, 11:08 AM Breland is always compared to some combination of Britain and the United States, but I think the predominantly European-descended countries of the historic British Empire as a whole would make for a better comparison, especially when you consider Pre-War Breland.

Sharn and Wroat may be the New York and London of Breland, but the conflict within the constitutional monarchy is more akin to the rumblings in Australia, Canada and, to a lesser extent, Britain, than it is to the conflict during the U.S. War of Independance. I think the Sons of Liberty are not so much as evil Franklin's and Madison's as they are the FLQ inspired by those people.

In terms of territories, Droaam is kind of like Australia during the penal colony era, rugged and full of dangerous folks. The Shadow Marches on the other hand, are something of a combination of the Yukon and Alaska during the Gold Rush, mixed in with Amazon, set in a swamp. Not sure about Zilargo, though. The whole information loving, conspiratorial diplomatics building advanced armaments doesn't really have any good parallels in the real world, unless maybe you want to impose the spirit of Bismarck on Pre-War Germany. Lastly, Xen'drik can certainly be compared to Britains " New World " , though only in the broadest sense.
DwarfPcfan
07-29-07, 11:27 AM I've made several Parallels between Eberron and real world History and Myth in my games to ease players.

The Last War:World war I

Karnath: Half-Way Between Tsarist Russia and Sparta because of the Emphasis on battle excellence, Karnathi cynicism, hardship, totalitarian king, harsh climate, as well the warrior culture and the importance of war etc

Breland: England with concepts from both the Victorian Age and during WWI and II, especially after reading shadows of the last war. Their isolation seems mostly geographical. Sharn is London, King Boranel reminds me of Winston Churchill, etc

Aundair: France during the reign of King Louis XIV, seriously, swashbucklers, fine wine, agrarian countryside, political games. France during reign of King Louis all the Way

Thrane: Elements from the Papal states, a several Sassanid Califates etc. Basically what Characterizes medieval Theocracies.

Cyre: Venice and Italy during the Renaissance as the Hub of culture, refinement, the arts etc. all of these traits explain why Cyre was the jewel of the Kingdom and are important traits of Venice and Italy during the renaissance

Eldeen Reaches: Scotland during the reign of King Edward. Kilts, claymores, Highlander, you name it...

Valenar: the Turkish and Arab Empires all the way from it's fratural relationship with Karnath (Similar how the Turks dealt with Russia), Horseman, Glorius noble Warrior, Scimitars, arabian knights etc.

The Mror Holds: Pre-Toguwa Japan moving toward the Toguwa dynasty. Feuding clans, very closed access to outsiders. warlords, blood feuds. etc

Daargun: Roman empire, everything about Daargun screams roman. A warrior culture, an emperor. Invaded by humans from Sarlona during it's crumbling last age just like the romans fell to barbarian invaders.

Aerenal: Egypt during Ramses II mixed with India Mythology, Aztec and Mayan Ideas. All to fit with jungle pyramids, the city of the Dead. Reincarnation etc.

Xendrik: Atlantis, man

Just a few ideas...
Alex_
07-29-07, 12:55 PM Disclaimer: Not meant to encourage view of Eberron cultures as analogues or actual substitutes for real world cultures and societies throughout history. Just pointing out similar themes and concepts, and stressing that these should not be interpreted as suggesting a "If it happened XYZ in history, it should likely happen the same in Eberron cause it's just like that place/culture/religion." These are similarities I've noticed after the fact rather than extrapolation on future possibilities. Eberron has it's own fluff for that.

That said...

Shadow Marches: Elements of North/North-Eastern Europe with a little bit of South East Asia/Indonesia tossed in. Orcs and Humans live together in long clan houses and practice various polytheistic and animist religions. The swampy terrain means that structures are all on stilts.

Dhakaan (and Darguun to a lesser extent): Mix of Eastern Asia and some of the Roman EMpire. Strong emphasis on law and order, strong martial tradition, but largely agnostic/atheist. Hobgoblins sporting Samurai style banded armor and helmets with crests, and other Hobgoblins in armor reminiscent of mainland East Asia and a queue-like hairstyle. Darguun is currently attempting to consolidate its power and modernize like the other nearby nations but faces internal conflict while the Dhakaani are composed of feuding clans who hire out members of a neutral party known for training Monk/Rogues to serve as spies and assassins. Dhakaan threatens to conquer Darguun and pose a threat to the nearby nations.

Seren: Elements of the Pacific Islands and Carribean. Party lands and meets strang tribal people dressed in scales and teeth, are captured and tied to a stake to be offered to the island's sacred beast: a Dragon.

Talenta Plains: Many elements of the Native Americans of the Great Plains and Southwest. The Hahlfling relationship with smaller dinosaurs is similar to how the Native Americans relied on Horses and Dogs. Nomadic culture built around following grazing animals on which they depend for food, hide, sinew, and other things as the Plains Native Americans relied on American Bison. Gatherhold is similar to the famous communities of the Anasazi- carved directly out of face of a cliff/mesa/canyon.
Charles Phipps
07-29-07, 01:06 PM I think the best part is, save for Aundair, almost everyone has wildly different views on the bad guys.

Emerald Claw: The Thule Society. It's a secret occult German Knighthood that's (currently) outlawed but plotting to take over. Of course, this is more combining it with the later SS and some fantasy conspiracies about it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Intellectual Punk 07-29-07, 01:54 AM	I've noticed some interesting parallels in this setting. Not only the Great War but does Darguun remind anyone of a budding young Nazi Germany? Droaam seems to me a model of Communist Russia early on with all of the Monstrous races pitching in ignorant of the Tyrant Hags(Stalin, Trotsky, and Lenin) ruling over them. Q'Barra seems like a model of Israel only in the sense that people are coming onto the land and angering the various Lizard Races(Palestinians) I'm thinking about making a game in which Darguun becomes unified and tries to reclaim its former glory and the characters are caught in the middle of it all, does anyone have any advice?
Charles Phipps 07-29-07, 03:04 AM	Well, Eberron in my campaigns relies very heavily on real-world parallels but none of the ones you made in your realm are remotely similar to the ones I make. Mostly, because your choices are very much done along the lines of non-humans and its more difficult to do the parallels I make with them. However, here's the ones that I make. The Last War: World War 1. Heroism as a concept died in Eberron during the Last War. The glories of battle were muted by the fact that the technology outpaced the human factor. The looming threat of World War 2 also hangs in the balance. Obviously, the Hundred Years War is also there. Karrnath: Nazi Germany for its fascist military run culture, it's secret police, and its cult of personality. Soviet Union for frequent famine and the frequent cultural revolution and de-revolution backtracking it does. Parts resemble Fantasy Transylvania with its abundance of crumbling castles and undead. Dargunn: Pre-Tokugawa Japan. The Hobgoblins have a culture of feuding Daimayos in my games with a leader who dreams of reviving the Shogunate of his race. It's the place where you get your samurai. Aundair: Elizabethan England mixed with Chivalric France. Grand courts, gaity, and intrigue out the gazoopa. Thrane: Post-Reconquest Spain with some elements of the Papal States and Venice Italy. Breland: The fantasy United States of America with Sharn serving as New York City and London crossbreed. The Parliament is very Pre-Revolution and the Sons of Liberty are an evil version of the American forefathers. Droam: Pretty much a generic fairy kingdom of Unseelie horrors and strangeness that no sane man would enter. Eldeen Reaches: Scotland during Edward the First complete with kilts, claymores, and crazy accents plus the Druids are very Celtic anti-Roman Empire resistance. Q'Barra: Oddly, with it's Swamps and Lizardmen plus port town nature. I make it the Eberron version of New Orleans. Lots of mixed cultures turning into a unique one with imports, including slaves, from Xen'drick. Cyre: Pre-Apocalypse, I imply Cyre was Italian flavored with the heart of it being very Roman. Most of the survivors are characterized by Byronic morbidity and Dadaism. The Giant Civilization: Atlantis. The Dhakaani: The Numenoreans. Mror Holds: Sadly, I've made no real progress beyond it being Dwarfland. Valenar: Somewhat Mongol in attitudes with most of them ruling over the peasantry with a disinterested attitude. I also like the idea of Mongolian Elf women, very cute ;-) Lhazaar Principalities: Very Arabic in attitude. Corsairs and all of that. Very Persian. Sarlona: Imperial China during the Qin. Heavy censors, fawning diplomats, everyone wears black like in Hero. The Kalashtar get all the cool wuxia stuff to resist them. Xen'drick: South America crossed with the African Congo of Alan Quartermain. Aerenal: Somewhat Aztec in nature. Argonessan: They're dragons dude. Serens: Viking in attitude and somewhat more primitive than the rest of the world.
JulesCARV 07-29-07, 03:38 AM	The Last War actually might be a bit more like the breakup of Yugoslavia than like WW1. Galifar was a single society with a variety of territories and groups which was torn asunder after a previous era of integration and peace. It would be interesting to know if similar atrocities were committed. (e.g., early in the war, Karrnathi soldiers go to a neighborhood in Karlakkton filled with Thranish-accented Silver Flame worshippers and murder, rape, and torture them into fleeing to Thrane.) Perhaps this has already been addressed in the novels.
Charles Phipps 07-29-07, 03:58 AM	The Last War actually might be a bit more like the breakup of Yugoslavia than like WW1. Galifar was a single society with a variety of territories and groups which was torn asunder after a previous era of integration and peace. It would be interesting to know if similar atrocities were committed. (e.g., early in the war, Karrnathi soldiers go to a neighborhood in Karlakkton filled with Thranish-accented Silver Flame worshippers and murder, rape, and torture them into fleeing to Thrane.) Perhaps this has already been addressed in the novels. It depends, Yugoslavia was on religious and ethnic grounds. Galifar might be better termed the breakup of the Holy Roman Empire with the states inside it becoming independent Europe. And its stated that war crimes were committed by all sides but it seems fairly clear that no state was actively pursuing campaigns of terror if these war crimes trials had a leg to stand on.
JulesCARV 07-29-07, 04:43 AM	Well, war crimes trials regarding the Former Yugoslavia are primarily due to outside pressure, which wouldn't apply to the Former Galifar. In WW2, the Japanese and Germans were tried for war crimes because they lost, and the Allies were in charge. In the former Yugoslavia, all parties are subject to such trials, because of the outside pressure from other Europeans. In the former Galifar, there are neither clear victors fully occupying their former opponents' territory nor such outside pressure, so there's no real reason that anyone responsible for such crimes would be held to account.
Kaodi 07-29-07, 11:08 AM	Breland is always compared to some combination of Britain and the United States, but I think the predominantly European-descended countries of the historic British Empire as a whole would make for a better comparison, especially when you consider Pre-War Breland. Sharn and Wroat may be the New York and London of Breland, but the conflict within the constitutional monarchy is more akin to the rumblings in Australia, Canada and, to a lesser extent, Britain, than it is to the conflict during the U.S. War of Independance. I think the Sons of Liberty are not so much as evil Franklin's and Madison's as they are the FLQ inspired by those people. In terms of territories, Droaam is kind of like Australia during the penal colony era, rugged and full of dangerous folks. The Shadow Marches on the other hand, are something of a combination of the Yukon and Alaska during the Gold Rush, mixed in with Amazon, set in a swamp. Not sure about Zilargo, though. The whole information loving, conspiratorial diplomatics building advanced armaments doesn't really have any good parallels in the real world, unless maybe you want to impose the spirit of Bismarck on Pre-War Germany. Lastly, Xen'drik can certainly be compared to Britains " New World " , though only in the broadest sense.
DwarfPcfan 07-29-07, 11:27 AM	I've made several Parallels between Eberron and real world History and Myth in my games to ease players. The Last War:World war I Karnath: Half-Way Between Tsarist Russia and Sparta because of the Emphasis on battle excellence, Karnathi cynicism, hardship, totalitarian king, harsh climate, as well the warrior culture and the importance of war etc Breland: England with concepts from both the Victorian Age and during WWI and II, especially after reading shadows of the last war. Their isolation seems mostly geographical. Sharn is London, King Boranel reminds me of Winston Churchill, etc Aundair: France during the reign of King Louis XIV, seriously, swashbucklers, fine wine, agrarian countryside, political games. France during reign of King Louis all the Way Thrane: Elements from the Papal states, a several Sassanid Califates etc. Basically what Characterizes medieval Theocracies. Cyre: Venice and Italy during the Renaissance as the Hub of culture, refinement, the arts etc. all of these traits explain why Cyre was the jewel of the Kingdom and are important traits of Venice and Italy during the renaissance Eldeen Reaches: Scotland during the reign of King Edward. Kilts, claymores, Highlander, you name it... Valenar: the Turkish and Arab Empires all the way from it's fratural relationship with Karnath (Similar how the Turks dealt with Russia), Horseman, Glorius noble Warrior, Scimitars, arabian knights etc. The Mror Holds: Pre-Toguwa Japan moving toward the Toguwa dynasty. Feuding clans, very closed access to outsiders. warlords, blood feuds. etc Daargun: Roman empire, everything about Daargun screams roman. A warrior culture, an emperor. Invaded by humans from Sarlona during it's crumbling last age just like the romans fell to barbarian invaders. Aerenal: Egypt during Ramses II mixed with India Mythology, Aztec and Mayan Ideas. All to fit with jungle pyramids, the city of the Dead. Reincarnation etc. Xendrik: Atlantis, man Just a few ideas...
Alex_ 07-29-07, 12:55 PM	Disclaimer: Not meant to encourage view of Eberron cultures as analogues or actual substitutes for real world cultures and societies throughout history. Just pointing out similar themes and concepts, and stressing that these should not be interpreted as suggesting a "If it happened XYZ in history, it should likely happen the same in Eberron cause it's just like that place/culture/religion." These are similarities I've noticed after the fact rather than extrapolation on future possibilities. Eberron has it's own fluff for that. That said... Shadow Marches: Elements of North/North-Eastern Europe with a little bit of South East Asia/Indonesia tossed in. Orcs and Humans live together in long clan houses and practice various polytheistic and animist religions. The swampy terrain means that structures are all on stilts. Dhakaan (and Darguun to a lesser extent): Mix of Eastern Asia and some of the Roman EMpire. Strong emphasis on law and order, strong martial tradition, but largely agnostic/atheist. Hobgoblins sporting Samurai style banded armor and helmets with crests, and other Hobgoblins in armor reminiscent of mainland East Asia and a queue-like hairstyle. Darguun is currently attempting to consolidate its power and modernize like the other nearby nations but faces internal conflict while the Dhakaani are composed of feuding clans who hire out members of a neutral party known for training Monk/Rogues to serve as spies and assassins. Dhakaan threatens to conquer Darguun and pose a threat to the nearby nations. Seren: Elements of the Pacific Islands and Carribean. Party lands and meets strang tribal people dressed in scales and teeth, are captured and tied to a stake to be offered to the island's sacred beast: a Dragon. Talenta Plains: Many elements of the Native Americans of the Great Plains and Southwest. The Hahlfling relationship with smaller dinosaurs is similar to how the Native Americans relied on Horses and Dogs. Nomadic culture built around following grazing animals on which they depend for food, hide, sinew, and other things as the Plains Native Americans relied on American Bison. Gatherhold is similar to the famous communities of the Anasazi- carved directly out of face of a cliff/mesa/canyon.
Charles Phipps 07-29-07, 01:06 PM	I think the best part is, save for Aundair, almost everyone has wildly different views on the bad guys. Emerald Claw: The Thule Society. It's a secret occult German Knighthood that's (currently) outlawed but plotting to take over. Of course, this is more combining it with the later SS and some fantasy conspiracies about it.