House rule for Region of Origin (critique)... [Archive] - Wizards Community

House rule for Region of Origin (critique)... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cyber-Dave
08-17-05, 02:21 PM A character comming from a region of origin must pick one class from the regions listed classes. This class becomes the characters favored class. If the character is human it gains all the listed classes as favored classes. A character must pick 2 skills from the listed skills. These two skills become class skills for the character (for purposes of class skill/cross class skill rank buying) no matter what class the character is currently leveling in. Furthermore, if the character has any levels in a class that already grants that skill/those skills as a class skill/skills, the character gains a +2 synergy bonus to his chosen skill/skills. Finally, at first level, the character gains an additional bonus feat which must be chosen from the regional feat list... but the character must meet all the prerequisits for that feat.
DarkWarriorKarg
08-17-05, 03:00 PM A critique it is...

A character comming from a region of origin must pick one class from the regions listed classes. This class becomes the characters favored class. If the character is human it gains all the listed classes as favored classes.

So instead of a racial favored class, a regional favored class. So, for example, a person from Aundair could have wizard as a favored class, regardless of race. Sounds good. I would hjave designed the ECS to work that way in the first place.

A character must pick 2 skills from the listed skills. These two skills become class skills for the character (for purposes of class skill/cross class skill rank buying) no matter what class the character is currently leveling in. Furthermore, if the character has any levels in a class that already grants that skill/those skills as a class skill/skills, the character gains a +2 synergy bonus to his chosen skill/skills.

There is a feat in the most recent Dragon magazine that does something similar with diplomacy and knowledge(nobility) (Noble Born, was it?). Not that a +2 synergy bonus is game breaking, but is it necessary? The above-mentioned feat did not give a bonus to the two skills. (Just comparing here)

And would not competence, instead of synergy, be the proper term in this case?

Finally, at first level, the character gains an additional bonus feat which must be chosen from the regional feat list... but the character must meet all the prerequisits for that feat.

I give you a free feat, but limit you in what it can be. Good enough for me.
nyysjan
08-17-05, 03:57 PM the favored class is a class that the race shows natural physical/magical aptitude in.

the starting class might be decided by the area of origin but othervise the favored classes should stay the same.
and how many people multiclass anyhow (other than PC's or Villains/Minions)
PoeticJustice
08-17-05, 05:39 PM It sounds god but it might require a little more interaction with the Player than you anticipate, as a fair many regions list little more than the Action Point feats or Dragonmark PrCs. You'd have to expand upon the list is what I'm saying.
ryanroyce
08-17-05, 07:01 PM I've been considering something along these lines for a while now, as well as developing Eberron 'subraces' (i.e., small tweaks like giving Aereni elves Irial as a bonus language, or Valenar elves Ranger as a Favored Class, not alternate stat mods).

I definitely agree with tying Favored Classes to regions instead of races, since nationality is so much more important than race in Eberron. The bonus class skill by region I'm a little less sold on, but I am still in favor of it. The bonus feat... I dunno. Maybe a combination of the two mechanics: instead of a synergy or circumatance bonus to a skill, you may take Skill Focus (or a suitable +2/+2 skill feat) in that skill as a bonus feat. Or something like that...

Ryan
makeshiftwings
08-17-05, 07:25 PM I like it, but I would drop the +2 skill synergy bonus. Giving those skills as a class skill is enough. I think the feat idea is good, but I'd have to go through and see if any of the feats jump out at me as being too good compared to others. I think some of the more underused feats (like the ones that give +2 to two skills) deserve to be given away for free since they add a little RP flavor and don't really do too much mechanically, but I probably wouldn't want to give away something like Power Attack for free.

Edit: I didn't see it until after I posted, but I agree this is a good compromise:

Maybe a combination of the two mechanics: instead of a synergy or circumatance bonus to a skill, you may take Skill Focus (or a suitable +2/+2 skill feat) in that skill as a bonus feat. Or something like that...
Arcane Guyver
08-17-05, 07:44 PM All good ideas, save for possibly the skill bonuses, which made me go cross-eyed.
Wizardman
08-18-05, 01:17 AM This system reminds me of the Wheel of Time system. I like that system, and I've also sort-of come up with a similar house rule. The feat part remains the same, but instead of skill bonuses, I came up with a small list of skills that are always class skills for that region and a +4 ranks in any one of those skills. This is across the board, and all characters (PC's and NPC's, heroic classes and NPC classes) get that bonus to one skill.

It doesn't really work elsewhere, but the idea of favoured classes being tied into region rather than race fits Eberron very well, IMO. After all, there are people that live in the homelands- the Mror Holds, Aerenal/Valenar, Zilargo, the Shadow marches/Demon Wastes, and the Talenta Plains- and people that line in the remnants of Galifar, which are themselves distinct from each other, and each culture is fairly well established. I also made each Dragonmarked House it's own region of origin. The reason is that the Houses transcend national borders, and are united by their industries and Marks. While a Cannith from, say, Cyre, will talk with a Cyran accent and probably favour Cyran foods and fashions, he or she will have much more in common with a Cannith from Breland then with a noble of similar standing who is also from Cyre.
Just another user
08-18-05, 03:09 AM Just my opinion, but I found such rules unneccesary at best.

First, I'm of the school of thought that says Favored classes are racial and not cultural, an halfling can grow up in Aundair surrounded by wizards or between the seren barbarians and still he would have an better attitude for rogueing than for anything else, the same for elves, dwarves and C.

for the skills, nobody seems ever to remember it, but customizing the class skill list (or the Favclass) is already an option of the PHB, you don't need special home rules for that you only need the GM approval (and I think it work better if done case by case and not with a general rule, anyway)

For the free feat, no. Just no.
Cyber-Dave
08-18-05, 02:37 PM first, I'm of the school of thought that says Favored classes are racial and not cultural

Fair enough, but I am of the school of thought that says favored classes should be cultural and not racial... if they exist at all.

but customizing the class skill list (or the Favclass) is already an option of the PHB, you don't need special home rules for that you only need the GM approval

This would not be a change to one class skill list. Indeed, it would not swap out any of a characters already existing class skills. This would be two extra class skills for EVERY class that character would take.

For the free feat, no. Just no.

Again, I respect your opinion... but if every character in the world gets one extra feat, I don't see a balance problem.

Just my opinion, but I found such rules unneccesary at best.

I should have been clearer when I posted this. I'm looking for a critique on balance issues. While its nice to see that many more people seem to like my rules rather than not (for flavor reasons), I have already decided that such rules add flavor to a setting/game. I like rules that make a characters cultural background mean something. I'm not looking for opinions are whether such rules are necessary, or whether favored classes should exist, or whether favored classes are based on genetic makup. Such opinions are just that. Opinions. They are based on personal preferance. Personally, I hate the idea that all elves have a "raciel makup" that makes them "better wizards". I think its silly and contrite. I like rules that emphasise culture. I like rules that say that drow tribe x has this favored class, and drow tribe y has that favored class, because x and y are not the same culturally. In the end, my game, my rules.

What I AM looking for, and what I thank many of the posters for giving me, is opinions based on balance issues with my new rule set.

Now on to a discussion based on balance.

DarkWarriorKrag:

Not that a +2 synergy bonus is game breaking, but is it necessary?

Well, this was my reasoning. I want to make sure that everyone gets something. The idea was to make ones regional background skills and classes more appealing. If I just make it two skills which are always class skills, the problem I would run into is the fact that many regional classes already have the regional skills as class skills. I decided to steal the mechanic used for d20 modern professions, and apply it to regions in eberron. I felt that this would make certain regional skills more appealing to regional classes that already have those skills as class skills. I am not sure if my idea was the best one possible. Perhaps a wheel of time mechanic, which gives 4 free ranks, would be more in order. What do you guys think?

P.S. Dark, you are right, it would be a competence bonus, and not a synergy bonus. :P

Nyysjan:

I’m sorry, but as I have already told just another user, I dislike, and disagree, with your school of thought. I respect that you have a different school of thought then me, but it really has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with opinion. I’m not looking for a debate on opinion. You are welcome to yours. It doesn’t match mine though. If you have any balance issues to point out, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I eat what I like, and play with rules that I like. I’m sorry if my tastes don’t match yours.

Poetic Justice:

I will look into it. Thank you for pointing that out. Any suggestions as to which feats should be taken away, or added, to which regions would be VERY appreciated.

Ryan:

I see where you are coming from, but I am worried that the result would be that people who went with a single non-regional class would benefit more than people who went with a single regional class, or multiclass combination with a regional class. They would get both the class skills, and be able to take a feat in something other than a skill bonus. What do you think of the free ranks as opposed to +2 competence bonus? Is it a more appealing game mechanic?

Makeshift:

Again, I’m worried that if I just leave it as class skills, regional classes would get the shaft as they usually have those skills as class skills already.

Arcane:

What about the mechanic made you go crosseyed please? As I have yet to decide how I will make things work mechanically, all balance related input would be beneficial to me at this current moment in time.

Wizardman:

While I don’t mind giving a total of 4 extra ranks out to the players (and forcing them to distribute the 4 between the 2 skills of their choice), giving 4 extra ranks out to each of the two class skills is a bit to much for my tastes.

Everyone:

So what is the verdict, is 4 extra skill ranks to be distributed between 2 skills which also count as class skills no matter what class the player takes a better game mechanic then the +2 competence bonus for people who already have the skills as class skills?
a_psh
08-18-05, 04:58 PM Here's an issue. Fairly minor, but something to consider:

All of these mechanical benefits for a region of origin now make choosing your region of origin a rollplaying decision as well as a roleplaying decision. This can have a negative effect of promoting regional stereotypes... if a druid can get a free sect feat by being from the Eldeen Reaches but doesn't have access to any directly useful feats if he chooses another region of origin, how many druids will be from Breland or Q'Barra or Droam?

Basically, you have to build that list VEEEEEERY judiciously if you want to avoid "every druid is from Eldeen, every wizard is from Aundair, every paladin is from Thrane, every changeling rogue is from Sharn, and every bard is a displaced Cyran" syndrome.
DarkWarriorKarg
08-18-05, 05:02 PM So what is the verdict, is 4 extra skill ranks to be distributed between 2 skills which also count as class skills no matter what class the player takes a better game mechanic then the +2 competence bonus for people who already have the skills as class skills?

Well, IMG, I handed out:
2 Ranks Knowledge (local, hometown)
1 Rank Knowledge (local, country)
To reflect that a local generally has more knowledge that a new arrival...
I realize that a competence bonus mya be more in order, but hey... it's not as

If you grew up in Sharn, you would know more about Sharn than the guy who grew up in Lhazaar.

I also gave each player 4 ranks in a skill used for a profession. It allows the players' to make characters that are a bit more in depth. Especially the guys who only get 2 sp/level... (My player's paladin is trained as a barrister, for example...). I insist that they have a profession that they were trained for, but I don't penalize them for my insistance...

And yes, the Paladin can't shut up...
Arcane Guyver
08-18-05, 08:30 PM I think the problem I had with the skill bonuses was multiclassing.

As someone mentioned already, the lists for the different countries would definitely need to be expanded upon, lest every person from Valenar has Ranger as their favored class.
Cyber-Dave
08-19-05, 01:24 PM Yea. The Valenar favored class is going to be expanded to ranger, fighter, and monk. I will include scout too if I decide to buy the book that has it in it.

As for the free feat thing brought up by a_psh... I was kind of hoping that since it is only one free feat, and not a list of feats from which the character must make his selection, that "druids from other regions" would still be good as there would still be a good feat from another region for the druid to take... just not one based on being a druid (druid is just the example class I filled in here). I will look into the problem though. If what you suggest starts being a problem with my group, or if as I start writing down my expanded lists I feel that the lists suggest such a problem, I will look for a solution of some sort. Thank you for pre-emtivly pointing out that possible problem ash.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cyber-Dave 08-17-05, 02:21 PM	A character comming from a region of origin must pick one class from the regions listed classes. This class becomes the characters favored class. If the character is human it gains all the listed classes as favored classes. A character must pick 2 skills from the listed skills. These two skills become class skills for the character (for purposes of class skill/cross class skill rank buying) no matter what class the character is currently leveling in. Furthermore, if the character has any levels in a class that already grants that skill/those skills as a class skill/skills, the character gains a +2 synergy bonus to his chosen skill/skills. Finally, at first level, the character gains an additional bonus feat which must be chosen from the regional feat list... but the character must meet all the prerequisits for that feat.
DarkWarriorKarg 08-17-05, 03:00 PM	A critique it is... A character comming from a region of origin must pick one class from the regions listed classes. This class becomes the characters favored class. If the character is human it gains all the listed classes as favored classes. So instead of a racial favored class, a regional favored class. So, for example, a person from Aundair could have wizard as a favored class, regardless of race. Sounds good. I would hjave designed the ECS to work that way in the first place. A character must pick 2 skills from the listed skills. These two skills become class skills for the character (for purposes of class skill/cross class skill rank buying) no matter what class the character is currently leveling in. Furthermore, if the character has any levels in a class that already grants that skill/those skills as a class skill/skills, the character gains a +2 synergy bonus to his chosen skill/skills. There is a feat in the most recent Dragon magazine that does something similar with diplomacy and knowledge(nobility) (Noble Born, was it?). Not that a +2 synergy bonus is game breaking, but is it necessary? The above-mentioned feat did not give a bonus to the two skills. (Just comparing here) And would not competence, instead of synergy, be the proper term in this case? Finally, at first level, the character gains an additional bonus feat which must be chosen from the regional feat list... but the character must meet all the prerequisits for that feat. I give you a free feat, but limit you in what it can be. Good enough for me.
nyysjan 08-17-05, 03:57 PM	the favored class is a class that the race shows natural physical/magical aptitude in. the starting class might be decided by the area of origin but othervise the favored classes should stay the same. and how many people multiclass anyhow (other than PC's or Villains/Minions)
PoeticJustice 08-17-05, 05:39 PM	It sounds god but it might require a little more interaction with the Player than you anticipate, as a fair many regions list little more than the Action Point feats or Dragonmark PrCs. You'd have to expand upon the list is what I'm saying.
ryanroyce 08-17-05, 07:01 PM	I've been considering something along these lines for a while now, as well as developing Eberron 'subraces' (i.e., small tweaks like giving Aereni elves Irial as a bonus language, or Valenar elves Ranger as a Favored Class, not alternate stat mods). I definitely agree with tying Favored Classes to regions instead of races, since nationality is so much more important than race in Eberron. The bonus class skill by region I'm a little less sold on, but I am still in favor of it. The bonus feat... I dunno. Maybe a combination of the two mechanics: instead of a synergy or circumatance bonus to a skill, you may take Skill Focus (or a suitable +2/+2 skill feat) in that skill as a bonus feat. Or something like that... Ryan
makeshiftwings 08-17-05, 07:25 PM	I like it, but I would drop the +2 skill synergy bonus. Giving those skills as a class skill is enough. I think the feat idea is good, but I'd have to go through and see if any of the feats jump out at me as being too good compared to others. I think some of the more underused feats (like the ones that give +2 to two skills) deserve to be given away for free since they add a little RP flavor and don't really do too much mechanically, but I probably wouldn't want to give away something like Power Attack for free. Edit: I didn't see it until after I posted, but I agree this is a good compromise: Maybe a combination of the two mechanics: instead of a synergy or circumatance bonus to a skill, you may take Skill Focus (or a suitable +2/+2 skill feat) in that skill as a bonus feat. Or something like that...
Arcane Guyver 08-17-05, 07:44 PM	All good ideas, save for possibly the skill bonuses, which made me go cross-eyed.
Wizardman 08-18-05, 01:17 AM	This system reminds me of the Wheel of Time system. I like that system, and I've also sort-of come up with a similar house rule. The feat part remains the same, but instead of skill bonuses, I came up with a small list of skills that are always class skills for that region and a +4 ranks in any one of those skills. This is across the board, and all characters (PC's and NPC's, heroic classes and NPC classes) get that bonus to one skill. It doesn't really work elsewhere, but the idea of favoured classes being tied into region rather than race fits Eberron very well, IMO. After all, there are people that live in the homelands- the Mror Holds, Aerenal/Valenar, Zilargo, the Shadow marches/Demon Wastes, and the Talenta Plains- and people that line in the remnants of Galifar, which are themselves distinct from each other, and each culture is fairly well established. I also made each Dragonmarked House it's own region of origin. The reason is that the Houses transcend national borders, and are united by their industries and Marks. While a Cannith from, say, Cyre, will talk with a Cyran accent and probably favour Cyran foods and fashions, he or she will have much more in common with a Cannith from Breland then with a noble of similar standing who is also from Cyre.
Just another user 08-18-05, 03:09 AM	Just my opinion, but I found such rules unneccesary at best. First, I'm of the school of thought that says Favored classes are racial and not cultural, an halfling can grow up in Aundair surrounded by wizards or between the seren barbarians and still he would have an better attitude for rogueing than for anything else, the same for elves, dwarves and C. for the skills, nobody seems ever to remember it, but customizing the class skill list (or the Favclass) is already an option of the PHB, you don't need special home rules for that you only need the GM approval (and I think it work better if done case by case and not with a general rule, anyway) For the free feat, no. Just no.
Cyber-Dave 08-18-05, 02:37 PM	first, I'm of the school of thought that says Favored classes are racial and not cultural Fair enough, but I am of the school of thought that says favored classes should be cultural and not racial... if they exist at all. but customizing the class skill list (or the Favclass) is already an option of the PHB, you don't need special home rules for that you only need the GM approval This would not be a change to one class skill list. Indeed, it would not swap out any of a characters already existing class skills. This would be two extra class skills for EVERY class that character would take. For the free feat, no. Just no. Again, I respect your opinion... but if every character in the world gets one extra feat, I don't see a balance problem. Just my opinion, but I found such rules unneccesary at best. I should have been clearer when I posted this. I'm looking for a critique on balance issues. While its nice to see that many more people seem to like my rules rather than not (for flavor reasons), I have already decided that such rules add flavor to a setting/game. I like rules that make a characters cultural background mean something. I'm not looking for opinions are whether such rules are necessary, or whether favored classes should exist, or whether favored classes are based on genetic makup. Such opinions are just that. Opinions. They are based on personal preferance. Personally, I hate the idea that all elves have a "raciel makup" that makes them "better wizards". I think its silly and contrite. I like rules that emphasise culture. I like rules that say that drow tribe x has this favored class, and drow tribe y has that favored class, because x and y are not the same culturally. In the end, my game, my rules. What I AM looking for, and what I thank many of the posters for giving me, is opinions based on balance issues with my new rule set. Now on to a discussion based on balance. DarkWarriorKrag: Not that a +2 synergy bonus is game breaking, but is it necessary? Well, this was my reasoning. I want to make sure that everyone gets something. The idea was to make ones regional background skills and classes more appealing. If I just make it two skills which are always class skills, the problem I would run into is the fact that many regional classes already have the regional skills as class skills. I decided to steal the mechanic used for d20 modern professions, and apply it to regions in eberron. I felt that this would make certain regional skills more appealing to regional classes that already have those skills as class skills. I am not sure if my idea was the best one possible. Perhaps a wheel of time mechanic, which gives 4 free ranks, would be more in order. What do you guys think? P.S. Dark, you are right, it would be a competence bonus, and not a synergy bonus. :P Nyysjan: I’m sorry, but as I have already told just another user, I dislike, and disagree, with your school of thought. I respect that you have a different school of thought then me, but it really has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with opinion. I’m not looking for a debate on opinion. You are welcome to yours. It doesn’t match mine though. If you have any balance issues to point out, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I eat what I like, and play with rules that I like. I’m sorry if my tastes don’t match yours. Poetic Justice: I will look into it. Thank you for pointing that out. Any suggestions as to which feats should be taken away, or added, to which regions would be VERY appreciated. Ryan: I see where you are coming from, but I am worried that the result would be that people who went with a single non-regional class would benefit more than people who went with a single regional class, or multiclass combination with a regional class. They would get both the class skills, and be able to take a feat in something other than a skill bonus. What do you think of the free ranks as opposed to +2 competence bonus? Is it a more appealing game mechanic? Makeshift: Again, I’m worried that if I just leave it as class skills, regional classes would get the shaft as they usually have those skills as class skills already. Arcane: What about the mechanic made you go crosseyed please? As I have yet to decide how I will make things work mechanically, all balance related input would be beneficial to me at this current moment in time. Wizardman: While I don’t mind giving a total of 4 extra ranks out to the players (and forcing them to distribute the 4 between the 2 skills of their choice), giving 4 extra ranks out to each of the two class skills is a bit to much for my tastes. Everyone: So what is the verdict, is 4 extra skill ranks to be distributed between 2 skills which also count as class skills no matter what class the player takes a better game mechanic then the +2 competence bonus for people who already have the skills as class skills?
a_psh 08-18-05, 04:58 PM	Here's an issue. Fairly minor, but something to consider: All of these mechanical benefits for a region of origin now make choosing your region of origin a rollplaying decision as well as a roleplaying decision. This can have a negative effect of promoting regional stereotypes... if a druid can get a free sect feat by being from the Eldeen Reaches but doesn't have access to any directly useful feats if he chooses another region of origin, how many druids will be from Breland or Q'Barra or Droam? Basically, you have to build that list VEEEEEERY judiciously if you want to avoid "every druid is from Eldeen, every wizard is from Aundair, every paladin is from Thrane, every changeling rogue is from Sharn, and every bard is a displaced Cyran" syndrome.
DarkWarriorKarg 08-18-05, 05:02 PM	So what is the verdict, is 4 extra skill ranks to be distributed between 2 skills which also count as class skills no matter what class the player takes a better game mechanic then the +2 competence bonus for people who already have the skills as class skills? Well, IMG, I handed out: 2 Ranks Knowledge (local, hometown) 1 Rank Knowledge (local, country) To reflect that a local generally has more knowledge that a new arrival... I realize that a competence bonus mya be more in order, but hey... it's not as If you grew up in Sharn, you would know more about Sharn than the guy who grew up in Lhazaar. I also gave each player 4 ranks in a skill used for a profession. It allows the players' to make characters that are a bit more in depth. Especially the guys who only get 2 sp/level... (My player's paladin is trained as a barrister, for example...). I insist that they have a profession that they were trained for, but I don't penalize them for my insistance... And yes, the Paladin can't shut up...
Arcane Guyver 08-18-05, 08:30 PM	I think the problem I had with the skill bonuses was multiclassing. As someone mentioned already, the lists for the different countries would definitely need to be expanded upon, lest every person from Valenar has Ranger as their favored class.
Cyber-Dave 08-19-05, 01:24 PM	Yea. The Valenar favored class is going to be expanded to ranger, fighter, and monk. I will include scout too if I decide to buy the book that has it in it. As for the free feat thing brought up by a_psh... I was kind of hoping that since it is only one free feat, and not a list of feats from which the character must make his selection, that "druids from other regions" would still be good as there would still be a good feat from another region for the druid to take... just not one based on being a druid (druid is just the example class I filled in here). I will look into the problem though. If what you suggest starts being a problem with my group, or if as I start writing down my expanded lists I feel that the lists suggest such a problem, I will look for a solution of some sort. Thank you for pre-emtivly pointing out that possible problem ash.