Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stone_dog 10-05-04, 05:19 AM	October 16th is coming up fast and I can think of no better time to start up an Eberron campaign. I have long been a fan of side rules to bolster a game into the shape that I want of it, so here are a bunch of things I am thinking of doing to my game. First of all I think that it is important that the tone of the game I am planning is understood. It will be pulp. Thick rich pulp that would clog a straw if you tried to drink it, the only way to do it is to open wide and chug the glass quick because somebody just threw a barstool at your head. Some things I am planning on putting in may seem overpowered to a few of you out there, but I do these things so I don't feel all that bad when I slam them in the head with a tire iron instead of a wifflebat. 10 years off and on as a GM and I haven't had complaints yet*. Accusations that I may just be out of my mind pulling some stunts, but always given with grins because the PCs were still standing. God bless their tenacious little masochistic hearts. So where shall we start. First of all lets take character creation. Simple enough really. Take a look at page 169 of the DMG under Organic Characters. Make it 5d6 instead of 4 and we have a deal. It has worked GREAT in the past and has given the PCs a nice false sense of security. Then we have Races. Everything from the ECS is in, plus goblinoids and goliaths. Nezumi are seriously tempting, but only one player would want such a thing. If he brings it up he can have it, but it I'll just hold off and see if he does. Classes now. Pretty much any WotC core class is a go here as well as some of alderac entertainment's Swashbuckling adventure classes (Courtier, swashbuckler and noble). What ever they choose is going to get a nice boost because I am gestalting. Oh, I'm not TELLING anybody I am gestalting, but I am all the same. I am just going to tack on the Expert generic class onto the back of whatever they choose and give them nifty general feats to flesh out their characters and give them a little kick. Nobody will have less than a d6 hit die and everybody will have a minimum of 6+int skill points, but no additional class skills. This will be the last step of character creation and I am looking forward to the look on everybodies face. What? At least I'm not giving them all free reign to be x+rogue. If I opened the Gestalt door all the way there would be sneak attacks freakin everywhere! As it was my last FR game ended up being Team Rogue vs The World. Lots of fun, but four flanking rogues and a combat brute can really shorten a combat. Where was I... oh yes. Skills. Here is a nifty skill for a sorcerer to have. Manipulate Spell (Cha; Trained Only;Sorcerer Only) Like Craft and Profession Skills, Manipulate Spell encompasses a wide range of skills, one for each spell the sorcerer has mastered (through the Spell Mastery feat). Check: By studying a specific spell in precise detail (and taking an additional move equivalent action to fully harness the spell's energies), a sorcerer may alter the effects of the spell randomly. The result of the sorcerer's skill check determines the final result of the spell. I don't know how to make a nifty chart, so just divide the check result by ten and round down. That is how many free metamagic levels you gain. That is right. Free. You don't even have to know the proper feat. This skill brought to you by the OGL, Alderac Entertainment and the letter Z. Then there are feats. Yes, there are going to be a LOT of them in this game. I will be doling most of them out though. Paying attention to what their character concepts are and making their mechanics match their concepts just a bit more. Yay. Alignments? Pshht. Ditch 'em. Wait.. no. Replace them with D20 modern allegainces (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/msrdallegiances.rtf). That way I can still have detect/smite/send-to-detention Evil and have it work the same way, but give the PCs a bit more rope to hang themselves... er... freedom. Plus it works well with pulp since anybody that pings under detect evil really IS a bad bad person. There is still a stack of moral ambiguity, but once the person makes the choice to jump headfirst into the darkside he really can't hide it anymore. One more thing to push the game away from noir and into pulp. Not all the villains will have the allegiance "Evil," but those that do... oh watch out for them! Action Points. I love them so. I want the PCs to have more of them. I know! Whenever the PC takes an action that supports an allegiance at the character's expense you gain an action point. Example. You are a paladin. Your allegiances lie with Law, Goodness and the Paladin's Code. As a player you KNOW that your nemesis is going to betray your trust, but you let him gain his weapon again anyway. You have sacrificed an advantage to adhere to your allegiance and so gain an action point. Your allegiance lies with the Undying Court. You have a lich down to one hit point. As you ready the killing blow the thing rasps "slay me, and you will never know where to find your sister." "But, I am the last of my line..." "No, there is another." "... Then I shall not sully her honor by allowing such an abomination as you to exist." SMITITY-SMITE-SMITE-SMITE! You have upheld your faith in the face of temptation. Surely the action point you gain will aid you on your road to find your kin. Spend them quick though because they reset every level even if you managed to gain more than the usual maximum. There are a few more tidbits I am looking forward to sharing, but that must wait till later. I find that the screen is growing increasingly hard to focus on and my mind is slipping towards slumbering dreams of grandeur and glory. Till then, gentle reader. Dream well. *Okay... there was the ONE guy in the highschool werewolf game, but what did he expect? A bane latched onto his head and his first reaction was to HURL himself into the Abyss?! I even gave him a chance to rewind and think that over, but it was still his call. Come on man... you leap headfirst into a great bit Wyrm pit and you think a bane is going to panic? Ah huh. And a pack of orcs won't follow you into Mordor either.
GMSteve 10-05-04, 05:34 AM	Well my house rules are pretty simple: (1) Action Points Save me From Death! - Character can spend a number of action points equal to their level. If they do when struck by a blow that gets them dead (i.e.-11 HP) then instead they are just at -1. Oh and your con goes down by one permentatly. (2) Elves are proficent with Scimitar and not Longsword. (3) Classes - Any UA Variant Class, Plus Core Books Only (4) Ability Scores two choices - 4d6 organic or the method where you roll 4d6 in order, switch any two, reroll lowest one. (5) Paladins can be any good alignment. Not Neccesarly LG. (6) Armor - There is something called aromered Clothes- has the same stats as padded armor - also there is a buff jacket - same as padded armor as well. One Comment to Stone Dog Though - If you have not used the Swashbuckling Adventure Classes before, be warned, I have in a regular DnD game and find them a bit more overbalanced than the cores. Your choice of course, if that is not a problem, but just in case it is. But mixing them can be a problem in previous games, however given your other house rules, I don't think that will break your game.... I start my games at level 2 - so people can multiclass to get the right concept for their characters.
Saurenda 10-05-04, 01:01 PM	Er isn't 'spell mastery' a wizards only feat, since sorcerors can spontenously cast any spell they know without preperation? What the point of spending an extra feat that remoemorizes a spell you already know and can cast freely without prep? Am I missing something with sorcs?
stone_dog 10-05-04, 01:53 PM	Okay, time to clarify a bit of change to the spell mastery feat then. Wizards take the feat so that they don't have to have their spell books to memorize certain spells anymore. Add to that that when a sorcerer takes the feat those are a certain number of spells that can be manipulated freely with the manipulate spell skill. Thanks for the caveat there Steve! I did notice that the SA classes were a little more over the top than the core classes, but I've done standard games and I've done gritty games. I've had months of gurps level low fantasy and some pretty standard (but fun) FR dungeon crawls. I need to go absolutely nuts here and just run wild with high flying two fisted pulp with no holds barred. If the GM can't go to Exalted, then Exalted must come to the GM. It is going to be a blast and I can't wait to share it. Have to go for a while now, but I'll be back to share more of my planned goodies.
Saurenda 10-05-04, 01:57 PM	I do not recall this particular change, was this in the 3.5 errata or is this another homebrew idea of yours.
m15a 10-05-04, 02:21 PM	i don't know about the surprise gestalting. i'm sure a sorceror/wizard would be thrilled, getting 4 extra skill points and ~1 hp/level. but what does the rogue get? not only does he get nothing, but now everyone has enough skills to cover most of what the rogue might do. i'm not too big on the screw-the-rogue variants out there. (like a roll of a 1 being an automatic failure on skill checks.) of course, there are still reasons to use a rogue (traps and sneak attack), but i'd feel disappointed going through character creating and coming up with a cool idea for a rogue character, and then finding out that i'm so not needed.
Save-vs-DM 10-05-04, 02:21 PM	I have to say that adding a gestalt expert is quite a good idea, in the long term. I usually just give out a bonus feat or two for backstory, but your idea works well too. Sounds like a fun game. Hope it goes well for you. Cheers, Save vs DM
stone_dog 10-05-04, 04:50 PM	Yes saurenda, that was not an official 3.5 change, but an extra bit I am throwing in. Not that I am expecting anybody to play a sorcerer (or a wizard, bard, druid or any spellcaster other than a cleric. nobody has for years), but it is nice to have such a rule there. Pretty much everything I am talking about here might as well have "Optional, sweet merciful gygax don't get this near a standard game!" in big friendly letters as if the surgeon general posted it there. m15a, I am going for everybody having enough skill points to solidify their class skills. Nobody gets to pick additional class skills so the rogue is still going to be the master of a good solid stack of things. I know my rogue player pretty well anyway and the knowlege that she will be rolling d8s instead of d6s for sneak attack (improved sneak attack feat) will make her squeel like a schoolgirl at a boy band concert. All things told a pretty fun player to have, but she loves her sneak attacks to the point where she isolates her sneak attack dice from everything else and will smack the hand that tries to touch them. Funny, she is fairly reasonable other than that. Now the artificer MAY be stepping on her toes a bit with the whole disable device thing, but I bet I can push the rogue at open lock and let the artificer have disable device. I am pushing her towards watch detective/inquisitive anyway so there really shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't be doing most of these things if I didn't know my players very well anyway. I am confident that these changes will go very well with them. Thanks Save! Bonus feats are always good fun PLUS this will help me to get these people to pick a prestige class. They just don't want to multiclass at all due to missing out on higher level abilities. It is a niggling concern, but it always kinda bugged me. This way they can have their cake and eat it too. "Oh, you want to be the greatest fencer in the world? Let me help you with that." Lets have an extra bit of show and tell. Action points. I have a good supply of these lovely firey chessex d6s. they will go into a bowl in the middle of the table and people can take their supply for the session right there. If someone does something that is worthy of another AP they can raid the gold mine for another one. Hopefully that will encourage more heroic acts and adherance to allegiances having the bowl of brightly colored dice sitting there waiting to be plundered for glory. However, every once in a while I imagine that somebody will do something wildly out of character or wildly disruptive to the game. Grossly breaking the terms of her allegiances for example. Refusing to stop singing the damn badger song for another. For those times I have a smaller number of black dice to place into the bowl. Those are action points for me to use against the PCs. Little black reminders that the actions of the few can affect the success of the group. I've done things like that before in Deadlands (taking an extra fate chip) and it seemed to work just fine. Fun in fact to reach over and start slowly collecting re-rolls until the player singing "Brave Sir Robin" stops singing. A chorus once in a while is comedy, but every time somebody backs away from a beastie is just irritating. In sword and sorcery's Advance Players Guide there is an optional rule for skill based spellcasting. Basically casty classes have "spellcasting" as an additional skill that they roll to make a spell go off. I don't have the book with me at work, but the DCs are pretty reasonable. You can safely cast spells of a given level a number of times equal to your number of spell slots. After that the DCs start increasing each time you try and cast another spell of that level. If you fail by more than 5 then you take subdual damage equal to the level of the spell. There are also overchanneling rules in the Wheel of Time RPG that would allow casters to push themselves past the normal boundries of their spell slots at the risk of damaging their bodies and minds. I am not as familiar with those, but just remembered them. I am on the fence about these sorts of things at the moment. I want magic to be more flexible, but don't like spell points in general or the magic recharge variants in Unearthed Arcana. Neither do I like casters just being tapped out after their slots are expended. I'll probably make a decision on those in a little while, but if anybody has actual game experience with these rules let me know how well they worked for you. PCs I am hoping for right now are an elven cleric of the Undying Court, a changling investigator(rogue), an artificer (not concerned about race there, but warforged would be nifty), a human marshal or noble and a kalashtar monk. so far it looks like I am going to get them all, so yay for me. I may even get a sixth player (another excuse to run them through adventures a couple levels too high for them) and I bet I can talk that one into a shifter ranger or barbarian. No more than Six though. I like six, but seven is just too many people to handle effectively and won't fit at the table anyway. Oh dear... I see that i have to go to work now. thanks for the feedback. the more I roll the ideas about and nip any potential problems in the bud the more fun my players will be having!
ChrisTheS 10-05-04, 08:55 PM	I may have to yoink that Manipulate Spell skill for purposes of getting players to actually use metamagic feats (been playing 3e since it came out, and not once has anyone in any game I've been in or run used metamagic).
stone_dog 10-05-04, 09:07 PM	You may want to take a look at the original version in Swashbuckling Adventures. It was tailored to be a class exclusive skill for their Witch class and I did take some liberties in translating it to sorcerer.
Brastan 10-05-04, 09:09 PM	As to the rouge backstabbing fest you wish to avoid in a Gestalt I have a fix. Yet another Optional rule (are we taking about DnD or BESM here? ). I think in Complete Warrior a fighterish Rogue was presented. You lose the Rogues normal abilities in favor of the Fighters bonus feat progression. Everything else stays the same. Take a look at that. Sounds like its going to be a fun set of adventures, Also don't remind one or more of you players about Use Rope. I've never seen a grappling hook put to such evil/coldly effective use until my group started playing Eberron *shudder*.
ChrisTheS 10-05-04, 09:14 PM	Ah...fortunately, I have said book... well, not really. I OWN it, but it's my fiancee who HAS it; which means it's 200 miles away from me at the moment, making it a bit hard to consult... but thanks for the info nonetheless :)
GMSteve 10-06-04, 12:39 AM	I would also like to add that I will be using background feats in my next game. Too late for the one I have right now. But Background feats are extra feats that everyone gets at first level. Just one. Usually I have a slew of them, similar to something like educated, but also have veteran, nobleman (not of the house but of the nobility), and several others, got the idea from SpellJammer - Shadows of the Spider Moon. It is a bit of a boost to be sure, but it really helps the players get into the game, and as a one shot feat at 1st level not really that overpowering. Just to give an example: Veteran You fought in the last war. You have seen a lot of action, and have been injured, you know how to keep your eyes peeled, and your wits about you during combat. You get a +1 to Initative and +2 to spot rolls used during threatening circumstances (such as to spot an ambush or a sneaking figure or similar). Conscript You were conscripted to fight into one of the great armies, it wasn't fun to say to say the least. You learned to drill hard, and had a hard time with the rations, but you made it through. You gain profiecency in one of the following weapons - Spear (any) halbred or other polearm, Light or Hvy Crossbow, Dagger. If you are already proficent then you get the equivalent of weapon focus with that weapon. Note that this +1 to hit bonus does not stack with weapon focus, and does not count as weapon focus as a prerequisite for other feats. Additionally, it toughened your spirit up, you get a +1 to Will saves.
Atlictoatl 10-06-04, 10:15 AM	In sword and sorcery's Advance Players Guide there is an optional rule for skill based spellcasting. Basically casty classes have "spellcasting" as an additional skill that they roll to make a spell go off. I don't have the book with me at work, but the DCs are pretty reasonable. You can safely cast spells of a given level a number of times equal to your number of spell slots. After that the DCs start increasing each time you try and cast another spell of that level. If you fail by more than 5 then you take subdual damage equal to the level of the spell. There are also overchanneling rules in the Wheel of Time RPG that would allow casters to push themselves past the normal boundries of their spell slots at the risk of damaging their bodies and minds. I am not as familiar with those, but just remembered them. I am on the fence about these sorts of things at the moment. I want magic to be more flexible, but don't like spell points in general or the magic recharge variants in Unearthed Arcana. Neither do I like casters just being tapped out after their slots are expended. I'll probably make a decision on those in a little while, but if anybody has actual game experience with these rules let me know how well they worked for you. Unless you are planning on giving the spellcraftys an additional skill point, you might want to just make this "spellcasting" skill Spellcraft. I have a friend who has played a cleric with Spell Points in a few campaigns. According to him, it really enhanced the game, allowing the cleric more freedom without unbalancing the game. I personally prefer an overall magic system that distinguishes between wizards, clerics, druids, and sorcerors, but I have yet to find/devise it.
Saurenda 10-06-04, 11:39 AM	I would like to proudly say I will not be forcing my players to look at a bunch of feats that I made or make them take disabilities or traits which enchance thier game play. A lot of Dms tend to confuse player in this fashion and it usually ends up with them being under the same DM all the time, but when it comes down to playing in another game with all this in thier heads it make character creation all the more confusing. Player I have already come up with a interesting Origin including backstory and such and I know what my character it good and bad at. Things can go wrong on bad skill checks, or worse yet from the enemies I have previously, or may make in the future. Dm I have everything I need to exploit the player, but because I want to prove that I am so intelligent and crafty I'm going to make up a bunch of stuff to confuse the players into believing whatever the hell I tell them. Forget all this planning, I'm making specific feats and skills boots geared towards what I wan the PCs to do and not do. Not to mention I automatically know more about thier origin than they do. Afterall it isn't about thier character creation as much as it is about my character manipulation. Who cares if they have to shift through dozens of pages I typed for no reason other than to please me. It's my game. It's usually that sort of DM attitude that makes me sick. Sure they are good ideas, but when all is said and done, they are worthless additions in the long run. Not to mention annoying to the players. the more the players become annoyed with your traits the more they will become annoyed at you, and if you want that It's your game. However I'm not going to convince someone thier first game, or rather a veteran thier first game with me to take some sort of feat, skill, or disability I made up one day while sitting on my butt. I pay people 30 bucks a suppliment to do that =D
GMSteve 10-06-04, 11:56 AM	For those of you who want to stay on-topic - please skip the following rant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RANT ON :rant: Guess I better go get my fireproof nomax on. Seriously - I have never had a problem with my players. I don't ram anything down their throat. They say hey, extra feat cool! I'll take it. I think it is pretty big assumption on your part that our players have not played with the Dm and do not know them. And to be honest, I have more problem with the bloddy supplements than my own feats. At least my own feats I know, and understand. And there is only like 10 or 11 background feats... Whereas I get sick as a DM of players shown up at my table and saying I want to play psionic wemic using the healer class from the new divine sourcebook. In my 20 years of DMing this has been the bigger problem, not the DM's house rule tweaks which are usually the result of player and GM interaction, but rather the player showing up with reams of supplements that the DM does not have and trying to put together an arugment why this variant or that variant should not be allowed. - :teach: Besides you should be ashamed of yourself - this post was clearly marked house rules - you don't like house rules, then don't use em, but don't waste bandwidth coming over into this thread and slandering those who do use em, with a multiparagraph attack on why they are bad. Way OFF TOPIC - not even close to be what the original poster wanted to say. If you think you need to convince people that house rules are bad - start your own bloody thread that says house rules suck, and stay out of this one. RANT OVER
stone_dog 10-06-04, 12:42 PM	Did I come across like that? Huh... thought I was more reasonable... Player I have already come up with a interesting Origin including backstory and such and I know what my character it good and bad at. Great! Let me give you a few things you wouldn't normally have to give you an extra edge along those lines. Dm I have everything I need to exploit the player, but because I want to prove that I am so intelligent and crafty I'm going to make up a bunch of stuff to confuse the players into believing whatever the hell I tell them. Exploit the player? What a horrible thing to say! Yes, I've been crossing my fingers for certain people to play certain things. The guy who always fiddles with any interesting magical thing in any game? I hope he'll take an artificer. One player usually plays elves and she is all ready to play an "Aztec Death Elf!" She know's they aren't exactly that, but whatever keeps a player excited... ;) One player always plays a rogue. I hope she takes a changeling because she really loves being all sneaky. However, I am NOT going to demand anything from them other than they try out a few new rules and see if they are fun. I do see though that the "surprise gestalting" thing might have been a bit misleading. That is why I started this thread after all. It sounded good in my head, but just passing out a certain number of bonus feats for character background might be less confusing to the players who never heard of that rule. Everybody can understand free feats though. Anyway, I just had a peek over at the thread before posting this and am glad to see GMSteve has my back on this. I have to get back to the real world for a while, but I'll be back for more feedback and sharing of ideas!
polt 10-06-04, 01:39 PM	Favored class: They are GONE! It works with every race, as it works with humans. Roll: You roll 4d6, 1īs is a reroll, switch two stats, a point for a point once, and then 2 for 1. You cant boost a ability over 18, unless its a racial bonus. Stats: In my game we also have "luck". When you roll stats you roll three rows. But Luck is only rolled ONCE, you cant switch the stat, you cant substract points from it, or give it points. Your action points is your luck modifier + level. Wizards: It take two rounds to cast a spell, one to prepare, and one to cast. And you don't get two spells every level. Everyone can make a skill of their choice a classskill when first creating their character.