How do I 'sell' Ebberon to my players?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do I 'sell' Ebberon to my players?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Delvesdeep
10-28-04, 12:15 AM I recently bought the setting with the intention of 'pinching' ideas for my existing homebrew world. As I began to read through the pages the idea of using the setting in it's entirely began to grow. I've only read the first few chapters up to this point (I believe the last thing I read was on possession) but so far I think 'trialling' the world would be interesting.

The problem came when I mentioned this to one of my players. He had a 2 minute look through the pages and said he would prefer a 'low-magic', Tolkienish type of world where few creatures are powerful or remarkable. He also feels (just as a side note) that their are too many rules in the 3rd Ed and combat takes forever and a day, a sediment which I can sympathize with....but I digress.

So my question is...

How do I best 'sell' Eberron to my 'old school' players?

How would a normal town and adventure differ from one found in any other world?

How do I get them excited and their characters motivated (with definite goals) in Eberron?

Delvesdeep:b:
SahinTC
10-28-04, 12:46 AM Sorry to say it, but if your player wants low-magic, Eberron might not be the choice for you.

HOWEVER

Just because Eberron is high-magic does not mean that it is high-powerful magic. Almost everyone in the big cities has a magic something-or-other to heat their stoves and homes and something to cool their homes down. This does not mean they are all wizards with access to great magics or artificers with access to legendary items. Your characters, regardless of their class, will still be viewed as extremely powerful if they wield a +1 weapon or cast a level 2 spell. The flavor of the world has changed... it's the Tolkeinesque world, only gone through an Industrial Revolution... and by Industrial, I mean Magical. People have started working with magic in order achieve menial daily tasks. People may have a torch that permanently glows with an Everlasting Torch spell, but that doesn't mean they'll whip out their flaming dagger or spellbooks if they get into a fight, it just means that some magically-skilled Houses decided it would be good business selling lanterns that never die out.

Think our Industrial Revolution period, only instead of technology evolving (us learning how to better use the laws of physics), magic evolves (us learning how to better defy the laws of physics), both as means to the same end:
I can use a telephone to call my friend in yonder country, or I can go down to the local House Orien Courier's guild, give them a message, and have them magically send a message to any other Courier's Guild to find anyone else.

If your characters won't take to a more modernized world, chances are Eberron isn't going to work, however, if you want to sell them on the above idea, it's worth a shot.
Delvesdeep
10-28-04, 02:32 AM I enjoy your reasoning and simple explanation. Thankyou it was very clever. :)

Throughout the text in mentions a different feel. How would I illustrate this to the players if I was to give them a brief 'sampler' game? Where should I set it (Sharn?)? What sort of adventures should I create/use?

Basically, in as the shortest period possible, what element s of the world should I introduce in the first session to 'hook' the players?

Delvesdeep:b:
Beleriphon
10-28-04, 06:15 AM Basically, in as the shortest period possible, what element s of the world should I introduce in the first session to 'hook' the players?

Delvesdeep:b:

Try the adventure in the back of the book. Its simple, to the point, and it introduces intrigue and the fact that the world has been around for a long time. On top of that its fun. If you want to introduce some other elements to your players you may want to go for the pulp feel, lots of action, quick transitions to different places, make use of the lightning rail for this. And the intrique is great since you spin huge webs for the players to follow, the more loose ends at the end of an adventure the more likely they are to want to come back an solve those loose ends.
My Lego
10-28-04, 06:46 AM The problem came when I mentioned this to one of my players. He had a 2 minute look through the pages and said he would prefer a 'low-magic', Tolkienish type of world where few creatures are powerful or remarkable. He also feels (just as a side note) that their are too many rules in the 3rd Ed and combat takes forever and a day, a sediment which I can sympathize with....but I digress.

If your player wants to play in a 'low-magic' setting with few powerful creatures you should maybe consider playing another system then D&D all together. This might be a tough call but the fact is, he doesn't sound like he wants to play a High heroic fantasy system at all and there are other really good systems out there that will suit his tast a lot better. ( Say the Riddle of steel etc.).
Eriedm
10-28-04, 07:03 AM Qoute:Try the adventure in the back of the book. Its simple, to the point, and it introduces intrigue and the fact that the world has been around for a long time. On top of that its fun.
Thats what I'd recomend as well. Just ask your players to try the Forgotten Forge and Shadows of the Last War and see if that doesn't hook them on Eberron. :D
Wil_Hyral
10-28-04, 11:02 AM If your player wants to play in a 'low-magic' setting with few powerful creatures you should maybe consider playing another system then D&D all together. This might be a tough call but the fact is, he doesn't sound like he wants to play a High heroic fantasy system at all and there are other really good systems out there that will suit his tast a lot better. ( Say the Riddle of steel etc.).
Seriously. Lord of the Rings and Eberron are like this: | |
If he wants a Tolkien-esque world, Eberron can't reflect it that well. Parts of it can, but eventually those lightning trains are going to add more ports, etcetera.
If you want to sell him, TRY to sell him on the Indiana Jones theme. Pulp action, high cinematics, crescendos that make your palms wet.. sell him on that. That's Eberron's trump card.

And remind him that there are no guns. I, for the longest time, resisted buying Eberron because I read somewhere that there are guns.
Reaver
10-28-04, 11:04 AM Actually I'm playing ebberon low magic, i actually think it fits that very well. As long as there arent any magic users in the party.

Its quit simle really, every day magic is everywhere, everbright lanterns and that sort of thing, but there menial magic, quite simply put, everything higher than that is incredibly rare. Think of it this way, in the game i run, the houses have nigh a monopoly on magic higher than one level of magewright, the only other people that have it are people like the blood of vol and the emerald claw. Basically menial magic is readily accessable, but that doesnt mean flaming daggers, and +3 weapons. it means you can buy lanterns that wont go out, masterwork items are slightly easier to come buy, as are hardened and keen items. I have magic severaly limited, my players are level 5, nealy level 6, and they havent a single magic item other than the napsack that elaydren d'cannith gives you at the beggining of the second adventure. Anyway, just my opinion.
midniteprism
10-28-04, 11:36 AM Think of many of the solid pulp action films and sci-fi fantasy books or films of that liking. Mixures of Indiana Jones and The Lord of the Rings. High action drama w/ a mix of dark fantasy is always something to whet the pallete of any gamer. Granted there are those out there who thurst for their gaming to be a bit darker and thats ok. I believe the tone of Eberon IS fairly dark, but you don't want to miss those great moments to build memorable characters inside that darkness. Even the darkest films have interesting characters. I like to try and show films like Dark City, followed by The Lord of the Rings, than ending off w/ either of the Indiana Jones films (Temple of Doom seems to capture that overall feeling the best though). Many of my friends are into the Final Fantasy games as well, and the aspect of meanial magic that floats about the land aiding in everyday tasks kinda adds a bit of Final Fantasy-esque vibes to the game that my players like. And those games have a real nack for being beautiful and lighthearted at first than mix tones of love, spirituality, and other very heavy issues all at the same time. But ultimately try to make the transition as unnoticable as possible. Don't just plot the whole world on your players in one shot. Gradually implement new ideas, and plot lines and characters and 'technology' to them. Over time, I think most players will go along w/ it, cause they are pretty hip to what you are doing. And if done well, they will appreciate the freshness, yet familierity, of this setting.
debatedeus
10-28-04, 12:01 PM So people got a little OT. Here's what I have for answers to your original questions.

How do I best 'sell' Eberron to my 'old school' players?
This depends on how adventurous your group is. I know a friend who was ****** that in 3.0 Rangers didn't have to be good. He would say to me, "But a ranger is supposed to be good, because that's the way it was in 2nd edition!" If you have people in your party like this, things are going to be more complicated.

There is a saying, "Same same, but different." This is Eberron. You have elves, you have goblins, you have dragons, but you have different twists on these. These twists are what Eberron has to add to your DnD game, and ultimately how you'll best be able to sell it to your players.

For example, elves in Eberron are the pacifist, detached nature lovers you've seen elsewhere. They are the people who threw off the yoke of slavery to the Giants, the first common race to elevate itself with the study of the Arcane Arts. Some worship their living dead, preserving them through Divine Rituals their dedication to them. Others are kinda like Klingons, lusting for battle, honor, and the noble aim of reliving the glorious lives of the ancient elven heroes who liberated the race from the giants of Xen'drik. They have held their own against the Dragons of Argossen in not one, but several conflicts!

Another thing you can sell to them is the integration the world offers--this is part of the "same same" bit in my saying above. Anything that is in DnD has a logical place in Eberron. For example, the Tarrasque is worshipped by the Sahugin (sp) and is sleeping under the ocean between Khorvaire and Xen'drik.

I'll answer the others later when I have more time.
Delvesdeep
10-28-04, 06:57 PM Thankyou once again everyone for your suggestions.:)

My group began playing using the original D&D boxed set so have seen many changes. To be honest most of the changes have been inflicted on them by me (the DM). Otherwise we would most likely still be playing first or second ed quite happily. Slowly but surely has always been the answer, introducing things to read, discuss etc before we even use a new world, book, edition.

I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct?

The other idea that keeps coming through is to use more an Indiana Jones type of adventure game. Any suggestions?

I haven't read the adventure at the back of the book yet. Where is it set?

Delvesdeep:b:
Korhal IV
10-28-04, 08:32 PM I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct?

The other idea that keeps coming through is to use more an Indiana Jones type of adventure game. Any suggestions?

I haven't read the adventure at the back of the book yet. Where is it set?

1) Nope. But then, my players are ok with change.
2) Uhm. More of an artifact hunt, with major NPCs that don't have blatantly good or bad alignments. That's about it from me.
3) In Sharn. It's a decent intro adventure.
superdeadsmurf
10-28-04, 08:51 PM Thankyou once again everyone for your suggestions.:)

My group began playing using the original D&D boxed set so have seen many changes. To be honest most of the changes have been inflicted on them by me (the DM). Otherwise we would most likely still be playing first or second ed quite happily. Slowly but surely has always been the answer, introducing things to read, discuss etc before we even use a new world, book, edition.

I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct?

The other idea that keeps coming through is to use more an Indiana Jones type of adventure game. Any suggestions?

I haven't read the adventure at the back of the book yet. Where is it set?

Delvesdeep:b:

The Adventure ("The Forgotten Forge") is set in Sharn and has the PCs going from the High level towers down into the low level towers and sewers of the City searching for an acient relic.
debatedeus
10-28-04, 09:34 PM [b]I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct?

Yes. That's one reason why Forgotten Forge is nice. It gives you a little bit of the new and different twists of Eberron, but it does it at a nice even keel, giving the DM and players time to adapt to the new subjective reality of Eberron.
Delvesdeep
10-29-04, 12:48 AM Yes. That's one reason why Forgotten Forge is nice. It gives you a little bit of the new and different twists of Eberron, but it does it at a nice even keel, giving the DM and players time to adapt to the new subjective reality of Eberron.

Is the module expensive (remember I'm Australian so double the price of anything from WotC:() and is it from 1st level?

Should I begin the campaign in the more wilder regions of Eberron where the 'technology/magic' is less obvious or throw them straight into Sharn? What location will not scare them away but still give them the Eberron 'feel'?

Should all the players start using the new races and/or classes offered or should they use existing races/classes? Is the Warforged easy to roleplay or are they little more than bashing automatons?

Delvesdeep:b:
Beleriphon
10-29-04, 07:21 AM Is the module expensive (remember I'm Australian so double the price of anything from WotC:() and is it from 1st level?

Well if you have the main Eberron book the adventure is free, seeing as how its printed in the back of the book! ;)

Oh I think Sharn would work nicely, if you think about what Sharn is, its not all that dissimilar to Minas Tirith. I'd present it as such to new players, or at least describe each massive tower as being much like Minas Tirith.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Delvesdeep 10-28-04, 12:15 AM	I recently bought the setting with the intention of 'pinching' ideas for my existing homebrew world. As I began to read through the pages the idea of using the setting in it's entirely began to grow. I've only read the first few chapters up to this point (I believe the last thing I read was on possession) but so far I think 'trialling' the world would be interesting. The problem came when I mentioned this to one of my players. He had a 2 minute look through the pages and said he would prefer a 'low-magic', Tolkienish type of world where few creatures are powerful or remarkable. He also feels (just as a side note) that their are too many rules in the 3rd Ed and combat takes forever and a day, a sediment which I can sympathize with....but I digress. So my question is... How do I best 'sell' Eberron to my 'old school' players? How would a normal town and adventure differ from one found in any other world? How do I get them excited and their characters motivated (with definite goals) in Eberron? Delvesdeep:b:
SahinTC 10-28-04, 12:46 AM	Sorry to say it, but if your player wants low-magic, Eberron might not be the choice for you. HOWEVER Just because Eberron is high-magic does not mean that it is high-powerful magic. Almost everyone in the big cities has a magic something-or-other to heat their stoves and homes and something to cool their homes down. This does not mean they are all wizards with access to great magics or artificers with access to legendary items. Your characters, regardless of their class, will still be viewed as extremely powerful if they wield a +1 weapon or cast a level 2 spell. The flavor of the world has changed... it's the Tolkeinesque world, only gone through an Industrial Revolution... and by Industrial, I mean Magical. People have started working with magic in order achieve menial daily tasks. People may have a torch that permanently glows with an Everlasting Torch spell, but that doesn't mean they'll whip out their flaming dagger or spellbooks if they get into a fight, it just means that some magically-skilled Houses decided it would be good business selling lanterns that never die out. Think our Industrial Revolution period, only instead of technology evolving (us learning how to better use the laws of physics), magic evolves (us learning how to better defy the laws of physics), both as means to the same end: I can use a telephone to call my friend in yonder country, or I can go down to the local House Orien Courier's guild, give them a message, and have them magically send a message to any other Courier's Guild to find anyone else. If your characters won't take to a more modernized world, chances are Eberron isn't going to work, however, if you want to sell them on the above idea, it's worth a shot.
Delvesdeep 10-28-04, 02:32 AM	I enjoy your reasoning and simple explanation. Thankyou it was very clever. :) Throughout the text in mentions a different feel. How would I illustrate this to the players if I was to give them a brief 'sampler' game? Where should I set it (Sharn?)? What sort of adventures should I create/use? Basically, in as the shortest period possible, what element s of the world should I introduce in the first session to 'hook' the players? Delvesdeep:b:
Beleriphon 10-28-04, 06:15 AM	Basically, in as the shortest period possible, what element s of the world should I introduce in the first session to 'hook' the players? Delvesdeep:b: Try the adventure in the back of the book. Its simple, to the point, and it introduces intrigue and the fact that the world has been around for a long time. On top of that its fun. If you want to introduce some other elements to your players you may want to go for the pulp feel, lots of action, quick transitions to different places, make use of the lightning rail for this. And the intrique is great since you spin huge webs for the players to follow, the more loose ends at the end of an adventure the more likely they are to want to come back an solve those loose ends.
My Lego 10-28-04, 06:46 AM	The problem came when I mentioned this to one of my players. He had a 2 minute look through the pages and said he would prefer a 'low-magic', Tolkienish type of world where few creatures are powerful or remarkable. He also feels (just as a side note) that their are too many rules in the 3rd Ed and combat takes forever and a day, a sediment which I can sympathize with....but I digress. If your player wants to play in a 'low-magic' setting with few powerful creatures you should maybe consider playing another system then D&D all together. This might be a tough call but the fact is, he doesn't sound like he wants to play a High heroic fantasy system at all and there are other really good systems out there that will suit his tast a lot better. ( Say the Riddle of steel etc.).
Eriedm 10-28-04, 07:03 AM	Qoute:Try the adventure in the back of the book. Its simple, to the point, and it introduces intrigue and the fact that the world has been around for a long time. On top of that its fun. Thats what I'd recomend as well. Just ask your players to try the Forgotten Forge and Shadows of the Last War and see if that doesn't hook them on Eberron. :D
Wil_Hyral 10-28-04, 11:02 AM	If your player wants to play in a 'low-magic' setting with few powerful creatures you should maybe consider playing another system then D&D all together. This might be a tough call but the fact is, he doesn't sound like he wants to play a High heroic fantasy system at all and there are other really good systems out there that will suit his tast a lot better. ( Say the Riddle of steel etc.). Seriously. Lord of the Rings and Eberron are like this: \| \| If he wants a Tolkien-esque world, Eberron can't reflect it that well. Parts of it can, but eventually those lightning trains are going to add more ports, etcetera. If you want to sell him, TRY to sell him on the Indiana Jones theme. Pulp action, high cinematics, crescendos that make your palms wet.. sell him on that. That's Eberron's trump card. And remind him that there are no guns. I, for the longest time, resisted buying Eberron because I read somewhere that there are guns.
Reaver 10-28-04, 11:04 AM	Actually I'm playing ebberon low magic, i actually think it fits that very well. As long as there arent any magic users in the party. Its quit simle really, every day magic is everywhere, everbright lanterns and that sort of thing, but there menial magic, quite simply put, everything higher than that is incredibly rare. Think of it this way, in the game i run, the houses have nigh a monopoly on magic higher than one level of magewright, the only other people that have it are people like the blood of vol and the emerald claw. Basically menial magic is readily accessable, but that doesnt mean flaming daggers, and +3 weapons. it means you can buy lanterns that wont go out, masterwork items are slightly easier to come buy, as are hardened and keen items. I have magic severaly limited, my players are level 5, nealy level 6, and they havent a single magic item other than the napsack that elaydren d'cannith gives you at the beggining of the second adventure. Anyway, just my opinion.
midniteprism 10-28-04, 11:36 AM	Think of many of the solid pulp action films and sci-fi fantasy books or films of that liking. Mixures of Indiana Jones and The Lord of the Rings. High action drama w/ a mix of dark fantasy is always something to whet the pallete of any gamer. Granted there are those out there who thurst for their gaming to be a bit darker and thats ok. I believe the tone of Eberon IS fairly dark, but you don't want to miss those great moments to build memorable characters inside that darkness. Even the darkest films have interesting characters. I like to try and show films like Dark City, followed by The Lord of the Rings, than ending off w/ either of the Indiana Jones films (Temple of Doom seems to capture that overall feeling the best though). Many of my friends are into the Final Fantasy games as well, and the aspect of meanial magic that floats about the land aiding in everyday tasks kinda adds a bit of Final Fantasy-esque vibes to the game that my players like. And those games have a real nack for being beautiful and lighthearted at first than mix tones of love, spirituality, and other very heavy issues all at the same time. But ultimately try to make the transition as unnoticable as possible. Don't just plot the whole world on your players in one shot. Gradually implement new ideas, and plot lines and characters and 'technology' to them. Over time, I think most players will go along w/ it, cause they are pretty hip to what you are doing. And if done well, they will appreciate the freshness, yet familierity, of this setting.
debatedeus 10-28-04, 12:01 PM	So people got a little OT. Here's what I have for answers to your original questions. How do I best 'sell' Eberron to my 'old school' players? This depends on how adventurous your group is. I know a friend who was ****** that in 3.0 Rangers didn't have to be good. He would say to me, "But a ranger is supposed to be good, because that's the way it was in 2nd edition!" If you have people in your party like this, things are going to be more complicated. There is a saying, "Same same, but different." This is Eberron. You have elves, you have goblins, you have dragons, but you have different twists on these. These twists are what Eberron has to add to your DnD game, and ultimately how you'll best be able to sell it to your players. For example, elves in Eberron are the pacifist, detached nature lovers you've seen elsewhere. They are the people who threw off the yoke of slavery to the Giants, the first common race to elevate itself with the study of the Arcane Arts. Some worship their living dead, preserving them through Divine Rituals their dedication to them. Others are kinda like Klingons, lusting for battle, honor, and the noble aim of reliving the glorious lives of the ancient elven heroes who liberated the race from the giants of Xen'drik. They have held their own against the Dragons of Argossen in not one, but several conflicts! Another thing you can sell to them is the integration the world offers--this is part of the "same same" bit in my saying above. Anything that is in DnD has a logical place in Eberron. For example, the Tarrasque is worshipped by the Sahugin (sp) and is sleeping under the ocean between Khorvaire and Xen'drik. I'll answer the others later when I have more time.
Delvesdeep 10-28-04, 06:57 PM	Thankyou once again everyone for your suggestions.:) My group began playing using the original D&D boxed set so have seen many changes. To be honest most of the changes have been inflicted on them by me (the DM). Otherwise we would most likely still be playing first or second ed quite happily. Slowly but surely has always been the answer, introducing things to read, discuss etc before we even use a new world, book, edition. I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct? The other idea that keeps coming through is to use more an Indiana Jones type of adventure game. Any suggestions? I haven't read the adventure at the back of the book yet. Where is it set? Delvesdeep:b:
Korhal IV 10-28-04, 08:32 PM	I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct? The other idea that keeps coming through is to use more an Indiana Jones type of adventure game. Any suggestions? I haven't read the adventure at the back of the book yet. Where is it set? 1) Nope. But then, my players are ok with change. 2) Uhm. More of an artifact hunt, with major NPCs that don't have blatantly good or bad alignments. That's about it from me. 3) In Sharn. It's a decent intro adventure.
superdeadsmurf 10-28-04, 08:51 PM	Thankyou once again everyone for your suggestions.:) My group began playing using the original D&D boxed set so have seen many changes. To be honest most of the changes have been inflicted on them by me (the DM). Otherwise we would most likely still be playing first or second ed quite happily. Slowly but surely has always been the answer, introducing things to read, discuss etc before we even use a new world, book, edition. I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct? The other idea that keeps coming through is to use more an Indiana Jones type of adventure game. Any suggestions? I haven't read the adventure at the back of the book yet. Where is it set? Delvesdeep:b: The Adventure ("The Forgotten Forge") is set in Sharn and has the PCs going from the High level towers down into the low level towers and sewers of the City searching for an acient relic.
debatedeus 10-28-04, 09:34 PM	[b]I'm getting the impression from the majority of you to implement the Eberron 'differences' slowly. Is this correct? Yes. That's one reason why Forgotten Forge is nice. It gives you a little bit of the new and different twists of Eberron, but it does it at a nice even keel, giving the DM and players time to adapt to the new subjective reality of Eberron.
Delvesdeep 10-29-04, 12:48 AM	Yes. That's one reason why Forgotten Forge is nice. It gives you a little bit of the new and different twists of Eberron, but it does it at a nice even keel, giving the DM and players time to adapt to the new subjective reality of Eberron. Is the module expensive (remember I'm Australian so double the price of anything from WotC:() and is it from 1st level? Should I begin the campaign in the more wilder regions of Eberron where the 'technology/magic' is less obvious or throw them straight into Sharn? What location will not scare them away but still give them the Eberron 'feel'? Should all the players start using the new races and/or classes offered or should they use existing races/classes? Is the Warforged easy to roleplay or are they little more than bashing automatons? Delvesdeep:b:
Beleriphon 10-29-04, 07:21 AM	Is the module expensive (remember I'm Australian so double the price of anything from WotC:() and is it from 1st level? Well if you have the main Eberron book the adventure is free, seeing as how its printed in the back of the book! ;) Oh I think Sharn would work nicely, if you think about what Sharn is, its not all that dissimilar to Minas Tirith. I'd present it as such to new players, or at least describe each massive tower as being much like Minas Tirith.