Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kravell 07-07-04, 01:07 PM	I'm running into a problem in my Eberron campaign. The heroes are based out of Newthrone, New Galifar in Q'barra. I'm generating NPCs for the city. My problem is that even the lowest level NPC on the table (say aristocrat level 10) is much more powerful than the NPCs in the campaign setting (King Sebastes is an aristocrat 4/ranger 1). Khalar d’Thrarashk (NE human expert 2/rogue 4/dragonmark heir 2) is at least close to a rogue level 10. On average, though, a high level rogue in Newthrone would be 13th level. I'm wondering if all of the community modifiers need to be lowered for an Eberron campaign. I'm considering using +1 for a large town, +2 for a small city, +3 for a large city, and +4 for a metropolis. Any thoughts/suggestions?
Dauntless 07-07-04, 01:31 PM	Not only should they be lowered, but the higher level NPCs would mostly be NPC classes.
Kravell 07-07-04, 03:54 PM	Glad you mentioned that, Dauntless. I'm going to use +3 for a large town, +4 for a small city, +5 for a large city, and +6 for a metropolis. And, using Dauntless' suggestion, I'm going to have around half of the NPCs take around half their levels in an NPC class. So a 10th level fighter might be a 5th warrior/5th fighter who got the 5 fighter levels after a battlefield promotion. Many wizards will have started out as magewrights. Etc. I'd like to see how Keith thinks NPC generation should be handled in a city.
Saurenda 07-07-04, 03:58 PM	To be honest, most of that will apply to mage wrights, artificers, and blacksmiths and such. You will almost never find in a metrolpolis a 1d4+6 wizard unless they are a specialist who does not craft items themselves. It is more likely to find in Sharn's Towers, a house cannith forge with a level 1d4+6 Artificer someone who has the experience of somone runnign through all the time. However this of course does not influence villians and the like who pass through. You could have a 1d4+6 Detective (Expert) in Sharn who's reputation rivials on the level of say one Sherlock Homes. Typical places to find such high level NPCs to me means this, 'location'. People in Eberron become powerful because they stay within thier realms, they don't crap themselves too thin like in FR Campgains. No running around from country to country with magic, staying in Breland for four levels could mean your heroism and fame could make Breland a safer place to live. You gain fame easier by staying in one place. Your a local hero, that means more in this world than being a scattered legend everyone wispers about. You directly affect your home, that in itself is enough. Thus NPCs will be allowed to prosper at half or less the rate of the players. They benefit or suffer from your actions after all. You can adjust the system in the DMG 3.5 if you want, but personally it seems like a good starting place to me for things to go bad or good determined on the performace of the players.
Sancus 07-07-04, 04:40 PM	You'd think they would have included an official method in the Campaign Setting given that the lower level NPCs is one of the 'selling points' of Eberron.
Kravell 07-07-04, 08:58 PM	Well now I have Dungeon 113 and I see Sharn's lord mayor is a 16th level aristocrat. He's higher level than the king himself. So now I'm confused. 16th level seems really high for a mayor. I'm just going to eyeball stuff I think. Whatever the king's level is and the few NPCs listed will give me a range to set other NPCs at.
Aervyper Venom 07-07-04, 11:25 PM	I think everyone's problem is that they assume one person is low in power that he's weak. Here's a good example actually an excellent one. Watch the Last Samuria. The Emporer is a wuss like probably a level 2 weakling and yet the people around him are powerful. And in the end of that movie a level 2 weakling beats both of his advisors weather it was his intention or not. I think alot of this misconception of power comes directly from movies (james bond ones especially). All the people in power are high levels and all those that guard them are also higher levels. It's just not the same here. I'm playing a senario with 2 level 9 characters. I've pretty much told the wizard that he's probably in the top 1% of human spell casters ATM. It doesn't mean he's gonna rule Breland tommorrow. It just means that he's a high level one of the few that survived the last war.
Hellcow 07-08-04, 02:53 AM	Expect to see demographics addressed soon.
nate 07-08-04, 01:34 PM	One thing to keep in mind is that, if you're looking at it from a sheer power perspective, a 16 lvl aristo (CR 8) is roughly equivalent to a 8th lvl fighter (CR 8). That's not an entirely satisfying answer, though, because levels are levels, and (as others have noted) stuff like hit points and base attack bonus scale up roughly equally for PC and NPC classes. There may well be a good explanation, and I hope that Keith provides one, but the fact that there isn't one in the ECSB itself is a glaring omission in the book. And like other omissions in an otherwise impressive work (for example, the lack of a good map), I hope it's addressed not only in the message boards or in some Dragon magazine article, but in the form of web enhancements or the like, so that everybody can have access to them.
Sancus 07-08-04, 06:37 PM	a 16 lvl aristo (CR 8) is roughly equivalent to a 8th lvl fighter (CR 8). True, however, a level 16 aristocrat is far superior to the fighter in leadership, political intrigue and non-combat stuff, due to his much higher skill modifiers.